Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam
Options
Comments
-
-
-
Personally I blame Hamurabi. If that monster had not started writing down laws no one would have been any the wiser.
Why do people always end up blaming the Brits. We gave the world civilisation. Think of all those things that the world would not have had but for us Brits... East India Company, Slave trade, Idi Amin, Israel and Palestine, The Sultan of Brunei... Some people are just ungrateful.
Oh come on... a mere 90 years. It took over 170 years to repeal ...
Well...technically Henry VIII and his heirs were still our monarchs up until recently...might still be actually....see, a researcher happened upon some documents best filed under 'oops we forgot to repeal that bit of legislation. Golly, this is still legal legislation.'
Oh how us historians laughed and laughed and then we cried.0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Bannasidhe wrote: »I had no hand or part in the drafting - Just sharing it - maybe someone should contact Lindsey R who put up the petition...I am a ickle bit busy chain smoking and storming around the garden swearing at the end of every chapter of which ever report I am currently reading....:(
I'm just saying that you did.
Just in general it is a good idea as you can ensure it's hitting all the correct legal points.
Don't storm too much !
it's one of three nicest days of the year. 0 -
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Bannasidhe wrote: »typo?
Fair enough as an observation.
I may be cranky today....:cool:
Probably! I got a new phone... Taking a while to get used to the bigger screen for typing on.
You can expect a few strange typos for a while0 -
-
Bannasidhe wrote: »This is a slide show of photographs taken by Michael O'Brien of the derelict Good Shepherds Convent/Orphanage/Magdalene Laundry Cork in 2010.
It shows the sheer size of the place and hints at the scale of the operation.
Imagine finding yourself in here...
Abandon all hope, ye who enter
I've walked around it in the past, t'is an unsettling experience.Also spoke to a person who was pretty much raised in the place,wrecked their mental health. They found 155 unmarked graves there btw.0 -
Personally I blame Hamurabi. If that monster had not started writing down laws no one would have been any the wiser.
Why do people always end up blaming the Brits. We gave the world civilisation. Think of all those things that the world would not have had but for us Brits... East India Company, Slave trade, Idi Amin, Israel and Palestine, The Sultan of Brunei... Some people are just ungrateful.
....
Reminded me of one of my favourite lines from the Patrick O'Brian books: "Was it not the Celt who taught the Saxon his letters? With, admittedly, limited success".
0 -
-
We do tend to conveniently forget that what what ended up with was really a bastardised version of puritanical Victorian society with its rigid social class system and a very harshly puritanical version of Catholicism.
Both were all about class and punishing anything 'sinful' or unrespectable.
They combined to create an very inhumane and society that really aimed to force conformity.
I really think when we look at what being Irish is all about that we are a lot more than that horrible period of history.
We have a lot of idealism, a lot of great social entrepreneurs and we once had one of the most progressive legal systems in the known world.
I honestly think we are rediscovering the good stuff about Ireland but we really urgently need to deal with the horrors of that ultra conservative period too.
I think Irish people were more oppressed and living in fear of authority figures than genuinely conservative. We're a fairly gregarious bunch most of the time and I'm not really seeing where the cold conservativism fits with the otherwise warm, people focused mentality that most Irish people seem to have.
The church and conservatives used the ultimate sanction : the threat of social exclusion and condemnation to control society.
I'm not religious at all but, I'd much rather see the more human face of the old Gaelic church approach than this medievalism that seems to have taken over from it.
YES! Reading this has gladdened my little historian heart.
Ironic that the one facet of the Gaelic world our myth makers did let us keep was it's ultimate sanction. Our Gaelic ancestors didn't execute people - they stopped 'seeing' them. I sometimes think when reading the old law texts that if it wasn't for the lack of antibiotics and broadband I'd be happy enough back there - but then I would have high status and be allowed to wear a coat of many colours :pac:
Back when I was a fresher I used to wonder why historians of Ireland with a medievalist/early modernist bent were so damn cranky, touchy and generally snappy when one made a 'learnt that in school' kind of comment.
Now I am that cranky, touchy and generally snappy medievalist/early modernist. See, us mumbling in the corner cranky pants know the extent we have been lied to about our history. I am convinced this was deliberate as Eoin MacNeill knew his stuff and I wonder how he reconciled his scholarship with the twee Celtic twilight diddly eiddly saints and scholars catholic since Patrick BS that was being promulgated throughout out new 'independent' education system. Perhaps that is why he climbed back into his ivory tower house....
D.A Binchy did do amazing work on Gaelic Law which he published as Corpus Iuris Hibernici, but it is telling that although he did write on the status of Gaelic women in the 1930s - he published the resulting article in German (he was ambassador to Germany for a while) and it lay unknown to most people in Ireland until Donnachada O Corrain happened upon it in the 70s.
I do find it interesting that the foremost scholar of Brehon Law in shiny new 'independent' Ireland felt the need to publish the results of his work on women in the Gaelic world in a language most Irish people could not read - could it be because that work showed that women as utterly submissive to men was not, in fact, the 'natural order' of things and that Gaelic women - even within an undoubtedly Patriarchal and patrilinial society - had legal rights unheard of in the Roman world and it's bastard off spring 'Christendom'?
It is sad and ironic that by the time O'Corrain found Binchy's article in the 70s the legal rights of Irish women were so much less than Binchy showed their ancestors enjoyed - it took European intervention for us to get back what we had lost in the 17th century so intent were our political masters in keeping Ireland 'Victorian'.
It is also sad and ironic fact is our heritage would have been safer if we had remained in the Union (our women and children certainly would have been). Since 'independence' the civil authorities have - whether by design or apathy is debatable - allowed the whole scale destruction of irreplaceable documents and artefacts relating to pre-Tudor Ireland... unless there is a clerical connection of course - even if it is a made up one like that assigned to Round Towers.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
Bannasidhe wrote: »This is a slide show of photographs taken by Michael O'Brien of the derelict Good Shepherds Convent/Orphanage/Magdalene Laundry Cork in 2010.
It shows the sheer size of the place and hints at the scale of the operation.
Imagine finding yourself in here...
Abandon all hope, ye who enter
Oh looky. ANOTHER fire in a convent/laundry/hell hole.... The convenience is staggering...:(0 -
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Just to remind people - in case anyone wants to do a bit of nosey poking - of our list of worthies tasked with over seeing St Mary's, Tuam.
Also hats off to obliq who really is playing a blinder in uncovering enough info to allow me to ascertain for certain who these people were.
1927/28:
Rev. Canon MacAlinney (sp?)
Canon Ryder
Mr E Corbett
Mr Crowe
Mr T Flanagan
Mr J Gallagher
Mr M Hallman
Mr Leonard
Mr G Lynch
Mr J McDonagh
Mr J McKeigue
Mr M Mylotte
Mr J J Nestor
Mr S O'Connor.
1937/38
Co. Galway Homes and Home Assistance Committee.
Chair:
Martin O Regan.
Members:
Mr. E. Corbett.
Mr. J. McKeigue
Mr. P. Reynolds
Mr. J. Shiel.
Mr. M. Connelly.
Mr. M. Quinn.
Mr. M.O. Finnerty
Mr. P. Kyne.
Name and Shame # 2
James J. Nestor.
DOB: c1878, Quinaltagh, Dunmore, Galway.
DOD. 1957, Tuam, Galway.
J.J Nestor attended Garrafrauns National School (lovely little Catholic/nationalist 'history' of the school here http://www.garrafrauns.com/page23.php) and was a noted Gaelic footballer. Twice captaining Dunmore McHales to Senior County Final victories (1900 & 1902) .
He later became manager and chairman of the Galway Senior Football Board. The Galway Championship cup is the called the J.J. Nestor Cup in his honour.
http://dunmorens.com/dunmore_machales.html
note: John McHale had been archbishop of Tuam - he was agin the secular national school system and pro- education under the religious orders. It may be coincidence that only 3 national schools -- by which I mean actual national schools - were opened in Tuam during his tenure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_MacHaleMacHale condemned the Poor Law, and the system of National Schools and Queen's Colleges as devised by the Government. He founded his own schools, entrusting those for boys to the Christian Brothers and Franciscan monks, while Sisters of Mercy and Presentation Nuns taught the girls. Want of funds restricted the number of these schools,which had to be supplemented by the National Board at a later period, when the necessary amendments had been added to the Bill.
In 1899, Nestor helped found the Dunmore Dramatic Society. http://www.dads-dunmore.com/33532718
Photo of the all male cast of a 1900 production - all their productions were men only. Better a cock in a frock than a woman on the stage.
The 1901 census has 26 year old Nestor living, with 14 other men, in what appears to be some form of boarding house/hostel for shop assistants at 2.1 Bridge St, Dunmore. He is literate and bi-lingual. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Dunmore/Bridge_Street/1399013/http://www.dads-dunmore.com/33532718
By 1911 the now 33 year old (!) Nestor was married to Minnie O'Connor from Kerry with two young sons and a domestic servant in the form of 16 year old Sara Kelly (I suspect a local girl as a Sarah Kelly appears on Griffith's valuation 1864. Names tended to 'run' in families so a grandmother perhaps(?) This pure conjecture on my part). He was also a prosperous merchant living above his shop at 4 Bridge Street, Dunmore, Galway (the shop as it currently looks here https://maps.google.ie/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=4++Bridge+Street+(Dunmore+South,+Galway)&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=53.618740,-8.743203&cbp=13,95.9,0,0,0&cbll=53.618741,-8.743221&sa=X&ei=csmaU4yaPKbQ7AaztoCAAg&ved=0CCAQxB0wAA).
The property was considered to be a '1st class' house.
At the time Nestor is confirmed on as being on the committee overseeing St Mary's, Tuam on behalf of Galway Co. Co. he was also attempting to win a seat in Dáil Éireann. Running on the Cumann na nGaedheal ticket he was unsuccessfull in both of the 1927 General Elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway_(D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency)#June_1927_general_election
By the time of his death in 1957, Nestor was a comfortably well off auctioneer and businessman. http://dunmorens.com/dunmore_machales.html
A footballing, prosperous, pillar of the community.
That's one FF TD in the form of Eamonn Corbett and one wanna be CnG TD in the form of J J Nestor so far...
Will update as more info confirmed.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quPfbRkx4cw
Advertisement