Random Running Questions

bucketybuck

Is there such thing as a beginners ultra run?

I was curious about pushing past marathon distance and perhaps trying a 50km run, purely for the personal challenge and to see if I can do it.

I saw a 50km run advertised recently but when I looked into it the tone was very much a case of "beginners not welcome", "if you can't do this pace you will be told to get off the track", "you losers shouldn't be here".

I believe I could have done it in the time allowed but here's the thing, I don't know, I've never done one, I don't know what it will be like for me after 42kms. I'd like to find out but I don't particularly want some smug prick rolling his eyes at me should I do something wrong either.

Are there any of those longer distance runs that are a bit more receptive to first timers?

Djoucer

I think the race you’re referring was a bit tongue In cheek. It was the Irish championships and the race has a character of its own. By all accounts, it’s a friendly race.

Maurice Mullins race is coming up, across Wicklow Way. V relaxed and friendly. And cheap.

bucketybuck

Djoucer wrote: »

I think the race you’re referring was a bit tongue In cheek.

No doubt, which is why I don't want to name it, but tongue in cheek or not the rhetoric used was off-putting to first timers.

Which is fine, they are allowed to focus on more established competitors, I was just wondering if there were alternatives that had a different focus.

Itziger

It's only 10% further than a marathon.......

chris85

Djoucer wrote: »

I think the race you’re referring was a bit tongue In cheek. It was the Irish championships and the race has a character of its own. By all accounts, it’s a friendly race.

Maurice Mullins race is coming up, across Wicklow Way. V relaxed and friendly. And cheap.

Ill be giving the Maurice Mullins Ultra a go as first Ultra this year so should be interesting. Done the Maurice Mullins trail version (25km) last year and enjoyed it but hills are tough at times. Some great sections of running through the trails to really enjoy.

Hoping for better weather than last year.

TFBubendorfer

Itziger wrote: »

It's only 10% further than a marathon.......

20% ... :rolleyes:

I'm not being passive aggressive, just pedantic

TFBubendorfer

bucketybuck wrote: »

No doubt, which is why I don't want to name it, but tongue in cheek or not the rhetoric used was off-putting to first timers.

Which is fine, they are allowed to focus on more established competitors, I was just wondering if there were alternatives that had a different focus.

That race which you're referring to has always been a great starting point for the ultra and probably half the ultra runners in Ireland have ran it as their first one, so it's definitely first-timer friendly.

The race has its own character, as mentioned, but the "abuse" dished out is always strictly tongue-in-cheek, and nobody was ever actually pulled kicking-and-screaming off the course for being too slow.

Having said that, the same RD is also organising another race in June, and when asked for the cut-off time the answer was "Monday".

What Username Guidelines

Started C25k in October and worked myself up to 5k, then worked that 5k down to sub-30min. That was about 3 weeks ago and I havent been able to do it since, I get tired and weak around 3.5-4km. Anyway, went to donate blood and my haemoglobin levels were just under the limit. I looked back through the donation sheet, and sure enough, the levels were dropping at each donation every 4 weeks, since I started the C25k, and the nurses reckoned it was due to the running. I assumed it would need to be higher intensity training to have such an impact, but there you go. I'm not looking for medical advice as I've yet to see my GP, but has anyone else experienced similar?

El CabaIIo

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Started C25k in October and worked myself up to 5k, then worked that 5k down to sub-30min. That was about 3 weeks ago and I havent been able to do it since, I get tired and weak around 3.5-4km. Anyway, went to donate blood and my haemoglobin levels were just under the limit. I looked back through the donation sheet, and sure enough, the levels were dropping at each donation every 4 weeks, since I started the C25k, and the nurses reckoned it was due to the running. I assumed it would need to be higher intensity training to have such an impact, but there you go. I'm not looking for medical advice as I've yet to see my GP, but has anyone else experienced similar?

Were all your runs a hard as you could run for 5k? If so, that's pretty high intensity as you arent supposed to run hard all the time, most of your running should be easy comfortable jogging but a lot of people will get it just off moderate or easy running as well if their diet doesn't support their lifestyle.

Haemoglobin will go down with hard training and if you are prone to getting anaemic or having low levels, it's something you'll have to keep an eye on either through diet of supplementation of iron and maybe b12. The important part to remember is that it is not running that is primarily the cause of it, it's finding a balanced diet with intakes of essential nutrients to support that extra activity.

Any regular exercise will deplete iron levels more than sitting on the couch. It's why if you go to the Doc for blood tests and they say you are in the normal range, if you say I'm a runner or active person, they'll have a second look as your minimum requirements will need to be higher as your body is working harder than the average population.

What Username Guidelines

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Were all your runs a hard as you could run for 5k? If so, that's pretty high intensity as you arent supposed to run hard all the time, most of your running should be easy comfortable jogging but a lot of people will get it just off moderate or easy running as well if their diet doesn't support their lifestyle.

Haemoglobin will go down with hard training and if you are prone to getting anaemic or having low levels, it's something you'll have to keep an eye on either through diet of supplementation of iron and maybe b12. The important part to remember is that it is not running that is primarily the cause of it, it's finding a balanced diet with intakes of essential nutrients to support that extra activity.

Any regular exercise will deplete iron levels more than sitting on the couch. It's why if you go to the Doc for blood tests and they say you are in the normal range, if you say I'm a runner or active person, they'll have a second look as your minimum requirements will need to be higher as your body is working harder than the average population.

Good advice, thank you. I wouldnt say they were very hard, but there were times throughout the first few weeks where I naively pushed myself and ended up needing to repeat C25k days, but the later runs felt more comfortable when I felt the weakness, if that makes sense. I am having issues with pacing, starting closer to 5min/km but averaging 6min, etc, but I am getting a bit better at consistency.

I am generally active, cycling 130km a week too, but this is adding 3 runs per week and also adjusting diet in an attempt to shift a little weight. I'm guessing I've messed up with input/output and pace/frequency of runs.

Itziger

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

20% ... :rolleyes:

I'm not being passive aggressive, just pedantic

Hehe!!! I'll have to bend the knee on this one.

20%........ Oh, dear.

Rocky Seven

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That race which you're referring to has always been a great starting point for the ultra and probably half the ultra runners in Ireland have ran it as their first one, so it's definitely first-timer friendly.

The race has its own character, as mentioned, but the "abuse" dished out is always strictly tongue-in-cheek, and nobody was ever actually pulled kicking-and-screaming off the course for being too slow.

Having said that, the same RD is also organising another race in June, and when asked for the cut-off time the answer was "Monday".

Its also says fookin snowflakes need not apply.... Me a smug prick?.. Iv been called worse

TFBubendorfer

Rocky Seven wrote: »

Its also says fookin snowflakes need not apply

You let me run! Even in compression socks!!

Rocky Seven

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That race which you're referring to has always been a great starting point for the ultra and probably 95% of the ultra runners in Ireland have ran it as their first one, so it's definitely first-timer friendly.
".

Fyp.... im not pedantic... Im smug

PaulieC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is there such thing as a beginners ultra run?

I was curious about pushing past marathon distance and perhaps trying a 50km run, purely for the personal challenge and to see if I can do it.

I saw a 50km run advertised recently but when I looked into it the tone was very much a case of "beginners not welcome", "if you can't do this pace you will be told to get off the track", "you losers shouldn't be here".

I believe I could have done it in the time allowed but here's the thing, I don't know, I've never done one, I don't know what it will be like for me after 42kms. I'd like to find out but I don't particularly want some smug prick rolling his eyes at me should I do something wrong either.

Are there any of those longer distance runs that are a bit more receptive to first timers?

http://www.iplayoutside.com/Events/2000/12/2037c.html this might be the one you're looking for

skyblue46

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Good advice, thank you. I wouldnt say they were very hard, but there were times throughout the first few weeks where I naively pushed myself and ended up needing to repeat C25k days, but the later runs felt more comfortable when I felt the weakness, if that makes sense. I am having issues with pacing, starting closer to 5min/km but averaging 6min, etc, but I am getting a bit better at consistency.

I am generally active, cycling 130km a week too, but this is adding 3 runs per week and also adjusting diet in an attempt to shift a little weight. I'm guessing I've messed up with input/output and pace/frequency of runs.

Unless you have gotten substantially under 30 mins for a 5k then an average pace of 6 mins per kilometre on training runs means you are running flat out all the time. Do you get out for any runs where you just plod along at 7 or 8 minutes per Km from the start?

What Username Guidelines

skyblue46 wrote: »

Unless you have gotten substantially under 30 mins for a 5k then an average pace of 6 mins per kilometre on training runs means you are running flat out all the time. Do you get out for any runs where you just plod along at 7 or 8 minutes per Km from the start?

Nope, I was getting out and doing 3km or 5km as they’re both convenient loops from home. And I’ve always been aiming for 6 min or less. How silly have I been? any decent guides for this kind of thing? I just kind of followed the C25K guide and then just aimed for 3 runs a week. But that’s about the extent of my knowledge.

rainbow kirby

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Having said that, the same RD is also organising another race in June, and when asked for the cut-off time the answer was "Monday".

Sounds like my sort of timeframe :pac:

skyblue46

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Nope, I was getting out and doing 3km or 5km as they’re both convenient loops from home. And I’ve always been aiming for 6 min or less. How silly have I been? any decent guides for this kind of thing? I just kind of followed the C25K guide and then just aimed for 3 runs a week. But that’s about the extent of my knowledge.

It's not stupid at all. It's a very common thing with people new to running which is one of the reasons it was the first question El Caballo asked. As he said most of your running should be nice and slow. Try to build the distance you do over a few weeks on one of your runs...maybe add a km every 2 weeks. Keep the other runs at 5k for now but slow them right down. Nothing wrong with having a go at a faster 5k each week. Can you fit in 4 runs a week?

bucketybuck

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That race which you're referring to has always been a great starting point for the ultra and probably half the ultra runners in Ireland have ran it as their first one, so it's definitely first-timer friendly.

The race has its own character, as mentioned, but the "abuse" dished out is always strictly tongue-in-cheek, and nobody was ever actually pulled kicking-and-screaming off the course for being too slow.

Having said that, the same RD is also organising another race in June, and when asked for the cut-off time the answer was "Monday".

Thanks for the civil response. I only referenced the race to give some context to my original question, and I don't think its particularly snowflaky to know that some races are geared towards newcomers while others are more established in the community.

I'm not offended if a race makes a point of stating "no stupid questions, especially from first timers", but its not totally off the wall to assume that first timers perhaps aren't their target audience. Which is perfectly fine, like I said.

I'll check out the Maurice Mullins ultra I think, I already know those trails so it makes a bit of sense.

What Username Guidelines

skyblue46 wrote: »

It's not stupid at all. It's a very common thing with people new to running which is one of the reasons it was the first question El Caballo asked. As he said most of your running should be nice and slow. Try to build the distance you do over a few weeks on one of your runs...maybe add a km every 2 weeks. Keep the other runs at 5k for now but slow them right down. Nothing wrong with having a go at a faster 5k each week. Can you fit in 4 runs a week?

Absolutely, I lost a significant amount of weight from walking, but it was long-ish distance (12km, 3x per week) and hard to maintain in any sort of routine, so the draw of running was less time for same cals burned, I love how easy I’m finding the time for a run as opposed to 1.5hr walk. I feel stupid for not starting it earlier, but when I was far heavier I wrote running off as something Id never be able to do.

C25K drew me in and I’m shocked by how much I’m enjoying it, my wife thinks I’ve lost the plot actually looking forward to getting out for a run.

Is there any magic formula for pace or is it purely just listen to the body? I’ve heard from others you should be able to maintain conversation while running, and now that I think about it I probably wouldn’t on my last few runs. It seemed to make sense that I’d just keep pushing to improve pace but having you folks with experience tell me it’s ok to slow down is like music to my ears

skyblue46

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Absolutely, I lost a significant amount of weight from walking, but it was long-ish distance (12km, 3x per week) and hard to maintain in any sort of routine, so the draw of running was less time for same cals burned, I love how easy I’m finding the time for a run as opposed to 1.5hr walk. I feel stupid for not starting it earlier, but when I was far heavier I wrote running off as something Id never be able to do.

C25K drew me in and I’m shocked by how much I’m enjoying it, my wife thinks I’ve lost the plot actually looking forward to getting out for a run.

Is there any magic formula for pace or is it purely just listen to the body? I’ve heard from others you should be able to maintain conversation while running, and now that I think about it I probably wouldn’t on my last few runs. It seemed to make sense that I’d just keep pushing to improve pace but having you folks with experience tell me it’s ok to slow down is like music to my ears

I'm delighted you're enjoying it so much. I started on C25K a few years ago and struggled to complete most days. I got injured from running too fast, too often. There are pace calculators alright but no need to complicate things just yet! If your best time for 5k is a touch under 30 mins then aim to get 2 a week done in 40 mins each, have one which could be a Parkrun where you go fast and a 6/7k run another day at 8 min per km. Keep posting your progress here. You'll get plenty of good advice.

**Timbuk2**

C25K is brilliant - lots of us who now run regularly started there.

The 'being able to maintain a conversation' is good advice for keeping it easy. No need to get caught up in looking at min/km and heart rate. In any case, your body reacts differently on different days - one day 7min/km could be easy, another 6min/km.

I often run alone so change the 'being able to maintain a conversation' advice to 'can I maintain concentration to an audiobook / podcast'? If not, I'm probably going too fast!

What Username Guidelines

Wonderful, thank you all, this is great. Getting bloods done anyway on advice of nurses at platelet clinic but I’m very much looking forward to my slowest run yet on Friday.

ReeReeG

**Timbuk2** wrote:

I often run alone so change the 'being able to maintain a conversation' advice to 'can I maintain concentration to an audiobook / podcast'? If not, I'm probably going too fast!

Sometimes when I'm running alone and want to test my easy pace, I sing out loud to myself 😠might look crazy but a lot of people think runners are already so what is there to lose?!

skyblue46

ReeReeG wrote: »

Sometimes when I'm running alone and want to test my easy pace, I sing out loud to myself 😠might look crazy but a lot of people think runners are already so what is there to lose?!

Your dignity!

vargoo

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Is there any magic formula for pace or is it purely just listen to the body?

Speed up past fit birds/slow down/repeat

mcmoustache

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Good advice, thank you. I wouldnt say they were very hard, but there were times throughout the first few weeks where I naively pushed myself and ended up needing to repeat C25k days, but the later runs felt more comfortable when I felt the weakness, if that makes sense. I am having issues with pacing, starting closer to 5min/km but averaging 6min, etc, but I am getting a bit better at consistency.

I am generally active, cycling 130km a week too, but this is adding 3 runs per week and also adjusting diet in an attempt to shift a little weight. I'm guessing I've messed up with input/output and pace/frequency of runs.

I'm not an expert but are you eating right before running? I only run to supplement my GAA training but going out hungry makes a significant difference. I also found that running 10k once a week made a big difference to my 5k time.


One more thing that I would add is that maybe there's no need to overdo that first kilometer. When I started running I had a habit of overdoing it but it just left me spending more time in a recovery jog later. Now, I try to start the way that I could realistically finish.


I've only been running since October so take it with a pinch of salt and anyone else, feel free to correct me if I've offered bad advice.

Itziger

If I had one piece of coaching advice to give to new runners it would be:

Run 1 Slow/Easy
Run 2 Slow/Easy
Run 3 Neither of the above
Run 4 Slow/Easy
Run 5 Slow/Easy

If you were to get more complicated, I'd add. Run 1 and 5 longer than 2 and 4.

Repeat for 5 years

RayCun

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Wonderful, thank you all, this is great. Getting bloods done anyway on advice of nurses at platelet clinic but I’m very much looking forward to my slowest run yet on Friday.

I agree with all the advice on slowing down, as general training advice, but I don't think you are running enough for it to have an effect on your iron levels. Plus it usually takes a while for iron levels to deplete, so this could be something that started earlier. If you are trying to lose weight and have changed your diet you might not be getting enough iron in your diet any more.