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Who's responsible - landlord or tenant ?

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  • 01-06-2014 6:12pm
    #1
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    I rented my house to my brother for 1 year and moved in with my mother (he got the house at a good price while he looked to trade up and I got much needed cash.

    However, he is due to move out this weekend and he told me yesterday that the nozzle off the top of the kitchen tap broke off in his hand ....

    It is a tall up and over tap with a spray nozzle that can pull out and extend and there is a ring at the top of the nozzle that can be turned 180 degrees to switch from single flow to spray - it was this that broke entirely from the rest of the tap.

    He says this is normal wear and tear - he says the tap is 10 years old in any case and that he's not responsible.

    The tap was from InHouse kitchens and it cost me 300 euro at the time - its a good quality, hard wearing tap. In fact they still sell it I think as I saw one almost identical on their website.
    I've used it for 9 years no problems, he has used it for 11 months until now. I don't believe it just fell off in his hands. I think nozzle maybe was stiff and he turned it too hard and the plastic connections inside all broke, and when you look inside you can see where the grey plastic brackets have turned white where pressure was applied and all 4 plastic attachments broke.

    Who is responsible for replacing the tap? Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated thanks.


Comments

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    #2
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    You


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    #3
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    Why are you so sure that this might not have been misuse ... surely there's some room for compromise or doubt here ..... I only know one landlord and he told me that he has looked after 30 flats for 20 years and never had to replace a kitchen tap a. and he said his are inexpensive hardware store type taps ....


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    #4
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Just replace it, Is messing up family ties worth the price of a cheap Aldi tap ???


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    #5
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Normal ware & tear.

    He is your brother. Blood should be thicker than water. I wouldn't be falling out over this.


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    #6
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    Where do you draw the line between mis-use and normal wear and tear ....

    I would never have rented to strangers because I wouldn't have expected them to treat my home as carefully as I would but the agreement with my brother was that he would and thats why he got he so cheap ...... it was understood between us that at 40% below going rates there was no money factored into rent for damages/breakages ... he had 6 weeks to bring to my attention anything that wasn't working properly or was dodgy and he didn't .... I feel he should be at least paying for 50% of a the replacement cost ..... and I feel really strongly about that but wanted to pose the question here to get some clarity in my mind because I'm emotionally attached to the house and the tenant ....


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    #7
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Heres the problem,

    your emotionally attached to the house.. When you rent you have to cut that nonsense out. And the fact you rented to your brother involves a family aspect, which frankly you should not have done. Never mix business with family.


    As i said, just change the tap, it will cost you 25 Euro for a new tap.


    It sounds like you are emotionally attached to the tap.. or your wallet.

    Is all this nonsense really worth it !?


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    #8
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    tigergiant wrote: »
    Where do you draw the line between mis-use and normal wear and tear ....

    I would never have rented to strangers because I wouldn't have expected them to treat my home as carefully as I would but the agreement with my brother was that he would and thats why he got he so cheap ...... it was understood between us that at 40% below going rates there was no money factored into rent for damages/breakages ... he had 6 weeks to bring to my attention anything that wasn't working properly or was dodgy and he didn't .... I feel he should be at least paying for 50% of a the replacement cost ..... and I feel really strongly about that but wanted to pose the question here to get some clarity in my mind because I'm emotionally attached to the house and the tenant ....

    Family is where you draw the line.
    :-)


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    #9
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Replace it yourself. Unless he deliberately sabotaged your tap and you can prove that it's your responsibility to replace it.


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    #10
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    He also told me that one of the stained glass panels in the front door has a crack in it .... this happened in April .... he says that's also normal wear and tear ... that is going to cost at least 300 to be removed, re-glazed, repaired and replaced in the door.


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    #11
    Thespoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭Thespoofer


    tigergiant wrote: »
    He also told me that one of the stained glass panels in the front door has a crack in it .... this happened in April .... he says that's also normal wear and tear ... that is going to cost at least 300 to be removed, re-glazed, repaired and replaced in the door.

    If I was you I consider getting out of the landlord game.


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    #12
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    tigergiant wrote: »
    He also told me that one of the stained glass panels in the front door has a crack in it .... this happened in April .... he says that's also normal wear and tear ... that is going to cost at least 300 to be removed, re-glazed, repaired and replaced in the door.

    I see, your a glazier aswell as a semi professional landlord.


    Replace the tap, call it a day and move back into the house. Or sell the place. You are too attached to it to make it a business.


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    #13
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    listermint wrote: »
    Heres the problem,

    your emotionally attached to the house.. When you rent you have to cut that nonsense out. And the fact you rented to your brother involves a family aspect, which frankly you should not have done. Never mix business with family.


    As i said, just change the tap, it will cost you 25 Euro for a new tap.


    It sounds like you are emotionally attached to the tap.. or your wallet.

    Is all this nonsense really worth it !?

    I find it quite sad that you can't do business with family, surely if you can't trust your family who can you trust .. anyway I've sadly been proven wrong ... you can't and I've learnt my lesson .... But I don't think its fair to say I'm emotionally attached to the tap .... or my wallet .... it's a bit facetious ... although in all honesty I am attached to my wallet as I am a single parent with 2 children who only became unemployed for the first time in my life 3 years ago so I have finite reserves and it doesn't look like they're going to replenished anytime soon .... whereas he has 2 businesses, neither of which he works in more than a few hours a week and he's got oodles more money than me ....


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    #14
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    tigergiant wrote: »
    I find it quite sad that you can't do business with family, surely if you can't trust your family who can you trust .. anyway I've sadly been proven wrong ... you can't and I've learnt my lesson .... But I don't think its fair to say I'm emotionally attached to the tap .... or my wallet .... it's a bit facetious ... although in all honesty I am attached to my wallet as I am a single parent with 2 children who only became unemployed for the first time in my life 3 years ago so I have finite reserves and it doesn't look like they're going to replenished anytime soon .... whereas he has 2 businesses, neither of which he works in more than a few hours a week and he's got oodles more money than me ....

    If he had oodles more money im sure he would have purchased a home of his own, Anyway as i said. Move on from this, its all getting a little silly over a tap.


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    #15
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    Just to clarify this wasn't some kind of business venture ... this was an interim situation .... it was 2 family member doing each other a favour ... he needed a bigger house with a 3rd child on the way and I needed some cash ... it was never going to turn into a business ... I am not a landlord and don't plan to be ... I was simply looking for some advice as a lay person ... so pipe down the naysayers


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    #16
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    tigergiant wrote: »

    I rented my

    ..... tall up and over tap with a spray nozzle that can pull out and extend and there is a ring at the top of the nozzle that can be turned 180 degrees to switch from single flow to spray....

    the tap is 10 years old in any case....

    the attachments broke...

    Who is responsible for replacing the tap?

    You are, its a ten year old tap, its a wear and tear issue. What you paid for it is irrelevant.


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    #17
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    tigergiant wrote: »
    Just to clarify this wasn't some kind of business venture ... this was an interim situation .... it was 2 family member doing each other a favour ... he needed a bigger house with a 3rd child on the way and I needed some cash ... it was never going to turn into a business ... I am not a landlord and don't plan to be ... I was simply looking for some advice as a lay person ... so pipe down the naysayers

    Are you tax compliant? Regardless of whether it's family or not, once you are receiving income you are obliged to do a tax return and to pay income tax if it is due.


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    #18
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    tigergiant wrote: »
    Just to clarify this wasn't some kind of business venture ... this was an interim situation .... it was 2 family member doing each other a favour ... he needed a bigger house with a 3rd child on the way and I needed some cash ... it was never going to turn into a business ... I am not a landlord and don't plan to be ... I was simply looking for some advice as a lay person ... so pipe down the naysayers

    when several people tell you that replacing the tap is your responsibility and an all round good idea. You should take it as a given rather than waiting to hear what you want to hear. Why ask in the first place? if you have made your own mind up.


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    #19
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    Ok thanks to everyone for the advice .... I will replace the tap and I won't fall out with him .... if I hadn't posted here I would have dug my heels and maybe fallen in as I felt very strongly that it wasn't a wear and tear issue so thanks for that.


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    #20
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Are you tax compliant? Regardless of whether it's family or not, once you are receiving income you are obliged to do a tax return and to pay income tax if it is due.

    Jeez gets pretty nasty around here, what's wrong with people .... this is my first post and probably my lset .... I've been a stalker here for a long time but plucked up the courage to ask a simple question but some people are so mean and nasty .... I can tell you you need a thick skin to hang around .... but thanks to all of people who offered constructive advice as I have you to thank for saving my relationship with my little bro


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    #21
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    tigergiant wrote: »
    Ok thanks to everyone for the advice .... I will replace the tap and I won't fall out with him .... if I hadn't posted here I would have dug my heels and maybe fallen in as I felt very strongly that it wasn't a wear and tear issue so thanks for that.

    You're doing the right think, renting out means you will end up paying these kind of things, believe me it could be worse!


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    #22
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    tigergiant wrote: »
    Jeez gets pretty nasty around here, what's wrong with people .... this is my first post and probably my lset .... I've been a stalker here for a long time but plucked up the courage to ask a simple question but some people are so mean and nasty .... I can tell you you need a thick skin to hang around .... but thanks to all of people who offered constructive advice as I have you to thank for saving my relationship with my little bro

    No nastiness at all..you refer to yourself as a landlord yet said "this wasn't a business venture". You received money, you may or may not be liable for tax but you are obliged by law to complete a tax return. My post was simply asking a question, in case you weren't aware that you had to. I take it by your answer that you haven't.


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    #23
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    athtrasna wrote: »
    No nastiness at all..you refer to yourself as a landlord yet said "this wasn't a business venture". You received money, you may or may not be liable for tax but you are obliged by law to complete a tax return. My post was simply asking a question, in case you weren't aware that you had to. I take it by your answer that you haven't.

    You're a begrudger and like all good begrudgers you looked for a stick to hit me with ... jog on and annoy spoil someone elses thread


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    #24
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    tigergiant wrote: »
    You're a begrudger and like all good begrudgers you looked for a stick to hit me with ... jog on and annoy spoil someone elses thread

    Actually I was until very recently a tax compliant landlord (house is no longer rented) so I resent being expected to subsidise people who don't declare rental income :mad:


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    #25
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    tigergiant wrote: »
    You're a begrudger and like all good begrudgers you looked for a stick to hit me with ... jog on and annoy spoil someone elses thread

    Less of the attitude please, if you've a problem with a post report it and leave it to the mods to sort out


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    #26
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Personally I think it is great you going to forget about the tap & glass.

    As far as posting more threads, you shouldn't let one thread put you off. I know when you post you are leaving yourself wide open for criticism but they aren't all bad.


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    #27
    tigergiant
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭tigergiant


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Actually I was until very recently a tax compliant landlord (house is no longer rented) so I resent being expected to subsidise people who don't declare rental income :mad:

    I will use the forum again and I won't be put off because the experience has overall been a good one and I am very grateful to all. I always calculate that out of every 12 nice people out there, there's 1 nasty one ... Jesus lived with them odds and so can I.
    But just one point to @athtrasna before I go I am self supporting, I cost you nothing AT THE MOMENT. I have been in employment for the last 25 years. I lost my business in 2010 and as I was self employed and as I had savings I was not entitled to anything from the government. I am still not entitled to anything. However, if I stop making the repayments on my home because I run out of money I will become homeless and at that point I will begin to cost you - you will have to pay for my new home plus unemployment benefit for me and my two children ...... so does it bother you more to have to subsidise people like me (not!) or that I rented out my home (to my brother) in order to save you having to do that?


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    #28
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    That's beside the point. You are obliged to do a tax return on rental income http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it70.html#section1


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    #29
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    tigergiant, athtrasna....take it to pm.


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    #30
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    tigergiant wrote: »
    I find it quite sad that you can't do business with family, surely if you can't trust your family who can you trust .. anyway I've sadly been proven wrong ... you can't and I've learnt my lesson .... But I don't think its fair to say I'm emotionally attached to the tap .... or my wallet .... it's a bit facetious ... although in all honesty I am attached to my wallet as I am a single parent with 2 children who only became unemployed for the first time in my life 3 years ago so I have finite reserves and it doesn't look like they're going to replenished anytime soon .... whereas he has 2 businesses, neither of which he works in more than a few hours a week and he's got oodles more money than me ....
    Why on earth did you rent the property to him for below market rate given a) you're in need of the money and b) he has the money?


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