Random Running Questions

witnessmenow

For races, do you have any special approach to your runners or just once they are in the window of their useful life thats good enough for you? Obviously nothing new for a race, but would you be trying to keep a relatively fresh pair or a well known entity?

On a semi related note, my confidence in asics and sizing has been shattered! I'm currently running in two cheap pairs (Gel excite 7 and 8) and they both fit me perfectly, I have other asics for daily wear and tennis, also fit me perfectly. All 9.5UK. I have a relatively wide foot and the asics I have seem to suit that. So I was very confident I'm a 9.5 in ascis.

The 7s are reaching their end of life (still ok, but just don't seem as cushioned as they were before. Also fairly worn on the outside of my heel, Don't know the Kms on them) and the 8s will be fairly well worn by my Race in July (also wearing on the outside of the heel, but not as bad), so I picked up Gel-Flux-6, which are a more expensive runner than the Gel-excites. But they didn't quite fit! They are narrower at the toe which felt weird and the thicker cushion at the heel seemed to push my foot further forward which left the runner feeling smaller. So back to asics they will go. Tempted to just more Gel-excites now :D

Dial Hard

In my quest to find a flat, sheltered running spot I ran the Grand Canal towpath from Park West to the 9th Lock and back today. Flat, yes. Sheltered, not so much. Was running directly into a *very* stiff breeze on the return leg.

The search continues!

corcaigh07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498474#Comment_120498474

It's rare that any shoe, even within the same brand will fit the same. It's a good idea too (especially when trying other brands) to also consider the length sizing and the EU size. Personally, I know I'm usually 10.5 or 11, length 29 or 29.5 and EU can be between 45 to 46. Also worth considering if it's an support shoe or neutral and the heel to toe drop if you're getting fussy!

Strava is a good way to track your mileage on your shoes but I think in the end, most people will make a judgement call as to wear and tear and if the foam is feeling a bit dead (maybe picking up a niggle or two as a result).

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502245#Comment_120502245

I think these were my 7th pair of asics in the last 2 years (not all for running!) so I thought I had it cracked! On paper they had the same ratings for Cushion and support, which was actually one of the reasons I went for them! I suppose its the risk you take when buying online without even seeing them. I could go a size up on them, which in theory would have my toes at a wider part of the sole, maybe that would sort it, but I think I'll just go back to the drawing board.

Yeah I started tracking my runners with Strava when I got the 8s. I've been splitting my runs between them since. So the 7s have done ~130KM since I started tracking a few months back. I've been using them since around this time last year and although I didn't run over the winter at all and I was only doing a couch to 5k last summer, I am a heavy guy so for a E40 pair of runners they probably have done more than expected!.

weadick

Anyone get lower back pain after running? Training for my first marathon at the moment and did a 17 mile run today. Just noticed afterwards a small bit of swelling and soreness on my lower back after the run. It has never happened before so am a bit concerned.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512227#Comment_120512227

Swelling sounds unusual. 17 miles is a long run so relatively normal to be a little sore after if you aren’t used to do that distance. Keep an eye on it but for this eve I’d say an epsom salts bath if possible. Make sure you are eating plenty protein too and rehydrating well.

nozzferrahhtoo

Not the worlds best runner myself. Started it about 5 years ago when I gave up alcohol over here in Germany. Back then I was running home from work only. Which was generally 8.7km averaging around 6:30 per KM. I got this to around 21km at 5:25/km in early 2023. At Easter back in Ireland I ran between Clontarf and Howth and back which was 21km at around 5:45/km and that was against quite a strong headwind on the sea front so a hard run.

Since then however I have noticed a sudden drop in form. I go out for a run and around 7km I suddenly have to stop and walk. And then for the next 5 or 10km I am alternating between running and walking.

I can not really identify where this sudden need to walk is coming from. My legs do not feel tired and I am not gasping for breath. I can not point a finger at any part of me and identify "This is where it is happening". I just get this overwhelming feeling I can not run more and have to walk for a bit. But I still feel good - no weird feelings of weakness or light headedness or any symptoms. Just a general need to stop running and start walking.

My Garmin reports my resting heart rate is 45 and my running rate goes up to around 170. My sleep and diet and stress are unchanged over the last months. I am not running more or less often so it does not feel like over training.... I think. So nothing weird is jumping out at me.

So it is a bizarre and rather sudden drop in form. Anyone else experience anything of the sort? I was thinking maybe I'd go to the doctor and get a blood work done and maybe one of those heart monitors they make you wear for 48 hours and so on just to check a few parts of the machine.

Sandwell

It's hard to be sure from your post but it sounds like you may be running at the same pace all the time, targeting a particular average pace. That would potentially lead to overtraining or burnout.

Generally, experienced runners will run the majority of their miles fairly slow (relative to their race pace) and maybe once or twice a week do something faster with a particular pace in mind. For example, I'd run a half-marathon at just under 6:00 per mile but would run most of my mileage at around 8:00 pace. If I tried to run at my race pace everyday it's wouldn't be long till I was fatigued and/or injured.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578981#Comment_120578981

I'm a way less experienced runner than yourself so take my advice with a pinch of salt!

I was also going to suggest doing a few more easy runs to build up your confidence again, which I know sounds kind of silly, but I'm kind of going through similar in a way.

I was sick with something last week and tried to run a couple of times and I definitely wasn't as able for it.

Now that I'm feeling better, I've noticed similar to you were for my cool down portion I might take part of it walking where I wouldn't previously. Similar to yourself, no great reason for it. I feel like I have just lost a little confidence or something that I know I'm able for it!

So maybe take a step back a small bit, do runs you know you can do and get yourself back into the rhythm of it. Maybe running with a group might also help, I've definitely been motivated to keep going when I run with others. It also lashed rain at the end of my run yesterday, which made walking much less appealing 😅

Not medical advice, but I don't think you'll find anyone who says getting a medical checkup from time to time is a bad idea.

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120580005#Comment_120580005

I tend to start at a faster pace and get slower. Been that way for 5 years. The speeds I quote above are the average speed that Garmin/Strava give for the entire run. But inside the details my runs tend to vary a lot. It varies even more now that I need to stop and keep walking.

I thought of over training but really nothing has changed in my technique in 5 years. And this "issue" I am having really started suddenly a month ago after returning from Ireland after Easter. So I just have the feeling something must have changed very recently and very suddenly. The run I did in Ireland felt good. But I can not put my finger on anything yet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120581766#Comment_120581766

The strange thing is that if I try to run at a slower pace than what feels "natural" it wears me out even faster and can actually be quite sore on my knees. Maybe something weird in my gait, I dunno. But forcing myself to run slower has never gone well for me. Maybe I need to find some professional runner to run with me and watch me do this and maybe identify something I am doing messed up.

So I suppose if I was to do "easy" runs it would be in terms of doing a lower distance rather than messing with the speed. Maybe a few 5k for awhile. I shall think on it.

I just realised my next blood donation comes with an added free medical work up of my blood (over here you get this after multiple donations) so that's good. Think I might go and get some heart checks too.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578981#Comment_120578981

When you say your running rate goes up to 170, whats the average HR of your runs, not their peaks?

nozzferrahhtoo

Most recent run stats from Tuesday:

17km - 6:16 / km

1:21 running registered on the watch with 0:23 minutes walking.

157bpm average rate with 176bpm maximum.

Today:

Watch registered my resting heart rate around 42. My highest today so far is 80 which is just walking around the house with no exertions. Sitting typing this post I am at 52.

Lazare

It's pretty simple, which is good news.

You're running too fast.

Reducing the distance but not the pace isn't 'easy' running.

What's even greater news though is, run slower and you'll get faster.

nozzferrahhtoo

Perhaps but it will need work because as I said if I try to force a pace or a gait it usually goes badly. I let my body set the pace and gait that feels natural to it. When I over think it and force myself to slow down it tends not to work well for me.

But the thing that hits me is I have not changed too many things in the last 5 years. So if your theory is correct, why has it suddenly gone weird in the last 4 weeks and not any time before that. It feels like this has come out of nowhere and if I am running essentially the same speed I always have, why would "running too fast" suddenly be an issue now if it was not before?

Not saying you are wrong or anything. Just saying it does not feel like it fits, yet. But I am exploring it. So the input is welcome.

AlmightyCushion

I have been a runner on and off for years. Only decided to start taking it more seriously this year. I used to most of my runs and running at a fast pace. The past month or so I have started following the whole 80/20 slow/fast thing as opposed to doing most of my runs at a similar pace. It is a bit unusual at first running so slow but you get used to it. I don't get how running slower makes you faster but every one and their dog says it so I won't doubt them. It is certainly a much nicer way to run though. I am enjoying running a lot more now than I was before.

Lazare

Running slow makes you fast for a number of reasons.

Main reason is because due to the low impact of easy running, it allows you to run often. You can run 7 days a week as long as 80% of it is low impact and easy. Running often is what makes you fast.

For runners like us, the biggest gains we can make in our fitness are aerobic gains. Easy slow running is aerobic running. Engine building. It's working on and optimising all sorts of systems that make us stronger runners.

We add in faster stuff to train ourselves how to run fast, but it's our aerobic engine that powers everything.

'Too fast' can feel comfortable, hence why so many people run too fast, but it leads to stagnation, fatigue, and injury.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583334#Comment_120583334

Yeah I actually understand all that. I get why the 80/20 split works. What I don't get is why the slow runs have to be so slow. For exaple, I did a 5k a while back at 4:32 pace. The pace calculator linked on another thread here says my very easy pace should be about 6:39 - 7:09. The 10k-HM training guide also linked on the other thread says to do 2 or 3 60 minute runs at this pace. I get why doing these runs slowly helps but surely doing them at a 6:00 or 6:15 pace instead would still improve your aerobic fitness and still let me doing the fast running sessions and a long run.

ariana`

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583702#Comment_120583702

Some calculators are more conservative than others and my guess is that in some part they are allowing for people who will inevitably go faster than prescribed.

My 5k pace is similar to yours (my most recent 5k was @ 4:28min/km) and I do my easy runs at around 6min/km (without trying, that is just the pace I generally fall into for easy runs). Do you use a Garmin - does it suggest workouts? My suggested workout on a regular basis is a 'Base' run where it suggests 45mins @ 5:55mins/km.

I'm not running enough at the moment to have time for very easy runs but looking back a few months when I was running more I was doing the odd one at about 6:30min/km.

I don't over think it - others might say I'd be better off if I did 😆

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583702#Comment_120583702

You'll notice those 'very easy' runs are either side of hard sessions. That plan is pretty intense, so the easy days must be very easy to allow you not be worn out for the session, and recover well from it on the other side.

You can never run too slow, you will get the same direct training benefit running those days at 6:40 pace as you would running them at 6:00. You'll just have a lot more preparedness and freshness keeping them on the slower side.

I've long been an advocate for slow running but even this blew my mind. Peter Somba won all of last year's Dublin race series events. He ran the half marathon at around 3:12 pace. I follow him on Strava. He does a ton of running at 6:30km pace.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584055#Comment_120584055

Are you talking about Brandon Peter Somba? I just skimmed his strava and in the past few months he has done 2 runs at 6:00 min a km pace or slower. Most of his runs are way, way quicker than that with most at a 3:xx or 4:xx pace.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584319#Comment_120584319

lol, you skimmed his Strava?

I've seen him do a ton of running at very slow paces.

By all means, don't listen to me, or the creator of those calculators, or those plans, or the book you're reading.

Maybe you're right.

Infoseeker1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584398#Comment_120584398

I ran for a couple of years on my own, did a similar route and distance and always full out. I had no knowledge of what you should do, just thought the more I ran and tried harder, the better I would get. The improvements were tiny.

In the last year, I joined a running club and have learnt that variety and slow running is the approach to take; one long run a week, some hills, some interval training and lots of slow runs.

P.S. I still find it hard to run slow for my level, I need to work on it and will do. I think it is easier to be disciplined in a group especially if there are experienced runners in it.

My 5km time would have been 22:30 give or take a few seconds and with the new approach I have broken 20 mins a few times; long term aim is to break 19 mins subject to fitness and nothing I can do about ageing!!

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584503#Comment_120584503

Fair play!

That's the benefit of joining a club, or in my case joining this forum. Learning from the wealth of experience.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584398#Comment_120584398

Yes I skimmed it because the guy does a shít tonne of running. You can easily scroll through his activity feed to see his paces, you don't need to do an indepth analysis of it to see his pacing. Tell me when he last did a run of 6:30 a km seeing as he does a ton or running at that pace? His last run slower than 6:00 a km was 2 months ago at 6:01 pace then back in February at 6:08. I stopped looking not long after that. So, 2 runs over 6:00 in 3 months, none at 6:30 pace. How is that a ton of running at 6:30 pace. Most of his runs are at 3:xx and 4:xx pace.

Also, I have already said I do most of my runs slow. I just don't go as slow as the calculators. I keep to about about a 6:00 to 6:30 pace instead of 6:40 to 7:09 pace like they recommend. I used to do all my runs at a similar fast pace until I learned about the whole 80/20 thing then I switched to that because I realised the way I was running was wrong and this was the right way. So, at least I can admit when I am wrong unlike yourself.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584503#Comment_120584503

I was the same as you even down to the same route. Seemed to make ok improvements but I would pretty much stop running when the weather got rubbish so would usually only run between March and September typically. So, never really made any serious improvements as I would generally lose the fitness I gained. Only started doing this new approach the past month so hopefully I make as much progress as you and this time next year I'm sub 20 for a 5k. What was your 5k time before you changed it up if you don't mind me asking?

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584933#Comment_120584933

Tell me when he last did a run of 6:30 a km

No.

Trawling Strava in order to win an argument on the Internet is not something I feel worth my time.

Good luck.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585228#Comment_120585228

Yet you laugh and are derisive towards at me for only skimming his profile. If he runs a ton at that pace then surely it wouldn't take long.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585286#Comment_120585286

Dude, I've no interest in this.

Run as fast as you like. Good luck.

TheRef

I didn't understand the benefits of running slow when I started a couple of years back but this post explained it perfectly.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99741843#post99741843

I also read Matt Fitzgeralds 80/20 which went it in great detail.

Sono

First time posting in this thread, a great read and some great advice.

interesting to see what people say about running slower and going longer distances, I’m running 4 times a week and have been for about 8 months now, find myself pushing too hard and burning out so after reading this thread I’m going to take it easier and try go longer, thanks again for all the tips!