Random Running Questions

BeepBeep67

Ososlo wrote: »

Anyone know of any 10k races around The Pale this week or next weekend?

ta

Santa Dash (Clontarf) and Reindeer Run (Marlay) both on the 6th are the only ones coming up that I'm aware of.

Ososlo

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Santa Dash (Clontarf) and Reindeer Run (Marlay) both on the 6th are the only ones coming up that I'm aware of.

It's specifically in the next 7 days that I was looking for something. Cheers though for the suggestions!

HelenAnne

Quick question about recovery:

I did the Stook 10 Mile (great race!) on Sunday. My legs are still wrecked today! I tried an easy run into work this morning (7 miles) and I ended up getting on a bus after 5 miles -- my calves were stiff and sore and I couldn't get faster than about 9.20 pace. My legs were just v tired.

I've felt like this a few times after hard races this year -- I was very tired after the novice XC and it took me about 5-6 days to feel springy again after the Race Series half.

This year is notable for 2 things for me -- PBs in most distances and I've turned 40.

Do you think I'm taking longer to recover because I'm older, because I'm racing harder, or both. And apart from choc milk and rest, what would people advise to speed up recovery?

Firedance

HelenAnne wrote: »

Quick question about recovery:

I did the Stook 10 Mile (great race!) on Sunday. My legs are still wrecked today! I tried an easy run into work this morning (7 miles) and I ended up getting on a bus after 5 miles -- my calves were stiff and sore and I couldn't get faster than about 9.20 pace. My legs were just v tired.

I've felt like this a few times after hard races this year -- I was very tired after the novice XC and it took me about 5-6 days to feel spring again after the Race Series half.

This year is notable for 2 things for me -- PBs in most distances and I've turned 40.

Do you think I'm taking longer to recover because I'm older, because I'm racing harder, or both. And apart from choc milk and rest, what would people advise to speed up recovery?

I'm in the same boat the legs are quite sore & tired today (they were ok on a recovery run yesterday). Do you foam roll? I find this very helpful, and a few gentle yoga type stretches throughout the day, also, walk as much as you can in the days following a race, I find it loosens out the legs a lot especially if you are desk bound during the day.

BeepBeep67

HelenAnne wrote: »

Quick question about recovery:

I did the Stook 10 Mile (great race!) on Sunday. My legs are still wrecked today! I tried an easy run into work this morning (7 miles) and I ended up getting on a bus after 5 miles -- my calves were stiff and sore and I couldn't get faster than about 9.20 pace. My legs were just v tired.

I've felt like this a few times after hard races this year -- I was very tired after the novice XC and it took me about 5-6 days to feel springy again after the Race Series half.

This year is notable for 2 things for me -- PBs in most distances and I've turned 40.

Do you think I'm taking longer to recover because I'm older, because I'm racing harder, or both. And apart from choc milk and rest, what would people advise to speed up recovery?

Just easy paced running after a race, the pace should feel very comfortable and dial back the distance. You should feel better after the run is the rule of thumb.
Pace, your 10mile min/pace +30-40%.
Depending how well or not you recover allow 1 days recovery per 1-2 miles raced before introducing any sessions and as always listen to your body - it's rarely wrong

menoscemo

HelenAnne wrote: »

Quick question about recovery:

I did the Stook 10 Mile (great race!) on Sunday. My legs are still wrecked today! I tried an easy run into work this morning (7 miles) and I ended up getting on a bus after 5 miles -- my calves were stiff and sore and I couldn't get faster than about 9.20 pace. My legs were just v tired.

I've felt like this a few times after hard races this year -- I was very tired after the novice XC and it took me about 5-6 days to feel springy again after the Race Series half.

This year is notable for 2 things for me -- PBs in most distances and I've turned 40.

Do you think I'm taking longer to recover because I'm older, because I'm racing harder, or both. And apart from choc milk and rest, what would people advise to speed up recovery?

Pretty normal I would say. A 10 mile race should take 10 days to fully recover from but the steep up and downhills will have done particular damage to the muscles above the norm.
The only thing I would say is why were you trying to get any faster than 9:20 pace? A recovery run by definition is as slow as possible. I know many sub 60 10 mile people would go slower than that on a recovery run.

HelenAnne

menoscemo wrote: »

Pretty normal I would say. A 10 mile race should take 10 days to fully recover from but the steep up and downhills will have done particular damage to the muscles above the norm.
The only thing I would say is why were you trying to get any faster than 9:20 pace? A recovery run by definition is as slow as possible. I know many sub 60 10 mile people would go slower than that on a recovery run.

I wasn't really trying to go faster, I just looked at my watch as I shuffled along and was surprised at how slow I was going -- I was just trying to get to work on time and usually, on a relaxed, easy run, 9 min pace would feel fine. I hadn't even thought of it as a recovery run, tbh, I thought the full day off on Monday would have been enough recovery.

I know I should be taking it easy after a race (that's why I caved in and got the bus for the last two miles to avoid getting any sorer), I suppose I was just asking if other people ever felt really tired out for a few days after a race, or is old age catching up with me . It was only 10 miles! (I know all my clubmates always seem to be out running the day after a race, but I don't seem to be able to do that. I suppose I must just need more recovery than them.)

You're right, the ups and downs must have taken more out of me than I thought.

menoscemo

HelenAnne wrote: »

I wasn't really trying to go faster, I just looked at my watch as I shuffled along and was surprised at how slow I was going -- I was just trying to get to work on time and usually, on a relaxed, easy run, 9 min pace would feel fine. I hadn't even thought of it as a recovery run, tbh, I thought the full day off on Monday would have been enough recovery.

I know I should be taking it easy after a race (that's why I caved in and got the bus for the last two miles to avoid getting any sorer), I suppose I was just asking if other people ever felt really tired out for a few days after a race, or is old age catching up with me . It was only 10 miles! (I know all my clubmates always seem to be out running the day after a race, but I don't seem to be able to do that. I suppose I must just need more recovery than them.)

You're right, the ups and downs must have taken more out of me than I thought.

My first run back after a race like that I would always be wrecked tbh, often my shuffle pace in such circumstances would be over 10 min/mile . I find taking a day off or not makes little difference. Doing a recovery run the day after a race means that the 2nd day after is better, but If I take a day off after the race then the 2nd day is a shuffle.

I'm not sure if it's being older or having learned over the years to put max effort into the race. Probably a combo of both!!

Anyway you are probably wise to have stopped the run at 5 miles, I think recovery runs are supposed to be capped at 45 minutes or so? You'll feel better tomorrow for today's slow shuffle.

Krusty_Clown

HelenAnne wrote: »

I wasn't really trying to go faster, I just looked at my watch as I shuffled along and was surprised at how slow I was going -- I was just trying to get to work on time and usually, on a relaxed, easy run, 9 min pace would feel fine. I hadn't even thought of it as a recovery run, tbh, I thought the full day off on Monday would have been enough recovery.

I know I should be taking it easy after a race (that's why I caved in and got the bus for the last two miles to avoid getting any sorer), I suppose I was just asking if other people ever felt really tired out for a few days after a race, or is old age catching up with me . It was only 10 miles! (I know all my clubmates always seem to be out running the day after a race, but I don't seem to be able to do that. I suppose I must just need more recovery than them.)

You're right, the ups and downs must have taken more out of me than I thought.

I have suffered similarly HelenAnne. I did get out for a few miles yesterday, but today's runmute (only 5.5 miles) was a stiff painful affair and I wished I had the option of a bus transfer! My body's just not used to trying to push the pace on an uphill climb, but more importantly, not used to the pounding of a fast 1.5 mile downhill. I wouldn't put it down to age, but rather the race profile. Seems to hit me more, the day after 'the day after', which might explain why yesterday's day off didn't necessarily help things.

ultrapercy

I had a coach for a while and his main influence concerned recovery. His point of view was recovery starts as soon as race or session ends. Get warm dry clothes on and have a recovery drink immediately after warm down. If it's a tough session or a race that drink may be before the warm down(a big mistake is standing around talking in race gear for 30 min between race and warm down, something I'm always guilty of.) Then shower and proper meal as soon as possible. Day after race swimming was recommended and focus still on good nutrition. Sleep is also very important, one of the main differences between top athletes and ourselves is the amount of sleep they get often up to 14 hours a day. THe catchcry was "the hours before midnight are more important than the hours after", I haven't been to bed before midnight since I was 6 but that's the advice. A very light rub immediately after a race also gets the body on the road to recovery but it must not be a deep rub as the muscle fiber is damaged and not up to more stress. After a race of more than 10k I would take 5 to 7 days of easy running before attempting a session. I would have said 4 to 5 miles easy was more than enough for you today.

HelenAnne

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I have suffered similarly HelenAnne. I did get out for a few miles yesterday, but today's runmute (only 5.5 miles) was a stiff painful affair and I wished I had the option of a bus transfer! My body's just not used to trying to push the pace on an uphill climb, but more importantly, not used to the pounding of a fast 1.5 mile downhill. I wouldn't put it down to age, but rather the race profile. Seems to hit me more, the day after 'the day after', which might explain why yesterday's day off didn't necessarily help things.

You did it a lot faster than me, so I'm not surprised you're feeling it! Very well done! I think you're right, the day after the day after can be worse -- I know I sometimes feel really sore the second day after Pilates class, rather than the next day.

BeepBeep67

ultrapercy wrote: »

I had a coach for a while and his main influence concerned recovery. His point of view was recovery starts as soon as race or session ends. Get warm dry clothes on and have a recovery drink immediately after warm down. If it's a tough session or a race that drink may be before the warm down(a big mistake is standing around talking in race gear for 30 min between race and warm down, something I'm always guilty of.) Then shower and proper meal as soon as possible. Day after race swimming was recommended and focus still on good nutrition. Sleep is also very important, one of the main differences between top athletes and ourselves is the amount of sleep they get often up to 14 hours a day. THe catchcry was "the hours before midnight are more important than the hours after", I haven't been to bed before midnight since I was 6 but that's the advice. A very light rub immediately after a race also gets the body on the road to recovery but it must not be a deep rub as the muscle fiber is damaged and not up to more stress. After a race of more than 10k I would take 5 to 7 days of easy running before attempting a session. I would have said 4 to 5 miles easy was more than enough for you today.

I was whisked away to look at Stoves in Portlaoise after the HM on Sunday, about 3hrs after the race I had a Supermacs, was still in my gear at about 8pm that night when I got home, got the kids stuff organised for school, sat down with Mrs BB had a couple of nice craft beers and helped her finish a bottle of red - 4 recovery runs done, another planned for tonight, the body is super :pac:

Now - would I have preferred to have had a nice massage straight after the race, while someone whisked me up a nice mike shake to sip in a luke warm bath to tie me over until my 'proper' meal was ready - you betcha

Clearlier

pac_man wrote: »

Hope somebody can help.

Basically I'm back training since September and kinda training for a marathon. My longs runs are have been progressive in distance initially starting off at 10 miles and now up to 16 miles. The one area of concern is during the latter stages of my long run, my legs start to become stiff and my stride gets shorter. Is this normal or is it an indicator that my endurance is possibly lacking?

I'm not sure if it has any relevance but I don't bring water or gels on my runs.

Aerobically I'm fine and the pace doesn't drop but the effort levels might rise towards the end of the run which I would have thought is natural?

It's not an either/or condition. Your endurance is lacking but that's why your're training and it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of it. Keep at it and you'll find that as you get fitter it'll take longer before your legs start becoming stiff.

walshb

Even if you are fit as a fiddle 16 miles can well have a negative effect on your legs and joints. Could happen to anyone. It's a damn hard pursuit is long distnace running. It may be nothing to do with endurabce. Your heart and lungs will be the indicator here.

Krusty_Clown

HelenAnne wrote: »

You did it a lot faster than me, so I'm not surprised you're feeling it! Very well done! I think you're right, the day after the day after can be worse -- I know I sometimes feel really sore the second day after Pilates class, rather than the next day.

Times are relative - but I'd imagine we both gave it a similar amount of effort, so are feeling equally as poorly today! If it helps, my second run felt a lot better so maybe you should run home.

TFBubendorfer

walshb wrote: »

Even if you are fit as a fiddle 16 miles can well have a negative effect on your legs and joints. Could happen to anyone. It's a damn hard pursuit is long distnace running. It may be nothing to do with endurabce. Your heart and lungs will be the indicator here.

No walshb. Just no. Heart and lungs do not cause stiff and tired legs at the end of a long run.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

No walshb. Just no. Heart and lungs do not cause stiff and tired legs at the end of a long run.

That's not how I am reading that post at all
Sounds like walshb is saying your heart and lungs could be top notch but your legs will still get stiff and tired if not used to long distances....
I'd agree with that and it pretty much ties in with what myles splitz says here...

aero2k

menoscemo wrote: »

That's not how I am reading that post at all
Sounds like walshb is saying your heart and lungs could be top notch but your legs will still get stiff and tired if not used to long distances....
I'd agree with that and it pretty much ties in with what myles splitz says here...

My experience over the years would tie in with what Meno and Myles say about the aerobic and structural systems being separate, and needing separate training. I'd also add that aerobic improvement is relatively quick (again in my experience) but the leg strength takes much longer to train. Leaving aside shorter lung busting efforts, most of my long races have the legs hurting much more than the lungs - apart from the final dash to the line. In my cycling days I compensated for the weak legs by using a high cadence but that's not such an easy option in running - I already run around 180 spm.

walshb

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

No walshb. Just no. Heart and lungs do not cause stiff and tired legs at the end of a long run.

You misinterprted me. I probabaly should have been clearer. I meant that heart and lungs are the endurance indicator. The stiff legs may be down to the distance and effect that distance running puts on the legs and joints. You could be fit as a fiddle in the endurance-heart-lungs but still suffer with stiff and sore legs from running.

TFBubendorfer

walshb wrote: »

You misinterprted me. I probabaly should have been clearer. I meant that heart and lungs are the endurance indicator. The stiff legs may be down to the distance and effect that distance running puts on the legs and joints. You could be fit as a fiddle in the endurance-heart-lungs but still suffer with stiff and sore legs from running.

Yup, I misread your post.

Like aero2k I find that the legs are much slower to adapt to training than your cardio system. Also, you can be very fit from other sports but your legs would still suffer after a long run because the running-specific fitness would not be there.

Obviously that's exactly what we doing the long runs for. Feeling tired at the end is pretty much the desired effect.

tipping

Had a trip to the physio this morning with a good old rub down on my calves. Nothing particularly wrong just a few tight spots as I've had a bit oif trouble there lately.

So what would you recommend for tonight? (I'm guessing option c)

(a) Stick to the plan (9m easy)
(b) Take the day off
(c) 4-5 miles recovery effort

TFBubendorfer

tipping wrote: »

Had a trip to the physio this morning with a good old rub down on my calves. Nothing particularly wrong just a few tight spots as I've had a bit oif trouble there lately.

So what would you recommend for tonight? (I'm guessing option c)

(a) Stick to the plan (9m easy)
(b) Take the day off
(c) 4-5 miles recovery effort

IMHO definitely not (b) because I find that complete rest leads to slower recovery than a recovery run like (c).

Then again, personally I'd always go for (a). If you think that's too much opt for (c), obviously that's up to you.

Did the physio not give you any advice? If so, follow that.

PDCAT

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

IMHO definitely not (b) because I find that complete rest leads to slower recovery than a recovery run like (c).

Then again, personally I'd always go for (a). If you think that's too much opt for (c), obviously that's up to you.

Did the physio not give you any advice? If so, follow that.

Same as Thomas, i'd go with (a). You don't have an injury, you've had a rub down alright so your legs may feel a little off, but your only planning an easy run.

menoscemo

You can always go with C and if feeling OK at the end then push on and do A?

tipping

Cheers lads. Legs definately feel a little off but I'll go with a few miles recovery progressing into the longer easy run if all feels ok.

ncmc

tipping wrote: »

Had a trip to the physio this morning with a good old rub down on my calves. Nothing particularly wrong just a few tight spots as I've had a bit oif trouble there lately.

So what would you recommend for tonight? (I'm guessing option c)

(a) Stick to the plan (9m easy)
(b) Take the day off
(c) 4-5 miles recovery effort

My physio used to tell me to not run at all the day of a massage and then easy runs only for a couple of days. Not that I ever listened to him mind

chickey2

Does anyone know if the Goal mile is going ahead this year on Christmas day? It was on in Tallaght last year but I can't find any information about this year.

Daisies

So I've gotten this idea into my head that I'd like to do a half marathon early next year. I could probably run 8-10k at the moment. Any suggestions of a relatively easy half marathon for a first timer in Feb or March?

Thanks

PDCAT

Daisies wrote: »

So I've gotten this idea into my head that I'd like to do a half marathon early next year. I could probably run 8-10k at the moment. Any suggestions of a relatively easy half marathon for a first timer in Feb or March?

Thanks

Not sure what part of the country your from.
Mullingar Half - March 17th
Wicklow Half - March 20th
Connemara Half - April 10th
Wexford Half - April 17th

Have ran both Wicklow and Connemara and i'd class them as tougher than your normal half marathon. Would'nt be classified as 'easy'.

Thats just a few of them. I'm sure their is more.

ncmc

Daisies wrote: »

So I've gotten this idea into my head that I'd like to do a half marathon early next year. I could probably run 8-10k at the moment. Any suggestions of a relatively easy half marathon for a first timer in Feb or March?

Thanks

Here is a list of races for 2016 so far:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057523175

Whereabouts in the country are you?