Random Running Questions

Swashbuckler

HelenAnne wrote:

Slow down in the heat, is that the advice (or ignore it :-))

Ignore it

HelenAnne

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Ignore it

Pretend I'm in Kenya!

Swashbuckler

HelenAnne wrote:

Pretend I'm in Kenya!

Pretend you're a Kenyan would work better

The Black Oil

Wondering about training paces now re DCM, with two recent results. 10k - 53:39 and 5k, 23:06. What's the best way to proceed now with training, and taking calculators with a grain of salt? Keeping slowing things down in mind too.

Huzzah!

The Black Oil wrote: »

Wondering about training paces now re DCM, with two recent results. 10k - 53:39 and 5k, 23:06. What's the best way to proceed now with training, and taking calculators with a grain of salt? Keeping slowing things down in mind too.

I made these notes when I briefly looked at Meno: "At least 10% Slower than MP or 30-40% slower than current 5k pace. HR: in and around 75% Max HR- never over 80% Max at any stage of an easy run." Seems to be from the man himself: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85317387

ariana`

The Black Oil wrote: »

Wondering about training paces now re DCM, with two recent results. 10k - 53:39 and 5k, 23:06. What's the best way to proceed now with training, and taking calculators with a grain of salt? Keeping slowing things down in mind too.

TBO I asked a similar question recently and got the advice to use paces based on my 5k time (these would be my fastest paces) for short sessions - intervals etc. But for long runs and progression type runs i'm using paces based on my longer distance race times (10m/HM) which are slower paces. I'm in the fortunate position to have raced every distance from 5k-HM in the past 4 weeks so my times are all recent. My HM predicts a marathon time of 4:01 but i am going to base MP on 4:10 as i think for now that is more realistic but MP doesn't really factor in the grads plan as such.

I'm using the runfastcoach calculator which i know you have used previously.

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

MP doesn't really factor in the grads plan as such.

Actually (and I'm very open to correction on this as I might be misinterpreting wildly), I think it does. I thought it didn't at first, because what I expect will be my MP doesn't feature, but that seems to be because like you I expect to be running a lot slower than calculator predictions based on shorter races. But if I go with the calculator attached the plan, then the MP it predicts for me falls within the range of Tempo pace, of which there is an awful lot on the plan! So I think maybe this is MP? Like I said, open to correction on this!

RayCun

eyrie wrote: »

But if I go with the calculator attached the plan, then the MP it predicts for me falls within the range of Tempo pace, of which there is an awful lot on the plan! So I think maybe this is MP? Like I said, open to correction on this!

Tempo pace is faster than MP - usually the pace you could hold in a race for 60 minutes
In training, the longest tempos you'd do would be about 30 minutes, or 2 x 20 minutes. A marathon pace session would involve longer runs at MP

Testosterscone

RayCun wrote: »

eyrie wrote: »

But if I go with the calculator attached the plan, then the MP it predicts for me falls within the range of Tempo pace, of which there is an awful lot on the plan! So I think maybe this is MP? Like I said, open to correction on this!

Tempo pace is faster than MP - usually the pace you could hold in a race for 60 minutes
In training, the longest tempos you'd do would be about 30 minutes, or 2 x 20 minutes. A marathon pace session would involve longer runs at MP

Actually for the purposes of the plan Ray eyrie is relatively spot on. The pace is slightly faster than MP for those who need a bit of aerobic development but the aim is for the physiological response of AeT (Aerobic threshold or generally the pace you can hold for 2 hours)

The idea of working at MP here is generally a bit too slow for those who might be a little lacking on aerobic side (i.e huge drop off in performance as go up in distance) because the plan is done off time though they arent overcooking it.

The labelling is a bit of a misnomer but is used simply because that is what the caluculator uses as terminology so makes it easy for explaining in the spreadsheet.

eyrie

Testosterscone wrote: »

Actually for the purposes of the plan Ray eyrie is relatively spot on. The pace is slightly faster than MP for those who need a bit of aerobic development but the aim is for the physiological response of AeT (Aerobic threshold or generally the pace you can hold for 2 hours)

The idea of working at MP here is generally a bit too slow for those who might be a little lacking on aerobic side (i.e huge drop off in performance as go up in distance) because the plan is done off time though they arent overcooking it.

The labelling is a bit of a misnomer but is used simply because that is what the caluculator uses as terminology so makes it easy for explaining in the spreadsheet.

Ahh, makes sense now, thanks! That's how it looked to me but I couldn't figure out why/didn't really understand what was behind it. Sounds more useful for someone like me now actually, so thanks for the info

skyblue46

eyrie wrote: »

Actually (and I'm very open to correction on this as I might be misinterpreting wildly), I think it does. I thought it didn't at first, because what I expect will be my MP doesn't feature, but that seems to be because like you I expect to be running a lot slower than calculator predictions based on shorter races. But if I go with the calculator attached the plan, then the MP it predicts for me falls within the range of Tempo pace, of which there is an awful lot on the plan! So I think maybe this is MP? Like I said, open to correction on this!

Yeah I'd agree with you. I did a progression run this week and 2 paces were slower than I expect my pmp to be, 1 was pretty close and 2 were faster. They may not be called marathon pace but there are lots of miles at moderate pace which equates to my pmp.

Sorry, I now see this has been replied to by Testosterscone...

ariana`

eyrie wrote: »

Actually (and I'm very open to correction on this as I might be misinterpreting wildly), I think it does. I thought it didn't at first, because what I expect will be my MP doesn't feature, but that seems to be because like you I expect to be running a lot slower than calculator predictions based on shorter races. But if I go with the calculator attached the plan, then the MP it predicts for me falls within the range of Tempo pace, of which there is an awful lot on the plan! So I think maybe this is MP? Like I said, open to correction on this!

eyrie i actually meant is that the terminology 'MP' doesn't feature in the Grads plan. We don't need to have a PMP as such to follow the plan, we just need to use the paces from the calculator and the plan. This is actually something i like about the plan as picking a target time now goes against the principle of training to current fitness and letting the target time come, rather than training to a arbitrary target time and forcing the fitness. But i don't doubt we will still have plenty of 'pace' miles done, we just may not be conscious of it.

RIGOLO

Whats peoples thoughts on 'Stairs Machine'  , and its benefits for running ?
I can recognise theres benefits for trails running,  developing power-hiking ability, more core and hip flexors, but I was wondering what the thoughts are on any benefits that would transition to regular road running. Could the 'stairs machine'  form part of a regular road running training program ?
Its the only piece of equipment Ive not tried ergularly in gyms in my time, 25+ years using the threadmill is getting boring and putting the threadmill on an incline I find its getting more impactful on the body.

Enduro

RIGOLO wrote: »

Whats peoples thoughts on 'Stairs Machine'  , and its benefits for running ?
I can recognise theres benefits for trails running,  developing power-hiking ability, more core and hip flexors, but I was wondering what the thoughts are on any benefits that would transition to regular road running. Could the 'stairs machine'  form part of a regular road running training program ?
Its the only piece of equipment Ive not tried ergularly in gyms in my time, 25+ years using the threadmill is getting boring and putting the threadmill on an incline I find its getting more impactful on the body.

Funnily enough came across this article today, which is quite positive about them (25+ years would suggest relevance!)

Bredabe

Any ideas on gadgets the will measure newbies run in miles? it's only in the planning stages, so nothing expensive or complicated to use.


* apologies if this has been asked a million times already.

skyblue46

Bredabe wrote: »

Any ideas on gadgets the will measure newbies run in miles? it's only in the planning stages, so nothing expensive or complicated to use.


* apologies if this has been asked a million times already.

A running watch...a mobile phone with Strava app...

Singer

skyblue46 wrote: »

A running watch...a mobile phone with Strava app...

The Nike+ app did me grand for my first year or so of proper running. The Strava app is better these days. No need for a running watch unless you're doing getting serious with sessions etc.

There's good advice along these lines here, along with some good pointers to decent running watches: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-running-watch/

RIGOLO

Enduro wrote: »

RIGOLO wrote: »

Whats peoples thoughts on 'Stairs Machine'  , and its benefits for running ?
I can recognise theres benefits for trails running,  developing power-hiking ability, more core and hip flexors, but I was wondering what the thoughts are on any benefits that would transition to regular road running. Could the 'stairs machine'  form part of a regular road running training program ?
Its the only piece of equipment Ive not tried ergularly in gyms in my time, 25+ years using the threadmill is getting boring and putting the threadmill on an incline I find its getting more impactful on the body.

Funnily enough  came across this article today, which is quite positive about them (25+ years would suggest relevance!)

Thanks for that, very interesting insights in it alright. What a great community theres is here. 
Perhaps combos would work, instead of 50 mins on the treadmill, 40 mins on another less jarring machine to get the HR up etc and then move to the treadmill for last 15 mins. I use the rowing machine alot as I did that as a young 'un.  
 
As I aged Ive learned to listen to older athletes more and more. I mean I am old but when Im battling against a 70yr old running sub 20 5ks, it makes me feel young again to chat after the runs with him and discuss his training tips.  
Theres a world of advice in those grey hairs you may be flying by in your events , plus their anecdotes about racing tend to be very amusing as the memories are more about real events and less about strava segments and graphs (which Im not knocking, just saying theres a place for both).

Assassin saphir

RIGOLO wrote:

Whats peoples thoughts on 'Stairs Machine' , and its benefits for running ? I can recognise theres benefits for trails running, developing power-hiking ability, more core and hip flexors, but I was wondering what the thoughts are on any benefits that would transition to regular road running. Could the 'stairs machine' form part of a regular road running training program ? Its the only piece of equipment Ive not tried ergularly in gyms in my time, 25+ years using the threadmill is getting boring and putting the threadmill on an incline I find its getting more impactful on the body.

I have been using the stairmaster 3 to 4 times a week since January as my warmup before my weight session. I do 10 mins each time of varying speeds from level 12 upwards. I do a few variations taking 2 steps at a time, side step on each side and then push for 2 minutes on level 20 which initially was very tough. I then work back down through the levels finishing around 10. While I wouldn't class myself as a good runner as I have had alot of knee injury the difference in my lung strength is unbelievable. I feel I can keep going longer without getting out of breath and my legs don't get tired as early either. It has helped me move from 5k to 10k with ease. It could be due to the combination of weight training but my breathing is alot more controlled and I don't end my run anymore with a big red face gasping for air.
I found some good tutorials online for the stairmaster and how to use correct form to get the most out of it.

chickey2

Can someone explain to me how to do a pyramid session? I've done a couple of runs on the grass track that Bros Pearse marked out at cherryfield but I don't really know what I'm doing.

It's a 300m track so I've just been running 300m by marking my start with my water bottle, running back to it, doing the recovery and then dropping the bottle again.

If I was to do 200/400/600/400/200 with 75 s recovery how do I go about it? I have a garmin but I don't know how accurate it is on the track.

liamoreilly

...So for the 80th time, in starting to get back into running- Attempting half marathon in September so it's time I get my ass in gear...I've managed a small number of runs, although small...Today was my best, managed 4.6km @6.20km pace...The issue I'm actually having is the pace...My first km was 5.40, and the slower km have the walk included...
...My issue is I'm running too fast, but I am struggling to go slower...Is it normal for me to find it more uncomfortable thr slower I go?...As in If I run approx 7.0km pace i find it uncomfortable and unsustainable...
...My target for the half marathon is to finish it with as few walking periods as possible, I really don't care about time...So any advice/suggestions, or just keep doing it?...

RIGOLO

liamoreilly wrote: »

...So for the 80th time, in starting to get back into running- Attempting half marathon in September so it's time I get my ass in gear...I've managed a small number of runs, although small...Today was my best, managed 4.6km @6.20km pace...The issue I'm actually having is the pace...My first km was 5.40, and the slower km have the walk included...
...My issue is I'm running too fast, but I am struggling to go slower...Is it normal for me to find it more uncomfortable thr slower I go?...As in If I run approx 7.0km pace i find it uncomfortable and unsustainable...
...My target for the half marathon is to finish it with as few walking periods as possible, I really don't care about time...So any advice/suggestions, or just keep doing it?...

it might be a bit of a hack but find some hills in your area and incorporate them into your run, even if its just short sections or steps, this will force you to slow the pace knowing a hill lies ahead it , plus you have the benefits of hill running.
If thats not an option then develop a proper training plan,   and write it down and emphasise the easy days after a hard day. you will apreciate running slow on an easy day if you did hard work previously.
And if you still cant slow down , and considering your getting back into running try building your aerobic base without running by doing cycling, or machines in the gym . 
And if you still cant slow the pace buy a few ankle weights, and if after all that you still cant slow down then face facts.. your a fast runner. :-)

Burkie1203

liamoreilly wrote: »

...So for the 80th time, in starting to get back into running- Attempting half marathon in September so it's time I get my ass in gear...I've managed a small number of runs, although small...Today was my best, managed 4.6km @6.20km pace...The issue I'm actually having is the pace...My first km was 5.40, and the slower km have the walk included...
...My issue is I'm running too fast, but I am struggling to go slower...Is it normal for me to find it more uncomfortable thr slower I go?...As in If I run approx 7.0km pace i find it uncomfortable and unsustainable...
...My target for the half marathon is to finish it with as few walking periods as possible, I really don't care about time...So any advice/suggestions, or just keep doing it?...

Get a Garmin and monitor the pace

Go to parkrun and start at the back. Tag onto someone doing a 30 min parkrun

Huzzah!

I spotted a push-button tap attached to a fire hydrant on my run on Sunday. Does anyone know if there's a way to check if the water is potable, without, you know, trying it and keeping my fingers crossed?

RayCun

chickey2 wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how to do a pyramid session? I've done a couple of runs on the grass track that Bros Pearse marked out at cherryfield but I don't really know what I'm doing.

It's a 300m track so I've just been running 300m by marking my start with my water bottle, running back to it, doing the recovery and then dropping the bottle again.

If I was to do 200/400/600/400/200 with 75 s recovery how do I go about it? I have a garmin but I don't know how accurate it is on the track.

The pyramid session we do there is
300 (lap of track)
600 (lap of field)
1000 (go through gap in hedge into next field, follow the edge around to fence and back to start)
1600 (into next field, and into the field after)
1000
600
300
with recovery of half the interval time, paces decreasing as intervals get longer

If you want to do shorter distances, there are marks every 100m on the track (but there are also marks between 100m and 200m)
The finish line is near the car park. 100m from there is just past the first goal posts. 100m further on is near the traffic lights. Your garmin won't be very accurate on the bends, you need to use the track markings.

chickey2

RayCun wrote: »

The pyramid session we do there is
300 (lap of track)
600 (lap of field)
1000 (go through gap in hedge into next field, follow the edge around to fence and back to start)
1600 (into next field, and into the field after)
1000
600
300
with recovery of half the interval time, paces decreasing as intervals get longer

If you want to do shorter distances, there are marks every 100m on the track (but there are also marks between 100m and 200m)
The finish line is near the car park. 100m from there is just past the first goal posts. 100m further on is near the traffic lights. Your garmin won't be very accurate on the bends, you need to use the track markings.

Thanks Ray that's really helpful!

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

The pyramid session we do there is
300 (lap of track)
600 (lap of field)
1000 (go through gap in hedge into next field, follow the edge around to fence and back to start)
1600 (into next field, and into the field after)
1000
600
300
with recovery of half the interval time, paces decreasing as intervals get longer

If you want to do shorter distances, there are marks every 100m on the track (but there are also marks between 100m and 200m)
The finish line is near the car park. 100m from there is just past the first goal posts. 100m further on is near the traffic lights. Your garmin won't be very accurate on the bends, you need to use the track markings.

Would be easier to just join the club session and follow someone around!

chickey2

Murph_D wrote: »

Would be easier to just join the club session and follow someone around!

RayCun

Murph_D wrote: »

Would be easier to just join the club session and follow someone around!

That's what I keep telling her!

Supercell

Whats the fastest half marathon course in Ireland (Including N Ireland).
I ran the Clontarf half last weekend, it was flat but the beach section was hard going so I imagine there must be faster ones around?