Random Running Questions

Zipppy

Itziger wrote:

Why the sad face? (I'm 52 btw) When in serious training I get out 6 or 7 days a week and do up to 110kms or so. Otherwise it would be 5 times a week and maybe 50 or 60k. My job isn't the worst for training. I do have 4 kids and a wife though

110k a week? I'm struggling to keep my weight up (and failing badky..) doing 20-30k a week...can't imagine what 110k would do to me...what you training for?
Maybe I need to up my miles

Itziger

Zipppy wrote: »

Itziger wrote:

Why the sad face? (I'm 52 btw) When in serious training I get out 6 or 7 days a week and do up to 110kms or so. Otherwise it would be 5 times a week and maybe 50 or 60k. My job isn't the worst for training. I do have 4 kids and a wife though

110k a week? I'm struggling to keep my weight up (and failing badky..) doing 20-30k a week...can't imagine what 110k would do to me...what you training for?
Maybe I need to up my miles

I try to keep tipping away most of the year. Did a couple of 10k races in Spring and Cork marathon in June. Did a Half last week and will try to get in shape for Valencia marathon on Nov 19th next. I do however have a 78km trail race in 2 weeks time. Not a target race though. Upping the miles will help you. That is a low enough base ya got there. My weight is steady. Just need to lose a kilo or two after Summer excess!

The Black Oil

How long has gel been used in runners, did it exist decades ago?

Testosterscone

Lazare wrote: »

I'm training for DCM. When it's done I'm thinking of starting a plan for the Raheny 5 in January which is obv a different animal in terms of the workouts.
This is my first ever training plan.

In general , I'm thinking of spending from November to May/June working on faster shorter stuff then spending July to October working on marathon training each year.

Is this a sound idea? Does anyone else do this?

Will I still be able to max my potential at DCM doing this or would I need to focus on distance all year round to achieve that?

Personally I would see this as the best approach, however training for 5k-Marathon need not be completely polar as you need strength to run a good 5km just as much as a marathon

When adjusting to shorter stuff;

- Keep long run up i.e 90 min-2 hrs weekly
- Keep mileage relatively the same (will be a bit of a drop due to long run scaling back a little)
- Keep weekly tempo's
- Change focus and specificity of sessions (less long runs with stuff and more time on your feet long runs)

If you look at the plans I did before you will see that they complement each other and should find yourself alot strong going from marathon cycle to marathon cycle

Testosterscone

The Black Oil wrote: »

How long has gel been used in runners, did it exist decades ago?

Think they started in the late 80s but mainly in Triathlons don't think it hit mainstream running till the 90s (coincidentally around the time of the drop off in performances but doubt one had to do with another)

Just remember though gels are a stop gap rather than a nutritional aid, people have used Jelly Babies, Orange slices, flat coca cola, jaffa cakes, bananas, sugar water and many other things throughout the years (even as recently as this year I know elites who have opted for the more traditional "real foods"

horses for courses though.

quickbeam

The Black Oil wrote: »

How long has gel been used in runners, did it exist decades ago?

Testosterscone wrote: »

Think they started in the late 80s but mainly in Triathlons don't think it hit mainstream running till the 90s (coincidentally around the time of the drop off in performances but doubt one had to do with another)

Just remember though gels are a stop gap rather than a nutritional aid, people have used Jelly Babies, Orange slices, flat coca cola, jaffa cakes, bananas, sugar water and many other things throughout the years (even as recently as this year I know elites who have opted for the more traditional "real foods"

horses for courses though.

I thought he meant a different type of gel - the gel in the runners, ie the soles of the shoes worn when running??

Testosterscone

quickbeam wrote: »

I thought he meant a different type of gel - the gel in the runners, ie the soles of the shoes worn when running??

Whoops (morning coffee hasn't kicked in)

Think the earliest link is probably a track coach by the name of Bill Bowerman (one of the founders of Nike) and his famous Waffle Iron creation back in 1974 while I think cushioning as we know it was mid to late 80s

Zipppy

Itziger wrote: »

I try to keep tipping away most of the year. Did a couple of 10k races in Spring and Cork marathon in June. Did a Half last week and will try to get in shape for Valencia marathon on Nov 19th next. I do however have a 78km trail race in 2 weeks time. Not a target race though. Upping the miles will help you. That is a low enough base ya got there. My weight is steady. Just need to lose a kilo or two after Summer excess!

I think I'm not eating enough...weight keeps slipping lower...deffo the running that is doing it...so going to up the miles (not to 110k mind you ) and eat more

RayCun

Zipppy wrote: »

I think I'm not eating enough...weight keeps slipping lower...deffo the running that is doing it...so going to up the miles (not to 110k mind you ) and eat more

how much do you weigh?

Huzzah!

Does anyone know of anywhere in Dublin city centre that sells Cliff Shot Bloks?

Annie get your Run

Huzzah! wrote: »

Does anyone know of anywhere in Dublin city centre that sells Cliff Shot Bloks?

I've seen them in Cycle Ways on Parnell Sq, you could give them a shout to confirm if they still have them.

Lazare

Testosterscone wrote: »

Personally I would see this as the best approach, however training for 5k-Marathon need not be completely polar as you need strength to run a good 5km just as much as a marathon

When adjusting to shorter stuff;

- Keep long run up i.e 90 min-2 hrs weekly
- Keep mileage relatively the same (will be a bit of a drop due to long run scaling back a little)
- Keep weekly tempo's
- Change focus and specificity of sessions (less long runs with stuff and more time on your feet long runs)

If you look at the plans I did before you will see that they complement each other and should find yourself alot strong going from marathon cycle to marathon cycle

Great stuff, thanks so much.

Hannibal_Smith

This is such a stupid question. But I fall A LOT when running. I cannot even count at this stage how many times I have hit the deck. Sundays fall has left me with a fecked up face and shoulder and my knees are completely shagged. At 41 it is not a good look :pac: I read the logs here a lot and I don't read anyone else who falls as much as me.

I presume there's no solution to it, other than continuing to try and watch my step, but just in case there is some sort of harmony i can bring to my running i thought I'd ask

RayCun

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

This is such a stupid question. But I fall A LOT when running. I cannot even count at this stage how many times I have hit the deck. Sundays fall has left me with a fecked up face and shoulder and my knees are completely shagged. At 41 it is not a good look :pac: I read the logs here a lot and I don't read anyone else who falls as much as me.

I presume there's no solution to it, other than continuing to try and watch my step, but just in case there is some sort of harmony i can bring to my running i thought I'd ask

Do you listen to music/podcasts while running, might distract you?
What is your running style like, are your feet lifting or dragging close to the ground?

TFBubendorfer

What surfaces are you running on? Road, trails, grass?

Falling when running on stony trails is pretty much part of the game, but on roads you should be able to stay on your feet at all times.

Hannibal_Smith

First of all, thanks so much for replying and for not telling me to feck off!

RayCun wrote: »

Do you listen to music/podcasts while running, might distract you?
What is your running style like, are your feet lifting or dragging close to the ground?

I listen to music. Maybe it is more distracting than I think and stops me paying attention to my feet. Regarding lifting my feet, I thought a while ago that that maybe the cause. So after yet another fall a few months ago I decided to concentrate on lifting my feet. At the same time, i was also trying to watch the path for uneven ground, next of all bam! I was picking myself up again

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

What surfaces are you running on? Road, trails, grass?

Falling when running on stony trails is pretty much part of the game, but on roads you should be able to stay on your feet at all times.

I wouldn't even dream of running on trails, unless for the soft earth. I'd be on my hands and knees every 5 minutes.
:pac: It's all on roads . The path I was on on Sunday, I have fallen on before. So I watch out for the raise in the path automatically now. I was passed it and motoring pleasantly and bam! I was peeling my face off the ground and spitting gravel out of my mouth

Any how, thanks again for the replies. I expect it's pretty much a personal thing that only I can fix. When I've recovered from this latest one I'll try without music and see how I fare.

davedanon

For what it's worth, and it might be nothing, but I've done loads of club runs through the park on paths and grass in complete darkness, and never had a fall. The falls I have had, conversely, have been A) in broad daylight, and taken me completely by surprise. On trails, I have of course had tumbles, but not on highly technical sections where fierce concentration is demanded, but on relatively easy ground : particularly when I got tired. So it's got less to do with the conditions underfoot, than my own concentration levels.

lenihankevin

Have you had previous ankle/foot injuries or peripheral vascular problems? These can often lead to reduced proprioception which may be causing you to not be aware of where exactly your foot is thus causing the falls. Perhaps a gp visit may be worthwhile to rule out any issue.

hillsiderunner

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

The path I was on on Sunday, I have fallen on before. So I watch out for the raise in the path automatically now. I was passed it and motoring pleasantly and bam!

Have gone flying on paths more often than trails, and its usually been down to those silly dips in the path you get where people have lowered the path to make an entrance to drive-in. You get caught on the "up" of the dip . There are lots of them in Kimmage/Terenure and along Leinster Road where I run on Dublin visits.

I think being distracted would make a difference too, tiredness or music in the ears ....

Hannibal_Smith

davedanon wrote: »

For what it's worth, and it might be nothing, but I've done loads of club runs through the park on paths and grass in complete darkness, and never had a fall. The falls I have had, conversely, have been A) in broad daylight, and taken me completely by surprise. On trails, I have of course had tumbles, but not on highly technical sections where fierce concentration is demanded, but on relatively easy ground : particularly when I got tired. So it's got less to do with the conditions underfoot, than my own concentration levels.

Without wishing to sound too sadistic, hearing other people's tripping stories are worth their weight in gold right now. :pac: Were they on foot paths with spectators? Tell me! Tell me! I don't know whether I was tired on Sunday. Not especially anyway. I'm trying to imagine what to concentrate on, without making it look like I'm trying to do one of John Cleese's silly walks :pac: But I think it's worth more focus for sure.

lenihankevin wrote: »

Have you had previous ankle/foot injuries or peripheral vascular problems? These can often lead to reduced proprioception which may be causing you to not be aware of where exactly your foot is thus causing the falls. Perhaps a gp visit may be worthwhile to rule out any issue.

I had to Google a lot of that . I haven't had any injuries other than a calf strain, which is completely gone now. Sometimes I still get pains in my foot, but nothing too noteworthy. The proprioception, is very interesting! I will look into that a bit more.

Thanks again folks.

Hannibal_Smith

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Have gone flying on paths more often than trails, and its usually been down to those silly dips in the path you get where people have lowered the path to make an entrance to drive-in. You get caught on the "up" of the dip . There are lots of them in Kimmage/Terenure and along Leinster Road where I run on Dublin visits.

I think being distracted would make a difference too, tiredness or music in the ears ....

Love it! More tripping stories yes, I know exactly what you mean. I have tripped on them before. My issue appears to be ANY unevenness in terms ground. For example, you know the joins in a path? If one juts up higher than the other, I'm a goner. There is one not even a foot away from where i fell on Sun and i skipped over it without any issues. It's annoying me that I got caught just after it!

jamule

I once went a bender in town after a 20miler. Could'nt get a taxi home, decided to run back to clontarf, got to fairview when legs gave up and keeled over, eventually crawled back home. Severe gravel rashed head for a few weeks and retirement from drunken running.

I've has 2 other falls, one was i kicked a cement patch where a bollard had broken, landed spawling across grsvel, still have the mark on my knee. The other was a dip in a path that had a huge pothole. I've never fallen coming down a hill though, i came close a few times and went over on my ankle but stayed upright.

ThisRegard

I dunno, but falling that regularly is not normal for an adult, even for a child it's a stretch.

Singer

I went through a phase of falls last year, every one of them was due to lack of concentration while listening to podcasts or whatever. Even when running on paths there are plenty of opportunities to go flying. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I do a bit more trail/off-road running compared to what I used to, and I haven't had any recent falls - I think it keeps me a bit more aware of my surroundings, even at a subconscious level. Maybe try running easily on some mixed terrain and see how it goes. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've had a fall since I did a couple of IMRA races

rainbow kirby

I've had way too many falls while running, usually every few months there's something unfortunately! Last big one got me 6 stitches in my knee after a drain cover sliced into it.

davedanon

My worst day was a trail run - my first ever! - with the sainted Krusty and a couple of other former boardsies. We met at Lamb Doyle's, and my first premonition of doom happened when we jogged off up the road behind Lamb's, then suddenly found myself following the other through a gap and straight up the side of the hill, in a stream bed. I coped with everything thrown at me, including the nasty section of WW trail bristling with jagged rocks leading from the fairy fort T-junction down towards the road. All was well, until fatigue began to set in, and BOOM BOOM, I fell twice on innocuous sections of trail. That wasn't too bad, but now the others' trail savvy kicked in, and while I had been acquitting myself just fine on the uphill stretches, it now became apparent that the trick in trail running is to descend as fast as possible. I got left behind, and, my confidence low, picked my way carefully downhill towards the 3 rock transmitters. It was then that I made the big mistake. I was now on grassy terrain, and i figured I could pick up the pace and catch up with the others. Oh, did I mention that it was wet, and I was wearing road shoes? Anyway, I began springing from tussock to tussock, picking up speed, and then, I hit a patch of wet grass, my feet went flying from under me, and I hit the ground............HARD. My arm was between my ribs and the ground, and I thought I had busted a rib. I limped down to join the others, my jacket covered in muck and holding my arm against my side. It was 4 or 5 months before the pain in my ribs went away.

Hannibal_Smith

jamule wrote: »

I once went a bender in town after a 20miler. Could'nt get a taxi home, decided to run back to clontarf, got to fairview when legs gave up and keeled over, eventually crawled back home. Severe gravel rashed head for a few weeks and retirement from drunken running.

I've has 2 other falls, one was i kicked a cement patch where a bollard had broken, landed spawling across grsvel, still have the mark on my knee. The other was a dip in a path that had a huge pothole. I've never fallen coming down a hill though, i came close a few times and went over on my ankle but stayed upright.

This makes me feel better

I fell coming down hill a few months ago...the great thing was it took ages to hit the ground so I had a chance to try save myself which made impact less painful. I did a whuuuhhh waaaaah type pull up..slack down thing. I actually heard traffic slow down as rubberneckers were like myself, wondering whether I'd wrench myself out of it...but no. Down I went.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I dunno, but falling that regularly is not normal for an adult, even for a child it's a stretch.

My son falls a lot and I have often rolled eyed at him for not being careful. But now people are saying it to me. But it's not that I'm not being careful. I am not even running where there are roots in trees jutting up. It is little flat as a pancake paths, where any small lip will be my literal downfall.

Singer wrote: »

I went through a phase of falls last year, every one of them was due to lack of concentration while listening to podcasts or whatever. Even when running on paths there are plenty of opportunities to go flying. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I do a bit more trail/off-road running compared to what I used to, and I haven't had any recent falls - I think it keeps me a bit more aware of my surroundings, even at a subconscious level. Maybe try running easily on some mixed terrain and see how it goes. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've had a fall since I did a couple of IMRA races

Do you know what I might try grass running for a while. If nothing else it will be softer if i do fall. And it might actually train me to make sure the feet are moving properly!

Hannibal_Smith

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I've had way too many falls while running, usually every few months there's something unfortunately! Last big one got me 6 stitches in my knee after a drain cover sliced into it.

This is me! Do you just accept it now? Ouch about the stitches. I have to say, I have been very lucky that I have only ever suffered a grazed knee and hands. Oh...one time I lobbed off the top of my thumb, it bled all the way for 8 miles. But Sundays one was the worst. I can still hear the sound of my face smacking the ground. I thought I chipped a tooth...but luckily it was just stones in my mouth. The cut on my face is scarily close to my eye, but thankfully it's only cuts and bruises. I'm just afraid of something more serious now that it doesn't seem to be improving!

davedanon wrote: »

My worst day was a trail run - my first ever! - with the sainted Krusty and a couple of other former boardsies. We met at Lamb Doyle's, and my first premonition of doom happened when we jogged off up the road behind Lamb's, then suddenly found myself following the other through a gap and straight up the side of the hill, in a stream bed. I coped with everything thrown at me, including the nasty section of WW trail bristling with jagged rocks leading from the fairy fort T-junction down towards the road. All was well, until fatigue began to set in, and BOOM BOOM, I fell twice on innocuous sections of trail.

Oh no...morto and ouch :pac: . Again, I'm luckynot to have had too much damage done...other than a gravel face this time. Most embarrassing one was outside the Speaker as about 50 club runners came running in the other direction. I tripped over the bubbly ground at the traffic lights and did a bowling ball rolling into the runners. They were very kind but I still cringe at that one

RayCun

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Most embarrassing one was outside the Speaker as about 50 club runners came running in the other direction.

the Speaker Connolly? You should be joining those club runners!

Annie get your Run

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Without wishing to sound too sadistic, hearing other people's tripping stories are worth their weight in gold right now. :pac:

I don't think I've ever fallen while 'out for a run' but I have fallen while running - for the train, in full office gear, splat on the ground, always with a big audience (just in the interest of making you feel better ). I wasn't watching where I was going because I was so focused on getting to my destination asap. I've gone over on my ankle on trails and tripped over tree stumps but I usually manage to regain my balance rather than hitting the deck.

I'd agree with the others about concentrating. Try it without music, focus totally on your running, and look ahead at the ground - not down at where your feet currently are but just a few feet ahead so you can see any potential obstacles and be ready for them. Hope you recover soon from your injuries!