Random Running Questions

Itziger

ariana` wrote: »

When doing a session with a mix of hard/easy ks, does it matter how 'easy' the easy ks are? ? So i did a session at the weekend (1k easy, 1k @ 5k pace) x 3 and i wonder if my easy Ks should have been a little bit harder than they were iykwim

KM1: 5:43
KM2: 4:50
KM3: 6:16
KM4: 4:54
KM5: 6:27
KM6: 4:55

Thanks

Here's my tuppence worth. (I'm guessing you're going for sub 20 5k, or a bit faster) Anyway, I'd say the pace of the E bits is ok, what I'd do is cut down the distance of them. I think you'd be better off doing 500 metre E. I'm no coach though. As you gain fitness and feel stronger, maybe bring the E down again.

Clearlier

ariana` wrote: »

When doing a session with a mix of hard/easy ks, does it matter how 'easy' the easy ks are? ? So i did a session at the weekend (1k easy, 1k @ 5k pace) x 3 and i wonder if my easy Ks should have been a little bit harder than they were iykwim

KM1: 5:43
KM2: 4:50
KM3: 6:16
KM4: 4:54
KM5: 6:27
KM6: 4:55

Thanks

Fast twitch need lots of slowish recovery, slow twitch can do recovery running a lot faster.

What's the purpose of the session though?

ariana`

Itziger wrote: »

Here's my tuppence worth. (I'm guessing you're going for sub 20 5k, or a bit faster) Anyway, I'd say the pace of the E bits is ok, what I'd do is cut down the distance of them. I think you'd be better off doing 500 metre E. I'm no coach though. As you gain fitness and feel stronger, maybe bring the E down again.

Thanks i was wondering about the length of the recovery alright, there are some sessions in the coming weeks such as 6 x 400 with 90 seconds recovery. 5k pb is 24:53, sub 20 5k is a dream, i'd settle for sub 24

Clearlier wrote: »

Fast twitch need lots of slowish recovery, slow twitch can do recovery running a lot faster.

What's the purpose of the session though?

Clearlier i'm following a 10k improver plan. The plan doesn't specify the exact purpose of each session.

Itziger

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks i was wondering about the length of the recovery alright, there are some sessions in the coming weeks such as 6 x 400 with 90 seconds recovery. 5k pb is 24:53, sub 20 5k is a dream, i'd settle for sub 24



Clearlier i'm following a 10k improver plan. The plan doesn't specify the exact purpose of each session.

Oooops, My mistake. Back to the Maths drawing board for me.

The rec time still looks too long though.

Clearlier

ariana` wrote: »

Clearlier i'm following a 10k improver plan. The plan doesn't specify the exact purpose of each session.

Fair enough. It's better to err on the side of being too slow than too fast for the recovery portion. If becomes a finer art as you get more experienced but for the moment at least I'd say that you're doing fine and to just carry on as you are.

Halloween Jack

Does anybody run as part of a team in the bhaa? Guy in work asked me to join, seems like a bit of fun. im pretty slow but he says there's some sort of handicap system?

IvoryTower

I have a friend who just finished c25k. she doesn't want to join a club just yet but hoping she will down the line.

I want to give her some simple plan advice so she doesn't injure herself

Would this suffice, say 3 day week plan, keeping it as simple as possible for now.

Tues - tempo run(solid hard run for about 3-4k?)
Thurs - 1k repeats (there's a pitch beside her house with 1k marked out)
Weekend - lsr (start with 5k build up to about 10?)

What do you think? I know now she's doing all hard runs as you do when you start out

pconn062

IvoryTower wrote: »

I have a friend who just finished c25k. she doesn't want to join a club just yet but hoping she will down the line.

I want to give her some simple plan advice so she doesn't injure herself

Would this suffice, say 3 day week plan, keeping it as simple as possible for now.

Tues - tempo run(solid hard run for about 3-4k?)
Thurs - 1k repeats (there's a pitch beside her house with 1k marked out)
Weekend - lsr (start with 5k build up to about 10?)

What do you think? I know now she's doing all hard runs as you do when you start out

Someone at that level should concentrate on getting 40-50 mins done comfortably 3-4 days a week before worrying about tempo/speed work. All of that is done at a slow, conversational pace with maybe the addition of strides added onto two of the runs for a bit of speed. So if she can run 30 mins 3 days a week now add two or three mins to each of those runs each week and build up from there.

IvoryTower

pconn062 wrote: »

Someone at that level should concentrate on getting 40-50 mins done comfortably 3-4 days a week before worrying about tempo/speed work. All of that is done at a slow, conversational pace with maybe the addition of strides added onto to of the runs for a bit of speed. So is she can run 30 mins 3 days a week now add two or three mins to each of those ribs each week and build up from there.

Thanks pconn that'll do perfect

HigginsJ

IvoryTower wrote: »

I have a friend who just finished c25k. she doesn't want to join a club just yet but hoping she will down the line.

I want to give her some simple plan advice so she doesn't injure herself

Would this suffice, say 3 day week plan, keeping it as simple as possible for now.

Tues - tempo run(solid hard run for about 3-4k?)
Thurs - 1k repeats (there's a pitch beside her house with 1k marked out)
Weekend - lsr (start with 5k build up to about 10?)

What do you think? I know now she's doing all hard runs as you do when you start out

Get the couch to 10k app and start it at week 8 (which is where C25K leaves off). There is another 6 weeks then that takes up to nearly running for 50 minutes I think.

Battery Kinzie

When running an out and back race with a strong tailwind in the first half and then a strong headwind coming back in, how would you adjust your pacing? Still try to run even enough splits, or try make use of the tailwind on the way out.

Enduro

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

When running an out and back race with a strong tailwind in the first half and then a strong headwind coming back in, how would you adjust your pacing? Still try to run even enough splits, or try make use of the tailwind on the way out.

Negative split by effort. Hills, weather, terraine can all be factors which would mean that the times wouldn't necessarily reflect the effort. But its the effort which is the key point. Times are just a shorthand notation for effort which will be accurate in the majority of cases in general in this area.

BeepBeep67

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

When running an out and back race with a strong tailwind in the first half and then a strong headwind coming back in, how would you adjust your pacing? Still try to run even enough splits, or try make use of the tailwind on the way out.

You will always lose time vs effort in those conditions so plan accordingly.
Think of it this way, if it was a 10 mile race and you could normally run at 10mph and the wind was to have a 10% impact.
You would in theory run the first 5 miles @ 11mph (5:27 min/ml) 27:15 and the return at 9mph (6:40 min/ml) 33:20.
The difference being you run at the slower pace for longer than the faster pace.

You can use this to your advantage when racing, making sure you are benefiting from the wind when it's behind by stepping out from the pack and working as group or taking shelter when it's against.

Battery Kinzie

Cheers both, good points.

Bananaleaf

Hi all

Just a quick question about injury/soreness after running.

Can give more detail if needed but will keep it short by sticking to the question:

Have done 3 10ks now at this stage. I train for them, stretch before, rest before, stretch loads after.

After the race and the next day my hip flexor (in partcular my right hip flexor) is stiff/sore. I stretch it out more and usually go for a swim/sauna day after the race and it's gone by the third day.

Just checking that it is normal to feel a bit of discomfort like that after a long run (for me 10k is long atm) or is it a sign that I am either not stretching enough or have a weak hip?

Don't laugh please if that is a stupid question!! I genuinely don't know and don't want to end up with an injury. Thanks

Bananaleaf

Dubgal72

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi all

Just a quick question about injury/soreness after running.

Can give more detail if needed but will keep it short by sticking to the question:

Have done 3 10ks now at this stage. I train for them, stretch before, rest before, stretch loads after.

After the race and the next day my hip flexor (in partcular my right hip flexor) is stiff/sore. I stretch it out more and usually go for a swim/sauna day after the race and it's gone by the third day.

Just checking that it is normal to feel a bit of discomfort like that after a long run (for me 10k is long atm) or is it a sign that I am either not stretching enough or have a weak hip?

Don't laugh please if that is a stupid question!! I genuinely don't know and don't want to end up with an injury. Thanks

Bananaleaf

Hi Bananaleaf, no such thing as a stupid question No harm going to see a physiotherapist or physical therapist for a checkover. A tight hip flexor could be caused by a number of things.

Pre-hab is better than rehab! Best of luck.

Battery Kinzie

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi all

Just a quick question about injury/soreness after running.

Can give more detail if needed but will keep it short by sticking to the question:

Have done 3 10ks now at this stage. I train for them, stretch before, rest before, stretch loads after.

After the race and the next day my hip flexor (in partcular my right hip flexor) is stiff/sore. I stretch it out more and usually go for a swim/sauna day after the race and it's gone by the third day.

Just checking that it is normal to feel a bit of discomfort like that after a long run (for me 10k is long atm) or is it a sign that I am either not stretching enough or have a weak hip?

Don't laugh please if that is a stupid question!! I genuinely don't know and don't want to end up with an injury. Thanks

Bananaleaf

I wouldn't necessarily say it's 'normal', but at the same time it's nothing to worry too much about if it's going away after a few days with some stretching. It's probably just a bit of a weakness, so I'd definitely start working on strengthening it a bit. The Myrtle routine is the standard exercise for hips. I'd imagine if you did that once or twice a week for a few weeks you'd notice a big difference.

Bananaleaf

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say it's 'normal', but at the same time it's nothing to worry too much about if it's going away after a few days with some stretching. It's probably just a bit of a weakness, so I'd definitely start working on strengthening it a bit. The Myrtle routine is the standard exercise for hips. I'd imagine if you did that once or twice a week for a few weeks you'd notice a big difference.

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi Bananaleaf, no such thing as a stupid question No harm going to see a physiotherapist or physical therapist for a checkover. A tight hip flexor could be caused by a number of things.

Pre-hab is better than rehab! Best of luck.

Thank you both for your very helpful replies.

I always find the Athletics forum to be so helpful. It's the main reason I am still active on boards

Will start with the Myrtle routine so - I have another run in December (maybe too soon to notice results?) so I will see how I am after that having done the Myrtle routine until then and then I may pursue the physio

Thank you guys!

TFBubendorfer

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Have done 3 10ks now at this stage. I train for them, stretch before, rest before, stretch loads after.

If anything, you are stretching too much.

You should not stretch before running. It weakens the muscle, negatively affects performance and increases injury risk.

At least that's true for static stretching, though that is 90%$ of the stretching I see at races. I have no idea why people are doing that. There is no upside to it.

Bananaleaf

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If anything, you are stretching too much.

You should not stretch before running. It weakens the muscle, negatively affects performance and increases injury risk.

At least that's true for static stretching, though that is 90%$ of the stretching I see at races. I have no idea why people are doing that. There is no upside to it.

I didn't know this! Thank you for that.

jamule

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If anything, you are stretching too much.

You should not stretch before running. It weakens the muscle, negatively affects performance and increases injury risk.

At least that's true for static stretching, though that is 90%$ of the stretching I see at races. I have no idea why people are doing that. There is no upside to it.

One of the great mysterious of running

HigginsJ

Trying to decide between the Polar M200 & M400. The M200 has wrist based heart rate monitoring & seems to have most the same features of the M400 aside from running cadence. There are a few other features like training load, recovery & polars fitness test that dont come with the M200 that come with the M400. The M200 is about €15 cheaper but if you were to buy a HRM for the M400 it would be probably closer to €70 difference.

I think the M200 is a better looking device.

So is the wrist based HRM worth more than features like cadence & other features?

jameshayes

HigginsJ wrote: »

Trying to decide between the Polar M200 & M400. The M200 has wrist based heart rate monitoring & seems to have most the same features of the M400 aside from running cadence. There are a few other features like training load, recovery & polars fitness test that dont come with the M200 that come with the M400. The M200 is about €15 cheaper but if you were to buy a HRM for the M400 it would be probably closer to €70 difference.

I think the M200 is a better looking device.

So is the wrist based HRM worth more than features like cadence & other features?

I was going to reply and suggest the garmin 235 as it has wrist based HRM and cadence but I just seen the m400 is only £110 with the HRM strap on amazon, thats an amazing price. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Polar-M400-GPS-Watch-Monitor/dp/B00OBZKT2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479730718&sr=8-1&keywords=polar+m200

ariana`

Can any tell me what the difference should be between 'easy' pace and 'lsr' pace. At the moment i do 'easy' runs in a group, we chat as we go, i don't break any kind of sweat and it feels just that 'easy'. I do my lsr on my own, it's still a very comfortable pace but it's a always faster than my 'easy' runs, about 30 seconds per mile faster on average, i try to slow it down but i think being on my own my tendency is to go that bit quicker.

BeepBeep67

ariana` wrote: »

Can any tell me what the difference should be between 'easy' pace and 'lsr' pace. At the moment i do 'easy' runs in a group, we chat as we go, i don't break any kind of sweat and it feels just that 'easy'. I do my lsr on my own, it's still a very comfortable pace but it's a always faster than my 'easy' runs, about 30 seconds per mile faster on average, i try to slow it down but i think being on my own my tendency is to go that bit quicker.

Try this http://www.runningprs.com/calc2/index.php but listen to your body

ariana`

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Try this http://www.runningprs.com/calc2/index.php but listen to your body

The problem BeepBeep is that i'm not really sure what i'm supposed to be listening to my body for I had a look at the training paces on that link. The slowest 4 paces are Very Easy, Easy, Easy Moderate, and Moderate. I think my 'Easy' runs fall into the 'Easy Moderate' pace. And my LSR falls into 'Moderate'. Would i be right in thinking that i'm doing it backwards and LSR should in fact be slower than 'Easy'? Or am i over-thinking this

tony1980

ariana` wrote: »

The problem BeepBeep is that i'm not really sure what i'm supposed to be listening to my body for I had a look at the training paces on that link. The slowest 4 paces are Very Easy, Easy, Easy Moderate, and Moderate. I think my 'Easy' runs fall into the 'Easy Moderate' pace. And my LSR falls into 'Moderate'. Would i be right in thinking that i'm doing it backwards and LSR should in fact be slower than 'Easy'? Or am i over-thinking this

I'm no expert but during training for DCM 2016, I was undering the impression that Easy running was 30-45 seconds slower than planned marathon pace and lsr pace was about 90 seconds slower than marathon pace, so, yes, lsr would be slower than easy pace. LSR been long slow run.

davedanon

ariana` wrote: »

Can any tell me what the difference should be between 'easy' pace and 'lsr' pace. At the moment i do 'easy' runs in a group, we chat as we go, i don't break any kind of sweat and it feels just that 'easy'. I do my lsr on my own, it's still a very comfortable pace but it's a always faster than my 'easy' runs, about 30 seconds per mile faster on average, i try to slow it down but i think being on my own my tendency is to go that bit quicker.

In my humble opinion, I think you have it about right. Given the following caveats. IF you're in marathon training, then the lsr isn't just a longer recovery run (which are run at easy pace), it's effectively your third session of the week. I'm assuming here that A) you are in marathon training, and that you are doing at least one session during the week, and possibly two. The easy-paced runs, therefore, are the recovery runs the day after a session. They are run at an un-taxing pace, whatever that might be given the rigours of the previous day's session. If you want to put a figure on it, at least 90 seconds slower than MP, and give yourself an extra 20-30 seconds if need be. There's NO pace imperative on a recovery run.

On the other hand, the long run, as I said before, isn't just a longer recovery run. It should be a bit sharper and nippier, because it is a session just like your tempo/interval/speedwork stuff. This time, I would put a figure on it: about a minute a mile slower than MP, although again use a range rather than a specific target. Say 15-20 seconds per mile. So your long run would be run at between 60-80 seconds slower than MP. As I said. I think you have it about right. Oh, and the 'range' of paces thing is essentially the same thing as 'listen to the body'.

ariana`

davedanon wrote: »

In my humble opinion, I think you have it about right. Given the following caveats. IF you're in marathon training, then the lsr isn't just a longer recovery run (which are run at easy pace), it's effectively your third session of the week. I'm assuming here that A) you are in marathon training, and that you are doing at least one session during the week, and possibly two. The easy-paced runs, therefore, are the recovery runs the day after a session. They are run at an un-taxing pace, whatever that might be given the rigours of the previous day's session. If you want to put a figure on it, at least 90 seconds slower than MP, and give yourself an extra 20-30 seconds if need be. There's NO pace imperative on a recovery run.

On the other hand, the long run, as I said before, isn't just a longer recovery run. It should be a bit sharper and nippier, because it is a session just like your tempo/interval/speedwork stuff. This time, I would put a figure on it: about a minute a mile slower than MP, although again use a range rather than a specific target. Say 15-20 seconds per mile. So your long run would be run at between 60-80 seconds slower than MP. As I said. I think you have it about right. Oh, and the 'range' of paces thing is essentially the same thing as 'listen to the body'.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense even to a complete rookie like me

HigginsJ

jameshayes wrote: »

I was going to reply and suggest the garmin 235 as it has wrist based HRM and cadence but I just seen the m400 is only £110 with the HRM strap on amazon, thats an amazing price. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Polar-M400-GPS-Watch-Monitor/dp/B00OBZKT2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479730718&sr=8-1&keywords=polar+m200

Thats a great find, its even cheaper in blue & I'm really not precious. Hope it still there at the weekend.