Random Running Questions

Dubgal72

FeenaM wrote: »

How have I only discovered this thread now?

So many random questions to ask...

First though, has anybody else noticed that after they have a shower, after a run, their lips are a bit tinged purple?

Secondly, if anybody here lost a toenail - did it grow back ok?

Hehe the joys of the hidden depths of A/R

Blue lips are ok after a long run, apparently it's your more vital organs demanding blood and oxygen.

Notwork Error

I wish I'd went out and took it in with a conservative goal in mind and learned that way, not the hard way like I did. I set an aggressive goal and blew up in epic fashion at 18miles, It didn't even sneak up on me, one minute I had loads of energy and the next, I couldn't bend my knees because it felt like my quads were going to sheer and my hamstrings were going to cramp if I did. I shuffled and walked the last 12k in an hour and 35 minutes which was only slightly less than it took me to run the first 21.1km.

Splits:
10k: 50min
1/2: 1:44
30k: 2:32
Fin: 4:07

1:44/2:23 for a 39 minute positive split

That was not fun:pac:. Set an aggressive goal if your willing to suffer like never before on the chance you might keep going but if I'd it all back again, I'd go easy for the first 20 and see how the body handles it when the race really starts at the last 10k.

Sacksian

conavitzky wrote: »

My internal voice is saying do it to enjoy it (if that's the right word) and race your next one (if that happens). Then there is the nagging voice going your training hard just give it a lash.
All opinions welcome.

Just had a look at your times in the 10 round numbers table and you're in a very different place to me when I did my first marathon. Your shorter times suggest a sub 2:50 might be possible, but I think your most recent half would put you on the edge. Personally, I don't think I'd be brave enough to attempt that type of conversion (I was happy with a sub 3!), so if running 2:5* doesn't motivate you, you've probably made the decision already!

Battery Kinzie

Firedance wrote: »

TBH I think you've answered your own question if you've a race coming up and your missing training days. If it were me I'd go to a physio, the sooner you do that the soon you'll be back on your feet

Yeah, you're probably right. I think I'll go if its not better by Saturday.

In the mean time I think I'll do some cycling. Is ~60 minutes on the bike a good idea, once my shins aren't hurting while I'm pedalling?

Singer

conavitzky wrote: »

A quick question regarding a first time marathon.
What strategy / approach did you take? Were you gunning for a particular time or did you do it as a learning experience as you were going into the unknown somewhat?
If you got the opportunity again would you err on the conservative side or would you have been slightly more aggressive or was your approach just right?
I'm planning on doing Dublin and am a bit unsure as to how to approach it. I am thinking stay quite conservative until 30k and try to empty the tank then. Or is even pacing better. I have found on my Long runs that I find the pace easier towards the end and that it naturally picks up (kind of get into a zone/ rhythm - I don't know if Im explaining myself properly here!).
My internal voice is saying do it to enjoy it (if that's the right word) and race your next one (if that happens). Then there is the nagging voice going your training hard just give it a lash.
All opinions welcome.

I have a funny feeling we'll be talking about this a lot over on the Dublin City Marathon Novices thread over the next few weeks http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057429723

It's also my first marathon, and based off a bad experience in the recent half-marathon I'm going to run somewhat conservatively and will speed up towards the end if things are still going well. I'll give it a proper lash in my second

conavitzky

Sacksian wrote: »

I ran my first marathon with a specific target in mind and I had trained for four months with that target in mind. That target didn't change. I didn't kill myself but it was definitely a respectable target and the training and half-marathon beforehand suggested my target was appropriate.

I never thought about running it purely for enjoyment because, if I wanted to run 26 miles for enjoyment, I wouldn't have bothered doing all that training!

However, I was going into the unknown and I didn't have that much experience running, so I wasn't prepared to risk the time I had trained for by getting greedy. My goal was to reach 18-20 miles still feeling (vaguely) comfortable and, overall, run as small a negative split as possible.

My experience on long runs in training had been the same as yours, Conavitzky, and, as it happened, I ran the last few miles faster so ended up with a larger negative split than planned (mainly because I just wanted to finish at that stage!). But I don't think I would have had quite as positive an experience if I had attempted a stretch target or ran a more aggressive first 16-20 miles.

If you have a target in mind that you have been training for and that you would be satisfied with, my advice would be to stick with it.

Having said that, I disregarded most advice I read and just went with what I felt best suited my training and temperament.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I will go with my original thoughts and what you have alluded to Sacksian; run within myself feeling comfortable enough up until the last 6 miles and if feeling good(?!!) push on. I don't think my half time can transfer across as stamina has not been my strong point so defo not aiming in that timezone!
Thanks again.

Slow_Runner

Is a 2 week taper too short for a marathon?? Wondering what people's opinion on it are.

Running DCM and have a 20 miler planned this weekend and 21/22 next weekend. After coming down with a head cold which I want to shake (taking 3 days offs and see how it goes. If i don't get the 20 miler in on Sunday could I modify the plan and do 20 miler next week and 21/22 week after which would only be 2 weeks out.
This will be my third marathon and, while I have quick shorter distances, I have found stamina to be an issue. Have 1 x 20 miler under my belt so far.

Clearlier

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Is a 2 week taper too short for a marathon?? Wondering what people's opinion on it are.

Running DCM and have a 20 miler planned this weekend and 21/22 next weekend. After coming down with a head cold which I want to shake (taking 3 days offs and see how it goes. If i don't get the 20 miler in on Sunday could I modify the plan and do 20 miler next week and 21/22 week after which would only be 2 weeks out.
This will be my third marathon and, while I have quick shorter distances, I have found stamina to be an issue. Have 1 x 20 miler under my belt so far.

I think that for many people a 2 week taper is better than a 3 week one. It needs to be a little more severe though, something like 50% then 30% + marathon. Try it, see how you get on and you can judge for future marathons which works best for you.

mbarr

Hi all, long time lurker the amount of knowledge and experience of the posters around here is amazing, and has been so useful to me as a new runner, so thanks very much to everyone.

I ran the Dublin half last weekend in 1:48:26, and a 5k (parkrun) today in 21:36. First time running both distances. I felt like I went as hard as I could in both races. My plan is to do a 10k programme between now and December, then hit a marathon training programme and run Rotterdam for my first marathon. Anyhow my question is, my 5k and HM times give fairly different projections of my lactic threshold, which should I be training to at this stage for tempo runs? Thanks again!

Myles Splitz

mbarr wrote: »

Hi all, long time lurker the amount of knowledge and experience of the posters around here is amazing, and has been so useful to me as a new runner, so thanks very much to everyone.

I ran the Dublin half last weekend in 1:48:26, and a 5k (parkrun) today in 21:36. First time running both distances. I felt like I went as hard as I could in both races. My plan is to do a 10k programme between now and December, then hit a marathon training programme and run Rotterdam for my first marathon. Anyhow my question is, my 5k and HM times give fairly different projections of my lactic threshold, which should I be training to at this stage for tempo runs? Thanks again!

The normal advice is your 1 hour race pace which is a bit arbitrary but would be between you 10k and 10 mile race paces judging by your race efforts.

A few ways you could establish this;

Get a lactate test done (roughly 60-80e) which will help establish HR and pace guides to have you working at the right effort.

One recent one I have seen that seems to hold up pretty well is your 5k pace + 25-30 sec per mile for your shorter tempo's (20-40 min total) and scale back if running longer than than.

Getting a feel for the right effort is important and over the next few months as conditions worsen using sensory feed back is as useful as the garmin/watch.

diego_b

Just wondering if anyone could advise when substituting in exercise bike sessions for running sessions to maintain fitness (have a knee pain when running at the moment that I need to rest but training for DCM) what should the approach by. The Physio suggested doing some of the sessions on the bike. What is a 5mile/10mile easy effort run equated to on the bike?

adrian522

I think you could replace a 45 min easy run with a 60 min bike session. Try to keep your cadence up and make sure to stretch out afterwards, particularly the hamstrings.

Like running I find it much better in the great outdoors than on a stationary bike.

diego_b

adrian522 wrote:

Like running I find it much better in the great outdoors than on a stationary bike.

Thanks for that, indoors is the only option I have and it is pretty poxy to be honest. Cadence wise, I run at 180 steps per min so replicating same on the bike at 90rpm...I think is the same...
How to do a LSR on a bike now! Hopefully only need a few sessions of this.

adrian522

Yeah, not sure you will manage 3-4 hours on an exercise bike but some some on the bike is better than no time on the bike.

Also yeah, more rpm in a lower gear is better than a harder gear, 90 RPM is usually what I aim for when cycling (Have a cadence sensor on the bike).

Notwork Error

diego_b wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone could advise when substituting in exercise bike sessions for running sessions to maintain fitness (have a knee pain when running at the moment that I need to rest but training for DCM) what should the approach by. The Physio suggested doing some of the sessions on the bike. What is a 5mile/10mile easy effort run equated to on the bike?

That's a tricky one. You'll hear everything from 5:1 on distance(doubt you'll do 100mile spins) to 4:1(or 14 hour bike rides) or 2:1 on time. They really don't equate well as the fitness is different and the biking muscles are weaker for a runner which is pretty individual. HR won't work either as a trained runner will not have the cycling muscle power to sustain a heartrate like they can when running.

I guess the answer is there is no equation and I wouldn't recommend an untrained cyclist to go out on 6 hour bike rides straight away so I think recreating the runs on the bike is not a good idea. You've built up your running fitness over a long period and jumping into an equivalent workload on the bike untrained isn't really a good idea. I think your best option is to start off with 30-60 minutes a day and see how you feel and take it from there.

diego_b

Notwork Error wrote: »

That's a tricky one. You'll hear everything from 5:1 on distance(doubt you'll do 100mile spins) to 4:1(or 14 hour bike rides) or 2:1 on time. They really don't equate well as the fitness is different and the biking muscles are weaker for a runner which is pretty individual. HR won't work either as a trained runner will not have the cycling muscle power to sustain a heartrate like they can when running.

I guess the answer is there is no equation and I wouldn't recommend an untrained cyclist to go out on 6 hour bike rides straight away so I think recreating the runs on the bike is not a good idea. You've built up your running fitness over a long period and jumping into an equivalent workload on the bike untrained isn't really a good idea. I think your best option is to start off with 30-60 minutes a day and see how you feel and take it from there.

Thanks for that, I did think that alright and wondering will I open up a whole new set of problems but certainly could manage 30-60mins each day to hopefully keep things at some level of fitness. I have a backlog of podcasts to listen to so that will keep the brain occupied at least.

diego_b

Notwork Error wrote: »

That's a tricky one. You'll hear everything from 5:1 on distance(doubt you'll do 100mile spins) to 4:1(or 14 hour bike rides) or 2:1 on time. They really don't equate well as the fitness is different and the biking muscles are weaker for a runner which is pretty individual. HR won't work either as a trained runner will not have the cycling muscle power to sustain a heartrate like they can when running.

I guess the answer is there is no equation and I wouldn't recommend an untrained cyclist to go out on 6 hour bike rides straight away so I think recreating the runs on the bike is not a good idea. You've built up your running fitness over a long period and jumping into an equivalent workload on the bike untrained isn't really a good idea. I think your best option is to start off with 30-60 minutes a day and see how you feel and take it from there.

Thanks for that, I did think that alright and wondering will I open up a whole new set of problems but certainly could manage 30-60mins each day to hopefully keep things at some level of fitness. I have a backlog of podcasts to listen to so that will keep the brain occupied at least.

conavitzky

Quick question for the marathoners out there. How should you feel on your midweek medium distance marathon paced run? Should the pace be coming naturally or should you be working pretty hard? Curious with all the cumulative fatigue going on what its meant to feel like.

davedanon

conavitzky wrote: »

Quick question for the marathoners out there. How should you feel on your midweek medium distance marathon paced run? Should the pace be coming naturally or should you be working pretty hard? Curious with all the cumulative fatigue going on what its meant to feel like.

I'm no expert on the MLR, but my tuppence-worth is it should be on the easy side. Certainly no faster than your LSR at the weekend. But I defer to those more knowledgeable.

dublin runner

So, the medium long run includes marathon pace work? If so, it should feel tough but manageable. If you are training for Dublin now is when you should feel tired but strong. Should the pace feel natural? In ways yes but again it should feel hard but quite manageable. The taper (coming soon!) will leave you fresh come race day.

Just make sure to run the easy stuff easy. It's all about balance and all that jazz!

davedanon

Ah, looks like I didn't read the original question properly. A marathon paced run is just that. As far as I know, however, such plans as P&D don't have MP in their MLRs. But I don't know what plan is being followed, so the point is moot to a degree.

_Tombstone_

I didn't know their was such a thing as an easy run.

libelula

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

I didn't know their was such a thing as an easy run.

Aye, they're in the same bracket as a 'handy cycle' and a 'quick trot up a mountain'.

davedanon

libelula wrote: »

Aye, they're in the same bracket as a 'handy cycle' and a 'quick trot up a mountain'.

Or me, as a running novice, with a group ascending a steep hill, and somehow interpreting the coach's reassuring "don't worry, we can take a breather at the top" to mean that we would actually stop running.

pistol_75

conavitzky wrote: »

Quick question for the marathoners out there. How should you feel on your midweek medium distance marathon paced run? Should the pace be coming naturally or should you be working pretty hard? Curious with all the cumulative fatigue going on what its meant to feel like.

I always found them tough enough in peak weeks, but got more confidence during taper as the body was recovering and the runs shortening they felt a bit easier and more a case of not running too fast on them.

conavitzky

dublin runner wrote: »

So, the medium long run includes marathon pace work? If so, it should feel tough but manageable. If you are training for Dublin now is when you should feel tired but strong. Should the pace feel natural? In ways yes but again it should feel hard but quite manageable. The taper (coming soon!) will leave you fresh come race day.

Just make sure to run the easy stuff easy. It's all about balance and all that jazz!

That's exactly how I'm feeling, however, as its my first I didn't know whether I should be backing off a bit because of tiredness. Feeling pretty crap for first few miles but once the rhythm comes it seems ok pace. Thanks for reply.

conavitzky

davedanon wrote: »

Ah, looks like I didn't read the original question properly. A marathon paced run is just that. As far as I know, however, such plans as P&D don't have MP in their MLRs. But I don't know what plan is being followed, so the point is moot to a degree.

Thanks DD. Following the club coaches plan which I think is pretty old school. The specific training phase for the last 4 weeks and for next two consists of a once a week MLR at Marathon pace. The Long runs in the specific phase at around marathon pace or MP+5secs/k (well what I consider to be my MP - his reading may be different! He is a tad optimistic in that regard!) One 10k tempo, one 10k steady and the rest easy running.

conavitzky

pistol_75 wrote: »

I always found them tough enough in peak weeks, but got more confidence during taper as the body was recovering and the runs shortening they felt a bit easier and more a case of not running too fast on them.

So what your saying Pistol is err on side of caution in later weeks and don't push the pace?

pistol_75

conavitzky wrote: »

So what your saying Pistol is err on side of caution in later weeks and don't push the pace?

Well the pace should come easier to you. Say for example MP is 7 min miles. I found at peak weeks of longer tempo runs the effort felt a lot harder than MP. Definitely manageable but harder effortwise. When the mileage reduces overall and the midweek runs get shorter as well the body will feel fresher and you will feel like you can run a lot quicker.

This is where you can defeat the purpose of the session by running it too hard. Don't leave your best work on the roads a few weeks beforehand. Get the intensity right for the specific session.

Tea-a-Maria

Hello. I am a newbie to running. Currently 3 weeks in to the Couch to 5k Programme and I'm really enjoying it so far. My job is offering to sponsor people for the Run in the Dark race on November 11th. Timing wise, it's good, as I'd be finished the programme by about a week and should be able to manage it. (Famous last words!)

Would you recommend this race for someone who's never ran one before? I read the feedback on it from last year and it wasn't hectic it seems.