Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

Hoagy

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Do you know if any files were lost in this case? Seriously?

This thread in the adoption forum has some information about it:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75198697

I Heart Internet

Hoagy wrote: »

This thread in the adoption forum has some information about it:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75198697

Oh right. Quoting from first page of that thread:

Bod the Munster one! wrote: »

I know the Good shepard Nun who is still part of the tracing operation. the fire was the laundry and those books were not all distroyed they have very good records in comparison to the other orders in cork.and even with the missing day books have everyones names and dob

kylith

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Oh right. Quoting from first page of that thread:

And from the post right under that one:

kathy finn wrote: »

hi bod, they probably have the records but they would not admit that to me they wrote back and said they where distroyed in the fire. i had much more luck with the dept of education. kathy

secondrowgal

I Heart Internet wrote: »

How many inmates files or operating files from the institution were destroyed in this fire?

I have no idea, and I didn't say that any were. I said that there was yet another fire in a convent/laundry. And I commented on how convenient it was. That's it.

abaddon_ire

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Just to remind people - in case anyone wants to do a bit of nosey poking - of our list of worthies tasked with over seeing St Mary's, Tuam.
Also hats off to obliq who really is playing a blinder in uncovering enough info to allow me to ascertain for certain who these people were.

1927/28:
Rev. Canon MacAlinney (sp?)
<snip>

This guy?

MACALINNEY, Canon Thomas Edward, Eslin, 1879 - 1931
Son of Elizabeth Stenson and Edward MacAlinney. Ordained in 1903. Went on the Missions to South Africa. P.P. Spiddal1914 to 1931. Buried at the Church in Spiddal

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Also hats off to obliq who really is playing a blinder in uncovering enough info to allow me to ascertain for certain who these people were.

Not much of late, sorry. Cheers though. Real life got in the way in the form of arrangements for teen house party with bonfire and sound - all presenting a myriad of problems such as shed clearance (to where, I ask you??!), lost audio/stereo leads, dodgy electrics (RCCB tripped twice this morning), tents, bonfire material, etc. Should be good to get back to this once the 20+ teens land in and the parents leave.....:(

abaddon_ire wrote: »

This guy?

MACALINNEY, Canon Thomas Edward, Eslin, 1879 - 1931
Son of Elizabeth Stenson and Edward MacAlinney. Ordained in 1903. Went on the Missions to South Africa. P.P. Spiddal1914 to 1931. Buried at the Church in Spiddal

Totally that guy, nice one. Spent 2 hrs yesterday finding nothing else on him except a mention of him driving off some republicans having a footie match, because the RIC had asked him to....

Here's the link for what abaddon has here above Bann. http://www.mohillparish.ie/MohillClergyandReligious2.htm

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ps. LOVE the photo! So our man Nestor is one of these I presume....

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Ps. LOVE the photo! So our man Nestor is one of these I presume....

He isn't one of the few people positively identified but he appears to have been one of their leading Thespians so I would imagine he is.

krankykitty is currently on the trail of Canon Ryder.

abaddon_ire

There's a Mr. E. Corbett in the Galway Harbour Commissioners in 1938.

Same guy?

Bannasidhe

abaddon_ire wrote: »

There's a Mr. E. Corbett in the Galway Harbour Commissioners in 1938.

Same guy?

Have you a link can I can check it out.

abaddon_ire

Can't post links yet, so you'll have to reassemble it


http:// connachttribune.ie / galway-in-time-gone-by-a-browse-through-the-archives-of-the-connacht-tribune-21/

And again in 1928 on the County Galway Libraries Committee

http:// places.galwaylibrary.ie / history/chapter364.html

And again as chairman of the county council

http:// places.galwaylibrary.ie / history/chapter363.html

Here he is again on the County Galway Homes and Home Assistance Committee in 1928

http:// places.galwaylibrary.ie / history/chapter382.html

Busy guy

Bannasidhe

My, but Eamonn appears to have put himself about!

abaddon_ire

Useful resource at:

http:// irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com /2011/11/08/galway-county-council-election-results-1925-to-2009-and-galway-city-council-election-results-1967-to-2009/

Covers all of the local election results from 1925 to 2009, candidates, parties, votes the lot.

Also includes the majority of names on the list.

Bannasidhe

abaddon_ire wrote: »

Useful resource at:

http:// irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com /2011/11/08/galway-county-council-election-results-1925-to-2009-and-galway-city-council-election-results-1967-to-2009/

Covers all of the local election results from 1925 to 2009, candidates, parties, votes the lot.

Also includes the majority of names on the list.

You've hit the jackpot there.

I will be restricted in my web access til Monday as I will be in dongleland so if anyone want to see who we have who sought elected office please work away.

Much appreciated.

Lingua Franca

abaddon_ire wrote: »

Useful resource at:

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/galway-county-council-election-results-1925-to-2009-and-galway-city-council-election-results-1967-to-2009/

Covers all of the local election results from 1925 to 2009, candidates, parties, votes the lot.

Also includes the majority of names on the list.

Fixed your link.

Lingua Franca

^I'd have a look myself but my computer progammes speak Dutch far better than I do so it's quite a effort for me to figure stuff out.

abaddon_ire

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Fixed your link.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

^I'd have a look myself but my computer progammes speak Dutch far better than I do so it's quite a effort for me to figure stuff out.

Thank you much.

Bannasidhe

Above is a letter dated 1956 from The Dept. of Health confirming St Mary's, Tuam as registered as a maternity home under the Health Act 1953. The letter makes it clear that the home had also been registered under the Registration of Maternity Homes Act, 1934.

The letter makes it clear that the Institution had to be approved by the dept, would receive funds from the State and, of particular significance, that the Minister for Health had the power to revoke approval at any time should the circumstances warrant it.

The Minister for Health at the time was Tom O'Higgins . Born Cork 1916, died Dublin 2003.

In addition to being a being a member of a political dynasty, he was a Fine Gael TD (first elected 1948 for Leix-Offaly) and Minister, O'Higgins also was a barrister, FG Presidential candidate twice (losing to Dev by 1% in 1966, losing to Childers by 57,096 votes in 1973), High Court Judge and, as of 1974, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. In 1975, O'Higgins was appointed to the European Court of Justice where he sat until 1991.

Here we see the person who approved the 'maternity homes' later sitting as chief of the highest court in the land and finally a member of the only avenue available to those who felt they had been mistreated by the State.

What hope justice when the executive branch and the judicial branch are so inextricably intertwined?

Zubeneschamali

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The Minister for Health at the time was Tom O'Higgins ...losing to Childers by 57,096 votes in 1973

Irrelevant anecdote: I remember taking two posters of O'Higgins from the election, and cutting the eyes out of one. Then if you put the whole poster behind the cut one, you could make his eyes move and look around.

Well, I was only 8!

Nodin

List of death and recorded causes. I had to google the following.

Marasmus is a form of severe malnutrition characterized by energy deficiency. A child with marasmus looks emaciated. Body weight is reduced to less than 60% of the normal (expected) body weight for the age.[1] Marasmus occurrence increases prior to age 1, whereas kwashiorkor occurrence increases after 18 months. It can be distinguished from kwashiorkor in that kwashiorkor is protein deficiency with adequate energy intake whereas marasmus is inadequate energy intake in all forms, including protein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marasmus

Pertussis = whooping cough, apparently.

http://darkroom.sundayworld.com/orig...hs-records.pdf

Have to read through it more thoroughly later. "debility from birth" appears a few times, which is about as informative as saying 'sure he never looked right' as far as I can make out.

abaddon_ire

The Sindo has a list of all 796 names, DOD and cause of death today.

Bannasidhe

abaddon_ire wrote: »

The Sindo has a list of all 796 names, DOD and cause of death today.

It's here.

http://darkroom.sundayworld.com/original/ceb7e622d53f2b67bf1cd99228b41b57:276be5a65b9eb1f5777c83244dcbc798/tuam-deaths-records.pdf

aloyisious

Leo Varadkar & Steve Donnelly were on RTE radio discussing the banking inquiry and other matters for the past hour. The programme has just ended, with the interviewer asking them both last minute single questions about current affairs with short replies. Leo has possibly put his foot in it, re the Tuam affair. He said there were not eight hundred plus skeletons in a tank, and then ended "if any at all".

gctest50

Would it be fair to say some of the causes of death may have been "carefully entered" ?

On a regular basis, false causes of death, or none at all, were entered in the documentation prepared after the death of prisoners.

For example, the camp records state that the cause of death of St. Maximilian Kolbe was myocardia. The putative causes of the death of the underage prisoners Mieczysław Rycaj and Tadeusz Rycyk, killed by phenol injection on January 21, 1943, were bilateral pneumonia and septic pharyngitis.


In a statement as an expert forensic witness in 1946, Dr. Jan Olbrycht, a former prisoner, characterized the Auschwitz hospital records: “If it had not been for the defeat of Nazism, a detached observer studying the history of the prisoners’ sicknesses and the protocols of the treatment they received would conclude that the Auschwitz camp was a model of good sanitary, hygienic, and medical practice, and that prisoners received care that embodied the latest achievements of science and medicine. The death certificates issued for specific registered prisoners can serve as an example of the deliberate falsification of camp records, and should be a warning to young researchers, who should use all imaginable caution in drawing conclusions from those records.”

Akrasia

gctest50 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say some of the causes of death may have been "carefully entered" ?

An awful lot of untimely deaths and very few inquests

aloyisious

Akrasia wrote: »

An awful lot of untimely deaths and very few inquests

Does this mean there may be questions about the professional reputation of those signing-off on death certs, both doctors and state/local Govt officials?

Lisha

aloyisious wrote: »

Does this mean there may be questions about the professional reputation of those signing-off on death certs, both doctors and state/local Govt officials?

Yes I think so.

It also could be another sign that the majority in society colluded against those poor women and children. Treating these people as second class citizens really seems to have strengthened other peoples position in society.

When people feel superior to others, when they believe that other people are less than them it really brings out the worst in people.

abaddon_ire

gctest50 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say some of the causes of death may have been "carefully entered" ?

No. That is not yet determined.

The modus operandi observed in other cases indicates that it is likely, but no evidence is available to date.

Except for the few eyewitnesses still alive, if any. We do not have much to go on.

The fact is that "dying rooms" are a real thing and there is no reason to believe that this is any different.

abaddon_ire

aloyisious wrote: »

Leo Varadkar & Steve Donnelly were on RTE radio discussing the banking inquiry and other matters for the past hour. The programme has just ended, with the interviewer asking them both last minute single questions about current affairs with short replies. Leo has possibly put his foot in it, re the Tuam affair. He said there were not eight hundred plus skeletons in a tank, and then ended "if any at all".

Last year, I commented elswhere that the Emma Sloane would be lucky to have a report issued by May 2014. Here we are. In June.

Enquiries exist for only one one purpose. To bury truth. The 796 will go the way of every attempt to identify the horror of the RCC.

eire4

Lisha wrote: »

Yes I think so.

It also could be another sign that the majority in society colluded against those poor women and children. Treating these people as second class citizens really seems to have strengthened other peoples position in society.

When people feel superior to others, when they believe that other people are less than them it really brings out the worst in people.

You make a good point here. The sick, evil and inhumane behaviour of the church and the government collusion in all this is rightly been exposed. But the reality is the sick, repressive and puritanical society that was Ireland for most of the 20th century after independance was supported by and maintained by Irish people outside the church and the state as well.