Random Running Questions

Toulouse

Can anyone recommend a Physio in the Celbridge/Lucan/Chapelizod regions please?

Ososlo

Toulouse wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a Physio in the Celbridge/Lucan/Chapelizod regions please?

http://www.performanceclinic.ie/about/

Don't think you can go wrong with Mark Kenneally in Celbridge. A few people around here seem to go to him and say good things.

Toulouse

Ah yeah, have had a few recommendations for him, guess that's where I'll go so!

Thanks.

Enduro

MarkY91 wrote: »

I got them today and they feel very comfy so i guess theyre suited to my foot.

That's good so far then! best of luck with them.

Firedance

It was suggested to me that I 'could' have exercise induced asthma and that it might be worth at least checking out, they do a lung function test in UCD along with Blood lactate profiling and VO2max assessment. Is a blood lacate/Vo2max assessment useful to runners at any level or is it a waste of €€ for slower runners? I could get the lung function test on its own.

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

It was suggested to me that I 'could' have exercise induced asthma and that it might be worth at least checking out, they do a lung function test in UCD along with Blood lactate profiling and VO2max assessment. Is a blood lacate/Vo2max assessment useful to runners at any level or is it a waste of €€ for slower runners? I could get the lung function test on its own.

A person better versed in the science/coaching might have a better option but IMO the Vo2max is a waste of time. The lactate threshold is interesting partly to see how steeply the line rises but also because I think that it's a pretty good marker of changes in fitness if you do more than one of these tests. By far the most interesting part of those tests for me is getting an accurate HR max. That's a reflection in my interest of using HRM's to give training guidance. Sometimes people are suprised at how much harder they can push themselves, other times how much easier they should be taking their easy runs!

I don't know how the presence of asthma would impact on the test though.

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

A person better versed in the science/coaching might have a better option but IMO the Vo2max is a waste of time. The lactate threshold is interesting partly to see how steeply the line rises but also because I think that it's a pretty good marker of changes in fitness if you do more than one of these tests. By far the most interesting part of those tests for me is getting an accurate HR max. That's a reflection in my interest of using HRM's to give training guidance. Sometimes people are suprised at how much harder they can push themselves, other times how much easier they should be taking their easy runs!

I don't know how the presence of asthma would impact on the test though.

this is what the website says
We can then visually determine your lactate threshold (steady pace) and lactate turnpoint (race pace) occurrences and their corresponding intensities and heart rates. This is important to know to define the different training zones (e.g., steady, heavy, etc.) and better structure your training plan. So, we perform two tests, firstly to show the level at which you can maintain exercise for long periods (lactate profiling), and secondly to measure your maximal aerobic capacity (VO2max, a good indicator of your fitness level). Heart rate is continuously measured during both tests.
so it might be worth doing the test to determine that information alone? they will do the lung function before and after the aerobic endurance test.

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

this is what the website says
We can then visually determine your lactate threshold (steady pace) and lactate turnpoint (race pace) occurrences and their corresponding intensities and heart rates. This is important to know to define the different training zones (e.g., steady, heavy, etc.) and better structure your training plan. So, we perform two tests, firstly to show the level at which you can maintain exercise for long periods (lactate profiling), and secondly to measure your maximal aerobic capacity (VO2max, a good indicator of your fitness level). Heart rate is continuously measured during both tests.
so it might be worth doing the test to determine that information alone? they will do the lung function before and after the aerobic endurance test.

The information could be useful if it helps you determine training effort levels, the paces are what you hope to change over time so it's of use only for a short while after the test.

A friend who I was advising did the test and it was interesting because it showed that his heart rate max is quite low. It didn't really change his training though so I'm hesitant to recommend one unless you have a doubt about how well you're determining your training intensities.

menoscemo

Clearlier wrote: »

By far the most interesting part of those tests for me is getting an accurate HR max.

Can a test like this get your HR Max though?
I know a guy did this test and got nowhere near his previously recorded max HR. I know if I was doing this test I would have the irrational fear of pushing myself to the max for fear of falling off the treadmill :P

Firedance

menoscemo wrote: »

Can a test like this get your HR Max though?
I know a guy did this test and got nowhere near his previously recorded max HR. I know if I was doing this test I would have the irrational fear of pushing myself to the max for fear of falling off the treadmill :P

good point :eek: ok so it looks like there's no real benefit to that part of the test, I might just go with the lung function on its own then.

Clearlier

menoscemo wrote: »

Can a test like this get your HR Max though?
I know a guy did this test and got nowhere near his previously recorded max HR. I know if I was doing this test I would have the irrational fear of pushing myself to the max for fear of falling off the treadmill :P

I believe that it can (assuming no fear of treadmills etc.:)) get an effective HR Max for running (cycling would need to be done on a bike rather than a treadmill and would have a lower max rate apparently). The test I referred to in my earlier post confirmed a suspicion although it did bring his heart rate a couple of beats higher than had been recorded in the real world.

I obviously know nothing about the guy you know but I'd be wondering how consistently he saw a higher number in the real world and whether there might have been 'contact' issues. I've seen some suggestions too that the adrenaline of a race can add a few beats to your heart rate. I see it happen in races but I'm not overly confident yet as to whether it raises your overall heart rate or just that it's a reflection of an ability to run closer to your limits in a race than in training.

Bez Bing

Firedance wrote: »

It was suggested to me that I 'could' have exercise induced asthma and that it might be worth at least checking out, they do a lung function test in UCD along with Blood lactate profiling and VO2max assessment. Is a blood lacate/Vo2max assessment useful to runners at any level or is it a waste of €€ for slower runners? I could get the lung function test on its own.

How much is the test out of interest?

menoscemo

Clearlier wrote: »

I obviously know nothing about the guy you know but I'd be wondering how consistently he saw a higher number in the real world and whether there might have been 'contact' issues. I've seen some suggestions too that the adrenaline of a race can add a few beats to your heart rate. I see it happen in races but I'm not overly confident yet as to whether it raises your overall heart rate or just that it's a reflection of an ability to run closer to your limits in a race than in training.

No he hit a higher number pretty often in the real world and admitted that he gave up on the treadmill task earlier than he needed to.
I'm pretty sure I would do the same!! Back when I wore a HRM I would be totally wrecked during track sessions where I would max at about 180 but in a 5k race I could hold an average of 180 for the race, maxing out at 185-187 on the finish straight.

Ref Adrenaline, surely if you hit a max HR then that's you max; adrenaline or not?

davedanon

According to P&D, max HR is fixed and cannot be affected by training. The only question is whether running to exhaustion on a treadmill represents a greater or lesser exertion than running a hard race and then sprinting flat-out at the finish.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the race effort peaked a couple of beats higher than the treadmill.

Wottle

menoscemo wrote: »

No he hit a higher number pretty often in the real world and admitted that he gave up on the treadmill task earlier than he needed to.
I'm pretty sure I would do the same!! Back when I wore a HRM I would be totally wrecked during track sessions where I would max at about 180 but in a 5k race I could hold an average of 180 for the race, maxing out at 185-187 on the finish straight.

Ref Adrenaline, surely if you hit a max HR then that's you max; adrenaline or not?

I was exact same as above, knew I gave up too easily. There was a difference of about 10 bpm between test and my own races/training.

menoscemo

Wottle wrote: »

I was exact same as above, knew I gave up too easily. There was a difference of about 10 bpm between test and my own races/training.

*cough* the guy in my example, might have be you *cough*

davedanon

What would be quite interesting would be to take a group of evenly-matched teammates, test them all individually on the treadmill, establish peak HRs for them all, then bring them all back another day and do the same test, only simultaneously on treadmills lined up next to each other. I'd bet money that some or all of them would breach their supposed Max HRs.

Wottle

menoscemo wrote: »

*cough* the guy in my example, might have be you *cough*

Thought it might didn't want to presume. That's a few years ago now. Interesting to see what it reads on Saturday and if my Max has dropped with age and inactivity?

Firedance

Bez Bing wrote: »

How much is the test out of interest?

the prices are all on the website http://www.ucd.ie/sportandhealth/sss/laboratory/ the aerobic endurance is E120 which is fairly steep if its not going to be any real benefit..

Clearlier

menoscemo wrote: »

Ref Adrenaline, surely if you hit a max HR then that's you max; adrenaline or not?

In writing this I prepare for a physiologist to come and strike me down because I'm speculating here.

Obviously, your max heart rate is your max heart rate but there are different max heart rates for running and for cycling - explanation I've been given is that running uses more muscles than cycling.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me then that your max heart rate on a treadmill might not equate to your absolute max heart rate which you might get closer to in a race where other factors are at play (such as an adrenaline spike when racing into the finish) in determining your max heart rate.

It's just speculation though. My own experience is that I have hit heart rates in races that I can't touch in training but I'm open to the possibility that I've had contact issues with my HRM and/or that I simply push myself much harder in races than I do in training. I've been toying with the idea of doing a treadmill test for a while.

To re-iterate, all of the above is my musings, almost nothing is based on anything scientific.

RayCun

menoscemo wrote: »

Can a test like this get your HR Max though?
I know a guy did this test and got nowhere near his previously recorded max HR. I know if I was doing this test I would have the irrational fear of pushing myself to the max for fear of falling off the treadmill :P

In TCD you are in a harness attached to the ceiling so falling off is not a possibility

Clearlier

RayCun wrote: »

In TCD you are in a harness attached to the ceiling so falling off is not a possibility

You just reminded me of this:

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

In TCD you are in a harness attached to the ceiling so falling off is not a possibility

That's why I called it an irrational fear

davedanon

menoscemo wrote: »

That's why I called it an irrational fear

We did it in Westpark a few years ago, no harness. There were no high-larious treadmill fails though, thankfully. Imo the breathing apparatus is much more off-putting. As someone who resents wearing even a chest hrm, I found it really annoying. It was almost claustrophobic, and later on when the sweat is pouring off you, you are absolutely convinced the straps are coming loose, even though it's wrapped around your skull tighter than a facehugger from Alien.

aero2k

Just my experience of the tests:

I used to cycle competitively and I had about 5 tests done from '99 to '01.

• I definitely maxed out my heart rate (I was on a bike, not the treadmill) - I hit 200 every time, which I've never surpassed in any kind of competition, though I did match it a few times. The test protocol of increasing load every 3 minutes seems to be a good way of doing it. I had the tests done in TCD and the guy there was a great motivator.
• The max HR is interesting but pretty useless - the OBLA HR is much more useful if you train by HR
• The VO2 max number is meaningless as well other than to see how training affects it. My max recorded was about 74 when I was a few kg overweight, equivalent to about 77 if I was at racing weight - strangely enough I can't seem to find the Olympic gold medals anywhere...
• There should be no fear of falling off the treadmill - in TCD they have a heavy duty harness suspended from the ceiling.
• Regarding asthma, allegedly I'm an asthmatic. They did lung function tests every time, and on one occasion with a different doctor he was refusing to let me on the bike as my PFT (pulmonary function test) was so poor. I had to get him to look up records from my previous visits before he'd agree to proceed. My asthma never affected the tests - I perform poorly on PFTs (FEV1) but it's always my legs rather than my lungs that have been the limiting factor to my sporting performance.
• For cyclists, you get power output at lactate threshold which is useful as there's a direct correlation with speed, but I'm not sure if it's as useful for runners.
• I think a series of tests would be more useful than just one - you could monitor HR against pace under controlled conditions and see if you're getting more efficient.
• I've never done a test since I got serious about running, so it is possible to make progress without it.
• I echo the comments about the breathing hose - it's very claustrophobia-inducing

annapr

RayCun wrote: »

In TCD you are in a harness attached to the ceiling so falling off is not a possibility

that sounds like torture... what if they don't let you stop... :eek:

RayCun

annapr wrote: »

that sounds like torture... what if they don't let you stop... :eek:

you can always just lift your feet up and hang there

straps

What do u wear under ur shorts? Boxers briefs or just commando n the net inside ur shorts? Not a pervy question I tend to get some chaffing from boxers and y fronts!

_Tombstone_

straps wrote: »

What do u wear under ur shorts? Boxers briefs or just commando n the net inside ur shorts? Not a pervy question I tend to get some chaffing from boxers and y fronts!

Cut out the net. Wear boxers.

What material your boxers made of? Mix it up abit.

straps

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Cut out the net. Wear boxers.

What material your boxers made of? Mix it up abit.

Normal cotton boxers. It's more when they roll up a bit from leg movement I think.