Random Running Questions

Murph_D

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I more less follow the"meno" plan from boards. I had to make a few changes and move things around a bit, and I also didn't do the races as specified in the plan so it ended up looking like this:

CCM 2017 actual

My thinking was the same as yours I suppose - I'm not starting from scratch for Dublin and am hoping to build on this training cycle after a proper recovery.

Hey M,

I think a 12-week programme like P&D would be ideal as you already have the base mileage under your belt from the Cork cycle. Just get as much rest as you can in the weeks after Cork, maybe following the P&D post-marathon schedule for a few weeks.

I did both Cork and Dublin last year, the second one off a 12-week plan partly based on P&D. It seemed to work well (my mediocre performances in both races were not the fault of the plan!) I think Charleville is far enough out to race it - P&D has a 10-mile race 4 weeks out anyway. Just adapt accordingly.

Good luck.

Cartman78

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I know this is a bit of a pathetic post, but sure anyway. I'm approaching my 3rd week injured and the depression is really starting to kick in.

The injury is not running related, but the nature of it means that not only can't I run, at times it's very uncomfortable and painful to walk. Best case scenario is that I'll be out another week, worst case (I'll know Monday) could be longer if any surgery is needed.

I had built up a decent amount of progress to date. I'm not amazing, but was making my own gains. Have quite a few race registrations too, but it's unlikely I will even make the race.

I'm very down about the fact that I can't go out, but I know that is just the fact and I should be grateful there isn't something more serious wrong with me.

My question is - what do people do to avoid the anger/frustration of not being able to get out? And is there anything productive at all I can be doing during this time? (food, stretching ...??)

Thank you

I've had a couple of lengthy absences from running over the last couple of years so I feel your pain (and frustration).

I found it helpful to find another achievable goal and work towards that while you're recuperating eg. last year I could barely do one proper pull up, so focused on improving that for a few weeks and have kept them going as part of my training. Not sure if they necessarily help running or not but definitely a satisfying physical exercise :pac:

Maybe some core work, six-pack building etc might hit the spot for you (?)

Other that that, as others have said, try swimming, cycling etc. and tell yourself that any aerobic activity will be beneficial once you eventually get back running.

hot buttered scones

Murph_D wrote: »

Hey M,

I think a 12-week programme like P&D would be ideal as you already have the base mileage under your belt from the Cork cycle. Just get as much rest as you can in the weeks after Cork, maybe following the P&D post-marathon schedule for a few weeks.

I did both Cork and Dublin last year, the second one off a 12-week plan partly based on P&D. It seemed to work well (my mediocre performances in both races were not the fault of the plan!) I think Charleville is far enough out to race it - P&D has a 10-mile race 4 weeks out anyway. Just adapt accordingly.

Good luck.

The P+D post marathon schedule fits perfectly and I plan on doing that. There's about three weeks then before a 12 week plan starts, so I've pencilled some short local races just for fun and see if can snag a PB or two.

I've currently got this going:

Decisions, decisions

My peak mileage for Cork will be 65 miles/week and I'd like to go there again for Dublin. P+D up to 70 would seem ideal but it seems like a lot of longish runs - I don't know if I'll have time. P+D up to 55 worked well for me the last time - maybe I could swap out a rest day for a recovery run to increase the mileage?
I actually had it down to P+D up to 70 or MacMillan Strava when I came across this site:

http://www.mprunning.com/FreePrograms.html

The 12 week programmes incorporate a half 6 weeks out, which fits in perfectly for Dublin and Charleville, and it has a lot of variations based on number of days running, duration etc. I'll have to sit down and work out the mileage but they look ok, and I'm actually leaning towards trying one out for Dublin (maybe :rolleyes: )

I also invested in Jack Daniels book ,the Hanson book and Magness' book but they'll be for another day I think. I'lll have to read them first which may take longer than marathon training!

glacial_pace71

Don't want to hijack a thread with this frivolous question, but the BBC Archive is showing 'on this day, 6 May' the novel phenomenon of 'jogging' as being an American import in 1971.

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/860837813956169729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-39799138

No idea how this came to be seen as 'new' in 1971, perhaps just because the Beeb said so? Or was there a specific book at the time that lauded the merits of a slow-motion variation on Fartlek training?

And on the day that Bannister broke the 4 minute mile ...
https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/860856450234568704

El Caballo

glacial_pace71 wrote: »

Don't want to hijack a thread with this frivolous question, but the BBC Archive is showing 'on this day, 6 May' the novel phenomenon of 'jogging' as being an American import in 1971.

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/860837813956169729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-39799138

No idea how this came to be seen as 'new' in 1971, perhaps just because the Beeb said so? Or was there a specific book at the time that lauded the merits of a slow-motion variation on Fartlek training?

And on the day that Bannister broke the 4 minute mile ...
https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/860856450234568704

Just from what I've read as it's a bit before my time is that jogging/running or whatever you want to call it was extremely uncommon back in those days and anyone seen to be outside of a really high level of performance was pretty much laughed at if they were seen out.

I don't know why it supposedly happened in Britain that specific year but funnily enough, the man credited with inventing jogging is also the man credited with revolutionizing the sport at the very highest level, Arthur Lydiard. The facts and fiction about him overlap so much that it is hard to say what really happened but a lot of his work outside of training Olympic Champions was based around helping/experimenting with the average joe and rehabbing patients with heart problems. Some which involved taking patients with bypasses and major heart attacks and getting them to run up to 20 mile long runs which was unheard of at the time as these people were hugely discouraged from any sort of stress on the heart. He was hugely innovative both medically and revolutionary in training as the core concepts of his training idealogy are still in use today and are the foundation for many of the WR you see in long distance running, different coaches have added on but the core of it is all his doing.

He was a bit of an unusual cooach in that he would literally coach anyone who asked him whether their name was Peter Snell and Murray Halberg or joe bloggs who couldn't run 10 metres without throwing up a lung. He formed a club of his own in New Zealand called the Auckland Joggers club and well....here we are today.

davedanon

i the man credited with inventing jogging


I believe it's pronounced 'yogging'.

El Caballo

davedanon wrote: »

i the man credited with inventing jogging


I believe it's pronounced 'yogging'.

davedanon

El Caballo wrote: »

You're nothing but a common yogger!

hot buttered scones

Murph_D wrote:

Hey M,

Murph_D wrote:

I think a 12-week programme like P&D would be ideal as you already have the base mileage under your belt from the Cork cycle. Just get as much rest as you can in the weeks after Cork, maybe following the P&D post-marathon schedule for a few weeks.


I did both Cork and Dublin last year, the second one off a 12-week plan partly based on P&D. It seemed to work well (my mediocre performances in both races were not the fault of the plan!) I think Charleville is far enough out to race it - P&D has a 10-mile race 4 weeks out anyway. Just adapt accordingly.


Good luck.

I got a mad notion after reading this. If I do mesocycle 1+2 from the 12 week plan (with a small adjustment) in the lead up to Charleville then mesocycle 3 and 4 from the 18 week plan I get a 14 week plan with Charleville in exactly the right place. I typed it up and it looks quite good. I think that's what I'll do. Cheers Murph_D.

djemba djemba

What do people look for in accommodation when travelling away to a marathon.

Johnny_Fontane

djemba djemba wrote: »

What do people look for in accommodation when travelling away to a marathon.

a lift in the apartment/hotel. Dont want to be tackling steps post marathon. :D

adrian522

Personally I want somewhere close to the start/finish. If I can remove reliance on public transport all the better.
2nd is a kitchen/microwave or some such thing so I can make my own coffee and breakfast on the day.
I guess 3rd is access to shop/restaurant but that's usually not an issue. Proximity to the expo is an ice bonus though not at all essential.
After that I'm not really bothered as long as its comfortable enough.

rainbow kirby

djemba djemba wrote: »

What do people look for in accommodation when travelling away to a marathon.

- Centrally located
- Relatively quiet if possible
- Early breakfast in the hotel or cafes nearby where it can be acquired
- Good public transport links to the race start

Singer

djemba djemba wrote: »

What do people look for in accommodation when travelling away to a marathon.

An apartment with a second door just in case you get locked out.

adrian522

Singer wrote: »

An apartment with a second door just in case you get locked out.

That's only of benefit if you know about the second entrance.

Swashbuckler

I've been training pretty hard over the last four weeks with a view to targeting sub 40 in one of three 10k races in July/August. I've noticed I'm pretty tired after the last few weeks which have included a mix of tempo runs/intervals/long ten mile runs/easy/recovery runs and rest days.

I've seen a lot mentioned about "down weeks" to help recovery and optimise performance. What exactly is a "down week" and how often in a cycle should you have one? Is it a matter of just not doing any intervals/tempo/long runs in that week? Just curious to see people's opinions.

BeepBeep67

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I've been training pretty hard over the last four weeks with a view to targeting sub 40 in one of three 10k races in July/August. I've noticed I'm pretty tired after the last few weeks which have included a mix of tempo runs/intervals/long ten mile runs/easy/recovery runs and rest days.

I've seen a lot mentioned about "down weeks" to help recovery and optimise performance. What exactly is a "down week" and how often in a cycle should you have one? Is it a matter of just not doing any intervals/tempo/long runs in that week? Just curious to see people's opinions.

A typical cycle is a 4 week one, 3 up weeks, followed by 1 down week.

This can be coincided with a race, time trial or key session, which in turn provides input in to your next 4 week block.

The benefit of this approach is that it is during the recovery period when your body adapts to the stimulus and stress you put on it during the up weeks.
It allows time for some repair and in theory makes you stronger both physically and mentally for the next block.

Reduce your mileage and intensity by 25 - 40%, it's a simple as that.

Swashbuckler

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

A typical cycle is a 4 week one, 3 up weeks, followed by 1 down week.

This can be coincided with a race, time trial or key session, which in turn provides input in to your next 4 week block.

The benefit of this approach is that it is during the recovery period when your body adapts to the stimulus and stress you put on it during the up weeks.
It allows time for some repair and in theory makes you stronger both physically and mentally for the next block.

Thanks for the reply. And in terms of the down week itself - do you just do three or four easy runs that week, or is it a complete rest period?

pconn062

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. And in terms of the down week itself - do you just do three or four easy runs that week, or is it a complete rest period?

I would still get out for some easy runs but maybe just shorten them, if you normally do 1hr a day, just do 30-40 mins. You could still do a light session to keep the legs turning over or as BeepBeep said, a race or a time trial. Play it by feel, if you're completely wiped just jog easy a few days for the week.

Swashbuckler

Thanks to both of you. Will give it a go next week. Cheers for the advice.

Spirogyra

Does training for a marathon mean sacrificing speed in 5 and 10k's, for a while anyway?. That's the one 'antagonism' I feel towards doing Dublin, I had done some good time's in shorter runs the past year. I suppose certainly from August on distance will have to be the focus and speed, in shorter runs, will suffer a bit ? I usually do XC in September/October.

Jfrost

Spirogyra wrote: »

Does training for a marathon mean sacrificing speed in 5 and 10k's, for a while anyway?. That's the one 'antagonism' I feel towards doing Dublin, I had done some good time's in shorter runs the past year. I suppose certainly from August on distance will have to be the focus and speed, in shorter runs, will suffer a bit ? I usually do XC in September/October.

In my own experience, my shorter distances became faster.
My distances increased but I kept Parkrun and other 5/10km distances going.
Ran them at top pace and after lunch threw in a slow long run, at least 20km and enjoyed the scenery.
Got miles on my legs, fitness improved, but I thoroughly believe in mixing the training up...circuits, spinning as well as running..
It is up to you what you want and how to max it.
You'll be surprised how adapting the distances will improve you as a runner overall.

RayCun

Spirogyra wrote: »

Does training for a marathon mean sacrificing speed in 5 and 10k's, for a while anyway?

Marathon training will improve your aerobic capacity, which for many people will improve their performance in shorter distances. People who have been training for longer usually already have a decent aerobic capacity, and it isn't the limiting factor for them in shorter races, so it won't help.

Billy Reid

Just completed another 10km race and I happy with time 50 ish

Any suggestions on a weekly training program for a busy work and family person.

Jfrost

Billy Reid wrote: »

Just completed another 10km race and I happy with time 50 ish

Any suggestions on a weekly training program for a busy work and family person.

One easy help point is to get up 30 minutes earlier and fit a 20- 25 minute run in before shower and breakfast.

Billy Reid

Jfrost wrote: »

One easy help point is to get up 30 minutes earlier and fit a 20- 25 minute run in before shower and breakfast.

Thanks

HigginsJ

Do people tend to "specialise" on specific distances or is it normal to go through the whole gamut from 5k's up to marathons over the course of the year?

If you are focused on a specific set of distances, how did you decide what you focused on?

Sacksian

Just do what you enjoy! I run middle-distance track and xc and, having started with marathons, I found that - once exposed to them - I enjoyed the adrenalin (and probably the greater physicality) of shorter events on track and xc much more than longer distances/road.

I like training specifically for a distance too so, while it's always heartening to see how well you can run a good 5k off middle-distance training or off marathon training, or jumping into a random race, I find it a lot more satisfying to train for a specific target race and execute what I'd planned.

But everyone's different, so it's worth figuring out what approach suits your personality.

davedanon

Sacksian wrote: »

Just do what you enjoy! I run middle-distance track and xc and, having started with marathons, I found that - once exposed to them - I enjoyed the adrenalin (and probably the greater physicality) of shorter events on track and xc much more than longer distances/road.

I like training specifically for a distance too so, while it's always heartening to see how well you can run a good 5k off middle-distance training or off marathon training, or jumping into a random race, I find it a lot more satisfying to train for a specific target race and execute what I'd planned.

But everyone's different, so it's worth figuring out what approach suits your personality.

Generalising a bit, but I'd say most people would run all or most distances from 5k up to marathon distance. A typical runner would do one goal marathon a year, and the training for this would eat up 4 months. Allow for a month recuperating from that, plus another month or two where the focus is elsewhere: Christmas, holidays, etc etc, and you're left with about 5 months where you're free to specialise to a degree. Some would do specific training for a distance or particular race. Some arrange it all around the xc season. Others, maybe some trail running or mountain races. Like the previous poster said: do whatever suits you. But most people aren't 'good' enough to warrant focusing on one particular event or distance. Again, a generalisation, but most of us would be all-rounders.

kave2

Hi everyone, looking for advice. Completed my first half marathon in Limerick 2 weeks ago. I plan to do half marathons only this year and maybe next year full. My question is when I do my long run, what distance should I be doing? Should I stick with half marathon distance? How often? Is it ok to do half every week as my long run? Thanks.