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ariana wrote:Just wonder what people's thoughts are on doing interval sessions on treadmill?
I can't say that I really do interval sessions on a treadmill, as the sessions that I've been doing don't really fall under that category. i.e. your typical interval would be of the form: 12 x 400m @5k pace, with 200m recovery.Paging a Mr. Clown, Krusty...
Whereas the type of session I've been doing on the treadmill would be more of the form:
2 miles @LT / 1.5 miles @10k pace / 1 mile @5k / 4 x 300 @mile pace
or
5 x 2 miles @MP with 800m @steady pace
In an interval session like 12x400, the session is highly structured and the amount of recovery (whether it's 200m jog, or 60 seconds), is very well defined. It's very difficult to get that level of granularity in your accuracy on a treadmill, as you need to get it up to pace, down off pace and recover for just the right amount of time. Whereas for long sustained periods of effort, the ramp-up and down isn't as critical. So for example for a recent set of 16x200m @3k->1 Mile pace, I ran them on the cinder track, as you just can't do that kind of accuracy on a treadmill. My own experience is that marathon programs tend to lend themselves a little bit more to the treadmill, whereas highly structured faster shorter distance training (5k, 10k targets) are less suitable.
At the risk of coming across as a bit of a hypocrite (again), if you have viable alternatives to the treadmill, then they should be the priority (e.g. measured accommodating surface, with little interference (weather, traffic)). Most races are run outdoors with wind resistance, so you just can't beat doing your quality sessions outdoors for race preparation. I learned this lesson the hard way in a recent 10 mile race. I felt I was in really good PB shape and banged out the first 4 miles exactly on plan. But while my HR stayed relatively low, I struggled to get air into my lungs, which I think was a result of not doing enough quality work and not getting used to the challenge of oxygen extraction in an environment where the air is moving in different directions. The result was a stitch that slowed me to a little lower than target pace, and contributed towards not hitting my race target.
Other area of concern would be:- Yielding surface - the road isn't as soft as a treadmill and you need to prepare yourself for the hardships of a road race, particularly if the intervals are for race simulation.
- Drinks nutrition - you know those little cup-holders that are permanently at arms reach? Sadly, they're not at arms reach outside.
- Hills - treadmills don't generally have any. Even the 1%-1.5% that most of us select doesn't represent a realistic undulating surface, and I'd imagine that most people don't bother setting a hilly program when doing intervals on the treadmill.
- The belt: the direction of travel of the treadmill belt is propelling your foot backwards, aiding the stride function. So while the belt may be travelling at 6 minute mile, not all effort is necessarily equal.
- Mental strength and focus: I think of the treadmill as a bucking bronco. You hop on, set the pace appropriately, and then just try to ride the bull as long as you can. There's no thinking, no focus. If your mind drifts, you don't fall off the pace as you do on the road. There is hardship, but the decision process to keep going or to stop is largely taken out of your hands (which is both a blessing and a curse).
But it's not as good as doing it outside on the road..
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You know how the Macmillan calc isn't really accurate for predicted marathon pace / finish time bsed on 10k / 5k times etc (unless you've done really focused, high-mileage marathon training). How good do you think it would be for a 10-mile guide pace based on 5k / 5 mile race times? (Provided the person in question, i.e. me had done a certain amount of 10-mile training.)
They're useful as an aid, but races differ so much that you shouldn't be stuck to the predictions. For example, I ran Raheny then Trim on consecutive weeks last month, and my Raheny time predicted a time 74 seconds faster than what I ended up running Trim in. However, in between I got a cold so ran Trim relatively conservatively and I generally am weaker on prediction times as distances increase (I guess my endurance is poor
), so I was never intending to run Trim that fast. The nature of the course, standard of folks around you, support and general enthusiasm for the race may all influence your real time too. Unless you have a history of doing better at longer races, I'd go with a little bit slower than what your Raheny time predicts, and run a negative split if you feel like running faster than that on the day 0 -
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They're useful as an aid, but races differ so much that you shouldn't be stuck to the predictions. For example, I ran Raheny then Trim on consecutive weeks last month, and my Raheny time predicted a time 74 seconds faster than what I ended up running Trim in. However, in between I got a cold so ran Trim relatively conservatively and I generally am weaker on prediction times as distances increase (I guess my endurance is poor ), so I was never intending to run Trim that fast. The nature of the course, standard of folks around you, support and general enthusiasm for the race may all influence your real time too. Unless you have a history of doing better at longer races, I'd go with a little bit slower than what your Raheny time predicts, and run a negative split if you feel like running faster than that on the day
See post above. Am DEFINITELY planning on going slower than predicted time. 0 -
Krusty_Clown wrote: »I can't say that I really do interval sessions on a treadmill, as the sessions that I've been doing don't really fall under that category. i.e. your typical interval would be of the form: 12 x 400m @5k pace, with 200m recovery.
Whereas the type of session I've been doing on the treadmill would be more of the form:
2 miles @LT / 1.5 miles @10k pace / 1 mile @5k / 4 x 300 @mile pace
or
5 x 2 miles @MP with 800m @steady pace
In an interval session like 12x400, the session is highly structured and the amount of recovery (whether it's 200m jog, or 60 seconds), is very well defined. It's very difficult to get that level of granularity in your accuracy on a treadmill, as you need to get it up to pace, down off pace and recover for just the right amount of time. Whereas for long sustained periods of effort, the ramp-up and down isn't as critical. So for example for a recent set of 16x200m @3k->1 Mile pace, I ran them on the cinder track, as you just can't do that kind of accuracy on a treadmill. My own experience is that marathon programs tend to lend themselves a little bit more to the treadmill, whereas highly structured faster shorter distance training (5k, 10k targets) are less suitable.
At the risk of coming across as a bit of a hypocrite (again), if you have viable alternatives to the treadmill, then they should be the priority (e.g. measured accommodating surface, with little interference (weather, traffic)). Most races are run outdoors with wind resistance, so you just can't beat doing your quality sessions outdoors for race preparation. I learned this lesson the hard way in a recent 10 mile race. I felt I was in really good PB shape and banged out the first 4 miles exactly on plan. But while my HR stayed relatively low, I struggled to get air into my lungs, which I think was a result of not doing enough quality work and not getting used to the challenge of oxygen extraction in an environment where the air is moving in different directions. The result was a stitch that slowed me to a little lower than target pace, and contributed towards not hitting my race target.
Other area of concern would be:- Yielding surface - the road isn't as soft as a treadmill and you need to prepare yourself for the hardships of a road race, particularly if the intervals are for race simulation.
- Drinks nutrition - you know those little cup-holders that are permanently at arms reach? Sadly, they're not at arms reach outside.
- Hills - treadmills don't generally have any. Even the 1%-1.5% that most of us select doesn't represent a realistic undulating surface, and I'd imagine that most people don't bother setting a hilly program when doing intervals on the treadmill.
- The belt: the direction of travel of the treadmill belt is propelling your foot backwards, aiding the stride function. So while the belt may be travelling at 6 minute mile, not all effort is necessarily equal.
- Mental strength and focus: I think of the treadmill as a bucking bronco. You hop on, set the pace appropriately, and then just try to ride the bull as long as you can. There's no thinking, no focus. If your mind drifts, you don't fall off the pace as you do on the road. There is hardship, but the decision process to keep going or to stop is largely taken out of your hands (which is both a blessing and a curse).
But it's not as good as doing it outside on the road..
Thanks. Exactly the type of reply i was looking for. And yes i'm talking about the 10 x 400m @ 5k pace type sessions so taking all your considered opinions on board i'll be making every effort to reorganise my life and do them outdoors, on a track preferably.0 -
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I love the 'hunger' I feel after a run, food is so much more enjoyable so I run to eat (although my diet in the past wasn't good and I was still overweight, have had to improve 'the quality' of what I eat, cook more myself now)
I call it runger. If I don't feed the runger I end up hangry.0 -
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