Random Running Questions

cjt156

I'd imagine you get a fuller flex barefoot.
I do mine on the edge of a step so I get a downwards movement too.

clickerquicklic

Post marathon my parkruns are very slow compared to pre-marathon is this normal ?, I was expecting to actually be much faster and smash my old pb but flat out today I was 50 seconds off my pb .

TFBubendorfer

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Post marathon my parkruns are very slow compared to pre-marathon is this normal ?, I was expecting to actually be much faster and smash my old pb but flat out today I was 50 seconds off my pb .

You haven't recovered from the marathon yet. You should not even have attempted a PB 2 weeks after a marathon - the injury risk was not worth it and you were never going to be at your best. 6-7* weeks after the marathon, as long as you avoid doing anything stupid, you should see real, big improvements.


* having said that, rate of adaptation is different for each of us

clickerquicklic

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

You haven't recovered from the marathon yet. You should not even have attempted a PB 2 weeks after a marathon - the injury risk was not worth it and you were never going to be at your best. 6-7* weeks after the marathon, as long as you avoid doing anything stupid, you should see real, big improvements.


* having said that, rate of adaptation is different for each of us

So you do get a benefit but it just doesn't show up so soon? On another note , I run as hard as I can almost every week at Parkrun , even last week I knew I wouldn't pb but didn't stop me racing as hard as possible. Should you race a 5k flat out every week or is it bad for your body?

El Caballo

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Post marathon my parkruns are very slow compared to pre-marathon is this normal ?, I was expecting to actually be much faster and smash my old pb but flat out today I was 50 seconds off my pb .

You have to let your body recover after the marathon, This is why a few us were against running high intensity races and workouts on the last page, your body is in a fatigued state and you need to give it rest or otherwise you keep digging a bigger hole of fatigue. Think of it like a bank account and withdrawing your savings, you can only withdraw so much but you start overdrafting and creating debt and the more you draw, the bigger that debt becomes, the more you need to pay it back. The only way to get back in the black is to stop drawing and pay it back and in running terms post-marathon, that means rest from high intensity for a few weeks. If you don't, you only extend how much you need to pay back eventually

Recovery is just as important as training as it is a balance of both that gives the best results. Without both in unison, you'll end up either undercooked or overcooked. This is what training is all about, you train for stress and recover for fitness. You can't just keep stressing your body and not expect it to breakdown at some point if you do not pay just as much attention to recovery. Take a few weeks off high intensity running with no speedwork or racing, just easy and I mean really easy mileage gradually building up volume each week until your body recovers again.

clickerquicklic

El Caballo wrote: »

You have to let your body recover after the marathon, This is why a few us were against running high intensity races and workouts on the last page, your body is in a fatigued state and you need to give it rest or otherwise you keep digging a bigger hole of fatigue. Think of it like a bank account and withdrawing your savings, you can only withdraw so much but you start overdrafting and creating debt and the more you draw, the bigger that debt becomes, the more you need to pay it back. The only way to get back in the black is to stop drawing and pay it back and in running terms post-marathon, that means rest from high intensity for a few weeks. If you don't, you only extend how much you need to pay back eventually

Recovery is just as important as training as it is a balance of both that gives the best results. Without both in unison, you'll end up either undercooked or overcooked. This is what training is all about, you train for stress and recover for fitness. You can't just keep stressing your body and not expect it to breakdown at some point if you do not pay just as much attention to recovery. Take a few weeks off high intensity running with no speedwork or racing, just easy and I mean really easy mileage gradually building up volume each week until your body recovers again.

Thanks lads , yeah I haven't been running any hard sessions just a couple of easy 5 mile runs this week and was feeling pretty fresh just confused as to why I was slower than I was pre marathon. I remember hearing that its easy to smash your times after marathon training as you have all this new fitness and stamina.

Edited to say I was confused I get what your saying now the fatigue is there even if you can't feel it.

El Caballo

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks lads , yeah I haven't been running any hard sessions just a couple of easy 5 mile runs this week and was feeling pretty fresh just confused as to why I was slower than I was pre marathon. I remember hearing that its easy to smash your times after marathon training as you have all this new fitness and stamina.

You've been running flat out parkruns that are much higher intensity than any speed sessions. Yes, new enough or undertrained runners will see big gains in fitness post marathon but only if they pay attention to recovery post marathon first and that means weeks of recovery. If a freakish 2.03 marathon runner like Kipchoge takes a month of recovery post marathon, that should tell us mere mortals something.

clickerquicklic

El Caballo wrote: »

You've been running flat out parkruns that are much higher intensity than any speed sessions. Yes, new enough or undertrained runners will see big gains in fitness post marathon but only if they pay attention to recovery post marathon first and that means weeks of recovery. If a freakish 2.03 marathon runner like Kipchoge takes a month of recovery post marathon, that should tell us mere mortals something.

Thanks El , its a learning curve this running malarkey. My lifetime miles are less than most peoples yearly miles here ! Run slow run often seems to be the key.

Testosterscone

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Thanks lads , yeah I haven't been running any hard sessions just a couple of easy 5 mile runs this week and was feeling pretty fresh just confused as to why I was slower than I was pre marathon. I remember hearing that its easy to smash your times after marathon training as you have all this new fitness and stamina.

Edited to say I was confused I get what your saying now the fatigue is there even if you can't feel it.

El Caballo wrote: »

You've been running flat out parkruns that are much higher intensity than any speed sessions. Yes, new enough or undertrained runners will see big gains in fitness post marathon but only if they pay attention to recovery post marathon first and that means weeks of recovery. If a freakish 2.03 marathon runner like Kipchoge takes a month of recovery post marathon, that should tell us mere mortals something.

Just to go one further on this. It will also depend on the type of training you were doing for marathon training. Many of those who were on the likes of the Hal Higdon or other introductory plans will indeed be able to knock out PB's shortly after the marathon simply because most of the training was steady paced efforts and the marathon acts as a super session with recover as an adaption period.

If you had plenty of 400s etc as part of your training then you probably will slow as between the taper and the race and recovery you have been away from the sharper sessions you were used to. You will reap the benefits but you probably were a bit sharper throughout you marathon training than most and once you get back to it you may find the benefits. This is why most years 1st weekend in Dec tends to be first proper race week after DCM with people usually opting for shorter (Jingle bells 5k) or long (Waterford HM)

clickerquicklic

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just to go one further on this. It will also depend on the type of training you were doing for marathon training. Many of those who were on the likes of the Hal Higdon or other introductory plans will indeed be able to knock out PB's shortly after the marathon simply because most of the training was steady paced efforts and the marathon acts as a super session with recover as an adaption period.

If you had plenty of 400s etc as part of your training then you probably will slow as between the taper and the race and recovery you have been away from the sharper sessions you were used to. You will reap the benefits but you probably were a bit sharper throughout you marathon training than most and once you get back to it you may find the benefits. This is why most years 1st weekend in Dec tends to be first proper race week after DCM with people usually opting for shorter (Jingle bells 5k) or long (Waterford HM)

Yeah your spot on I did speed work every week of marathon training and 12 x 400's every Thursday haven't done that in over 3 weeks. Thanks.

The Muppet

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Post marathon my parkruns are very slow compared to pre-marathon is this normal ?, I was expecting to actually be much faster and smash my old pb but flat out today I was 50 seconds off my pb .

My parkrun times dropped by 2 minutes during/after marathon training. The good news with a couple of weeks of a 5k plan they returned to normal. Gone again now though I'd imagine

Slow_Runner

Following on with post marathon training I have Waterford half lined up and was curious to what approach to take, took 1st week post marathon off (replaced running with chocolate and beer) and light running last week with a couple of 4-5 mile easy runs with stride outs and 11mile run this morning, question is should I go back to my normal mid week speed sessions (obvs shorter duration) or concentrate on HM paced runs.
As a background i averaged 45 mpw during marathon training peaking at 60 with speed session usually 3-4 sets of 4x400m or pyramid fartleks and 2-5 x 10mins tempo.
Long runs are going to be:
14 mile hilly next week, park run Sat and 12 mile flat run Sun 1 week out from the half - any advise welcome as not sure of best approach. Thanks

adrian522

How much racing is too much racing?

01/01 - Tom Brennan 5K => Thinking about it but probably won't bother
07/01 - Dublin Masters CC
14/01 - Leinster Masters cc
21/01 - No Races
28/01 - Raheny 5 Mile
04/02 - Dungarvan 10 Mile
11/02 - National Masters CC

Is the above too much racing in too short a time? I could drop Raheny I guess and I'm thinking the 5K on New years day is probably not worth it.

BeepBeep67

adrian522 wrote: »

How much racing is too much racing?

01/01 - Tom Brennan 5K => Thinking about it but probably won't bother
07/01 - Dublin Masters CC
14/01 - Leinster Masters cc
21/01 - No Races
28/01 - Raheny 5 Mile
04/02 - Dungarvan 10 Mile
11/02 - National Masters CC

Is the above too much racing in too short a time? I could drop Raheny I guess and I'm thinking the 5K on New years day is probably not worth it.

How little recovery is too little recovery?

adrian522

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

How little recovery is too little recovery?

So drop the road races?

The Black Oil

Still on rest after DCM. Am fine, not injured. Already signed up for 2018. Haven't decided yet on the Jingle Bells 5k, or indeed what to do if going for that.

Thinking of doing the base plan for 6 weeks once again, then looking at a 10k (10k-half plan) in the spring or thereabouts. So it comes down to, a few easy weeks in the lead up Jingle Bells, or starting the base plan before JB.

Edit: neglected to mention training paces and calculator. Normally put a clocked time into a calculator after a race and work on paces from that re future objectives. But, I've forgotten about the best approach here since calculators often seem to work based what you want to run, rather what you have run.

This is the 2016 graduates calculator...http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

skyblue46

Has anyone got any recommendations for reliable gait analysis? I had something I was told was gait analysis in Elverys last year. It was basically a photo from behind the legs which seemed to indicate that the line from the centre of my knee to Achilles and then centre of heel was of an angle that suggested I am an over pronate and need support shoes. I've now been told video should be used to get an accurate result. Help!

Slow_Runner

skyblue46 wrote: »

Has anyone got any recommendations for reliable gait analysis? I had something I was told was gait analysis in Elverys last year. It was basically a photo from behind the legs which seemed to indicate that the line from the centre of my knee to Achilles and then centre of heel was of an angle that suggested I am an over pronate and need support shoes. I've now been told video should be used to get an accurate result. Help!

Go to Run Hub in Ashtown if in Dublin - dedicated running shop with staff how run them selves so k ow what they're talking about, you can get h analysis done free if u buy shoes there or €20 Just for the analysis, Ambhibian King are also good.

skyblue46

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Go to Run Hub in Ashtown if in Dublin - dedicated running shop with staff how run them selves so k ow what they're talking about, you can get h analysis done free if u buy shoes there or €20 Just for the analysis, Ambhibian King are also good.

Great thanks. I've been there a couple of times for gear. It was on a visit to Run Logic that a guy there basically said that 90% of the shoes they sell are neutral and that this whole support shoe thing is poppycock, a marketing tool. It raised questions in my head while at the same time recognising that people can be good at selling their own personal beliefs.

Damo 2k9

Same as above S, the lads in run hub are spot on. I got mine there when I started training and haven't had a problem since, same with my brother and his girlfriend they've been going for years and never any trouble. I go that much for stuff I'd say they're sick of the sight of me!

BeepBeep67

adrian522 wrote: »

So drop the road races?

I'd just be asking what are you sacrificing by racing 7 times in 6 weeks.

What are your priorities and where would you like to be at the end of those 6 weeks?
Will your long run suffer or can you do that mid-week?
Will the race be your only 'session' that week?
Will you race them all or use some as tempo efforts?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer btw, and I do know some serial racers that perform very well.

EDit

Anyone on here ever suffered from sciatica/periformis syndrome and, if so, any recommendations for how to address in terms of being able to run pain free? Tried normal NSAIDs (neurofen) before the run and does help a bit, but wondered if anyone else has any other ideas to get me through a long run this coming weekend? The pain is not that bad that I have to stop, but gets uncomfortable in my left buttock, hip, knee and ankle after several KMs

adrian522

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I'd just be asking what are you sacrificing by racing 7 times in 6 weeks.

What are your priorities and where would you like to be at the end of those 6 weeks?
Will your long run suffer or can you do that mid-week?
Will the race be your only 'session' that week?
Will you race them all or use some as tempo efforts?

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer btw, and I do know some serial racers that perform very well.

I think the priorities for me are the 3 CC races. Going by last year I would say the long run probably would suffer but I guess I could look to get it in mid-week.

When I entered Dungarvan I wasn't thinking about the schedule and realistically that one is one that could get dropped or run as a session of some description. Same for Raheny I guess.

I usually limit my racing a lot more than this as I find it hard to "get up" for many races in a short period of time.

With the above schedule I wouldn't imagine I'd be doing many sessions mid-week, the race would be the main session of the week.

BeepBeep67

EDit wrote: »

Anyone on here ever suffered from sciatica/periformis syndrome and, if so, any recommendations for how to address in terms of being able to run pain free? Tried normal NSAIDs (neurofen) before the run and does help a bit, but wondered if anyone else has any other ideas to get me through a long run this coming weekend? The pain is not that bad that I have to stop, but gets uncomfortable in my left buttock, hip, knee and ankle after several KMs

#1 go and see a specialist to identify the underlying issue and develop a treatment plan.

Treatment typical involves deep tissue massage to release the area, dry needling works well.
For the piriformis the figure of 4 stretch works and you can progress to doing it on a foam roller or hard (but not solid) ball.

A core routing will help with prevention, you tube is your friend, clams, bridges, planks, single leg squats, etc.

Start with #1

ger664

EDit wrote:

Tried normal NSAIDs (neurofen) before the run and does help a bit

Pain is your body telling you to stop. If it, is still present after a warmup then it needs, rest. Masking the pain and then training is only going to make the issue worse. As, previous poster, outlined have a professional evaluate it.

EDit

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

#1 go and see a specialist to identify the underlying issue and develop a treatment plan.

Treatment typical involves deep tissue massage to release the area, dry needling works well.
For the piriformis the figure of 4 stretch works and you can progress to doing it on a foam roller or hard (but not solid) ball.

A core routing will help with prevention, you tube is your friend, clams, bridges, planks, single leg squats, etc.

Start with #1

[QOUTE]Pain is your body telling you to stop. If it, is still present after a warmup then it needs, rest. Masking the pain and then training is only going to make the issue worse. As, previous poster, outlined have a professional evaluate it[/QUOTE]

Thanks both, you were right about seeing a specialist. Had second session of deep massage and dry needling today and, although the immediate area feels sore from the manipulation, the leg, knee, and ankle pain has gone. I ‘ve been cleared to run Sunday, but told to take it easy for at least 2 weeks after to allow full resolution.

EC1000

EDit wrote: »

Thanks both, you were right about seeing a specialist. Had second session of deep massage and dry needling today and, although the immediate area feels sore from the manipulation, the leg, knee, and ankle pain has gone. I ‘ve been cleared to run Sunday, but told to take it easy for at least 2 weeks after to allow full resolution.

Be careful with piriformis issues. I made the mistake of trying to battle through it a couple of years ago and set myself back weeks as a result. In addition to needling and stretching, rest from running was essential.

EDit

EC1000 wrote: »

Be careful with piriformis issues. I made the mistake of trying to battle through it a couple of years ago and set myself back weeks as a result. In addition to needling and stretching, rest from running was essential.

Thanks, appreciate the advise. I fully intend to take it easy (no PBs) and have no issues with stopping and walking if the body tells me do do that

Tom.D.BJJ

I'm plodding my way through C25K.  As part of my last run on week 6, I did a parkrun (42mins, with one 60 second walk break at 28mins).  The morning following the parkrun the inside my left knee was quite sore.  I simply rested for a few days and used a bit of voltarol.  I did my second run of week 7 yesterday (25mins, no intervals) and it went fine.  Felt the same pain in my left knee last night, right knee no issue. I suspect its because i roll my left foot from outside (heel) to inside (big toe).
Is there any recommendations on a specialist i can go to to get my knee checked, as I'm not sure my GP would be the best person to speak to?

rainbow kirby

Physiotherapist would generally be more helpful - they would generally give you some strengthening exercises and possibly some shoe advice as well as some on the spot treatment.