Random Running Questions

28064212

gramar wrote: »

Last Friday I did 5x1km repeats. Yesterday I did 8km at 90% of my max effort, the last 4km into a horrible wind. I'm going to go out at lunchtime, what should I do?

Run? :pac:

Seriously, that answer could be anything from a 30km with 20k at MP, to a 10x100m max effort, to a 5 minute jog, or anything in between. What does your plan say? What's the purpose of today's run?

aquinn

gramar wrote: »

Last Friday I did 5x1km repeats. Yesterday I did 8km at 90% of my max effort, the last 4km into a horrible wind. I'm going to go out at lunchtime, what should I do?

Run easy would be my guess.

gramar

28064212 wrote: »

Run? :pac:

Seriously, that answer could be anything from a 30km with 20k at MP, to a 10x100m max effort, to a 5 minute jog, or anything in between. What does your plan say? What's the purpose of today's run?

It won't be 30km anyway!

I don't have a plan as such. Each week I try for 3 runs...a 5km tempo-ish run. Some 1km or mile repeats and then a longer slower run 8/10km.

Yesterday was the longer/slower run but I went faster than a slow run would be. Overall goal is getting 5km time down to 21 or below.

RayCun

add a fourth run, at an easy pace

gramar

I'll take it easy so. Max 5:30km pace for 40/50 mins. Might be kinda warm too.

HigginsJ

How many miles should you use a pair of shoes for in training before using them in a race? i.e. do shoes really need a break in time?

If you are going to run a marathon should you definitely follow an established training plan or can you take one and wing it to a degree?

How long should you be running before considering a half or full marathon?

TheBigGreen

A Strava question -

Is there a way to view All-Time PRs on Strava app or desktop?

I see you can add them manually in the "My Profile" but surely it can be viewed automatically?

RayCun

HigginsJ wrote: »

How many miles should you use a pair of shoes for in training before using them in a race? i.e. do shoes really need a break in time?

What is your own experience? Do you find it takes a few runs for shoes to be comfortable, or are you happy going for a long run in a first wear?

I would err on the side of caution, you've nothing to lose by making sure you get a few runs into a new pair before using them in a race.

HigginsJ wrote: »

If you are going to run a marathon should you definitely follow an established training plan or can you take one and wing it to a degree?

As a beginner you should follow an established plan. When you have more experience you can wing it.

HigginsJ wrote: »

How long should you be running before considering a half or full marathon?

Well, one answer is "when you're as fast as you're going to get over 10,000m"

Assuming you don't want to wait that long :pac: you want to be in a position where you can handle the training demands without getting injured. But that obviously depends on your training plan, there's a difference between being fit enough for a 70 mile + programme and being fit enough for a run/walk get around programme.

If you follow a programme like the Hal Higdon Novice programme (as I did for my first) or the boardsie programme on the novices thread, I think it starts with about 20 miles/week and gets up to around 40 miles/week, over about 16 weeks? So you should be running 20-25 miles/week fairly regularly before you start the programme. If you are running less, the increase in distances is likely to wear you out and bring on injuries.

Maximus Alexander

TheBigGreen wrote: »

A Strava question -

Is there a way to view All-Time PRs on Strava app or desktop?

I see you can add them manually in the "My Profile" but surely it can be viewed automatically?

On the website it shows "Estimated Best Efforts" underneath your All-Time PRs, which is the best time it has seen you do in your activity data. Obviously these won't match your official race times. They are an automated 'best guess'. Not sure if these can be viewed in the app.



(I wonder if the Boards user whose PBs I stole for this can spot their own times :pac:)

HigginsJ

RayCun wrote: »

What is your own experience? Do you find it takes a few runs for shoes to be comfortable, or are you happy going for a long run in a first wear?

I would err on the side of caution, you've nothing to lose by making sure you get a few runs into a new pair before using them in a race.

This is the 1st pair that I have invested in specifically for running so I don't have any experience per say to go on. Will wear my old shoes for my race so this week, will try to build up a few longer runs on the new ones.

RayCun wrote: »

As a beginner you should follow an established plan. When you have more experience you can wing it.

RayCun wrote: »

Well, one answer is "when you're as fast as you're going to get over 10,000m"

Assuming you don't want to wait that long :pac: you want to be in a position where you can handle the training demands without getting injured. But that obviously depends on your training plan, there's a difference between being fit enough for a 70 mile + programme and being fit enough for a run/walk get around programme.

If you follow a programme like the Hal Higdon Novice programme (as I did for my first) or the boardsie programme on the novices thread, I think it starts with about 20 miles/week and gets up to around 40 miles/week, over about 16 weeks? So you should be running 20-25 miles/week fairly regularly before you start the programme. If you are running less, the increase in distances is likely to wear you out and bring on injuries.

Thanks, alot of the established plans calling for that high mileage per week look very daunting, although that is probably more a reflection on me more than the plans themselves.

Singer

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

(I wonder if the Boards user whose PBs I stole for this can spot their own times :pac:)

The Nike+ app on my phone appears to be somewhat optimistic, I've since moved on to a Garmin.

mel.b

How long do you give a new pair of shoes before you decide they aren't right? Got a pair mon night, did 7km yesterday & 10 this evening. Sides of feet, parts of the ball of foot are burning, bottom of one toe on one foot and near knuckle (do you still call them knuckles evenbthough they're on your feet?!) is sore. I'm starting to think they are half a size too small or too narrow anyway. Feet are in bits during the run but they were fine while wearing them walking around all day.

SmallTeapot

@Mel - I'm not an expert by any means, and very much a novice runner, but I noted from your log that you're wearing the same runners as me - Asics Gel Cumulus 17 (mine are neon pink! )

I upgraded to them about 6 weeks ago from Nike lunars (I think they were lunars?!). Anyhow, before I purchased, I went to Elverys to get a feel for Asics sizing, which I had heard/ read are oftentimes not true to size. Sure enough, when I tried on my own size, I could barely get them on. I then tried a half size up....which felt like my true size.

The selection in Elverys-Intersport was quite limited, so I purchased online and opted for a full size up (as I wanted plenty of room in the toe-box). On arrival, I checked the soles and insoles against my other runners and reckon they're essentially a half size bigger than my usual size.

I still wear Nike runners on a daily basis and always wear my own size; however, I felt the Asics, which I use only for running, are comfortable one size up. They don't seem vastly bigger...l in fact, they feel like they're my actual size - just my toes have a cm or so more space. They're a little heavier than what I'm used to, but find the cushioning outweighs this for longer stretches.

In terms of break-in time: I wore them for about a week walking before trying them running. The first run, they were slightly stiff but suppled out after that.

HTH

If you've any more questions, feel free to fire them my way

Clearlier

mel.b wrote: »

How long do you give a new pair of shoes before you decide they aren't right? Got a pair mon night, did 7km yesterday & 10 this evening. Sides of feet, parts of the ball of foot are burning, bottom of one toe on one foot and near knuckle (do you still call them knuckles evenbthough they're on your feet?!) is sore. I'm starting to think they are half a size too small or too narrow anyway. Feet are in bits during the run but they were fine while wearing them walking around all day.

Sometimes it's obvious - I've one pair of runners that I wore twice - and sometimes it's a little more subtle. If you're wearing thick socks for running it might be worth trying a thin pair to see if that helps.

mel.b

SmallTeapot wrote: »

@Mel - I'm not an expert by any means, and very much a novice runner, but I noted from your log that you're wearing the same runners as me - Asics Gel Cumulus 17 (mine are neon pink! )

I upgraded to them about 6 weeks ago from Nike lunars (I think they were lunars?!). Anyhow, before I purchased, I went to Elverys to get a feel for Asics sizing, which I had heard/ read are oftentimes not true to size. Sure enough, when I tried on my own size, I could barely get them on. I then tried a half size up....which felt like my true size.

The selection in Elverys-Intersport was quite limited, so I purchased online and opted for a full size up (as I wanted plenty of room in the toe-box). On arrival, I checked the soles and insoles against my other runners and reckon they're essentially a half size bigger than my usual size.

I still wear Nike runners on a daily basis and always wear my own size; however, I felt the Asics, which I use only for running, are comfortable one size up. They don't seem vastly bigger...l in fact, they feel like they're my actual size - just my toes have a cm or so more space. They're a little heavier than what I'm used to, but find the cushioning outweighs this for longer stretches.

In terms of break-in time: I wore them for about a week walking before trying them running. The first run, they were slightly stiff but suppled out after that.

HTH

If you've any more questions, feel free to fire them my way

Thanks smallteapot. I tried on the Ascis, but they were actually too cushioned for my foot, so went with the Saucony Guide 9 instead. Good idea to compare the size of the insoles, although I have always suspected that my Mizuno's were slightly too big so I don't know how much help that will be!

mel.b

Clearlier wrote: »

Sometimes it's obvious - I've one pair of runners that I wore twice - and sometimes it's a little more subtle. If you're wearing thick socks for running it might be worth trying a thin pair to see if that helps.

Thanks. I'm wearing standard asicis running socks. Any suggestions for thin running socks as opposed to just normal socks? Cheaper to buy a new pair of socks and try that compared to getting a new pair of shoes!

Killarney is less than a month away so if these are no good I'm going to have to make a call on it soon.

Edit: Just compared the insoles of the Mizuno to the Saucony. The Mizuno is definitely a tiny bit longer and bit wider. The saucony are a size 8 and the Mizuno a 7.5

Clearlier

mel.b wrote: »

Thanks. I'm wearing standard asicis running socks. Any suggestions for thin running socks as opposed to just normal socks? Cheaper to buy a new pair of socks and try that compared to getting a new pair of shoes!

Killarney is less than a month away so if these are no good I'm going to have to make a call on it soon.

Edit: Just compared the insoles of the Mizuno to the Saucony. The Mizuno is definitely a tiny bit longer and bit wider. The saucony are a size 8 and the Mizuno a 7.5

I'd just wear any pair of thin socks that you have and see how you get on. If you really want running ones then you can get them after you've ascertained that thin socks solve the problem.

You're right about needing to make a decision soon. Chances are that you'll need a new pair but it's probably worth trying the thin socks given the cost implications.

mel.b

Thanks Clearier and Firedance (whose post seems to have disappeared). I got some thin socks in Pennys last night (the lotto brand ones) and went for a short 5.5k run this morning. Big improvement, no pain, only a slight niggle under one toe so i'm calling that a success. Will give them a go on a longer run tomorrow before deciding if i try them on my long run in Sunday, but fingers crossed.

Firedance

mel.b wrote: »

Thanks Clearier and Firedance (whose post seems to have disappeared). I got some thin socks in Pennys last night (the lotto brand ones) and went for a short 5.5k run this morning. Big improvement, no pain, only a slight niggle under one toe so i'm calling that a success. Will give them a go on a longer run tomorrow before deciding if i try them on my long run in Sunday, but fingers crossed.

I went in on my phone to edit it and deleted it instead :rolleyes: I didn't bother retyping it then.

glad to hear the socks worked, hopefully that's all it was.

HigginsJ

I have been reading a few of the training logs and see people use smart watches as training aids (i.e. they help you manage your pace) & the likes of heart rate monitors and running in zones etc.

In terms of training effectiveness is this a far superior way to train over simply running to a desired effort level by feel?

Do people then use the smart watches/hrm's to pace their races etc?

jameshayes

HigginsJ wrote: »

I have been reading a few of the training logs and see people use smart watches as training aids (i.e. they help you manage your pace) & the likes of heart rate monitors and running in zones etc.

In terms of training effectiveness is this a far superior way to train over simply running to a desired effort level by feel?

Do people then use the smart watches/hrm's to pace their races etc?

You're going to get answers from every end of the spectrum on this topic i'd say...

personally, I dont think I could run without my watch - it gives me the kick I need when I'm running slow or tells me to slow down if I'm running too fast. I also love the stats that you can view after a run on Strava(and alike), I spend ages looking at my runs online after i'm done - but I'm sure there are people out there that will be saying "no, listen to your body" "perceived effort" etc etc

I have a bog standard TomTom Runner Cardio that I got for 50 euro online & a HRM that I got from Amazon.

Battery Kinzie

HigginsJ wrote: »

I have been reading a few of the training logs and see people use smart watches as training aids (i.e. they help you manage your pace) & the likes of heart rate monitors and running in zones etc.

In terms of training effectiveness is this a far superior way to train over simply running to a desired effort level by feel?

Do people then use the smart watches/hrm's to pace their races etc?

I wouldn't say they are 'far superior', and I think their effectiveness will vary from person to person.

For me, I feel that my training has been a lot better since I got a HRM. This was mainly due to beginner me convincing myself that what I was doing was an easy pace, when in reality it was too fast. So in that sense, the HRM has helped me slow down and keep my pace in check, which has since allowed me to run more and thus making me faster.

If you feel that you are OK to run by feel and think you are experienced enough to know which paces correspond to which effort 'zones', then I'd say you're good without the HRM (though it could still prove to be advantageous). Otherwise, it is definitely something to consider getting imo (though I am a bit of a 'data' guy so I was always going to like having the extra info from a HRM).

At the least though, I do think a GPS watch would be a good idea for you to get if you don't have one. They can be got quite cheap (e.g. garmin forerunner 10) and are good for keeping track of your runs more accurately and easily.

RayCun

HigginsJ wrote: »

I have been reading a few of the training logs and see people use smart watches as training aids (i.e. they help you manage your pace) & the likes of heart rate monitors and running in zones etc.

In terms of training effectiveness is this a far superior way to train over simply running to a desired effort level by feel?

Do people then use the smart watches/hrm's to pace their races etc?

A lot of people are pretty bad at running by feel, and run their easy runs too hard. (Then again, plenty of people ignore the pace reading on their watch when it tells them to slow down too )

In a race... that's a big subject. There's an argument to be made that people let themselves be limited by watches, rather than running to their limits. And certainly in championship races (or XC races in general) you race your opponents, not a clock. Against that, there is the same argument that people are often bad at judging their effort levels, and when you are racing the clock the additional feedback from knowing your pace can help you pace yourself better. (I think most people on here who use HR in training don't use it in races)

But what we can all agree on, surely, is that if you do have a watch that monitors your pace/HR, you must never ever turn on pace/HR alerts in a race*. We do not all need to know that you have dropped below your target pace or exceeded your target HR.

*possible exception if you are pacing the race

HigginsJ

Thanks for the responses all, definitely want to get a smart watch (won't be for another month or 2 due to holidays) as it is a pain in the rear having to carry my phone in my hand when running.

Love a bit of data analysis myself so could easily become addicted to that side of it. I know for sure that my run last night was too hard and feeling it a bit today so could be good aid to help me along with the likes of recovery runs.

Singer

HigginsJ wrote: »

Thanks for the responses all, definitely want to get a smart watch (won't be for another month or 2 due to holidays) as it is a pain in the rear having to carry my phone in my hand when running.

Love a bit of data analysis myself so could easily become addicted to that side of it. I know for sure that my run last night was too hard and feeling it a bit today so could be good aid to help me along with the likes of recovery runs.

Up until the start of this year I just used my phone, and it was fine. I used the Nike+ app to keep track of my runs and so I could keep track of my pace etc. in realtime. There's no need to carry your phone in your hand - I've used a arm band thing, a Flipbelt and simply putting it in a pocket (works ok in some shorts). I found the Flipbelt the best way to carry a phone, keys etc. around while running, and is what I used to carry my phone during last year's Dublin Marathon.

Check out the "Is my smartphone enough" section in this article:
http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-running-watch/

HigginsJ

Singer wrote: »

Up until the start of this year I just used my phone, and it was fine. I used the Nike+ app to keep track of my runs and so I could keep track of my pace etc. in realtime. There's no need to carry your phone in your hand - I've used a arm band thing, a Flipbelt and simply putting it in a pocket (works ok in some shorts). I found the Flipbelt the best way to carry a phone, keys etc. around while running, and is what I used to carry my phone during last year's Dublin Marathon.

Check out the "Is my smartphone enough" section in this article:
http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-running-watch/

Yea I use Map My Run which does the job (& will continue to do so for the time being). I like to glance at the phone from time to time to see how I'm doing do not sure how that would work with one of those arm bands.

The Muppet

HigginsJ wrote: »

Yea I use Map My Run which does the job (& will continue to do so for the time being). I like to glance at the phone from time to time to see how I'm doing do not sure how that would work with one of those arm bands.

you could wear headphone to hear the data as you run if you had the phone in an armband, that said I think the watch is the best option in the long term.

Louise40

Did 10k race tonight in 49.01. Currently training for half marathon in end of sept. Hoping to do 1:45. Is it possible?? Currently running 5 days a week. Mileage 32-35 miles. Long run Saturday 13 miles, 5 miles easy sunday, track session Tuesday, 5 miles easy Wednesday, 6 miles thur including 4 at tempo pace approx 750/mile. If u v any ideas to get me to 1:45 I d really appreciate it!!

tailgunner

Louise40 wrote: »

Did 10k race tonight in 49.01. Currently training for half marathon in end of sept. Hoping to do 1:45. Is it possible?? Currently running 5 days a week. Mileage 32-35 miles. Long run Saturday 13 miles, 5 miles easy sunday, track session Tuesday, 5 miles easy Wednesday, 6 miles thur including 4 at tempo pace approx 750/mile. If u v any ideas to get me to 1:45 I d really appreciate it!!

Earlier this year, I ran a 10k in 48:20 (fast course) and a half marathon in 1:49:36 four weeks later (not so fast course, and my endurance wouldn't be the best).

For a 1:45 half, I think you'd need to be running very close to 47 minutes for 10k by the end of August. That's a tough ask, but not necessarily impossible.

Your training looks similar to what I was doing, although you're doing more mileage. If I was doing it again, I'd try and incorporate more running at half marathon pace. You could do it as a longer session on its own (maybe instead of the tempo), or add in a few HMP miles towards the end of your long run.

I'm far from an expert, but hopefully that gives you some ideas!

demfad

Louise40 wrote: »

Did 10k race tonight in 49.01. Currently training for half marathon in end of sept. Hoping to do 1:45. Is it possible?? Currently running 5 days a week. Mileage 32-35 miles. Long run Saturday 13 miles, 5 miles easy sunday, track session Tuesday, 5 miles easy Wednesday, 6 miles thur including 4 at tempo pace approx 750/mile. If u v any ideas to get me to 1:45 I d really appreciate it!!

Hi Louise. Well done in the race, great time!
You need to run the HM at a constant strong-ish pace for the distance. To have the right endurance for that you need to be doing runs that are longish and fastish. The 4 mile tempo will give you some endurance and help lower your LT, but it wont make you strong enough to last half of the race.

My take would be similar to tailgunners.

Most of the difficulty will be in holding pace for the second half.
The mindset would be: what training do I need to do to run the 2nd half of the race on pace? When you look at it this way you can see that the first half would take care of itself.

You can get the required endurance by:
Alternating the tempo with a longer one say 5% slower than HM pace, say starting at 8:20 for 45mins. Add 10 mins per run.
Adding faster portions to the end of your LSR. Start with 15 mins at the pace mentioned. You can extend this by 5 min per run and as you get closer even progress the pace at the very end of the run to HM pace.

I would see endurance as much more important so focus on the long sessions.
The track session (what is it typically?), wont help your HM enough to warrant it done weekly so I would again swap in a longer tempo there on alternating weeks. You can do strides to replace it on those weeks.

Strenght is important as mentioned so mileage is relevant.
You can increase it by adding a mile per week to an easy run.
Also if feeling stiff on Friday an easy (very easy) 20 jog will help speed up recovery and give you a few extra miles.

Edit: As you get closer to the race gradually add more HMP miles to long run and sessions as tailgunner suggests.
(So you could could swap a tempo out for the HMP session and add HMP miles to the long runs)
What I suggest would prepare you for what tailgunner suggests in other words.