Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

Flippyfloppy

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I think that what's wilfully ignorant is to continue speculating slanderously about an uninvestigated tragedy, when its clear that this speculation would be distressing for any surviving family members. Why do you think the mainstream media are taking a softly softly approach?

'

What speculation? This whole thread has been I Heart Internet and you posting thinly veiled rcc can do no wrong comments.

Aside from that, these kids families may not know what happened to them. I would imagine they want justice. Which is what this 'speculation' (look up defintion) will hopefully bring about. These children are not alone anymore. They will have people to fight for them. These nuns will not be able to remain silent and shun their victims just like they have with the Magdelene ladies, or people they seperated from their mothers/children.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Not speculating. Concerned. I can just try to put myself in their shoes (its called having empathy). I think that if I had given birth 50 years ago to a baby which I was later told had died, then I would have preferred to imagine that that baby had been given a decent funeral, had died of natural causes, was lying peacefully. I would be distraught if I became aware that people who knew less about it then I were alleging murder , negligence, cruelty etc. That's all.

Meanwhile, other people would fight for justice. Not pretend. Pretending doesn't improve the world.

Spring Onion

iguana wrote: »

Here you go;

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/

Can people who sign it also share it through their social networks. It's picking up momentum now (nearly 400) and the faster it's shared the more signatures it will get.

Petition at 600 already. Well done Iquana.

iguana

iguana wrote: »

Ok, here's the petition. Please share it on Facebook (and even Google Plus) urging as many signatures as possible. I've set it with a current goal of 2,000 signatures but ideally would like to increase that.

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/

Shared on Facebook, Twitter and a comment in the article on the Journal.ie. Should it be in the first post of this thread? It's a bit hidden.

Czarcasm

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Meanwhile, other people would fight for justice. Not pretend. Pretending doesn't improve the world.

Ironically Ff, pretending the most vulnerable members of society didn't exist, improved other peoples world immensely.

Out of sight, out of mind.

efb

@HisEmineminence: Like having Jackie O counselled by a sniper. “@IrishTimes: New Catholic support service for abused launched in Knock http://t.co/uHhTPQVpuh”

Lingua Franca

Also shared on facebook, and under the status of an American friend who'd linked the Washington Post article about this.

Flippyfloppy

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ironically Ff, pretending the most vulnerable members of society didn't exist, improved other peoples world immensely.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Not that that still doesn't go on today, but that's for another thread...

asteroids over berlin

completely nuts - obviously medical facilities/meds back then were limited and indeed disease(s) spread, however, their is a serious case of neglect and social exclusion towards single parents, more so mothers.

Call for "the removal of the cesspool at the back of the Children's Home" "smell intolerable" (CT, 23/01/1937) #Tuam

PIC:
http://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104/photo/1

Original Twitter status: https://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104

Jesus how long did the people running this home carry out this horrifying practice!?

bumper234

Sacramento wrote: »

PIC:
http://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104/photo/1

Original Twitter status: https://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104

Jesus how long did the people running this home carry out this horrifying practice!?

Well if you were to say on average 50 a year (a horrible amount of children to die) then you are looking at 16 years of systematic dumping of children's bodies into a cess pit. Now some may say "oh the average was 100 a year so it was only 8 years" but then is 100 dead children dumped in a cess pit for 8 years any betted?

TheChizler

Sacramento wrote: »

PIC:
http://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104/photo/1

Original Twitter status: https://twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/473726108664623104

Jesus how long did the people running this home carry out this horrifying practice!?

Was this actually the tank in question or a different, public one? Cause I want to make sure my new anger is justified.

Flippyfloppy

TheChizler wrote: »

Was this actually the tank in question or a different, public one? Cause I want to make sure my new anger is justified.

Seems to me that an actual sewerage system was called for, implying it is not the grave in question.

Zubeneschamali

Czarcasm wrote: »

The Gardaí at the time Zub colluded with the nuns, as did the DPP, and the Government, and the civil servants of the State, and even the families of these women and children themselves supported the workhouses and laundries, so they were hardly going to have a word said against them!

Yes, I am agreeing with you that the state and the public were wrong.

But the state and the public did not chuck these 800 children's corpses into an unmarked pit. The Bons Secours nuns did that.

Zubeneschamali

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I think that what's wilfully ignorant is to continue speculating slanderously

800 babies and young children die in Church care and are chucked in an unmarked hole, and you are worried about someone slandering the good name of the Nuns?

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

A judgement of "murder" is handed down by a duly constituted Court of Law and not by a Galway historian, no matter how well-intentioned (s)he is and regardless of how accurate (s)he is believed to be now, and subsequently turns out to be.

I have not accused anyone of committing murder. I do not know any of the possible suspects. And you can talk about a murder being committed before anyone is found in a court of law to be guilty of said crime.

Bellatori

Firstly I want to take issue with the gross exaggeration going on. The BBC clearly report that merely "The bodies of 796 babies, toddlers and children were buried in unmarked graves in Tuam"

Secondly, whilst "Campaigners now hope to erect a sculpture and put plaques with all the children's names along the eight foot wall at the site." we now know that "it is understood that the Bon Secours Sisters, who ran the home for unmarried mothers, have donated some money to the memorial fund."

Well you can't say fairer than that AND some people "met with the Archbishop of Tuam, Dr Michael Neary, to discuss holding a memorial service for those who died."

As far as I am concerned, that draws a line under the whole thing.

Yours sincerely
Pope Franny.

shruikan2553

Bellatori wrote: »

Firstly I want to take issue with the gross exaggeration going on. The BBC clearly report that merely "The bodies of 796 babies, toddlers and children were buried in unmarked graves in Tuam"

Secondly, whilst "Campaigners now hope to erect a sculpture and put plaques with all the children's names along the eight foot wall at the site." we now know that "it is understood that the Bon Secours Sisters, who ran the home for unmarried mothers, have donated some money to the memorial fund."

Well you can't say fairer than that AND some people "met with the Archbishop of Tuam, Dr Michael Neary, to discuss holding a memorial service for those who died."

As far as I am concerned, that draws a line under the whole thing.

Yours sincerely
Pope Franny.

Some????? Sweet Science. Im not sure if I should be annoyed, the fact the dont fund the entire thing considering it was them that put them there although the fact they are doing something instead of completely ignoring it is a miracle in itself.

Bellatori

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Some????? Sweet Science. Im not sure if I should be annoyed, the fact the dont fund the entire thing considering it was them that put them there although the fact they are doing something instead of completely ignoring it is a miracle in itself.

I'm a bit concerned that you might have missed the irony and sarcasm here...

shruikan2553

Bellatori wrote: »

I'm a bit concerned that you might have missed the irony and sarcasm here...

Oh I see the sarcasm in the post but the article is real and mentions it too.

SpaceTime

This needs to be investigated forensically!

Putting up a monument is a different issue entirely.

krankykitty

Thanks for setting up the petition Iguana. I've shared it with multiple groups on Facebook where we had been discussing the issue

groovyg

I'm not sure whether this is more suited to the accomodation/banking forum, but there is always somebody who will compare the RCC to the banks

What a horrendous article, written by somebody who supposedly works in PR:rolleyes:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/06/03/shaming-in-the-years/

shruikan2553

Its looking like 2k might have been a small number to go for! 1.3k now

Lingua Franca

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Once again i do not now how where when or why the bodies arrived in the mass grave.
If a crime has been committed I do not know who colluded in this crime, who withheld information who was involved in a cover up. If a cover up ever happened.
You have no answers to any of these questions either.
So any assumptions are wild speculation.
Really, its not rocket science.

Wild speculation? Really? 796 children died, malnutrition and maltreatment was documented, skeletons have been found, not one person has come forward and said "Oh, they're in this graveyard, here's the evidence" but making the logical leap that the nuns dumped the bodies is wild speculation?

I suppose the septic tank could have come prepacked with skeletons. Or that a prolific serial killer used the septic tank as a dumping ground for his victims and went entirely undetected. Or a local undertaker offered to take the bodies for burial and then snuck them out the back and dumped them and the nuns simply forgot to attend the funerals.

Have a go at wild speculation yourself and see if you can come up with a better reason for a septic tank to be stuffed full of skeletons in a place where 796 children died.

If a crime has been committed

The illegal disposal of bodies is a crime.

Czarcasm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, I am agreeing with you that the state and the public were wrong.

But the state and the public did not chuck these 800 children's corpses into an unmarked pit. The Bons Secours nuns did that.

Well at least you recognize that it was a mere handful of people who actually committed these atrocities as opposed to some posters who would hold the whole of the RCC responsible for the actions of a disproportionate minority of it's members.

It's been pointed out here previously that there has been no mention of these atrocities in the Christianity forum, but in all honesty, seriously, it wouldn't take the geniuses here to figure out that nobody would want to be associated with the actions of these religious orders, because they aren't representative of the majority of people who identify themselves as Christian, let alone Roman Catholic.

For anyone to use this tragedy as representative of the RCC is just low IMO.

efb

@philipboucherhayes View in some legal circles that there could be indictable offences in #tuambabies case.
Travelling to Tuam for tomorrow's #DrivetimeRTE

iguana

Thanks to everyone who signed and shared the petition. I have now updated the target to 10,000 as at this rate, the original target should be exceeded in the next couple of hours. Tomorrow, once it's 24 hours old, it's time to start sending it to Fitzgerald's office and our local TDs outlining just how quickly so many people have signed. Hopefully the show of national and international support for an investigation will play a part in making it happen.

Flippyfloppy

iguana wrote: »

Thanks to everyone who signed and shared the petition. I have now updated the target to 10,000 as at this rate, the original target should be exceeded in the next couple of hours. Tomorrow, once it's 24 hours old, it's time to start sending it to Fitzgerald's office and our local TDs outlining just how quickly so many people have signed. Hopefully the show of national and international support for an investigation will play a part in making it happen.

Fair play Iguana

Lisha

Thanks Iguana, it's great to see the numbers growing. Have tweeted it

Flippyfloppy

Lisha wrote: »

Thanks Iguana, it's great to see the numbers growing. Have tweeted it

Should we tweet with #tuambabies?