Sunshine hits Dublin - The annual skanger scumbag beach invasion begins.

delw

I was there on Sat & it was obvious from the time me,my wife & 4 yr old got on the dart what was going to happen.The "lads" swigging their bulmers & the "lasses" dressed like they were on a beach in Miami or somewhere:) .
We had a nice time on the beach until more & more started arriving.Must of been 100+ but majority seemed to been there just to enjoy themselves & not cause trouble.
Only thing that pissed me off was them throwing bottles over the wall towards the beach,we were told by the guards to stay close to the wall when leaving

Calibos

pablo128 wrote: »

You do know Bray is in Wicklow?

??

Alun wrote: »

.. and in my 57 years in 4 different countries on this planet I have never once been randomly attacked at all, ever, even in Bray.

dj jarvis wrote: »

good for you , i was , how does you not being randomly attacked in Bray change what and where i was ?

people just want to ignore i have said 3 time i like and would live in Bray no problem , but face facts , its far from the visitors causing most the problem

remember , the reason for the thread

I never said that visitors caused most of the actual crime in Bray. I'm saying that the visitors of a certain type over the last quarter of a century gave outsiders the 'Impression' that we were a crime ridden skanger infested hellhole 24/7/365. That said a certain percentage of assaults in the stats would be Summer Time assaults on the Seafront and a surprising number of Burglaries, theft, shoplifting, scamming etc are from outsiders coming in and getting out on the Dart. Look at the Court pages of the Bray People every week. There is a surprising amount of Bray crime perpetrated by people with Dublin addresses. So you have a situation where a certain percentage of Bray crime can indeed actually be attributed to 'Day Trippers'....and yet....we STILL have a lower crime rate than a comparable area of Dublin.

With regard to personal anecdotes, the point is that for every personal anecdote of people who have been unfortunate to have been a victim of assault in Bray there could be multiple counter anecdotes of people who have never been a victim of assault in Bray so instead of us all comparing anecdotes between each other here in Bray or comparing anecdotes with people from individual areas of Dublin, the safest thing to do to get to the actual facts is look at the crime statistics and to compare like with like with regard to population and geography.

I even amazed myself how the arbitrary geographical area I picked at the beginning to highlight to people the true size of Bray turned out to have a population to within 500-1000 of Brays. ie. A perfect comparison. (32,000 for SoECoDu Vs Brays 31,500 or something)

When one actually compares like with like Bray turns out to be safer than a comparable area of South East County Dublin.

So without even adding the effect that imported crime or assaults would have on peoples impression of Bray you have a situation where a demonstrably safer Town in North Wicklow compared to a similar geographical and populated area of Dublin seems to be regarded by outsiders as a crime ridden hellhole which is not borne out by the actual statistics.

How does that happen?

Could it be that outsiders over the last 25 years during the course of their visits encountered trouble in the parts of Bray they were likely to visit along with half of Dublins Skanger population, ie the part of Bray from the Seafront back to the Main Street. How else do you explain a demonstrably safer town having such a bad reputation thats even spread to the other side of the country.

So to re-iterate my thesis. A demonstrably safer town becomes viewed by outsiders as the opposite because of the bad impression created by being a day-trip destination for Dublins anti-social skanger population for a quarter of a century. That the residents of Howth and Portmarnock are right to be fearful not necessarily for their safety but for their areas future business and inward investment fortunes. That Bray is a case study for this effect. That gentrification can start turning around the fortunes of an area almost immediately as is the case with Bray seafront and that to help extend that turn around in fortunes to the rest of Bray we need to dispel the myths about crime in Bray. That this erroneous bad impression people have of Bray has affected investment for 25 years (along with some inept local governance) in the town, and that as a result of a lack of investment, the town has become run down in areas with empty shops.

I did another stat check. I didn't use Howth or Portmarnock because despite being comparable in size geographically, they have a much lower population.
I used Sutton to Baldoyle to Donaghmede to Killester to Clontarf to Raheny to Kilbarrack and back to Sutton. Similar geographical area to Bray and wouldn't you guess it, similar population. ie around about 31,000. Total Crime stats for 2011?? 3000 again compared to Brays 2700. Bray safer when comparing like with like which no one seems to do. Over and over again on boards of read people slag Bray and say things like "its much safer in Raheny than Bray" or its much safer in Templogue or Ranelagh or etc etc Well yeah!! Because we are multiples the size and population of those areas!! Large town has higher crime than individual Dublin suburb shocker!!

Brays enviable transport links have been double whammy and not always in a good way. Not only did they make us an easily accessible day-trip destination for criminals and anti social elements which I maintain is the cause of the bad impression of the town (which the statistics support IMHO) and the lack of investment but they also create the double whammy of making it easy for Bray people themselves to leave the town and shop elsewhere due to the dearth of investment in the town causing a feedback loop.

Never mind business investment being affected by Brays undeserved bad reputation, I would be very surprised if Bray is even getting its fair share of Government support and investment compared to the similarily sized and populated areas I mentioned.

Augmerson

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Can we not have ONE thread where we wish this country was Germany!

Germany is an example but I think you are missing the point, the Gardai need to be given more powers and I also feel the judiciary system in Ireland needs a serious overhaul. How many times do we hear of someone having multiple offenses and carrying on - that scumbag in Galway who murdered the Swiss student an example. He had serious multiple offenses and yet was outside.

I don't wish Ireland was Germany believe me, I just wish the Gardai had proper powers.

hatrickpatrick

Magaggie wrote: »

Yeh, people from any background can be sadists, but it seems their sadism manifests itself according to their environments/how they were raised; what values and boundaries they were imbued with, how much fear of consequence they have, etc.

It's the fear of consequence part I'm not so sure about. I'm good enough at getting away with things that I don't tend to fear the consequences of rule breaking but the pure and simple reason that I don't hurt others is because I hate seeing others get hurt. I'd say most people are the same. So when somebody lacks that inhibition on the grounds that they couldn't give a f*ck about watching somebody bleed to death after being stabbed, what causes them to lack it to begin with?

I agree that it's environmental, but if we're ever going to solve the skanger problem we need to be a LOT more specific.

Birneybau

Bray, Bray, boring Bray...

fleet_admiral

pablo128 wrote: »

You do know Bray is in Wicklow?

parts of Bray are in Dublin, my brother lives in one such part

conorhal

Holsten wrote: »

I'm always amazed how the Gardai seem to find stopping something like this so difficult.

It's pretty simple really, zero tolerance policy for the following;

- Underage drinking: No id = booze down the drain.
- Public intoxication: You're drunk = You're in the cells for the night.
- Anti social behavior: Acting the maggot = Back of the van for you.

If they followed something like this there would be no trouble at all.

Well obviously, but since we can't be bothered doing it on the highstreet any night of the week, what makes you think the Guards would be bothered doing it on the beaches?

vicwatson

fleet_admiral wrote: »

parts of Bray are in Dublin, my brother lives in one such part

Correct, Little Bray

conorhal

smellmepower wrote: »

Completely unrealistic, there'd be no Gardai left to respond to actual crime in Dublin every weekend if this was the order of the day.

Booze down the drain just inflames the situation and ties up more Gardai.

Not enough cells to accommodate drunk teenagers.Never mind drunk adults once pubs/clubs close.

Where do the those "acting the maggot" go once they're in the van?

Its just teenagers acting the bollocks at the end of the day.Guards show up,send all but the most unruly home and that's it.Happens in Clondalkin every weekend,but we're not on the dort line so it doesn't make the news.

Ah bollix it does! Booze down the drain mitigates the situation, it doesn't inflame it. The Gardai would have plenty of policing resources to deal with 'proper crime' if it took such preventative measures, because teens that have had their booze seized in the morning have slunk off home and aren't involved in a full scale riot or drunken anti-social behaviour later that night.

As for where that are "acting the maggot" go once they're in the van, into 6x6 cages in a warehouse on the outskirts of the city where they can wait untill their parents pay a fine for them and pick then up.

chrissb8

Bray is full of scum. Realistically though the numbers have went down. A lot more when I was younger. Now it's just teens who think there this that and the other in their designer labels. A deep embedded scar across the head/face and a tacky Jesus necklace was when you could tell a person was trouble. Standards of being a scumbag have dropped a lot. On the beaches though you'll always find skangers sunning themselves with a can in hand. Then of course a few hours later they are going nuts fighting each other or something else. Being honest though Bray is fine around summer and with the amount of families out in the sun down the beach skangers generally behave or just don't bother as there is a strong gardai presence on such days.

end of the road

fleet_admiral wrote: »

parts of Bray are in Dublin, my brother lives in one such part

one of those boundries which is rather stupid, either put it in wicklow or in dublin i say

end of the road

conorhal wrote: »

Well obviously, but since we can't be bothered doing it on the highstreet any night of the week, what makes you think the Guards would be bothered doing it on the beaches?

all this is all ready done, the guards realize it isn't going to make a difference

Calibos

chrissb8 wrote: »

Bray is full of scum. Realistically though the numbers have went down. A lot more when I was younger. Now it's just teens who think there this that and the other in their designer labels. A deep embedded scar across the head/face and a tacky Jesus necklace was when you could tell a person was trouble. Standards of being a scumbag have dropped a lot. On the beaches though you'll always find skangers sunning themselves with a can in hand. Then of course a few hours later they are going nuts fighting each other or something else. Being honest though Bray is fine around summer and with the amount of families out in the sun down the beach skangers generally behave or just don't bother as there is a strong gardai presence on such days.

[Sigh] You know you have an uphill battle on your hands dispelling the myths about crime levels or scumbaggery in Bray when its not just outsiders you have to convince.

I've shown statistically that Bray is in fact safer with lower crime levels than other representative areas the same geographical size and population. Now either we have less scumbags than these areas or our scumbags are better behaved. I doubt its the latter. Perhaps Brays problem is they are more visible because they congregate in a single more condensed business shopping district. (Seafront to Mainstreet) Whereas these other areas that I mentioned that have demonstrably higher crime levels have their business and shopping districts dispersed across the old village centres of the present day suburbs and their scumbag contingent along with them. Our smackheads make the pilgrimage to the mainstreet/dart for their shipment/fix whereas the the SoCoDu or NoCoDu smackheads are close enough to the City centre to make the pilgrimage to the methadone clinics or dealers on O'Connell Street/Boardwalk/CC.

We're the 9th largest Urban area in the country after Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Drogheda, Dundalk, Swords. Like I keep on saying, people keep making the mistake of comparing their small town or suburb with Bray in its entirety instead of comparing like with like. For instance, Kilkenny has a Higher crime rate than Bray and yet has 7,000 less people!!! Where is the perpetual boards or general conversational slagging of that Town every time its mentioned? Bray is demonstrably a very safe place to live given its size and population comparing like for like, with Lower crime levels when comparing like for like with less scumbags when comparing like for like.

So how then do you end up with one of the safest urban areas in the country having a reputation as one of the most dangerous?? By visitors being surrounded by imported skangers every time they visited for the last 25 years and erroneously believing that these were homegrown skangers infesting the place 24/7/365.

Caliden

They need pepper spray. They wouldn't be long moving if they got a blast of it.

steddyeddy

Caliden wrote: »

They need pepper spray. They wouldn't be long moving if they got a blast of it.

I don't get why you think introducing violence into a non violent situation would be a good idea.

end of the road

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't get why you think introducing violence into a non violent situation would be a good idea.

people will just latch onto anything because they think it works in other countries when infact it doesn't

TwoShedsJackson

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't get why you think introducing violence into a non violent situation would be a good idea.

Because the first reaction of the internet warrior is always either advocating violence along with a nice punishment/revenge fantasy, and/or a good old 'string 'em up, it's the only language they understand!!!' type comment.

steddyeddy

Calibos wrote: »

[Sigh] You know you have an uphill battle on your hands dispelling the myths about crime levels or scumbaggery in Bray when its not just outsiders you have to convince.

I've shown statistically that Bray is in fact safer with lower crime levels than other representative areas the same geographical size and population. Now either we have less scumbags than these areas or our scumbags are better behaved. I doubt its the latter. Perhaps Brays problem is they are more visible because they congregate in a single more condensed business shopping district. (Seafront to Mainstreet) Whereas these other areas that I mentioned that have demonstrably higher crime levels have their business and shopping districts dispersed across the old village centres of the present day suburbs and their scumbag contingent along with them. Our smackheads make the pilgrimage to the mainstreet/dart for their shipment/fix whereas the the SoCoDu or NoCoDu smackheads are close enough to the City centre to make the pilgrimage to the methadone clinics or dealers on O'Connell Street/Boardwalk/CC.

We're the 9th largest Urban area in the country after Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, Drogheda, Dundalk, Swords. Like I keep on saying, people keep making the mistake of comparing their small town or suburb with Bray in its entirety instead of comparing like with like. For instance, Kilkenny has a Higher crime rate than Bray and yet has 7,000 less people!!! Where is the perpetual boards or general conversational slagging of that Town every time its mentioned? Bray is demonstrably a very safe place to live given its size and population comparing like for like, with Lower crime levels when comparing like for like with less scumbags when comparing like for like.

So how then do you end up with one of the safest urban areas in the country having a reputation as one of the most dangerous?? By visitors being surrounded by imported skangers every time they visited for the last 25 years and erroneously believing that these were homegrown skangers infesting the place 24/7/365.

Calibos where are the imported skangers coming from in your opinion. I don't have much knowledge of Bray but I have had friends on two separate occasions get assaulted there. These friends generally keep to themselves and seemed to be targeted because they weren't from Bray. That said you will get that sort of carry on anywhere.

Bray is a nice town and as a seaside town it could really clean up but I do think they could be more inviting to visitors. I found the doormen on one of the clubs in Bray to be an absolute grasshole. I got it alight but he was very rude to some of the girls with us to the point of being abusive. In fairness the doorman in question was later fired for being rude to people. I just think for a seaside town the local clubs aren't too tourist friendly.

Gran Hermano

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SterlingArcher

Gran Hermano wrote: »

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Haha got to go see this amazing Bray place everyoneguy keeps going on about.

RustyNut

Augmerson wrote: »

I don't wish Ireland was Germany believe me, I just wish the Gardai had proper powers.

What powers do you think they should have that they don't have at the moment?

daveco23

I'm living in Singapore at the moment where there is none of this carry on.Why? Because if anyone gets loaded up on gargle down at the beach and starts kicking off, they can look forward to a couple of months in jail and a few strokes of a rattan cane across the arse, which by all accounts hurts like a motherfcuker.
No questions asked, no moaning about the "rights" of the skumbag, just some swift and brutal retribution.
Result? Very little crime here at all...

Nodin

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't get why you think introducing violence into a non violent situation would be a good idea.

Because KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They'd do it to you.

Nodin

Augmerson wrote: »

Germany is an example but I think you are missing the point, the Gardai need to be given more powers and I also feel the judiciary system in Ireland needs a serious overhaul. How many times do we hear of someone having multiple offenses and carrying on - that scumbag in Galway who murdered the Swiss student an example. He had serious multiple offenses and yet was outside.

I don't wish Ireland was Germany believe me, I just wish the Gardai had proper powers.

Yeah, sure what could go wrong?

jank

Because reforming our judicial system and police force where where we actually tackle mass anti social behaviour will obviously end with Ireland under the rule of a totalitarian regime...

SEPT 23 1989

The Sun is out today............

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Does that mean we get another long post on the metropolis that is Bray?

Teyla Emmagan

This reminds me a bit of a Ross O Carroll Kelly joke. He is always going on about one of Sorcha's friends 'Claire from Bray'.

'Why do you keep calling her that Ross?'

'Because she should never be allowed forget where she's from''.

Reekwind

Threads like these remind me that no matter how much we like to crow about 'progress' and 'modernisation', Ireland will always contain a hefty streak of stifling conservatism and narrow moral norms. So much of our post-independence history makes sense when you realise that prejudices and narrow-minded intolerance haven't gone away, they've merely been transferred elsewhere.

You know that we're as far away as ever from the ideals of the Republic when well-heeled eejits aren't afraid to proclaim that the beaches are their exclusive preserve.

Calibos

Oh give me a break. This isn't a class thing or what area you come from thing, it's an acceptable behavioural norms thing or civilised behaviour thing.

Calibos

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

This reminds me a bit of a Ross O Carroll Kelly joke. He is always going on about one of Sorcha's friends 'Claire from Bray'.

'Why do you keep calling her that Ross?'

'Because she should never be allowed forget where she's from''.

The author is from Bray. He was in my social circle. You do know the books are a satire on the type of people who look down on the likes of Bray don't you?

Calibos

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Does that mean we get another long post on the metropolis that is Bray?

I've been trying to dispel the myths about Bray that raised their head as usual when the name of the town was mentioned.

I've said my peace.

Reekwind

Because "civilised behaviour" is an immutable historical constant? Please. The whole point of narrow-minded conservatism is placing strict limits on what is and isn't considered an acceptable norm. It wasn't that long ago that it was "civilised behaviour" to lock up young women who had children out of wedlock.

Some of the comments expressed in this thread are straight out of the 1930s (almost literally).

miss no stars

Reekwind wrote: »

Because "civilised behaviour" is an immutable historical constant? Please. The whole point of narrow-minded conservatism is placing strict limits on what is and isn't considered an acceptable norm. It wasn't that long ago that it was "civilised behaviour" to lock up young women who had children out of wedlock.

Some of the comments expressed in this thread are straight out of the 1930s (almost literally).

Civilized behaviour never includes violence, intimidation and public drunkenness.

How much else is there to say?


These scumbags all have parents/guardians, why aren't they controlling them?


I think the best solution is to state that children's allowance is not payable for a duration of two years in respect of a child who has been given an ASBO and come down hard with ASBOs on kids who behave like that. You'd soon see manners put on the little sh!ts.

Reekwind

miss no stars wrote: »

Civilized behaviour never includes violence, intimidation and public drunkenness

Except when it has, right? I mean, intimidation is woven right into the history of this country (see: the clergy). Violence less so but it's there and often lauded or advocated; including in this thread. You hold these 'norms' up as timeless when in reality every generation of conservatives defines its own acceptable behaviours.

miss no stars

Reekwind wrote: »

Except when it has, right? I mean, intimidation is woven right into the history of this country (see: the clergy). Violence less so but it's there and often lauded or advocated; including in this thread. You hold these 'norms' up as timeless when in reality every generation of conservatives defines its own acceptable behaviours.

You're confusing accepted norms with civilized behaviour, dear.

tigger123

Reekwind wrote: »

Except when it has, right? I mean, intimidation is woven right into the history of this country (see: the clergy). Violence less so but it's there and often lauded or advocated; including in this thread. You hold these 'norms' up as timeless when in reality every generation of conservatives defines its own acceptable behaviours.

I think you're stretching this a bit. People should be able to enjoy the beach on a sunny day without having to put up with anti-social behaviour.

Reekwind

miss no stars wrote: »

You're confusing accepted norms with civilized behaviour, dear.

How are they different?

tigger123 wrote:

I think you're stretching this a bit. People should be able to enjoy the beach on a sunny day without having to put up with anti-social behaviour.

Agreed. That doesn't however give people licence to vent their snobbish bile. Some of the comments in this thread (in all such threads) have been atrocious, revealing a real lack of empathy or understanding of citizenship. My contention above is that such comments reveal that Ireland is every bit as narrow-minded and conservative as it always has been; only the targets of our abuse have changed.

The same old hypocrisy is there as well. People assert with one hand that intimidation and violence are inherently barbarian, while others call for intimidation and violence from the Gardai to remove these 'eyesores'.

Teyla Emmagan

Calibos wrote: »

The author is from Bray. He was in my social circle. You do know the books are a satire on the type of people who look down on the likes of Bray don't you?

Of course I know that. But the snobbery is FUNNY!!

steddyeddy

daveco23 wrote: »

I'm living in Singapore at the moment where there is none of this carry on.Why? Because if anyone gets loaded up on gargle down at the beach and starts kicking off, they can look forward to a couple of months in jail and a few strokes of a rattan cane across the arse, which by all accounts hurts like a motherfcuker.
No questions asked, no moaning about the "rights" of the skumbag, just some swift and brutal retribution.
Result? Very little crime here at all...

Singapore sends Pilipino cleaners who get pregnant back to the Philippines. It's not a model society.

amen

I've been trying to dispel the myths about Bray that raised their head as usual when the name of the town was mentioned.

I'm from Bray and I've been trying to do that for years.

Nodin

Gran Hermano wrote: »

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"There might be stones on our beach, but at least theres no gurriers"

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Because reforming our judicial system and police force where where we actually tackle mass anti social behaviour will obviously end with Ireland under the rule of a totalitarian regime...

At the moment the debate here is about reforming our police service so we make it answerable. When we get that done, we'll worry about a few kids hijinks.

end of the road

daveco23 wrote: »

I'm living in Singapore at the moment where there is none of this carry on.Why? Because if anyone gets loaded up on gargle down at the beach and starts kicking off, they can look forward to a couple of months in jail and a few strokes of a rattan cane across the arse, which by all accounts hurts like a motherfcuker.
No questions asked, no moaning about the "rights" of the skumbag, just some swift and brutal retribution.
Result? Very little crime here at all...

nobody buys the "theres very little crime in Singapore" story, if you want to find it you will, different cultures will have less crime generally, nothing to do with canes and other nonsense that went out with slavery

end of the road

miss no stars wrote: »

the best solution is to state that children's allowance is not payable for a duration of two years in respect of a child who has been given an ASBO and come down hard with ASBOs on kids who behave like that.

where are we going to get the money and resources to enforce it

miss no stars wrote: »

You'd soon see manners put on the little sh!ts.

no you wouldn't

end of the road

steddyeddy wrote: »

Singapore sends Pilipino cleaners who get pregnant back to the Philippines. It's not a model society.

exactly, crime is rife in the place, you just have to find it, a sespit really

RustyNut

daveco23 wrote: »

No questions asked, no moaning about the "rights" of the skumbag, just some swift and brutal retribution.
Result? Very little crime here at all...

Crimes like possession of chewing gum. How many lashes do illegal confectionary dealers get in this eutopia you speak of ?