Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

BlinkingLights

You can be sure they'll have lost all the records.

recedite

Tuam Archibishop horrified by this discovery.

The Archbishop said in a statement that he was “horrified and saddened” to hear of the large number of deceased children involved

He must have been living under a rock the last few years. Locals seem to have been fairly aware of the situation for a long time, and even this thread has been going since 2014.

Its looking like the politicians will now call for the bones to be removed from where they are now, and re-interred in a different hole somewhere else.
No doubt the Archbishop will be right there when it happens, at centre stage, saying a few holy words, with the politicians lined up on each side of him.

The whole charade will defuse public anger and distract from the real issue of why these kids died of neglect and malnutrition while the state and private individuals were paying the nuns for the board and lodging, and while the mothers were in there being used as virtual slave labour.

Bristolscale7

recedite wrote: »

Tuam Archibishop horrified by this discovery.

He must have been living under a rock the last few years. Locals seem to have been fairly aware of the situation for a long time, and even this thread has been going since 2014.

Its looking like the politicians will now call for the bones to be removed from where they are now, and re-interred in a different hole somewhere else.
No doubt the Archbishop will be right there when it happens, at centre stage, saying a few holy words, with the politicians lined up on each side of him.

The whole charade will defuse public anger and distract from the real issue of why these kids died of neglect and malnutrition while the state and private individuals were paying the nuns for the board and lodging, and while the mothers were in there being used as virtual slave labour.

Joe Duffy's next book project...

robindch

recedite wrote: »

Tuam Archibishop horrified by this discovery.

He must have been living under a rock the last few years. Locals seem to have been fairly aware of the situation for a long time, and even this thread has been going since 2014.

The linked article is from June 2014.

Cabaal

Didn't see the point in outrage and hate so I'm trying to make people think about their link to the catholic church, so I posted this.

Sit down for a moment and think about this,

Imagine you wanted your child to join a sports club and that sports club had almost a century of behavior in relation to abuse and victim silencing, would you want your child to join that club?

But if the club had since apologized for this behavior but at the same time this sports club refused to co-operate with investigations into these abuses, would you want your child to join that club?

What if the club owed 750million in compensation to the Irish state to pay the victims of its abuse, would you want your child to join that club still?

Now, what if that club also had a history of neglect of children in its care which resulted in the deaths of countless thousands (2x the nations mortality rate at the time). What if the club was also found dumping some of those body's into a dis-used septic tank? would you still want your child to join that club?

Would you want your child to join that club just so they aren't left out in school or as part of that clubs celebrations?

Would you want your child to join the club just because its the "done thing" and your family did the same to you when you were a child?

If you think its crazy that anybody would want their child to be part of such a club then ask yourself this, why are you doing the same with your child and the catholic church in Ireland?

Why are you outraged at the church and its crimes but at the same time you are happy to baptise your child, you are happy to do the communion and confirmation events.

I'm not suggesting that you don't believe in a god or even the bible, if you believe in god in your life and that helps you then go with it.

However, that doesn't for a second mean you must align yourself to the catholic church in Ireland. That doesn't for a second mean you need to sign your kid upto the catholic church. You can have a faith without doing this after all!

Please think for a moment before you blindly sign your child up to this "club", do it for the right reasons and don't just blindly do it so your child can make some money and have a bouncy castle for their communion and confirmation.

Deep down you know that if such a sports club existed locally to you that you wouldn't for a second even consider signing your child upto it.

Jan_de_Bakker

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I was never religious but I formally defected from the Catholic Church, when it was still possible a few years ago, because of these kinds of horrific incidents.

There's only so much tiptoeing around these subjects that I could do. This kind of horror just goes against every fibre of my being, everything I believe and everything I stand for and I just couldn't allow myself to be counted amongst the 'flock'. So, I defected and told them precisely why.

These things happened because people didn't stand up and allowed themselves to be bullied and horrific abuses to be covered up.

It's a profound failure of the organisation and absolutely unbelievable levels of corruption that allowed these things to happen.

Corruption doesn't have to be about money. It was deceit, lawbreaking, non-enforcement, blind-eye-turning, and behaving in a way that was so two-faced, and so contrary to the message they preached.

Was that the "Count me out" website ?

I missed the opportunity on that one, so angry that I did - I am still used
as a stat by the RCC as a practicing believer ...

Jan_de_Bakker

BlinkingLights wrote: »

It's called brain washing.

I mean, this is the same organisation that we are actually debating leaving in charge of the vast majority of schools and rolling out secular, publicly run schools is for some reason controversial ?!!?

Exactly, it's mind boggling that it's even a f*cking debate!!
It sickens me how many people still defend the RCC - even members of my own family :mad:

Jan_de_Bakker

aloyisious wrote: »

super furry posted this item in The Clerical Child Abuse Thread (merged). Ta, super furry.

http://www.thejournal.ie/list-names-tuam-babies-children-3270019-Mar2017/?utm_source=shortlink

Jesus, really hits you when you look through the list and see the ages.

RIP

Jan_de_Bakker

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Umm, I think the biggest hypocrisy here is that the RCC claims to be 'pro life', then carries on like this when it thinks no one is looking! Also remember the "Children need their mothers for life, not just for 9 months" bull**** during the marriage referendum? Obviously that doesnt apply if the RCC can make money from forcibly taking them from their mother and selling them, only when they are at 'risk' of gay parents!

They are "pro life" when the baby is in utero, once he or she is born they don't give a **** ...they're on their own.

Jan_de_Bakker

Cabaal wrote: »

Didn't see the point in outrage and hate so I'm trying to make people think about their link to the catholic church, so I posted this.

Fantastic!!!!

This should be published in every media outlet ...

Get this on to the Irish Times ...

aloyisious

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

Was that the "Count me out" website ?

I missed the opportunity on that one, so angry that I did - I am still used
as a stat by the RCC as a practicing believer ...

Unfortunately for those who "defected" (as the church called the process by which one withdrew from it) Benedict & the Vatican cancelled the process so any "defections" done under it were annulled without (as far as I know) those who "defected" knowing that they were re-admitted to the fold. Para 2 in the link....

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjP2-_W6MHSAhXKJ8AKHVhfBtoQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFormal_act_of_defection_from_the_Catholic_Church&usg=AFQjCNFVX-zEZVZlCouRs_2vsAbH0-qvyg

Seth Brundle

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

They are "pro life" when the baby is in utero, once he or she is born they don't give a **** ...they're on their own.

The RCC organisation has never cared about anything other than money!

Cabaal

kbannon wrote: »

The RCC organisation has never cared about anything other than money!

Nah, they also care about one other thing....power.

pauldla

Cabaal wrote: »

Didn't see the point in outrage and hate so I'm trying to make people think about their link to the catholic church, so I posted this.
.....

It's very good and makes an excellent point. I've just seen it being circulated on FB.

dar100

So, we have an order preaching morality and ethics, pro life, no children out of wedlock, anti this anti that, not allowed to marry etc etc

Yet, we physically, emotionally, sexually abuse and murder children and cover it up, and when confronted on it try to further hide and excuse it, and hide members by putting others at risk

What an sick and disgusting organisation, why is it that it is always those who claim to be the most helpful, that turn out to be the most horrendous? Il include the child and family agency in that category also

dar100

So, we have an order preaching morality and ethics, pro life, no children out of wedlock, anti this anti that, not allowed to marry etc etc

Yet, we physically, emotionally, sexually abuse and murder children and cover it up, and when confronted on it try to further hide and excuse it, and hide members by putting others at risk

What an sick and disgusting organisation, why is it that it is always those who claim to be the most helpful, that turn out to be the most horrendous? Il include the child and family agency in that category also

pwurple

I apologise to those women and children. Me. On my own behalf, and for any one in my family who lived here before me, and was involved in this.

How awfully bloody convenient is it to have a scapegoat in the church, means we can wash our own dirty hands of it, right? Sign that auld website there, and you're done. Ahhh public virtue signalling. Conscience is clear. Sins absolved.

Never mind that the elected govt  (ie, representing us, the irish people) charged them with doing this. Paid them to provide this. But nah, nevermind that, there's a scapegoat to haul out instead. 

It's disgusting how these women and children were treated, The catholic church was tasked with it here, and various other organisations got this disgusting job globally. If it wasn't them, it would have been someone else dealing with it. 


Women and children were seen as completely worthless by society, a drain. And it was up to very recently too. I have receipts for the laundries in my house, my very own family paid those women to wash our clothes. I asked how this could be justified, did they know what was going on? I was told they thought they were doing a good deed providing work for the women and subsidising their accommodation. 

They knew what was happening, because almost every family I know had encountered a child who was adopted out of those places, or had a girl in the family who ended up in there. Sending the pregnant women off somewhere out of site was a public service, siphoned out to whoever volunteered. Up there with alms houses, our hospitals and our schools, our charity sector and our social housing. It was outsourcing, and the buck lies with the government and the people. Us. We need to take responsibility, and make sure it doesn't continue to happen in our country, with our votes and our actions. 



I wish I could say I don't see it happening again, but I know damn well people are being treated just as badly right here today. Direct provision centers. People being trafficked in and sleeping on restaurant floors. Refugees we turn away. But nobody gives a toss about those people these days, they are the new worthless. 

What happened this child, this was 2016:
[font=arial, sans-serif]http://www.newstalk.com/Korean-woman-dies-at-direct-provision-centre-in-Cork[/font]

realdanbreen

With the advances in DNA testing etc you would imagine it would be possible to determine who the fathers of these babies were and where possible hold them to account.

Cabaal

realdanbreen wrote: »

With the advances in DNA testing etc you would imagine it would be possible to determine who the fathers of these babies were and where possible hold them to account.

The children were under the care of the catholic church at the time as such you couldn't hold the fathers at fault for the deaths.

The duty of care was to the church, not the fathers. You may not like that but the church made it that way once the women were under there care as well. The church only have themselves to blame.

Trying to blame the fathers in this instance is as idiotic as trying to blame a parent for sending their kid to school where the kid is then abused or killed. While the child is in the school the duty of care is to the school. Not the parent!

Mr. CooL ICE

realdanbreen wrote: »

With the advances in DNA testing etc you would imagine it would be possible to determine who the fathers of these babies were and where possible hold them to account.

Account for what?

Cabaal

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Account for what?

Account for nothing,
His post is nothing more then a seriously poor attend to deflect blame away from the church.

The church created a society where "it knew best", it pushed the idea that these homes were the best places for these "fallen women". These women that committed not just a sin but a mortal sin, being a mortal sin meant it was equal to murder in the church's books.

The church created a perfect storm for them to have power and control over the masses. Yes some people didn't follow what they said but those that spoke out were quickly set upon by the local community at the order of the church.

It was normal for priests to order a family or community to turn against a person that had done something that the priests didn't agree with, such as make a claim of abuse against a priest, a person leaving the priesthood etc.

I had this happen to one of my own relations where the priest tried to make such orders because a relative left the priesthood. Truly sickening stuff.

realdanbreen

Cabaal wrote: »

Account for nothing,
His post is nothing more then a seriously poor attend to deflect blame away from the church.

.

Don't be putting words in my mouth, I am not attempting to deflect blame from anybody or anyone. All those involved in treating pregnant women as dirt and all that went with it should be held responsible but also for far too long, even to the present day I would suggest, it's the women who were made to suffer. What about the fathers of all these children, many of them were the so called 'pillars' of society, why are they not make take responsibility abdicating their responsibility .

recedite

pwurple wrote: »

I wish I could say I don't see it happening again, but I know damn well people are being treated just as badly right here today. Direct provision centers. People being trafficked in and sleeping on restaurant floors. Refugees we turn away. But nobody gives a toss about those people these days, they are the new worthless.

What happened this child, this was 2016:
[font=arial, sans-serif]http://www.newstalk.com/Korean-woman-dies-at-direct-provision-centre-in-Cork[/font]

In fairness, the modern day examples you cite are nothing like what happened at Tuam. The state, or indeed society, cannot be held accountable for the welfare of illegal immigrants who remain hidden from the authorities.
The South Korean woman appears to have had ongoing psychiatric problems, leading to her suicide. She came from Seoul, which is an extremely prosperous city. I can't think of any valid reason why she would have been entitled to political asylum or refugee status in Ireland. That she was kept in direct provision and treated by a doctor while she was here seems to have been an act of charity by the state. Its a tragedy alright, but not one of our making.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/woman-in-direct-provision-centre-took-her-own-life-441001.html

realdanbreen

recedite wrote: »

In fairness, the modern day examples you cite are nothing like what happened at Tuam. The state, or indeed society, cannot be held accountable for the welfare of illegal immigrants who remain hidden from the authorities.
The South Korean woman appears to have had ongoing psychiatric problems, leading to her suicide. She came from Seoul, which is an extremely prosperous city. I can't think of any valid reason why she would have been entitled to political asylum or refugee status in Ireland. That she was kept in direct provision and treated by a doctor while she was here seems to have been an act of charity by the state. Its a tragedy alright, but not one of our making.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/woman-in-direct-provision-centre-took-her-own-life-441001.html

Of course what happened in Tuam was awful(BTW we need to be told exactly what happened in Tuam as some are of the opinion that children were excecuted in Tuam) but as a society its all very well to be shocked at what happened in the past but we should also be exercised about the humans that are suffering today.

looksee

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course what happened in Tuam was awful(BTW we need to be told exactly what happened in Tuam as some are of the opinion that children were excecuted in Tuam) but as a society its all very well to be shocked at what happened in the past but we should also be exercised about the humans that are suffering today.

Mod: This is no doubt true, but is the subject for another thread. This one is about the Tuam situation.

pH

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course what happened in Tuam was awful(BTW we need to be told exactly what happened in Tuam as some are of the opinion that children were excecuted in Tuam) but as a society its all very well to be shocked at what happened in the past but we should also be exercised about the humans that are suffering today.

If the mortality rate claimed by the journal.ie (31%) for under 1 year old children is to be believed for 1947 (the year they have analysed) then it does seem that 2 years after the Nazis were defeated in Europe, here in Ireland we had our only concentration camps were the illegitimate were being systematically eradicated.

Nothing else could explain how a national mortality rate of 7% for infants up to 1 year old could be raised by almost five-fold to the 31% achieved within this home.

journal.ie (source of 31% figure for 1947)
http://www.thejournal.ie/tuam-infant-deaths-1563994-Jul2014/

cso (source of the 7% national average figure for 1940s)
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/vitalstats/2010/chapter42010.pdf

magicbastarder

realdanbreen wrote: »

but as a society its all very well to be shocked at what happened in the past but

but but but.

Seth Brundle

realdanbreen wrote: »

With the advances in DNA testing etc you would imagine it would be possible to determine who the fathers of these babies were and where possible hold them to account.

Leaving aside the fact that the fathers whilst not supporting the children, didn't directly contribute towards their premature deaths, DNA tests will reveal if the father is related to one of the dead infants, *if* you have a sample from the father!

Sofiztikated

realdanbreen wrote: »

Don't be putting words in my mouth, I am not attempting to deflect blame from anybody or anyone. All those involved in treating pregnant women as dirt and all that went with it should be held responsible but also for far too long, even to the present day I would suggest, it's the women who were made to suffer. What about the fathers of all these children, many of them were the so called 'pillars' of society, why are they not make take responsibility abdicating their responsibility .

You "could" go after the 1000's that were involved with societal issues, and get nowhere.

Or you "could" go after the organisation that facilitated human traficking, neglect, human experiments, falsification of records, and manslaughter (I wouldn't be too sure on how this would fair out, but I'd like someone to give it a shot.)

realdanbreen

looksee wrote: »

Mod: This is no doubt true, but is the subject for another thread. This one is about the Tuam situation.

That's fair enough and seeing as there are inquiry's and tribunals for just about everything nowadays there definitely is a need for one here and soon.

realdanbreen

magicbastarder wrote: »

but but but.

Do you agree when I suggest that there should be a full no holds barred investigation into this? I am seeing headlines and leading news story's but I still am unclear as to what exactly took place in Tuam.

aloyisious

I came across this linked newspaper report on F/B, THE LINK IS ABOVE THE EDIT entry... At the top of the page, the report is dated Monday Mar 6th 2017 but scrolling down a few lines is this: By Alison O'reilly For The Irish Mail On Sunday
PUBLISHED: 22:07, 26 December 2015 | UPDATED: 09:55, 27 December 2015. I see mention in it of the residents from the home being moved to another named location for children when the Tuam home was closed.

veracity will be in the eyes of the reader....


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3374922/The-house-tears-Secret-tapes-woman-spent-years-controversial-Irish-home-unmarried-mothers-reveals-unmarked-mass-grave-children.html#ixzz4aZV4s14d
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://dailym.ai/1TlzivP

EDIT: - Below is a link to an irish current affairs programme with two former residents broadcast here in Ireland within the last two years.... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjHjKPqw8LSAhWJBcAKHco5BqoQtwIIGzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8rjzjFbPduE&usg=AFQjCNFqnvdCX_1zCHj-69WdgcmJKAG4HQ

magicbastarder

realdanbreen wrote: »

Do you agree when I suggest that there should be a full no holds barred investigation into this? I am seeing headlines and leading news story's but I still am unclear as to what exactly took place in Tuam.

your post was just simple whataboutery.

Esel

I'm pretty sure I read/heard about 'dying rooms' in these homes.

Edit: Found these links:

http://www.thejournal.ie/mother-baby-homes-commission-inquiry-1830686-Dec2014/

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mass-grave-galway-tuam-/

ShooterSF

It's kinda (not) funny that in the next few days hundreds of kids up and down the country will be brought by parents for their confirmation lucky that they were not brought up in the care of the organisation they are committing themselves to, lest they be too dead to do so.

smacl

aloyisious

The Tuam Home story was just discussed by Joe Duffy, Catherine Corless and a priest, Fr Paul, re an article Fr Paul wrote about the story. Joe interviewed Fr Paul for some time about a part of his article that the story in the papers was the work of the devil, lies, and made what was in effect a withdrawal from his remarks, saying that he meant something different, when Joe put it to him that it meant Catherine and the witnesses has lied. Joe then intro'd and invited Catherine to speak. She told Fr Paul information about the home, the burial chamber, A tunnel leading from the home to it, the fact that the dead were witnessed being brought from the home along the tunnel, the local carpenters telling that they made very few coffins for the children who died there, those who were buried in the ground, making it seem that he had done no research for his article. I got the impression that Fr Paul left the interview very much stunned by what Catherine was able to tell him what was known factually about the home, and its architectural structures, that he was not aware of.

Fr Paul also made a reference that there may have been another location with children, not the one his father told him he lived at, with regard to what has been revealed by Catherine and the witnesses. It seem's Fr Paul based all in the article he wrote on what he remembers his father telling him about his time in the home.

It's the first I've heard about Fr paul and his article, and I have no link to it.

Edit. info on Wikipedia: the home was demolished in 1972; had a varied history. Built as a workhouse in 1841, used as a Bks by British in 1916 (occupants evicted), by Irish Army in 1923 (workhouse used in execution of 8 IRA men) before the nuns took it over in 1925. I can't find when the tunnel was built but there is this recent (as history goes) historical link giving data on some burials being found in 2012.... There is an O.S.I. site map links within the link below.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjhu_Cg4MTSAhWpKsAKHTrBAKUQFgg7MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistoricgraves.com%2Fblog%2Fmiscellanea%2Farchaeology-tuam-workhouse-st-mary-s-mother-baby-home-personal-perspective&usg=AFQjCNE0ACsB3Ch38Dhr1fR0EwAWLK5cAg

looksee

There was a tunnel to the burial place? How many septic tanks have tunnels (as against pipes) leading to them?

PopePalpatine

I wonder if "Fr Paul" is a friend if either Bill Donohue or Brian McKevitt. :rolleyes:

Neyite

looksee wrote: »

There was a tunnel to the burial place? How many septic tanks have tunnels (as against pipes) leading to them?

I found this a good explanation:

http://izzykamikaze.tumblr.com/post/89770303451/vaults-under-tuambabies-site-are-part-of-sewage

frostyjacks

I get the showy outrage directed at the Church; they would probably have handled things differently with hindsight. But we can't let the laity off the hook here; they effectively disowned their own daughters. It's a bit of a cop out to say the Church forced families to send their girls into these homes. If they truly loved them they wouldn't have abandoned them.

And ironically, those screaming loudest about this are pro-abortion. The mind boggles.

Lucy8080

aloyisious wrote: »

The Tuam Home story was just discussed by Joe Duffy, Catherine Corless and a priest, Fr Paul, re an article Fr Paul wrote about the story. Joe interviewed Fr Paul for some time about a part of his article that the story in the papers was the work of the devil, lies, and made what was in effect a withdrawal from his remarks, saying that he meant something different, when Joe put it to him that it meant Catherine and the witnesses has lied. Joe then intro'd and invited Catherine to speak. She told Fr Paul information about the home, the burial chamber, A tunnel leading from the home to it, the fact that the dead were witnessed being brought from the home along the tunnel, the local carpenters telling that they made very few coffins for the children who died there, those who were buried in the ground, making it seem that he had done no research for his article. I got the impression that Fr Paul left the interview very much stunned by what Catherine was able to tell him what was known factually about the home, and its architectural structures, that he was not aware of.

Fr Paul also made a reference that there may have been another location with children, not the one his father told him he lived at, with regard to what has been revealed by Catherine and the witnesses. It seem's Fr Paul based all in the article he wrote on what he remembers his father telling him about his time in the home.

It's the first I've heard about Fr paul and his article, and I have no link to it.

Marklambert.blogspot Bon secours home tuam.

Stick the above into to google and it should be your first hit.

looksee

Neyite - Thank you for that, although I had seen it. I can really only make out the first diagram, which suggests a 9ft chamber with a 3 ft tunnel leading into it. I cannot see anyone, least of all a nun creeping along a 3ft tunnel to place a baby in there. Also the space below the outlet of the the tunnel is only about 2 ft or so, not a lot of space for effluent and if it filled up it would fill the tunnel.

It doesn't really matter to me what the arrangements are of the sewage system or the 'crypt' (apart from a general interest in buildings and how they work). What I would like to do is move the attention away from this idea of 'throwing babies into a septic tank' which doesn't really seem to describe what happened, not from any sense of defending what happened, but because it is being used as 'click-bait' away from the far more important point - the way the children were treated while they were alive, and the extraordinary mortality rate compared with the general population.

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

I get the showy outrage directed at the Church; they would probably have handled things differently with hindsight. But we can't let the laity off the hook here; they effectively disowned their own daughters. It's a bit of a cop out to say the Church forced families to send their girls into these homes. If they truly loved them they wouldn't have abandoned them.

And ironically, those screaming loudest about this are pro-abortion. The mind boggles.

Have to agree with you: it does seem rather immoral overall.

smacl

aloyisious wrote: »

Have to agree with you: it does seem rather immoral overall.

It does, but it is a morality informed by the Church to begin with, in that single mothers were demonised in Ireland for having sex outside of marriage on the basis that it was sinful in the eyes of the church. The same could be said about much of Irish moral attitudes surrounding sexuality, and to some extent still can. There does seem to be a long standing attitude in this country that it is of supreme importance to be seen to be doing the right thing even when everyone knows the right thing is as often as not the wrong thing.

Cabaal

Seriously bad timing by the government, if they had sense they should have pulled out of this opening gig given the stuff that came out on Friday.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/03/07/bon-succour/

Michael Noonan launched Bon Secours in Limerick yesterdayy. This in the wake of the Tuam bodies. The Bon Secours order own a series of private hospitals.

Maybe he was letting the board of Bon Secours know the Fine Gael government would do nothing to the order or their private profits.

Bon Secours made €2.3 million in profit last year and have over €70 million in accumulated profits as of the end of 2016.

People Before Profit have called for vigils at all Bon Secours hospitals for 6pm this Friday.

Good to know they have lots of profit, now can we get some compensation for the victims?

aloyisious

smacl wrote: »

It does, but it is a morality informed by the Church to begin with, in that single mothers were demonised in Ireland for having sex outside of marriage on the basis that it was sinful in the eyes of the church. The same could be said about much of Irish moral attitudes surrounding sexuality, and to some extent still can. There does seem to be a long standing attitude in this country that it is of supreme importance to be seen to be doing the right thing even when everyone knows the right thing is as often as not the wrong thing.

You got here before I could include our "the land of saints and scholars" reputation is taking a battering worldwide. I think I saw the story on the front page of the LA Times yesterday.

Cabaal

In other news

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/18/i-was-put-into-a-bag-and-told-i-was-going-into-a-bog-hole/

Last night TV3’s The People’s Debate With Vincent Browne took place in the Galway East constituency.

Many would get beaten with a rod or a stick, I was treated with nettles. Nettles put inside my trousers. I hated seeing summers coming because I knew this was going to happen again. I was put into a bag one day, I was told I was going to be put into the bog hole. That was my life story. I could go on for another hour.”

Neyite

looksee wrote: »

Neyite - Thank you for that, although I had seen it. I can really only make out the first diagram, which suggests a 9ft chamber with a 3 ft tunnel leading into it. I cannot see anyone, least of all a nun creeping along a 3ft tunnel to place a baby in there. Also the space below the outlet of the the tunnel is only about 2 ft or so, not a lot of space for effluent and if it filled up it would fill the tunnel.

It doesn't really matter to me what the arrangements are of the sewage system or the 'crypt' (apart from a general interest in buildings and how they work). What I would like to do is move the attention away from this idea of 'throwing babies into a septic tank' which doesn't really seem to describe what happened, not from any sense of defending what happened, but because it is being used as 'click-bait' away from the far more important point - the way the children were treated while they were alive, and the extraordinary mortality rate compared with the general population.

I highly doubt the nuns did set foot in a former cesspit. Even the death certificates were signed off by the doctor over the home and the housekeeper. My guess is that staff such as gardeners or other inmates placed the bodies there at the instructions of the nuns. Question is, why they did so - was it because the nuns were hiding something, or was it simply that they didn't want to waste the money or land on burial.

It is more important to shine a light on the wretched lives these children endured at the hands of the nuns I fully agree. We need to know how these homes were run, who authorised what, what income streams there were, if there was illegal acts commited. We need to know how these children and their mothers were treated, and why so many died. We need to know who inspected these homes and why they did not spot what was going on. Every home needs scrutiny.

aloyisious

Enda is giving the nation in general a scourging in the Dail on the issue. Opposition response is very blunt in regard the Bon Secour Order, laying into it's profiting, referencing the hospital and cash for adaption deals.

Ta Neyite: I had wondered about death certs for the children recorded as dead in the Home's record books. One of the home's former residents, Peter Mulryan, said within the past two days that he believes his sister, while being registered as dead by the home, may have been sold on as an adopted child to a family in the U.S.