Random Running Questions

It wasnt me123

Clearlier wrote: »

I still quite like getting tech t-shirts as I'm likely to use them. Occasionally I'll make use of a cotton one but most of the time they go directly into the charity bin. It doesn't help when you end up with one two sizes too small though especially when you know that once upon a time that was your size!:eek:

You should run slower then, all the t-shirts at the end of any race I've ran, including the VLM are L/XL - does my head in. Just cos we're slow, doesn't mean we're big!

Personally, I would prefer no goodie bag, or just a medal, and a cheaper race. I've had to fill these goodie bags before a HM for our Club, and it took hours and its a waste of trees!

Oh, and I got mens deodorant in my VLM goodie bag, any of ye are welcome to it.

menoscemo

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

You should run slower then, all the t-shirts at the end of any race I've ran, including the VLM are L/XL - does my head in. Just cos we're slow, doesn't mean we're big!

You know what the problem here is actually? It's not that the organisers don't buy enough of all sizes- they do (no doubt based info obtained before the race) but it's the participants demanding small sizes inappropriately.

I have had the job of giving out small T-shirts at the race series 10 mile and we are actually told not to give out small to the lead lads (they probably need XS to be fair) and to ration the small as much as possible. Now I have no problem telling one of the faster lads they need a medium (blatant lie) and sending them on with humour but when the masses start coming in it becomes harder and harder to stop them grabbing small. It's obviously extremely hard to tell rather large men and ladies that they are not in fact a small and should proceed to the medium/large line but you can't really cause a scene. Unfortunately that means by the time 3/4 of the field has come in all the small sizes are gone.

My suggestion is to put the large sizes first and the small sizes at the back to perhaps stop participants grabbing he first sizes they come across.

It wasnt me123

Its a tough one alright, you can't be offending people, telling them the heffers get the XL!

I wonder how hard it is to pick a size when registering, so the organisers know how many of each they need, plus extras for the stewards/volunteers cos they seem to have the correct size.

Really, I would prefer a cheaper race and no t-shirt (I have draws full of them) but sorry, I do like the bling!

menoscemo

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I wonder how hard it is to pick a size when registering, so the organisers know how many of each they need, plus extras for the stewards/volunteers cos they seem to have the correct size.

This is all done already. Organisers have no volition to give out inappropriate sizes to participants. If any thing the larger sizes cost them more surely?

It seems people who registered for a medium or large still demand a small on the day. Whether that's by genuine mistake or delusion I don't know, but you can't expect the volunteers to be the arbiters of which size each person is. They get enough abuse already!!

MarkY91

the terenure 5 mile when signing up asks you your tshirt size. theyre collected the day before the event. i wasnt aware that other events gave them out AFTER the event

rainbow kirby

And then you get some races where the sizes are horribly misleading - my Great North Run 2014 and Reading Half-Marathon 2015 t-shirts are both a size small but look like a tent on me. I'm not particularly small either.

@Meno - when I was volunteering at the race series 5 mile a few years back I was on T-shirt duty and we ran out of all the big sizes! We had some very large ladies come through at about the 1 hr 20 mark and only S and XS shirts for them...

menoscemo

rainbow kirby wrote: »

And then you get some races where the sizes are horribly misleading - my Great North Run 2014 and Reading Half-Marathon 2015 t-shirts are both a size small but look like a tent on me. I'm not particularly small either.

@Meno - when I was volunteering at the race series 5 mile a few years back I was on T-shirt duty and we ran out of all the big sizes! We had some very large ladies come through at about the 1 hr 20 mark and only S and XS shirts for them...

Where the larger sizes the first ones you encountered after finishing that day?

davedanon

It beats me why someone who's a Large would want a Small size. Unless they've no plans to actually wear the garment. I'm a Medium, but I've gone back to getting Large size Tees, as they're more comfortable to run in.

Tom Joad

Am toying with the idea of getting racing runners for 5ks/10ks but usually need a lot of support in my normal clunky runners as I overpronate quite a bit. Is there such a thing as racers for overpronators or are they all the same?

conavitzky

Tom Joad wrote: »

Am toying with the idea of getting racing runners for 5ks/10ks but usually need a lot of support in my normal clunky runners as I overpronate quite a bit. Is there such a thing as racers for overpronators or are they all the same?

Asics ds racers would offer some support in a racing shoe form.

RedRunner

conavitzky wrote: »

Asics ds racers would offer some support in a racing shoe form.

Got there before me! I wear Brooks adrenalines as I overpronate and got fitted for DS Racers. They seemed to be the best option. Haven't got them yet. Settled for ST5s in the meantime for the longer shorter stuff (if that makes sense ie 5k to maybe 10 mile/HM)

rainbow kirby

menoscemo wrote: »

Where the larger sizes the first ones you encountered after finishing that day?

Nope, it was XS first!

Dubgal72

Tom Joad wrote: »

Am toying with the idea of getting racing runners for 5ks/10ks but usually need a lot of support in my normal clunky runners as I overpronate quite a bit. Is there such a thing as racers for overpronators or are they all the same?

I'm using Saucony A6 at the moment, love them. I overpronate but the Saucony's are so low it seems to reduce my roll. I think there is a little bit of support in the shape of them. No probs with them at all anyway.

adrian522

Saucony Fastwitch have a little bit of support, may be worth a go. Brooks T7 are supposed to be good too. Definitely go to a shop where you can try a few pairs on before deciding.

tHE vAGGABOND

It beats me why someone who's a Large would want a Small size.

Folks who run a few races may have MILLIONS of technical tee-shirts, and may get one for kids or other half or something?

On runners, random comment, was getting present for someone in TK Maxx the other day [Im ALLL class], and their runner section [in Dublin, Stephens Green] had a decent few pairs of running runners at good prices. I wear Brooks Adrenaline GTS 14's for example, and they had several pairs at 55 quid odd, which was good. A few other brands I knew hanging around there too. Did not know they had decent runners in there, worth checking out in future.

davedanon

adrian522 wrote: »

Saucony Fastwitch have a little bit of support, may be worth a go. Brooks T7 are supposed to be good too. Definitely go to a shop where you can try a few pairs on before deciding.

Gary Crossan in AK Ballymount was really helpful when I was wanting to switch shoe type. Made me try on half the shop and run around the carpark in all of them before deciding what I liked.

davedanon

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Folks who run a few races may have MILLIONS of technical tee-shirts, and may get one for kids or other half or something?

On runners, random comment, was getting present for someone in TK Maxx the other day [Im ALLL class], and their runner section [in Dublin, Stephens Green] had a decent few pairs of running runners at good prices. I wear Brooks Adrenaline GTS 14's for example, and they had several pairs at 55 quid odd, which was good. A few other brands I knew hanging around there too. Did not know they had decent runners in there, worth checking out in future.

I've noticed people on here namechecking TK Carrickmines for shoes. Was out there myself last week, and it seemed to be mostly Brooks on offer.

demfad

pconn062 wrote: »

Seriously, you need to put an asterix beside your comments on nutrition. You are the extreme end of the spectrum and the events you do are on the extreme end of the spectrum also, so the don't apply to 99% of runners.
As often happens in these situations it is best to look at what what works for you, if you need water or carbohydrates then take them, don't try to avoid them just because someone online might snigger at you taking a gel. Look at elite marathon runners, they all take carbohydrates on board during marathons and would obviously practice taking them in training.

I'd actually disagree with that strongly.

Enduro is at the "fat burning" extreme of the spectrum and therefore his experience/advice on how to best use this energy system should be relevant to any long distance runner here who needs to utilise the fat burning (lipid) energy system. And lets face it, he's not some sniggering online commentator; hes "run the run" many times in this regard and he is clearly expert in this area from experience. Someone asked how far people have run without gels etc. and ofcourse Enduro's reply is going to be relevant and should be of interest.

Lets look at fat burning and marathon performance:

Even at world record pace the ratio of fat to carbs is 50:50.
The vast amount of energy will be taken in from energy sources stored in the body: limited muscle glycogen and unlimited fat. A relatively small amount will be taken on in energy drinks during the race.

Elites must therefore primarily train their body to get used to burning glycogen, burning fat, and burning that 50:50 glycogen to fat ratio at race pace. Initially, they have to develop the ability to burn fat at a slower steady paces with long easy and then steady runs. When ready, they might do a session designed to deplete glycogen supplies and force fat burning at race pace:

e.g A long hard run to deplete glycogen, followed by a series of punishing long intervals which can only use fat. The long intervals will teach his body to use the strongest fat burning muscle fibres available. Does anyone think an elite would be taking on carbs during this session?

Sure they will take carbs on in of couple of specific runs to squeeze the small advantage of being able to process a small amount of sugar at MP. But this will be the icing on the cake. It clearly wont be done at the expense of optimising the critical glycogen and fat burning capablities.

That's someone who uses only 50% Fat at marathon pace. Every user here uses a far greater proportion of fat.

If marathon runners use gels for all their long runs then they simply wont develop their ability to burn fat in the most beneficial way for their marathon. They will run slower at race pace and when they do hit the wall their pace profile will look like they fell off a cliff.

And you see it all the time. Folks jogging home after "hitting the wall".
What happened? More often than not that is their actual marathon race pace when burning fat only. Running more long runs with no fuel will help towards this. If you burn 70% Fat at race pace then concentrate on developing that. That means Listening to posters like Enduro, who know all about how to improve fat burning capabilities.

There is a huge advantage in not being dependent on external energy sources during a long race as Enduro said. That should guide marathon training. It should guide day to day nutrition also as I believe a sugary diet inhibits the use of the fat burning system. That means diet has a huge bearing on marathon performance. Id be interested to hear Enduro's thoughts on that.

menoscemo

demfad wrote: »

Even at world record pace the ratio of fat to carbs is 50:50.

I assume you mean world record Marathon pace? Can you show me where you got this?

pconn062

Demfad,

I never said people shouldn't incorporate some fat burning stimulus into their training. But, telling people you can run for 5 days without food or 6.5 hours without water doesn't teach anyone anything. You need to explain how this applies to the ordinary athlete. And I believe Enduro is of the opinion that you need ZERO sugar to run a marathon. However in your point, you conceded that elite marathon runners do utilise carbs and sugar in both races and training, that's all I was keen to point out.

Plus I imagine the energy systems you use for a 24 hour/5 day race are different from the requirements needed for a fast marathon.

ultraman1

demfad wrote: »

Id be interested to hear Enduro's thoughts on that.

you will have to wait till next week,the E.m.u. 6 day race has just started in hungary,

ultrapercy

ultraman1 wrote: »

you will have to wait till next week,the E.m.u. 6 day race has just started in hungary,

Ha ha ha, Hungary that's ironic. Well it is using the Alanis Morrisett definition anyway.

_Tombstone_

Is their a certain mileage 1 could run to allow them to eat whatever they wanted and to still lose weight?

davedanon

ultrapercy wrote: »

Ha ha ha, Hungary that's ironic. Well it is using the Alanis Morrisett definition anyway.

Haven't you got that the wrong way around? There is actual irony in that statement, whereas Morrisette irony is by definition irony-free.

BrokenMan

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Is their a certain mileage 1 could run to allow them to eat whatever they wanted and to still lose weight?

Simple answer is no, you can't outrun a bad diet.

ultrapercy

davedanon wrote: »

Haven't you got that the wrong way around? There is actual irony in that statement, whereas Morrisette irony is by definition irony-free.

I dunno I just said it cos I thought it sounded funny.

davedanon

ultrapercy wrote: »

I dunno I just said it cos I thought it sounded funny.

Average athlete, world-class pedant, me.

demfad

menoscemo wrote: »

I assume you mean world record Marathon pace? Can you show me where you got this?

I cant remember exactly where I got that but Ill try and get back to you. As far as I'm aware, max lipid (fats) power = aerobic threshold and is the turnover point (50:50) between fat and carbs. If the proportion is wrong please correct.

pconn062 wrote: »

Demfad,

I never said people shouldn't incorporate some fat burning stimulus into their training. But, telling people you can run for 5 days without food or 6.5 hours without water doesn't teach anyone anything. You need to explain how this applies to the ordinary athlete. And I believe Enduro is of the opinion that you need ZERO sugar to run a marathon. However in your point, you conceded that elite marathon runners do utilise carbs and sugar in both races and training, that's all I was keen to point out.

Plus I imagine the energy systems you use for a 24 hour/5 day race are different from the requirements needed for a fast marathon.

In fairness, I dont think Enduro told anybody anything. I believe he replied to the question from another poster about how long people had ran without sustenance. He also pointed out that the ability to optimally use your own source of bodily energy is paramount in long races. It is.

The ability to take on sugar is not paramount and in fact if it is used extensivley during long training runs in my opinion, it will hinder marathon performance for the reasons Ive stated.

menoscemo

demfad wrote: »

I cant remember exactly where I got that but Ill try and get back to you. As far as I'm aware, max lipid (fats) power = aerobic threshold and is the turnover point (50:50) between fat and carbs. If the proportion is wrong please correct.

That'd be great.
I had always though it was closer to 80/20 Glycogen to fat.

TFBubendorfer

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Is their a certain mileage 1 could run to allow them to eat whatever they wanted and to still lose weight?

If they burn more calories from running than they are eating, then yes.

Running 120 miles a week were still not enough to eat what I wanted and still lose weight, so I'd say the required mileage would be rather high!