Random Running Questions

adrian522

Bez Bing wrote: »

Not trying to substitute just swap. The week I'm on hols has me down for a 20m but I just thought that's a long time to be off running while on hols so I was thinking of swapping in the following weeks 16m and then doing the 20m when I get back the following week. I agree they both have different purposes and I plan on completing both.
The other thing I need to factor in recovery time.

P&D I presume? If swapping weeks may be an idea to swap the entire week, as for example, if he has a tempo on Friday, recovery on Saturday and long run on Sunday I think it best to move all of that to the following week and do the MLR/Recovery/MP Session as that is the way it is designed.

Not sure where your hols are but if in warm weather it might be easier to do the 20 Miles @ easy pace rather than trying to hit MP in hotter weather than you are used to.

Bez Bing

adrian522 wrote: »

P&D I presume? If swapping weeks may be an idea to swap the entire week, as for example, if he has a tempo on Friday, recovery on Saturday and long run on Sunday I think it best to move all of that to the following week and do the MLR/Recovery/MP Session as that is the way it is designed.

Not sure where your hols are but if in warm weather it might be easier to do the 20 Miles @ easy pace rather than trying to hit MP in hotter weather than you are used to.

Yup, it's P&D plan.
I had thought about that and I am actually swapping the previous weeks so that the recovery week is the first week of my holiday.

I'm actually back in Ireland on hols so it should be a lot cooler there than here in NYC. The rest of week actually suits me (in that I should be able to get the main sessions in) it was purely due to the length of time it would take me to do a 20m is considerable more than the MP session which is why I thought of swapping them.
That then lead me to ask what people thought is the "harder" of the sessions. The days around both sessions are pretty similar so I thought it might be less disruptive to just swap the long run sessions around.

You do make a good point about the weather and it would be easier to do a longer slower run in the humid conditions over here than the MP session.

Chivito550

davedanon wrote: »

This would be a 400m race, I assume? Ok, the critical difference here, apart from the fact that you probably had to qualify for the final, and thus were there on merit, is that you were able to use the competition to push you to a pb. Ok, fewer than 2 seconds might seem as big a chasm to you, as 90+ in a 5k for the OP, but how could you possibly say that the experience of being repeatedly lapped would be conducive to achieving a pb?

I think you misread my post. I was last overall, out of everyone in the heats. I wasn't within an asses roar of the final. 48 seconds was needed to manage that.

To be fair, 2 seconds in 400m is probably about 30 seconds in 5K, so certainly far more respectable than 90-120 seconds back. But the point is I wasn't competitive either. Where do you draw the line at what is and isn't competitive? If he wants to run he can, that's the bottom line.

For the record, I think showing up to do the 5k and getting constantly lapped is pointless, and not conducive to fast running or a positive experience. And with so many 5K races out there I can't understand why he would want to, but if he chooses to he can fire away at it. I don't agree it is disrespectful towards anyone really.

averagejoe123

An_Reathai wrote: »

For those who use a foam roller, how often do you use it and for how long each time?

I have started marathon training again so am using mine 5 or 6 times a week for 5-10 minutes each time focusing on my back, thighs, hips and calves. I find it is worth its weight in gold as no injury problems since I go it.

davedanon

I think if you enter a race you clearly aren't going to win, but have a good prospect of achieving a new pb, then that is defensible. It's the basis on which we regularly send athletes to international events, and even Olympic games, after all.

Edit: Heh. The more I think about this, the less sure I am of my position.


All I can say for sure is, if I wanted to use superior competition as a spur to running faster, I wouldn't choose a hopeless mismatch like a track National Championship.

Chivito550

davedanon wrote: »

I think if you enter a race you clearly aren't going to win, but have a good prospect of achieving a new pb, then that is defensible. It's the basis on which we regularly send athletes to international events, and even Olympic games, after all.

Edit: Heh. The more I think about this, the less sure I am of my position.


All I can say for sure is, if I wanted to use superior competition as a spur to running faster, I wouldn't choose a hopeless mismatch like a track National Championship.

Well if I was to listen to that attitude then I'd still be in search of that sub 55.

davedanon

Chivito550 wrote: »

Well if I was to listen to that attitude then I'd still be in search of that sub 55.

I didn't mean it to sound prescriptive. Obviously it worked for you. It just wouldn't be my approach. Different strokes...

Pink11

averagejoe123 wrote: »

I have started marathon training again so am using mine 5 or 6 times a week for 5-10 minutes each time focusing on my back, thighs, hips and calves. I find it is worth its weight in gold as no injury problems since I go it.

Cool. I was wondering should I buy one myself. Saw them discounted very heavily in TK MAXX (Jervis) if anyone is thinking of buying. Over half price.

spaceylou

A lot of talk on the DCM15 Mentored Thread about running easy runs and lsrs about 60 - 90 sec slower per mile than marathon pace. As I am not running a marathon (this year) but am going to be targeting a few more HM and 10 miles over the next 6 months I was just wondering:

1. would the same 60 - 90 sec rule for easy and lsr apply to HM training and
2. what is that per KM - I just can't think in miles.

I suspect I know the answer to the first one but thought I'd just double check. thanks

RayCun

I'd say more like 60 seconds/mile. Or 10-15% slower than PMP, which scales to your speed and works for km too.
(16 seconds/mile is 10 seconds/km, so 60 seconds/mile is just under 40 seconds/km)

spaceylou

RayCun wrote: »

I'd say more like 60 seconds/mile. Or 10-15% slower than PMP, which scales to your speed and works for km too.
(16 seconds/mile is 10 seconds/km, so 60 seconds/mile is just under 40 seconds/km)

And the same principle for HM training?

EDIT: Actually a follow up question...for any distance really. When you say PMP, I take it that means Planned Marathon Pace but if you are planning on taking a chunk off a fairly recent time, do you train based on the recent result or the planned for/hoped for result?

RayCun

Same principle, yes. Lots of easy runs that will develop you aerobically, so slower than marathon pace (and much slower than half marathon pace)

Planned pace, not recent pace.
That said, if you raced a marathon recently and you're already in the training cycle for the next one, how big a difference do you expect there to be?

davedanon

I'm trying to plan my schedule up to Dublin, according to P&D principles, so I'm aiming at an ordinary long run one weekend, followed by an MP long run the next. The 'problem' is, my three scheduled races (R&R Half, Frank Duffy 10 and Charleville Half) are 'getting in the way', as it were. Now, from one point of view they are an ideal way of doing MP runs, the race environment making the effort seem so much easier and all, but I know I won't be able to run these at MP pace. The Half is a distance I have a particular bone to pick with, and Charleville in particular I'm eyeing up for a big, big effort. The question is, will running these races flat-out (6.50, more or less), rather than at, say, 7.15 pace as per MP, have a positive or negative effect on my training? I'd be happy to hear people's thoughts.

ger664

There are tune-up races in those plans. Generally I line up the races as per the plan. I can never see the point in not running a race as a race, that said given Dublin is the aim I would do MP Paces for part of the RNR half and race the other 2 with a long run the day after Frank Duffy 10 Mile

averagejoe123

davedanon wrote: »

I'm trying to plan my schedule up to Dublin, according to P&D principles, so I'm aiming at an ordinary long run one weekend, followed by an MP long run the next. The 'problem' is, my three scheduled races (R&R Half, Frank Duffy 10 and Charleville Half) are 'getting in the way', as it were. Now, from one point of view they are an ideal way of doing MP runs, the race environment making the effort seem so much easier and all, but I know I won't be able to run these at MP pace. The Half is a distance I have a particular bone to pick with, and Charleville in particular I'm eyeing up for a big, big effort. The question is, will running these races flat-out (6.50, more or less), rather than at, say, 7.15 pace as per MP, have a positive or negative effect on my training? I'd be happy to hear people's thoughts.

I would aim to race the Charleville half and do the R&R at MP. For me I think doing the R&R @ MP 12 weeks out from a goal marathon would be a nice confidence boost, I may even look at doing a few miles warm up/ cool down either side to extend out the run. It takes me roughly 10 days before my legs feel 100% again after racing a half so it would have a negative impact for my ability to complete the other sessions in the plan I was following.

As the P&D plan has tune up races up to 15k I would tweak the week of the 10 mile race and do a LSR the following day. I did the Trim 10 mile race followed by 17miles the next day. I feel the combination of the race followed by running on tired legs the next day really stood to me come my goal marathon.

skittles8710

Looking for suggestions for a good running route about 9miles in Liverpool. Heading there this weekend on hols and lsr to do as part of the DCM plan.

Preferably one that avoids dodgy areas

ultrapercy

There is about 15 miles of promenade along the Albert Dock near Jurys and the arena the name of which escapes me. It's mostly paved so might be too hard a surface if you are injury prone but it's tragic free and has some measured miles etc.

davedanon

ultrapercy wrote: »

There is about 15 miles of promenade along the Albert Dock near Jurys and the arena the name of which escapes me. It's mostly paved so might be too hard a surface if you are injury prone but it's tragic free and has some measured miles etc.

The Echo? Also, just in case that sentence is giving someone the collywobbles, I imagine that's 'traffic', rather than 'tragic'. Phone auto-correct no doubt.

ultrapercy

davedanon wrote: »

The Echo? Also, just in case that sentence is giving someone the collywobbles, I imagine that's 'traffic', rather than 'tragic'. Phone auto-correct no doubt.

Correct on both counts. Thank you.

spaceylou

Notice Lidl have running gear in there specials later this week - just wondering if anyone has tried their bag for running? A bargain or ultimately a waste of money when you have to go and buy another one that does the job?

Runner Mojo

spaceylou wrote: »

Notice Lidl have running gear in there specials later this week - just wondering if anyone has tried their bag for running? A bargain or ultimately a waste of money when you have to go and buy another one that does the job?

Do you mean an actual bag or is that some kind of slang I am unaware of?

Pherekydes

Runner Mojo wrote: »

Do you mean an actual bag or is that some kind of slang I am unaware of?

Probably means this:

spaceylou

Yeah an actual bag...like any small ones I have (10 - 15 litres) move too much for running and any with really good strapping etc that I have are that bit bigger 25l +

Was wondering if the Lidl/Aldi ones are any good (based on people's experiences) or would I be better off, biting the bullet and investing in something like the Deuter that is recommended over on the gear sub-forum.

Nolars

Got an exercise bike recently. Any good programs to do that help with running in general?

Ososlo

I did half marathon distance in training today in just under two hours. That included 4 miles warm up easy and two miles cool down easy, with 1 hour in between at 2hr race effort. All felt fine. Tired at end but another few miles in me if necessary.
Considering I did this in 1:59 today, does a target of 1:49 sound reasonable in a race at end of august? Knocking off 10 mins?
Comments appreciated Thanks!
Also would most people bother taking gels racing for this length? It's ages since I've raced anything long. Dcm 2013!

conavitzky

Ososlo wrote: »

I did half marathon distance in training today in just under two hours. That included 4 miles warm up easy and two miles cool down easy, with 1 hour in between at 2hr race effort. All felt fine. Tired at end but another few miles in me if necessary.
Considering I did this in 1:59 today, does a target of 1:49 sound reasonable in a race at end of august? Knocking off 10 mins?
Comments appreciated Thanks!
Also would most people bother taking gels racing for this length? It's ages since I've raced anything long. Dcm 2013!

Will be interested in responses to this myself. In the same boat! Going into a HM race myself not knowing what my target pace is and not having done any 10 mile races or race pace intervals in advance?!:eek:

Krusty_Clown

Ososlo wrote: »

I did half marathon distance in training today in just under two hours. That included 4 miles warm up easy and two miles cool down easy, with 1 hour in between at 2hr race effort. All felt fine. Tired at end but another few miles in me if necessary.
Considering I did this in 1:59 today, does a target of 1:49 sound reasonable in a race at end of august? Knocking off 10 mins?
Comments appreciated Thanks!
Also would most people bother taking gels racing for this length? It's ages since I've raced anything long. Dcm 2013!

I would say that it is a perfectly reasonable target. In fact you may even find that there is more available on the day, but it's good to start with a pace you know you can achieve and then pick it up as you make progress through the race.

The maths seem a bit dodgy though. If you ran at two hour half-marathon pace for one hour, and then added in 6 miles of warm-up/cool-down, you should be finishing slower than 1:59.

aero2k

I reckon that sounds reasonable based on your description of how you felt at the end and assuming the w/u and c/d were a good bit slower than race pace.

I'm a great believer in gels for marathons, but I'd only take them in a half for practice. I carried two in Bohermeen but I was unable to even attempt to take them due to the intensity of the effort. Once I'd recovered after the finish I felt I could have gone another few miles, so fueling wasn't a problem. I didn't do any carbo-loading in the lead-up to the race either, just ate my normal meals.

Good luck!

..and here I am, a couple of minutes behind Krusty as usual....

+1 on the advice re starting conservatively - I've ruined at least one, possibly two recent PB attempts by going mad in the first mile.

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

I did half marathon distance in training today in just under two hours. That included 4 miles warm up easy and two miles cool down easy, with 1 hour in between at 2hr race effort. All felt fine. Tired at end but another few miles in me if necessary.
Considering I did this in 1:59 today, does a target of 1:49 sound reasonable in a race at end of august? Knocking off 10 mins?
Comments appreciated Thanks!
Also would most people bother taking gels racing for this length? It's ages since I've raced anything long. Dcm 2013!

Can't answer the first part (although I'd be surprised if it was no). I didn't take any gels for my last half and it was my most comfortable race at that distance by far, for previous halves I had taken one at halfway, running & eating just doesn't suit me but everyone is different. I think when I asked a similar question a while ago the general consensus was not needed at that distance. Another suggestion was to take one around 20 mins before the race. Good Luck!

Ososlo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would say that it is a perfectly reasonable target. In fact you may even find that there is more available on the day, but it's good to start with a pace you know you can achieve and then pick it up as you make progress through the race.

The maths seem a bit dodgy though. If you ran at two hour half-marathon pace for one hour, and then added in 6 miles of warm-up/cool-down, you should be finishing slower than 1:59.

The faster section was one hour at AT or the effort I feel I could hold for 2 hours in a race so done at slower than my half marathon effort.

Yes sensible approach above. Especially seeing as the second half is faster than the first (Tullamore Half).
thanks!