Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

Little CuChulainn · 15-09-2014 2:13pm

cowzerp wrote: »

because all will have that right, thats why

And to the people saying it's not private, it's private like bord gais was and they couldn't touch your wages

How is this on legal discussions when most don't even know what the simplest laws are!

You don;t have a right to legal aid.

Paulw wrote: »

Where did you see that? Last I saw was that the Revenue had no power to collect unpaid water charges fees.

Maybe I'm mistaken, it might go to the sheriff instead.

cowzerp wrote: »

Also, to offer a contract you need to offer something, this is offering nothing we don't already have or have not paid for for years, All this infrastructure has been paid for by our tax money, Irish water will be gone in a year along with this water charge scam.

You are being offered a supply of water. Doesn't matter if you use to get it free. Bins use to be free too.

Bepolite · 15-09-2014 2:16pm

cowzerp wrote: »

No meter will be attaching to my property, that's my right and 1 I won't be allowing

Who bears the cost of detaching you from the mains supply and sewerage system?

Should you have to prove you have the well and septic tank system in place? I personally think you should on public health grounds.

Are you also harvesting rain water? Aren't you worried about potential health risks by using your own supply. Just curious I've not done much research on it, it could possibly be better for you as far as I know.

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 2:24pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are being offered a supply of water. Doesn't matter if you use to get it free. Bins use to be free too.

not free and never was, fact they are using the water moneyt to service depts by banks we don't owe doesn't change this fact

Bepolite wrote: »

Are you also harvesting rain water? Aren't you worried about potential health risks by using your own supply. Just curious I've not done much research on it, it could possibly be better for you as far as I know.

I wouldn't drink our water so if harvesting water it would for cleaning etc

PS, I won't be detaching from the water supply as my money has and will continue to pay for it, just not for loads of people to be looked after in that quango.

Paulw · 15-09-2014 2:29pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Maybe I'm mistaken, it might go to the sheriff instead.

From Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013

(4) Where a customer fails to pay a charge under this section, it shall be recoverable by Irish Water as a simple contract debt in any court of competent jurisdiction.

So, no Revenue power to collect the debt. It is treated the same as any other debt to any company. Eventually it would get to the sheriff.

Johnboy1951 · 15-09-2014 2:50pm

cowzerp wrote: »

They will have to take thousands to court, and all with legal aid!

they do have to take people to court, they cant by law touch your bank as this is a private company and not the government

No meter will be attaching to my property, that's my right and 1 I won't be allowing

The meter is not placed on private property, it is attached between the mains supply and your 'tap-off' which is not on private property.
In fact they even specify the distance for which they take responsibility, from that tapping.

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 2:53pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The meter is not placed on private property, it is attached between the mains supply and your 'tap-off' which is not on private property.
In fact they even specify the distance for which they take responsibility, from that tapping.

it will be attached to my property!
and taking my private information that i don't want
it's really a non issue as I won't be allowing 1 be installed anyway.

Johnboy1951 · 15-09-2014 2:56pm

cowzerp wrote: »

it will be attached to my property!
and taking my private information that i don't want
it's really a non issue as 1 won't be allowing 1 be installed anyway.

You do not seem to understand ..... you have zero control over what they attach to the mains pipes so if they wish to insert a meter between your pipe and their pipe they are entitled to do so, and there is nothing at all you can do about it.

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 2:58pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You do not seem to understand ..... you have zero control over what they attach to the mains pipes so if they wish to insert a meter between your pipe and their pipe they are entitled to do so, and there is nothing at all you can do about it.

see this is were you don't understand, anything that comes from the main pipe to your house is technically your's, if it leaks you will get the bill, can you explain how that is by your reasoning?

Little CuChulainn · 15-09-2014 2:59pm

cowzerp wrote: »

see this is were you don't understand, anything that comes from the main pipe to your house is technically your's,

Source?

Carawaystick · 15-09-2014 3:02pm

cowzerp wrote: »

see this is were you don't understand, anything that comes from the main pipe to your house is technically your's, if it leaks you will get the bill, can you explain how that is by your reasoning?

This is somehow different for natural gas or electricity?

Johnboy1951 · 15-09-2014 3:07pm

cowzerp wrote: »

see this is were you don't understand, anything that comes from the main pipe to your house is technically your's, if it leaks you will get the bill, can you explain how that is by your reasoning?

No.
If the connection at the main pipe leaks it is not your place to fix it ..... if a joint on your property leaks then yes it is your responsibility.

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 3:08pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Source?

is this how this page works? you make a claim with no source, i make a counter claim and am expected to have a source?!

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 3:10pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No.
If the connection at the main pipe leaks it is not your place to fix it ..... if a joint on your property leaks then yes it is your responsibility.

your property is considered out to the main pipe, and out to the center of the road also, you will be billed for it to be repaired if it's the pipe leading from the main pipe to your home.

Little CuChulainn · 15-09-2014 3:15pm

cowzerp wrote: »

is this how this page works? you make a claim with no source, i make a counter claim and am expected to have a source?!

Well I accepted I was incorrect on the Revenue thing so I'm hardly going to try and find a source for it am I?

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-09-2014 3:17pm

cowzerp wrote: »

your property is considered out to the main pipe, and out to the center of the road also, you will be billed for it to be repaired if it's the pipe leading from the main pipe to your home.

Did your plumber buddy tell you this crock of crap as well or did you pluck this from some freeman facebook page?

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-your-drinking-water-problems-your-water-supply/who

The part of the service pipe that links the water main in the street to the boundary of your property is the responsibility of Irish Water.

The part of the service pipe from the boundary of your property to and within your house is your responsibility if you are the owner otherwise it is your landlord’s.

Fred Swanson · 15-09-2014 3:19pm

This post has been deleted.

cowzerp · 15-09-2014 3:22pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did your plumber buddy tell you this crock of crap as well or did you pluck this from some freeman facebook page?

you're rude and have no clue about any of this, A plumber is an expert in the field of pipes etc, he has been fixing these pipes for many years for the council and they do sub contracting work now for irish water, but i'll leave you to your cheap jibes as thats all you have.

Paulw · 15-09-2014 3:26pm

cowzerp wrote: »

your property is considered out to the main pipe, and out to the center of the road also, you will be billed for it to be repaired if it's the pipe leading from the main pipe to your home.

Not sure where you got that info from. But, from Irish Water website -

http://www.water.ie/help-centre/questions-and-answers/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-water-leak-on-my-property/

They mention the boundary of your property, nothing about up to the mains pipe.

FreudianSlippers · 15-09-2014 3:26pm

cowzerp wrote: »

is this how this page works? you make a claim with no source, i make a counter claim and am expected to have a source?!

In fairness, you are the one making claims really. Others are saying that they don't agree because they have never seen/heard evidence to support your claims.

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-09-2014 3:28pm

cowzerp wrote: »

you're rude and have no clue about any of this, A plumber is an expert in the field of pipes etc, he has been fixing these pipes for many years for the council and they do sub contracting work now for irish water, but i'll leave you to your cheap jibes as thats all you have.

You keep posting lies as fact not me!

FreudianSlippers · 15-09-2014 3:44pm

There are obviously a few issues floating around the end of this thread which could do with clarification.

UÉ/IW are a private company limited by shares, however those shares are wholly owned by the Irish Government – i.e. it is a semi-state body. (Source: Sections 4 & 5 of the Water Services Act 2013)

“I already pay for water!” – you used to pay for water via tax to the Local Authorities. They will now no longer be paying for this and will use the money they get for other, different, things.

"Leaks all around the shop!" If the leak is within the boundary of your property, it is the property owner’s responsibility – outside of that, it’s up to UÉ/IW and the Local Authority to repair at no cost to you. (Source: http://www.cer.ie/customer-care/water/faqs)

"Not gonna pay it mate!" “ If households can afford to pay water charges but fail to pay, Irish Water is empowered under Irish water legislation to recover debt in an appropriate manner. Water disconnection of domestic properties due to non-payment of domestic water charges will be prohibited.” (Source: http://www.cer.ie/customer-care/water/faqs)

"But we will all get legal aid when I’m brought to court for debt recovery." Not likely. Firstly, you’d have to show you are of limited means. Then you get to pass this handy-dandy merit test:

(1) You have as a matter of law reasonable grounds for instituting, defending or being a party to the proceedings for which legal aid is sought
(2) You are reasonably likely to be successful in the proceedings
(3) The proceedings for which legal aid is sought are the most satisfactory means of achieving the result sought by you
(4) Having regard to all the circumstances (including the probable cost to the Board, measured against the likely benefit to you), it is reasonable to grant the application
(5) Your case does not fall within the excluded areas.

(Source: well I had to pay over €10k to go to the King’s Inns for a year, other than fancy dinners and snuff you’d hope I learned something… but if you don’t want to take my word for it, the man government has a pretty nifty website called Citizens Information - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/legal_aid_and_advice/civil_legal_advice_and_legal_aid.html)

“Well, ok, but after I lose my civil case they will want to attach and commit… THAT’S definitely criminal” – check out that CI again: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/legal_aid_and_advice/criminal_legal_aid.html
You might get it if you can show that you have limited means, but remember telling porky-pies about your income is an offence.

To the best of my knowledge this is the factual reality. Anyone who wants to disagree can provide alternative evidence.

whippet · 15-09-2014 3:45pm

cowzerp wrote: »

your property is considered out to the main pipe, and out to the center of the road also, you will be billed for it to be repaired if it's the pipe leading from the main pipe to your home.

This is factually incorrect - but there are 'organisations' on social media purporting to know what they are talking about while spreading false information.

The same legal cowboys are shouting about the 'no contract, no consent' rubbish which is a total myth.

But don't be embarrassed to admit that you have been duped by these wafflers, a couple of my friends who i'd classify as intelligent have been sharing these myths on social media too !!

Fred Swanson · 15-09-2014 3:51pm

This post has been deleted.

Robbo · 15-09-2014 3:52pm

I think this envelope covers all the bases. Top work to whoever produced it.

Credit where it's due

Graham · 15-09-2014 4:17pm

WOW

I'm beginning to suspect this is all corporate mischief making by Crayola.

Carawaystick · 15-09-2014 8:21pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

There are obviously a few issues floating around the end of this thread which could do with clarification.

"Leaks all around the shop!" If the leak is within the boundary of your property, it is the property owner’s responsibility – outside of that, it’s up to UÉ/IW and the Local Authority to repair at no cost to you. (Source: http://www.cer.ie/customer-care/water/faqs)

To the best of my knowledge this is the factual reality. Anyone who wants to disagree can provide alternative evidence.

Saying there is no cost to an individual is the same as saying welfare fraud or tax evasion has no cost to an individual.
UÉ get their income from customers.
If there's loads of leaks or worse structural damage from a leak, all the customers are going to pay for this

UÉ staff or management are very unlikely to take any hit for this

Timberrrrrrrr · 15-09-2014 8:30pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Saying there is no cost to an individual is the same as saying welfare fraud or tax evasion has no cost to an individual.
UÉ get their income from customers.
If there's loads of leaks or worse structural damage from a leak, all the customers are going to pay for this

UÉ staff or management are very unlikely to take any hit for this

Leaks will happen, that is the nature of water. Apparently leaks are being caused by cheap faulty meters and shoddy workmanship from untrained workers according to one poster. No evidence to back these claims up, but then this is the same guy who claims he owns the pipe leading from his house out to the mains in the middle of the road and it's his property so they will not be allowed to meter it :rolleyes:

Bepolite · 15-09-2014 8:33pm

cowzerp wrote: »

PS, I won't be detaching from the water supply as my money has and will continue to pay for it, just not for loads of people to be looked after in that quango.

I'm not sure of your objection then? This is how they are charging for water now and you're saying it's a contract - you either enter in to the contract and pay or don't enter into the contract and don't get service; what's the issue?

conorh91 · 15-09-2014 9:12pm

"The postman was not on his oath", serious lols when I read that.

Does anyone know what that even means?

seamus · 15-09-2014 9:42pm

cowzerp wrote: »

your property is considered out to the main pipe, and out to the center of the road also

This "centre of the road" nonsense has been going around for a long time, I recall someone saying it to me when I was a child. You do not own, nor have any domain or responsibility over anything which is not within the boundaries of your property.

You cannot control anything that Irish Water does either to the road or the pipes outside of your property.

Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

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