Random Running Questions

Zipppy

Started intervals last week..feels good...realistically how long will it take to see some speed improvements? Intend doing 2 intervals sessions..1 10k and 2 5 k a week...

Zipppy

Started intervals last week..feels good...realistically how long will it take to see some speed improvements? Intend doing 2 intervals sessions..1 10k and 2 5 k a week...

Tigerandahalf

Zipppy wrote: »

Started intervals last week..feels good...realistically how long will it take to see some speed improvements? Intend doing 2 intervals sessions..1 10k and 2 5 k a week...

You are not doing enough easy miles.
I wouldn't bother with intervals.
If you want to make progress try to run 5 times a week. It is then that you see the gradual fitness improvement.

Mon rest
Tues 5 miles easy (with 100m x 5 strides)
Wed 5 miles (2 miles warm up/2 miles at tempo pace/mile cooldown)
Thurs 5 miles easy
Fri rest
Saturday 5 miles
Sunday 8 miles easy

That brings you up to about 30 miles which if you do for about a month you will have a good base to go further.

If you want to do a good parkrun, up the Tues 2 miles to 3. That will give you an indication of your 5k pace.

The tempo pace should be about 30 seconds slower than your current 5k pace.
The intervals can be run at your current 5k pace (or a little faster as you get fitter).

Goose76

400m intervals - what are the pros and cons of walking for the slow parts instead of doing a slow jog? or stopping completely?

BeepBeep67

Goose76 wrote: »

400m intervals - what are the pros and cons of walking for the slow parts instead of doing a slow jog? or stopping completely?

Depends on the purpose of the session

Goose76

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Depends on the purpose of the session

Thanks, just general speed improvements, I suppose. I'm following the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 training plan. Suggested 400m intervals at 5k pace with 'walk or jog' in between.

Zipppy

Goose76 wrote:

Thanks, just general speed improvements, I suppose. I'm following the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 training plan. Suggested 400m intervals at 5k pace with 'walk or jog' in between.

I'm curious about this...would you not be better just doing a 5k? I don't see how intervals of 5k pace are used can benefit?

Swashbuckler

Goose76 wrote:

Thanks, just general speed improvements, I suppose. I'm following the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 training plan. Suggested 400m intervals at 5k pace with 'walk or jog' in between.

Funny you ask this question. A lads log that I follow on here had a similar session and I asked the purpose. Ended up reading up a bit on it. In the context of that plan I'd say it's purely for leg turnover and a bit of vo2 max. If you can jog the recoveries then great but not at the expense of executing each 400m rep as well as your first one.

Zipppy wrote:

I'm curious about this...would you not be better just doing a 5k? I don't see how intervals of 5k pace are used can benefit?

That doesn't really make sense though. Why would anyone ever do interval training in that case. The purpose is to get gains with minimum stress. 400m intervals is a great session and you're ready to run again the next day. The rest periods also reduce the risk of injury. Running 5k races all the time will just increase your risk of injury and wear you out in the process.

BeepBeep67

Goose76 wrote: »

Thanks, just general speed improvements, I suppose. I'm following the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 training plan. Suggested 400m intervals at 5k pace with 'walk or jog' in between.

At 5k pace I would suggest a short recovery (1 min or less) and the number of repetitions relatively high (12-16), race distance in total at least.

400m at 5k pace shouldn't be too taxing, but the aim of the session would be to get you feeling comfortable at 5k pace.

The aim would be to run each one at a relaxed pace, with little or no variation in the pace for each one, this is easier said than done, but discipline in the early ones should be the focus.

The recovery should be just long enough that you recover sufficiently enough to be able to complete the session as above.

Ideally, over time you maintain the pace and shorten the recovery (end state 16 x 400 off 30 seconds recovery) or increase the distance of each rep , but don't go over the total workout distance and maintain the recovery (end state 5 x 1k off 1min recovery).

This is more speed endurance, to focus more on speed increase the pace and lengthen the recovery. 3k or 1 mile pace, with 90 second or 2 minute recoveries.

The stand, walk or jog decision for me is based on intensity, at 5k pace I'd keep moving as I don't want my hr to drop too low in the recovery phase, for more intense work I want to be nailing the pace on each rep, so a very slow jog, walk with a stop before starting again works.

Itziger

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm curious about this...would you not be better just doing a 5k? I don't see how intervals of 5k pace are used can benefit?

Jesus, Zippy, it's not that difficult!! I asked you a few posts back if you were racing all those 5ks in training and you kinda admitted you are (or were, at least). Imagine a coach saying to an elite runner, 'Here's the plan for next month: Race a 5k on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays..... a slower (geddit?) 8k run on Sundays and that's it!!!!!'

The most obvious reason for doing a session of 12X400@5K pace as opposed to just racing the entire 5k is that you can recover quite quickly from it and you're good to do another decent effort 2 or 3 days later. Improvement comes from adaptation and recovery and steady, consistent training. Then you have to stress the body in different ways. Simply doing 12x400s all the bloody time would probably be as counter productive as running all your 5ks at race pace. There are lots and lots of ways of improving speed endurance and there's no one way or magic bullet.

That said there are probably two ways of not improving your race times. One is racing all your training runs and the other is jogging all of them. There is even a small body of evidence which suggests that the second approach may be beneficial for some athletes.

Do a bit of research and listen to the coaches and experienced posters on here (even though I'm older than most, I wouldn't consider myself too well informed or one of the more knowledgeable on here).

I'll finish up by revisiting your comment above. What about working on form, for example. Run all the 4s with correct form and cadence. Don't get ragged. Breathe properly. Warm up and cool down properly. Do some easy runs and a few days later you're ready and in good shape for another type of session. Might be a few 200s at faster than 5k pace, a few mile reps at 10k pace and finish up with a couple of 200s again at faster. Now that's just me pulling figures out of me asre (if ya know what I mean) but you have to do more than just race 5ks a few days a week!

Lazare

Are professional pacers a thing?

Not that I'd consider being the vendor of such a service, but I think I'd gladly pay. Would others?

If they're not a thing, why are they not a thing?

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

Are professional pacers a thing?

Not that I'd consider being the vendor of such a service, but I think I'd gladly pay. Would others?

If they're not a thing, why are they not a thing?

They are a thing. Many of the international track meets use them for middle distance races. For example they would be assigned with taking the field through 400m, 800m at a certain pace in 1500m races

Lazare

Sorry, should have been clearer. I mean for average Joes like myself looking to hit a goal time in a target road race.

RayCun

Lazare wrote: »

Sorry, should have been clearer. I mean for average Joes like myself looking to hit a goal time in a target road race.

Some races organize pacers, DCM, Charleville...

Lazare

RayCun wrote: »

Some races organize pacers, DCM, Charleville...

Yep, but races that don't.

5ks for instance.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

5ks for instance.

I'm sure the decent folk on here would help for free

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'm sure the decent folk on here would help for free

I was thinking of it, of buying someone in and them pacing me. Then I thought it a little less rude to offer to pay for the service.

I would think there to be a market for it. A lot of struggling pro athletes out there, and a lot of people like me.

Lazare

Maybe I'll become an agent.

OOnegative

Lazare wrote: »

Yep, but races that don't.

5ks for instance.

Pay me the right money and i’ll carry you out n my shoulders to a 5k PB!!!

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Maybe I'll become an agent.

Any particular race in mind for the pb attempt?

Lazare

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Any particular race in mind for the pb attempt?

Not yet, possibly Bob Heffernan. Timing fits. Not sure if I'm being a bit silly but a Tue night race is a bit off putting. Would rather a weekend morning attempt.

RayCun

Day of 5000 pbs has pacers

Lazare

RayCun wrote: »

Day of 5000 pbs has pacers

Definitely signing up for that. I'll be race ready late May so I'll have a crack then. Day of Irish pbs is July so good timing for another crack at it, or hopefully a crack at a new one.

Swiper the fox

Lazare wrote: »

Definitely signing up for that. I'll be race ready late May so I'll have a crack then. Day of Irish pbs is July so good timing for another crack at it, or hopefully a crack at a new one.

Just being nosey here, what sort of 5k time do you think would you be capable of with pacing? That's a distance that I don't think a pacer would help me with, go out quick and hang in there for dear life

Lazare

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Just being nosey here, what sort of 5k time do you think would you be capable of with pacing? That's a distance that I don't think a pacer would help me with, go out quick and hang in there for dear life

Goal is sub 20.

Have 51 seconds to shave. Have never trained specifically for the distance before so I'm confident.

Got my current pb with the very kind help of a very nice boardsie.

skyblue46

Lazare wrote: »

Goal is sub 20.

Have 51 seconds to shave. Have never trained specifically for the distance before so I'm confident.

Got my current pb with the very kind help of a very nice boardsie.

It is a good question though. How much benefit do you think it can be. Someone can only run at the pace you suggest is realistic. A Pacer setting off at 18 min pace would be no help to you. A watch can show you if you are on target. Is it purely for the vocal support?

BeepBeep67

Lazare wrote: »

Goal is sub 20.

Have 51 seconds to shave. Have never trained specifically for the distance before so I'm confident.

Got my current pb with the very kind help of a very nice boardsie.

I pace sub 20 at the Shanganagh parkrun several times a year, let me know when you think you are shape and I'll see if the timing suits.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

It is a good question though. How much benefit do you think it can be. Someone can only run at the pace you suggest is realistic. A Pacer setting off at 18 min pace would be no help to you. A watch can show you if you are on target. Is it purely for the vocal support?

Agree but if you are close to sub 20 then you can be sure a sub 20 pacer will help. It's the equivalent of getting pulled along by a group in a race.

Lazare

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I pace sub 20 at the Shanganagh parkrun several times a year, let me know when you think you are shape and I'll see if the timing suits.

Fair play, thanks so much.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Agree but if you are close to sub 20 then you can be sure a sub 20 pacer will help. It's the equivalent of getting pulled along by a group in a race.

Agreed. What would you reckon? It's worth 20/30 secs? I'd have no idea myself :pac: