Toyota Prius overview.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Why would you make that comparison?

from_atozinc wrote: »

Yeah. I'm confused on this too

Well think about it, the battery is too small in the Plug in Prius, unless you're doing about 10-12 miles in one go that's all you'll get in electric.

Is it worth the premium over the standard prius ?, A Leaf can be got for 12-14K in the U.K, even shipped over much cheaper than a Plug In Prius. With 12-30K miles.

The Leaf while restricted in range has much more potential especially with all the fast chargers now available if most of your daily driving is within 60 winter miles to 80 summer. The fast chargers can extend that to 120-140 with a 20-30 min top up on a QC.

The Plug In Prius while no restrictions on range isn't very useful for more than short trips, and if that's what you mainly do then why drag around an engine ?

You'd even pick up a used Opel Ampera (aka Volt) for as much as the plug in prius with about 30 max miles electric. The downside of the Ampera is it's strictly a 4 seater

On Autotrader U.K, there is a 2012 plug in prius, with 12K miles for 16,999 Pounds and a 2012 Ampera with 50K miles for 16,000 Pounds.

If you wanted and ICE still, the Ampera is without doubt, miles better than the plug in Prius, only thing is it's - one seat in the back.

from_atozinc

I see the torque of the prius is not too hectic..............only 105 lb/ft is not great for a 1.8 engine.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/toyota/prius/hatchback-2009/54743/


I thought the electric motor added more torque or am I wrong ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

I see the torque of the prius is not too hectic..............only 105 lb/ft is not great for a 1.8 engine.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/toyota/prius/hatchback-2009/54743/


I thought the electric motor added more torque or am I wrong ?

No you're correct.

The MK I has a 50 hp motor with 400 lbs of torque and works at about 6500 rpm.

The MK III has an 80 hp motor and 153 lbs of torque but spins about 12500 rpm.

It also has an even simpler gearbox that eliminates the chain. There is only 1 gear and basically capable of lasting half a million miles or more. Keep the oil changed every 100 k miles.

The Prius is one car I'd have no worries about the automatic especially with high mileage.

from_atozinc

Deleted User wrote: »

No you're correct.

The MK I has a 50 hp motor with 400 lbs of torque and works at about 6500 rpm.

The MK III has an 80 hp motor and 153 lbs of torque but spins about 12500 rpm.

It also has an even simpler gearbox that eliminates the chain. There is only 1 gear and basically capable of lasting half a million miles or more. Keep the oil changed every 100 k miles.

The Prius is one car I'd have no worries about the automatic especially with high mileage.

But does the electric motor add any more torque ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

But does the electric motor add any more torque ?

Yes, how much I don't know. You'd have to work out the gear ratio, rpm's etc.

What this all translates to at the wheels I've no idea, but it's not equal to 180 hp in a normal ICE.

It's about the same as a 2.0 L passat TDI 140 HP 0-100 kph of about 9.8 seconds, some quote 9.5 seconds.

It will be more fuel efficient than the Passat DSG and most likely the manual.

TBi

You just have to drive one. You'll know whether you'll like it or not then. Drive it like a regular car. I drove a mk3 and was pleasantly surprised.

All the facts and figures in the world won't matter if you don't even like the car.

According to Wiki the MK III prius has a combined output of 134 HP, sounds about right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Quote

"The 1.8-liter gasoline engine (previously 1.5 liters) generates 98 hp (73 kW), and with the added power of the electric motor generates a total of 134 hp (100 kW) (previously 110 hp or 82 kW). The larger engine displacement allows for increased torque, reducing engine speeds (RPM), which improves fuel economy at highway speeds. Thanks to its electric water pump, the Prius engine is the first consumer automotive production engine that requires no accessory belts, which also further improves its fuel economy.[62] The electric motors and other components of the hybrid powertrain are also smaller and more efficient than the industry average.[63] Toyota estimates the new inverter, motor and transaxle are 20 percent lighter."

End Quote.

from_atozinc

Deleted User wrote: »

According to Wiki the MK III prius has a combined output of 134 HP, sounds about right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Quote

"The 1.8-liter gasoline engine (previously 1.5 liters) generates 98 hp (73 kW), and with the added power of the electric motor generates a total of 134 hp (100 kW) (previously 110 hp or 82 kW). The larger engine displacement allows for increased torque, reducing engine speeds (RPM), which improves fuel economy at highway speeds. Thanks to its electric water pump, the Prius engine is the first consumer automotive production engine that requires no accessory belts, which also further improves its fuel economy.[62] The electric motors and other components of the hybrid powertrain are also smaller and more efficient than the industry average.[63] Toyota estimates the new inverter, motor and transaxle are 20 percent lighter."

End Quote.

interesting, it just seems that a 1.8 liter engine alone having just 98 HP is a bit low, normally a 1.8 litre engine on its own would have about 130hp +

I was kinda thinking that the 1.8 liter engine alone had 134 bhp and then the electric motor added even more bhp.

John T Carroll

from_atozinc wrote: »

interesting, it just seems that a 1.8 liter engine alone having just 98 HP is a bit low, normally a 1.8 litre engine on its own would have about 130hp +

I was kinda thinking that the 1.8 liter engine alone had 134 bhp and then the electric motor added even more bhp.

The reason that the engine doesn't develop high power outputs is that its based on the Atkinson cycle, basically it has a much higher compression ratio than the normal petrol engine, this results in a higher expansion of the gases which further improves efficiency. However this compression ratio is far too high for combustion so the closing of the inlet valves is delayed until the piston(s) is someway up the cylinder before compression begins but this results in a lower volumetric efficiency. What you have roughly is a an engine with an expansion ratio of around 16:1 but an effective compression ratio of around 10.5:1.
"Atkinson" brought out this design around 1890 I think!.

The 1.8 is also de-tuned.

Toyota reckon the next gen Prius petrol engine will be more efficient than a diesel.

from_atozinc

John T Carroll wrote: »

The reason that the engine doesn't develop high power outputs is that its based on the Atkinson cycle, basically it has a much higher compression ratio than the normal petrol engine, this results in a higher expansion of the gases which further improves efficiency. However this compression ratio is far too high for combustion so the closing of the inlet valves is delayed until the piston(s) is someway up the cylinder before compression begins but this results in a lower volumetric efficiency. What you have roughly is a an engine with an expansion ratio of around 16:1 but an effective compression ratio of around 10.5:1.
"Atkinson" brought out this design around 1890 I think!.

Jaysus, Fair enough

from_atozinc

I suppose herself is looking for a car that has a decent size boot and reliable ( no dpfs, complicated modern diesel engines etc ) and that will do 2 things

1 ) Give decent MPG in start / stop city driving and short runs
2 ) Give decent MPG on a Motorway at 120 KPH

Not too many cars will do both of the above , like a diesel is mighty on a motorway but not great in start stop traffic.
1.2 litre petrol will be good in the city, but not that great at 120 kph on a motorway. and a 1.2 car will buy normal standards have a small boot.

And it seems the Prius suits both city and motorway driving, I think

But I will be driving it too and I love me bit of poke dont think a prius has much poke at all

mgbgt1978

You could always test drive one to see what it's really like.
Everybody has their own opinion on how it drives so why not try driving one and see what you think of it then.

from_atozinc

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You could always test drive one to see what it's really like.
Everybody has their own opinion on how it drives so why not try driving one and see what you think of it then.

Get ya. But high level, I think the Prius is good for these 2 things :


1 ) Give decent MPG in start / stop city driving and short runs
2 ) Give decent MPG on a Motorway at 120 KPH

Prius III is poky enough.

What's your budget ?

If you want an ice car with fantastic economy then for about 21k you'll get the Opel ampera in the U.K, it's even poker again.

You can drive in leccy mode for 20-30 miles.

Or BMW I3 Rex

Bigus

Prius II and III are pokey enough and more than well proven at this stage when it comes to reliability.

from_atozinc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Prius III is poky enough.

What's your budget ?

If you want an ice car with fantastic economy then for about 21k you'll get the Opel ampera in the U.K, it's even poker again.

You can drive in leccy mode for 20-30 miles.

Or BMW I3 Rex

Ah tis only about 12,000 Euro.

from_atozinc

Bigus wrote: »

Prius II and III are pokey enough and more than well proven at this stage when it comes to reliability.

Are they the most ideal car for both start/stop city driving AND motorway driving - from an MPG point of view ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Are they the most ideal car for both start/stop city driving AND motorway driving - from an MPG point of view ?

They're certainly ideal for start stop driving and you'll have no DPF or DMF problems.

This is what I can get in the MK II if I want but I mostly get about 4.6 L/100 Kms or 61.4 mpg mix of driving.



You really need to take one for a spin, look for the T-spirit high spec ones, they're not worth more than the lower spec.

Check for a full service record and check if any recall work has been carried out, if not get it done.

from_atozinc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're certainly ideal for start stop driving and you'll have no DPF or DMF problems.

This is what I can get in the MK II if I want but I mostly get about 4.6 L/100 Kms or 61.4 mpg mix of driving.



You really need to take one for a spin, look for the T-spirit high spec ones, they're not worth more than the lower spec.

Check for a full service record and check if any recall work has been carried out, if not get it done.

That's some mpg - especially for city driving.

What's the story with the batteries - do they have to be replaced after a certain number of years ?

Any other special servicing needed ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

That's some mpg - especially for city driving.

What's the story with the batteries - do they have to be replaced after a certain number of years ?

Any other special servicing needed ?

No special servicing needed, only gearbox oil every 100 kms, it's not part of the Toyota scheduled but it's highly recommended on the Priuschat site, and I got mine done.

The batteries last the life of the car, there are ones in the MK I still going strong. They will loose capacity over time but it's a well engineered car.

Getting that mileage takes practice, it's a different car than what you'll be used to so it's only natural that it takes time to adapt, not bad for 10 year old hybrid tech and a petrol automatic !

from_atozinc

How much does the gearbox oil change cost ?

Roughly how much woukd a new battery cost ?

Do prius's only come in PETROL and AUTOMATIC?

TBi

It's interesting, all the questions you ask about a Prius i found out for myself by googling and reading about it. Also i found out if it had enough poke for me by actually driving one (it does and i have a Mini Cooper S).

I wonder which one of us found out the most information faster.

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

How much does the gearbox oil change cost ?

Roughly how much woukd a new battery cost ?

Do prius's only come in PETROL and AUTOMATIC?

Gearbox oil cost about 70 euros, the oil is expensive. Once every 100k miles is not a lot IMO. You can do it yourself, just make sure the fill plug opens before you drain the oil. Oh and don't drain the coolant out either.

Speaking of which, I must find out about the coolant because that needs to be done at some stage and it's not DIY because you don't want a air lock in the Prius.

Prius is only automatic and petrol but who on earth would want a manual ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Roughly how much woukd a new battery cost ?

Can cost around 2 k for a new one fitted, though I doubt you'd need to, you'll get one from the u.k from a crashed Prius much cheaper, though I don't know how much it would cost to fit, you could do it yourself if you're handy with electrics, though the 360 volts DC is dangerous.

fricatus

Earlier on in this thread, someone was talking about "pulse and glide" as a technique to get maximum efficiency out of the car.

Say you're on a motorway doing a constant speed of say 100-120 kph - I take it the Prius has cruise control - what is the best approach? Pulse and glide or use cruise? Does the cruise control do a sort of pulse and glide to increase efficiency?

BMJD

It doesn't really work on the motorway IMO. Speed is to high.

120 km/h = roughly 4.5 - 5 l/100km

The most efficient motorway speed/method in my experience is to stay safely behind a lorry at an indicated 97km/h, this results in consumption of 2.5 - 3.5 l/100km. These figures are for a Mk iii Prius and are approximate, based on my own experiences.

fricatus

fricatus wrote: »

Earlier on in this thread, someone was talking about "pulse and glide" as a technique to get maximum efficiency out of the car.

Say you're on a motorway doing a constant speed of say 100-120 kph - I take it the Prius has cruise control - what is the best approach? Pulse and glide or use cruise? Does the cruise control do a sort of pulse and glide to increase efficiency?

Cruise control isn't efficient, what's efficient is holding a steady throttle position.

What you may gain on the motorway in a diesel, you'll loose in town and city driving.

My old 2003 A4 TDI 130 hp Multitronic averaged 48 mpg per tank V 60-64 for the prius. The prius will me more economical than most if not all diesel automatics and most manuals, of similar size and power, the MK III should be better again.

Some diesels have stop start and is a pain in the arse because it can be terrible laggy V the Prius because the motor moves the prius straight away and the engine kicks in in the meantime when you need more power.

I'm tired telling people, what you get on the motorway is meaningless, it;s what you average per tank is what matters, not some trip on the motorway.

Some people reset the trip computer after each trip or worse again in the middle of driving to see what they get on a particular road, this is ridiculous and will not give any accurate indication of your consumption. Best thing to do is not reset until you fill the tank. Then take a reading after you refill as I did above, I had 3 bars remaining at that stage, probably close to 2.

fricatus

fricatus wrote: »

Does the cruise control do a sort of pulse and glide to increase efficiency?

Yes it can, but it's not nearly as effective because cruise control is not efficient.

Cruise tries to keep the speed not efficiency.

Pulse and glide works best up to 71 kph where you've better chance of getting the car to roll efficiently in neutral, but at higher speeds you can use just the motor and battery to keep momentum going while the engine is off. Just lift off the throttle and push gently until energy flows only from the battery and the engine is off.

To get neutral, lift off the accelerator and push gently until no energy flows at all and the engine is off.