Random Running Questions

JohnDozer · 03-05-2016 9:52am

https://www.facebook.com/AboveAverageProductions/videos/1078488708842056/

I'm in... Anyone else? :-D

demfad · 03-05-2016 11:00am

denis b wrote: »

What to do

Just returned to running last week following a 3 week absence with chest infection. Cleared to run again. I had just finished a Pfitzinger 12 week training programme for multiple distances and was on my race taper week for a 10km at the K Club. Obviously I missed that. Managed to walk every day during week 2 and 3 of the layoff and had completed a good training block last year culminating in the DCM. I have just started my second base building week to get my mileage back up before I get going again.

Question 1: I want to tap into the training block that I had just finished but am not sure how that should be done. Should I complete the 2 week base build up and then perhaps complete a week or two from the 10 km programme to get back up to speed. I know that it will take a few weeks to get completely back on track.

Question 2: When should I start to race again? Just to be clear this is not a medical question.

Many thanks.

Question 1:

I would consider doing maintenance sessions in the areas you were working on before the layoff. Say the paces the sessions were based on were 10k, LT, 5k, M pace: then take sessions from the 12 week block that you think you could complete now at those paces. Start with the area where you think you have lost least fitness.
Before you start do a session for leg turnover because youll need to brush up there. Something like 5 x 10s, 5 x 20s, 5 x 10s. All done comfortably.

Question 2.

I would do a race after those few sessions. But it would be strategic to shore up your fitness.
Either do a 5k very controlled and not at full effort.
Or start it with 2k at 10k effort, and then progress down.

After you have done all this (2-3 weeks) you should know where you are. If you liked the 12 week program pick a week that might look suitable to jump in. But don't jump in to that week, jump in 1-2 weeks before so that the week feels sustainable (and risk of getting run down diminished). This is actually the optimum way to train IMO.
Keep doing a race every 3-4 weeks but I would advise the slow start/controlled approach.
Youll know when you're ready for a full effort.

JohnDozer · 03-05-2016 7:22pm

Joined a club last year and didn't renew this year. Was thinking about changing clubs and left it till now. Went down this evening and they weren't able to tell me if I would have to go through transfer process or not. Awaiting the answer but just want to know I guess. I thought as an adult I could join any given club on any given year without having to transfer?

denis b · 03-05-2016 7:30pm

demfad wrote: »

Question 1:

I would consider doing maintenance sessions in the areas you were working on before the layoff. Say the paces the sessions were based on were 10k, LT, 5k, M pace: then take sessions from the 12 week block that you think you could complete now at those paces. Start with the area where you think you have lost least fitness.
Before you start do a session for leg turnover because youll need to brush up there. Something like 5 x 10s, 5 x 20s, 5 x 10s. All done comfortably.

Question 2.

I would do a race after those few sessions. But it would be strategic to shore up your fitness.
Either do a 5k very controlled and not at full effort.
Or start it with 2k at 10k effort, and then progress down.

After you have done all this (2-3 weeks) you should know where you are. If you liked the 12 week program pick a week that might look suitable to jump in. But don't jump in to that week, jump in 1-2 weeks before so that the week feels sustainable (and risk of getting run down diminished). This is actually the optimum way to train IMO.
Keep doing a race every 3-4 weeks but I would advise the slow start/controlled approach.
Youll know when you're ready for a full effort.

Cheers for that Demfad. That works well for me. Will do the Cooley Coast Race on the 20th and pace a decent effort along with a parkrun (controlled) in advance. Appreciate the input. Don't want to fall into my old trap of "just training" so some other objective input is welcome.

El Caballo · 03-05-2016 9:21pm

JohnDozer wrote: »

Joined a club last year and didn't renew this year. Was thinking about changing clubs and left it till now. Went down this evening and they weren't able to tell me if I would have to go through transfer process or not. Awaiting the answer but just want to know I guess. I thought as an adult I could join any given club on any given year without having to transfer?

Pretty sure if you were a member of a club in the past 3 years, you have to get a transfer. The windows are usually April and September I think.

JohnDozer · 03-05-2016 9:32pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Pretty sure if you were a member of a club in the past 3 years, you have to get a transfer. The windows are usually April and September I think.

Sound. That wasn't clear from some internet research. Does that mean I can register for the new club, submit a transfer request for next September, and consider myself a club member until it's official, or is it trickier than that? Realistically, I'm not going to be making any teams for cross country or anything...

Singer · 03-05-2016 10:53pm

How do you get better at hills?

I think I suffer more than most on hills, especially in races. Are there any specific non-running things to do that can help here? (strength training, etc.) Or is it just the case that I need to run more bloody hills in training?

El Caballo · 03-05-2016 11:03pm

Singer wrote: »

How do you get better at hills?

I think I suffer more than most on hills, especially in races. Are there any specific non-running things to do that can help here? (strength training, etc.) Or is it just the case that I need to run more bloody hills in training?

Run more hills! Honestly, I think it's as simple as that. I done a ton of hilly runs last year in the lead up to xc because I really was quite weak when it came to running them but by the end of the season, I was holding my own with everyone going up. Law of specifity and all that jargon, you become better at what you practice. S&C would be of benefit as well but if I had to just pick one, it would be running more hills at easy pace, tempo pace and even intervals to get those muscles working like they do in a race and strengthen them up.

Singer · 03-05-2016 11:19pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Run more hills! Honestly, I think it's as simple as that. I done a ton of hilly runs last year in the lead up to xc because I really was quite weak when it came to running them but by the end of the season, I was holding my own with everyone going up. Law of specifity and all that jargon, you become better at what you practice. S&C would be of benefit as well but if I had to just pick one, it would be running more hills at easy pace, tempo pace and even intervals to get those muscles working like they do in a race and strengthen them up.

Brute forcing things and avoiding non-running activities are definitely things I'm good at. The mountains of Swords will be conquered many times this year so.

Firedance · 04-05-2016 6:46am

Singer wrote: »

Brute forcing things and avoiding non-running activities are definitely things I'm good at. The mountains of Swords will be conquered many times this year so.

Take yourself off up to the lovely Ardgillan or howth singer, both offer perfect hill training - I'm not sure the gentle inclines of swords qualify

RayCun · 04-05-2016 7:27am

JohnDozer wrote: »

Sound. That wasn't clear from some internet research. Does that mean I can register for the new club, submit a transfer request for next September, and consider myself a club member until it's official, or is it trickier than that? Realistically, I'm not going to be making any teams for cross country or anything...

You're not officially a member of your new club until the transfer goes through

oldrunner · 04-05-2016 10:26am

JohnDozer wrote: »

Sound. That wasn't clear from some internet research. Does that mean I can register for the new club, submit a transfer request for next September, and consider myself a club member until it's official, or is it trickier than that? Realistically, I'm not going to be making any teams for cross country or anything...

Transfer form with rules on the back can be found at http://www.athleticsireland.ie/registration/

In summary, the process is (1) get the transfer form signed by both the new club and the old club in the transfer window (form must be submitted no later than 7 days before September 1 (2) new club submits the form to AAI (3) transfer is agreed by County board (4) there is a one month unattached period after the transfer deadline (the month of September) then you can compete for new club from 1 October.

JohnDozer · 04-05-2016 12:42pm

Appreciate the responses. I guess what I'm asking if I'm entering road races between now and September, should I leave the space for club name blank as I'm not a paid up member of the old one or an official member of the new one?

RayCun · 04-05-2016 12:53pm

JohnDozer wrote: »

Appreciate the responses. I guess what I'm asking if I'm entering road races between now and September, should I leave the space for club name blank as I'm not a paid up member of the old one or an official member of the new one?

If it's a county board or national championship race, you can't run as part of your new club's team.

If it is a standard road race that includes a team competition, you should be able to run as part of your new club's team. AFAIK these teams are not 'official'. If in doubt, contact the organising club.

If there's no team competition and you just want to note your new club's name on your entry, that's fine.

(for example, you often see triathlon clubs or paid-for-coaching-groups being named on entries)

JohnDozer · 04-05-2016 12:55pm

RayCun wrote: »

If it's a county board or national championship race, you can't run as part of your new club's team.

If it is a standard road race that includes a team competition, you should be able to run as part of your new club's team. AFAIK these teams are not 'official'. If in doubt, contact the organising club.

If there's no team competition and you just want to note your new club's name on your entry, that's fine.

(for example, you often see triathlon clubs or paid-for-coaching-groups being named on entries)

Perfect, thank you. So I can use it, just not where there is a team element that might complicate things for the club. And the parkrun profile of course...

05-05-2016 12:28pm

What are Tempo's and MP runs?

Having trouble with all the lingo

ultrapercy · 05-05-2016 12:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are Tempo's and MP runs?

Having trouble with all the lingo

Tempo has different meaning to different people but basically it's a continous run of 20 to 40 minutes at a pace you could hold for an hour of racing. So if you run 70 mins for 10 miles it's a little faster than 7 minute miling. MP is a marathon paced run, a run at the pace you CAN currently hold for 26.2 miles of racing as opposed to what you HOPE to run.

hot buttered scones · 05-05-2016 3:09pm

I have a question about training plans. Every plan I've looked at is based around a week, but my work "week" is 8 days long (i.e. 4 days on, 4 days off). If I was to take, for example, a 12 week trying plan and do it over 12 weeks + 12 days would it have the same training effect? I would probably take an extra rest day or recovery run. For a longer plan i.e. a 20 week marathon plan, I would be starting almost 3 weeks early. Would it really matter so long as I did all the planned workouts if I took more recovery?

davedanon · 05-05-2016 3:11pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I have a question about training plans. Every plan I've looked at is based around a week, but my work "week" is 8 days long (i.e. 4 days on, 4 days off). If I was to take, for example, a 12 week trying plan and do it over 12 weeks + 12 days would it have the same training effect? I would probably take an extra rest day or recovery run. For a longer plan i.e. a 20 week marathon plan, I would be starting almost 3 weeks early. Would it really matter so long as I did all the planned workouts if I took more recovery?

Some people train to a non-weekly schedule by choice. As in it might be 8 or 9 days instead of 7. The cycle can be any length, really, theoretically.

I'm no expert on the subject, though. Quite the opposite in fact.

05-05-2016 3:21pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Would it really matter so long as I did all the planned workouts if I took more recovery?

Yes. Expand it out: what if you worked a 14-day week, took an extra 7 days recovery, and took 24 weeks to do a 12 week program? Do you think you'd be as fit as if you did all the runs in the planned 12 weeks? You're better off amending the plan to have an 8-day cycle (or finding one that was created that way, they do exist)

demfad · 05-05-2016 3:28pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I have a question about training plans. Every plan I've looked at is based around a week, but my work "week" is 8 days long (i.e. 4 days on, 4 days off). If I was to take, for example, a 12 week trying plan and do it over 12 weeks + 12 days would it have the same training effect? I would probably take an extra rest day or recovery run. For a longer plan i.e. a 20 week marathon plan, I would be starting almost 3 weeks early. Would it really matter so long as I did all the planned workouts if I took more recovery?

Yes that might work. I notice that you also have a 4 day 'weekend'

If you're doing long working hours during the 4 days on then you're weekly work structure is significantly different which will alter your training week.
Can you fill us in on what your work week is like hours wise and how much running you get done in each of the 4 day blocks normally?

BeepBeep67 · 05-05-2016 3:30pm

I've also read about moving to a 9 day plan as a master runner, with 1 long run, 1 LT session and 1 Vo2max session with 2 days recovery between hard days. Probably becomes difficult when you either need to get up at 5 in the morning or knock out a 20 after work mid-week.

Edit: here it is: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/training-for-masters-runners,-part-1-the-extended-microcycle

DubOnHoliday · 05-05-2016 3:52pm

Singer wrote: »

Brute forcing things and avoiding non-running activities are definitely things I'm good at. The mountains of Swords will be conquered many times this year so.

Do a few IMRA races, there are a good few people traveling from Swords etc to races on a weekly basis if you need a lift. I would agree with the advice given already, there's no substitute for doing hills. The Leinster League races would be ideal, short enough with a bit of climb in each.

hot buttered scones · 05-05-2016 11:44pm

demfad wrote:

Yes that might work. I notice that you also have a 4 day 'weekend' If you're doing long working hours during the 4 days on then you're weekly work structure is significantly different which will alter your training week. Can you fill us in on what your work week is like hours wise and how much running you get done in each of the 4 day blocks normally?

My first day moves forward a day every week. I work 2 12 hour days 8 to 8. I'm rubbish at getting up early and try to schedule one of these days as a rest day and the other as general aerobic. In the summer I sometimes go out in the evening about 9pm. Then 2 12 hour nights 8 to 8. I can get a good session or long run in before the first night as I'm off all day. Sleep all day then until about 3pm. Generally head in an hour early on the 2nd night for either a general aerobic or tempo/intervals which I find ok. After the 2nd night I get about 4 hours sleep to reset the body clock. I like to get a recovery run in because I'm knackered. On the 3 full days off then I try and get the hardest session done including the long run and probably a tempo. I've runmuted a couple of times (anything from 15 to 13 miles) but it's only safe on certain stretches when the mornings get bright.
I'm averaging 40 mile a week for the year - more like 45 a week at the moment. I've been following the DCM 15 graduate plan and have followed other plans before - I generally try to just move the workouts around to suit my shift with enough recovery. Sometimes I go out a lunchtime but to be honest my lunch break isn't really long enough and I prefer to eat a hot meal as it's my only one of the day.

BeepBeep67 wrote:

I've also read about moving to a 9 day plan as a master runner, with 1 long run, 1 LT session and 1 Vo2max session with 2 days recovery between hard days. Probably becomes difficult when you either need to get up at 5 in the morning or knock out a 20 after work mid-week.

The difficulty for me is a 7 day plan has ended up with me getting up at 5am before a 12 hour shift to do a long run and knocking out a 22 miler after work at 8pm. Or skipping workouts because I didn't get up at 5am and despite all advice to the contrary tried to make up for lost time. I'll have look at that plan, thanks for the link.

ger664 · 06-05-2016 12:20am

Move your training to 8 days then. Most 7 Day cycles have 3 weekly sessions. Do those on First and last day off and the day between days and nights. Rest easy running CT or light S&C whenever you can fit it in on the work days.

Maximus Alexander · 06-05-2016 10:16am

This sounds like I'm talking the piss but... I have to go for a couple of drinks after work tonight as a colleague is leaving. I also have a short, easy run planned for this evening. Are there any drawbacks to doing this after a (literal) couple of pints?

adrian522 · 06-05-2016 10:39am

My advice would be to either do the run before the drinks or at lunchtime, or else have 2 non alcoholic drinks rather than 2 pints.

davedanon · 06-05-2016 10:40am

Personally I wouldn't worry about a couple of pints before a short easy run (4-5 miles?), but each to his own.

Maximus Alexander · 06-05-2016 10:47am

Aye, I should have done it at lunch but I left my gear at home.

Yeah it's only about 4 miles (6k), I was more wondering if having alcohol on board is likely to inhibit any training benefit and render it pointless or something along those lines. I know I'll be able for it.

walshb · 06-05-2016 10:48am

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

This sounds like I'm talking the piss but... I have to go for a couple of drinks after work tonight as a colleague is leaving. I also have a short, easy run planned for this evening. Are there any drawbacks to doing this after a (literal) couple of pints?

I can't imagine it being a nice experience. Depends on how alcohol affects you. Me: I wouldn't risk it, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to either. You are ingesting a toxin, and then you are stressing your heart and lungs. It just makes F all sense.

Random Running Questions

Comments