Random Running Questions

Enduro

My recommendation would be to only eat Carbs after running. Definitely don't carb load. The easiest and best thing to eat before a morning run is nothing. You'll be training yourself to burn fat far more efficiently by doing that.

average_runner

Agree with the lads above, i would never eat before a morning run. Usually because i am out of the house by 7 for the run.


If i was doing a parkrun at 930, i be up with the kids at 7, so would have a coffee and a half of slice of toast with peanut butter, ie take it from the kids when they are not watching:eek:

Yep I won't be carb loading as such, I made the mistake when I started running of eating lots of carbs that I don't need, so I've cut right back on those.

If I'm running to work I'd probably have something beforehand because that's later in the morning, but other than that it'll be 6am when I'm out the door so eating isn't really an option.

So say yesterday. I was up at 6am, I had a banana and was in the gym by 6:30. I came home and just had a cuppa, a shower, and at 9am I had a small amount of greek yogurt, raspberries, and a small scoop of bird seed. Then for lunch at 12:30 I had a beef burrito without the wrap and an apple. I had a nakd bar around 3 and an omelette at 7pm. Should I have had carbs with the eggs last night if I was to run at 6am? Or did I get enough carbs during the day with fruit etc.

Sorry, I know I'm probably asking stupid questions. I just want to make sure I'm eating the right stuff to get me through this bloody marathon :P

RayCun

Deleted User wrote: »

So say yesterday. I was up at 6am, I had a banana and was in the gym by 6:30. I came home and just had a cuppa, a shower, and at 9am I had a small amount of greek yogurt, raspberries, and a small scoop of bird seed. Then for lunch at 12:30 I had a beef burrito without the wrap and an apple. I had a nakd bar around 3 and an omelette at 7pm. Should I have had carbs with the eggs last night if I was to run at 6am? Or did I get enough carbs during the day with fruit etc.

:eek:
I would be starving! Nothing after the gym?
and I'm not so keen on these 'avoid all carbs' diets

No I would agree, I don't avoid all of anything except junk (well, I try :P), I had porridge for breakfast this morning like!

Enduro

Timing of the carbs has a significant effect on how they are used. It's generally preferrable to have your most significant daily intake of carbs either during or after exercise. Otherwise you're more likely to be spiking your insulin.

Overall your diet looks very good. Lots of natural foods. If you wanted to time your carbs better then maybe after the gym in the morning? Don't have the bananna before the gym (maybe switch the cuppa (sugar free!!) to there instead), have it whilst your exercising or afterwards. Another easy improvemnt would be to have nuts for your snack in the afternoon instead of the nakd bar. Have the real food rather than the processed equivalent.

RuMan

My morning runs are usually very early so it's straight out of bed and out with nothing. Just wondering what people following this approach do in marathons ? I've been doing 20 mile runs with nothing and find it easier. For shorter races i'd usually have porridge/toast 3 hours before and this seems to have worked well. I suppose i'm asking about fueling during a race, i'd take nothing up to half marathon distance , if it was very hot might take some water. Not a huge fan of gels, thinking of just taking water for the marathon also. Anyone else do this ?

Enduro

Enduro wrote: »

Timing of the carbs has a significant effect on how they are used. It's generally preferrable to have your most significant daily intake of carbs either during or after exercise. Otherwise you're more likely to be spiking your insulin.

Overall your diet looks very good. Lots of natural foods. If you wanted to time your carbs better then maybe after the gym in the morning? Don't have the bananna before the gym (maybe switch the cuppa (sugar free!!) to there instead), have it whilst your exercising or afterwards. Another easy improvemnt would be to have nuts for your snack in the afternoon instead of the nakd bar. Have the real food rather than the processed equivalent.

The nakd bar was instead of chocolate I just got a recipe for homemade nakd bars which I will most certainly be trying out. I have had a batch of these on the go for the past few weeks, but I'm all out at the minute. I should probably make some more tonight though.

average_runner

Something i do after my sat runs is the following:

35-45g of porridge, add yogurt(any flavour) and mix. Add protein powder if u like. I usually do this the night before i head out on the run.

When i get home i add an egg to it and it makes about 5-7 small pancakes.

Put fruit of your choice on the pancake and agave sugar, its nice!!

TFBubendorfer

RuMan wrote: »

My morning runs are usually very early so it's straight out of bed and out with nothing. Just wondering what people following this approach do in marathons ? I've been doing 20 mile runs with nothing and find it easier

I never eat before training but I do make sure I have a decent breakfast before a marathon, preferably a big bowl of porridge. I know via trial and error that I can eat up to 2 hours before race start, but no later.

I tried running a 50k on empty once and after about 30k it didn't seem like such a great idea any more (Enduro would of course argue that all I have to do is work on my fat burning)

Enduro

RuMan wrote: »

My morning runs are usually very early so it's straight out of bed and out with nothing. Just wondering what people following this approach do in marathons ? I've been doing 20 mile runs with nothing and find it easier. For shorter races i'd usually have porridge/toast 3 hours before and this seems to have worked well. I suppose i'm asking about fueling during a race, i'd take nothing up to half marathon distance , if it was very hot might take some water. Not a huge fan of gels, thinking of just taking water for the marathon also. Anyone else do this ?

Take the same approach in your races as you do in training! Taking just water for a marathon should be fine if you've been doing your long training runs on empty with no issues for a while (And I've gone a lot longer than marathon distances in races without eating, for the record)

Enduro

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I never eat before training but I do make sure I have a decent breakfast before a marathon, preferably a big bowl of porridge. I know via trial and error that I can eat up to 2 hours before race start, but no later.

I tried running a 50k on empty once and after about 30k it didn't seem like such a great idea any more (Enduro would of course argue that all I have to do is work on my fat burning)

Well predicted

But of course we're all different, and if you've worked out a system that you know works well for your needs then that's all good!

Netwerk Errer

RayCun wrote: »

my morning runs are usually on the way into work, so I eat first
Otherwise, whatever suits you - have your normal breakfast before you run. Or, if you don't like to eat before running, have your breakfast when you get back.
I kind of assume anyone posting on this forum is generally well-fed, so we're perfectly capable of going for a run in the morning without having to load up the night before

Ah Ray, calling one evening meal that is high in carbs carbo-loading is a bit extreme. I just consider it as a normal meal. Carbo-loading to me is days of upping your carb intake in the run up to a race.

@Enduro- Do you think it's necessary for the OP to be a good fat burner when judging by their mileage, they are racing from half marathon down? All their race specific work would be lactate based so I would look at training fat-glycogen ratio as unnecessary and wasting energy on a system you're not going to use.

Enduro

Deleted User wrote: »

The nakd bar was instead of chocolate I just got a recipe for homemade nakd bars which I will most certainly be trying out. I have had a batch of these on the go for the past few weeks, but I'm all out at the minute. I should probably make some more tonight though.

Definitely heading in the right direction so! Homemade beats factory made every time. Those energy balls look great for race nutrition. Be careful though as dried fruit is very sugar dense. You wouldn't want to have too many of them too often outside of racing. There are some other good recipies around for similar energy balls, but more nut/oat rather than fruit based that are worth trying. I make some that have almond flour as the main ingrediant, with coconut oil as the main binding agent.

Assuming I'm the OP

I'm training for a full marathon, the early morning runs will be the shorter ones, although perhaps I should be doing all my runs in the mornings seeing as the race itself will be early!

average_runner

Enduro wrote: »

Definitely heading in the right direction so! Homemade beats factory made every time. Those energy balls look great for race nutrition. Be careful though as dried fruit is very sugar dense. You wouldn't want to have too many of them too often outside of racing. There are some other good recipies around for similar energy balls, but more nut/oat rather than fruit based that are worth trying. I make some that have almond flour as the main ingrediant, with coconut oil as the main binding agent.

Can you post up some recipes?

Enduro

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

@Enduro- Do you think it's necessary for the OP to be a good fat burner when judging by their mileage, they are racing from half marathon down? All their race specific work would be lactate based so I would look at training fat-glycogen ratio as unnecessary and wasting energy on a system you're not going to use.

Personally I think that once you move beyond sprinting that it starts to become useful. Obviously the longer your races are the more useful it will be. But one of the primary reasons I'd advocate it would be for general health reasons beyond sports specific factors (But those general health benifts would obviously be benificial to sporting performance as well of course). Given that start point, the question for me then becomes why would you want to be a sugar burner (with all the potential health risk from overconsuming sugars over a prolonged period) when it is healthier to be a fat-burner (again, in general, not just sports performance related).

Also, given that we have 2 hours of glycogen burning capacities there should be no need to worry about carb-loading etc. for the vast majority of runners, even if they're pure glycogen burners when racing!

RayCun

Enduro wrote: »

Take the same approach in your races as you do in training!

One difference is, if you're racing, there's going to be plenty of time between getting up and the race. But if you're running first thing in the morning before going to work, you don't want to be hanging around. So, if you don't like to run straight after eating, you might do some training runs on empty but always eat before races.

RayCun

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Ah Ray, calling one evening meal that is high in carbs carbo-loading is a bit extreme. I just consider it as a normal meal. Carbo-loading to me is days of upping your carb intake in the run up to a race.

I wouldn't call it carbo-loading either! But I don't see the need to have a normal meal a couple of hours later in the day because you're running the next morning before breakfast

Enduro

average_runner wrote: »

Can you post up some recipes?

I can't post the recipe I use as I got it from a friend and it's his trade secret

But I just did a quick google for "Almond flour energy balls" and checked this one. That's pretty close to what I make. Nice and simple. You could also throw in some whey protein (or even powdered milk), some nut butter etc. But a great simple start point and you can experiment away from there. The only cooking required is to heat the coconut oil. I start with a bag of Almond flour rather than blending the things from scratch to make things much easier. No need for any fancy cooking tools then. I just spoon it all out and mix it with a sppon in a bowl. Ingredients can be sourced easily and cheaply... almond flour in the baking section of most supermakerts. Coconut oil is reasonably cheap in dunnes. Bournvill Cocoa is 100% cocao and suger free (available in most supermarkets). Honey... easy. Nut butters from health food shops (but a bit pricey.. could use peanut butter as a not so good but cheaper and easier to get alternative).

TFBubendorfer

Enduro wrote: »

I can't post the recipe I use as I got it from a friend and it's his trade secret =

I need to get my hands on that baz balls recipe :rolleyes:

Enduro

RayCun wrote: »

One difference is, if you're racing, there's going to be plenty of time between getting up and the race. But if you're running first thing in the morning before going to work, you don't want to be hanging around. So, if you don't like to run straight after eating, you might do some training runs on empty but always eat before races.

Personally I prefer not to eat before racing, and I regard it as an advantage not to need to eat before a race. It's one significant thing that can go wrong taken out of the equation. I've never had a race go wrong because I didn't eat beforehand. I have had races go wrong because I did :eek: (My marathon PB is at least 2 minutes slower than it should be because of this!!) Its one less thing to potentially be mentally stressing about as well.

The question I would ask is does anyone need to eat before a race. If you're racing for less than 2 hours and burning glycogen then you should need to worry about it as you should have enough fuel to last race. If you're racing for more than that then it would be much more benificial to be fat-burning, and you've trained up your fat burning engine then you're going to have enough fuel to last the race.

So much more downsides than upsides to eating before a race from my perspective.

RayCun

If you never eat, you will never eat anything that disagrees with you :pac:

In the summer there are often races in the evening. Raheny starts in the middle of the afternoon. A lot of races start at 10 or 11 in the morning. Marathons usually start at 9am.

So I get out of bed anything from 2 to 13 hours before a race. I don't think I've ever had trouble in a race because of what I did or didn't eat that day. Fasting before a race would be a bigger deal to me than having a regular breakfast.

walshb

On the subject of eating, what would the elites between 1500 and 10 k typically eat/drink before a race? What time before the race would they eat?

davedanon

walshb wrote: »

On the subject of eating, what would the elites between 1500 and 10 k typically eat/drink before a race? What time before the race would they eat?

Big Mac meal half an hour before. Only Regular though, no Supersize.

walshb

davedanon wrote: »

Only Regular though, no Supersize.

Useless. They'd need to refuel half way through!

Dubgal72

Can anyone recommend an online basic/introductory Pilates course that will do until I figure out how to manufacture a non-running 'get out of the house card'?

RuMan

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I never eat before training but I do make sure I have a decent breakfast before a marathon, preferably a big bowl of porridge. I know via trial and error that I can eat up to 2 hours before race start, but no later.

I tried running a 50k on empty once and after about 30k it didn't seem like such a great idea any more (Enduro would of course argue that all I have to do is work on my fat burning)

Your pre race approach seems to have worked for me up to half so intend to follow pre marathon.
What do you take during marathons/ ultras ? I'm leaning toward going with what Enduro has suggested and just racing with water. I'm not really keen on gels and have probably become fairly fat adapted (by accident !) at this stage. Marathon is not until April.

vanderlyle

Enduro wrote: »

The question I would ask is does anyone need to eat before a race. If you're racing for less than 2 hours and burning glycogen then you should need to worry about it as you should have enough fuel to last race. If you're racing for more than that then it would be much more benificial to be fat-burning, and you've trained up your fat burning engine then you're going to have enough fuel to last the race.

Thanks Enduro for the really useful insights. What are the best ways to train your fat burning engine? Apart from long slow runs?

And how can I tell just how good a fat-burner I am? Short of running the next nearest marathon and seeing at what point do I hit a wall?

TFBubendorfer

RuMan wrote: »

What do you take during marathons/ ultras ? I'm leaning toward going with what Enduro has suggested and just racing with water. I'm not really keen on gels and have probably become fairly fat adapted (by accident !) at this stage. Marathon is not until April.

For marathons and shorter ultras like Connemara I usually take 2-3 gels and if I manage to get my hands on some sports drink I use that. My stomach has a very limited ability to take gels but sports drink never fails to give me a lift.

For slightly longer ultras (50 miles/100k) I rely on a carbs + protein drink called Perpetuem. The taste could be improved but it seems to work for me.

For really long races (100 miles/24hours) I prefer real food. Boiled potatoes are my particular favourite and in last year's race in Belfast half the field were eating spuds after my race report from an earlier race had gotten popular I should have patented that


I like to think I'm pretty well fat adapted but nowhere near as much as Enduro. But running completely on empty for more than 20 miles isn't on for me in a race (I've tried) and I do get a boost from a quick carbs shot when I'm feeling depleted. I never take gels or sports drink in training, though.