Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

Carawaystick · 02-10-2014 11:25am

Hogzy wrote: »

BECAUSE ITS EASIER FOR YOU IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont bother signing it if you don't want to. You're well within your rights to but its going to create hassle down the line.

Like what is the problem with filling out a bloody form. Some people just love to create hassle at every juncture in life.

If I sent you a form that you needed to fill in to state you were not a customer of Carawaysticks amazing diHydrogenMonoxide or I'd send you a bill in January, would you do it?
If every company could speculatively send random bills to people, there'd be outcry.

If I had no sewer or fresh water connection, I'd ignore IW, and if they gave hassle, I'd invoice them at the hourly rate they suggest for call outs ~180 per hour for the first hour, minimum one hour.

Going Forward · 02-10-2014 11:31am

Hogzy wrote: »

BECAUSE ITS EASIER FOR YOU IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont bother signing it if you don't want to. You're well within your rights to but its going to create hassle down the line.

Like what is the problem with filling out a bloody form. Some people just love to create hassle at every juncture in life.

Why give advice when it's clear you've never read the form?

There's no signature required.

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 11:33am

Going Forward wrote: »

Why give advice when it's clear you've never read the form?

There's no signature required.

Since you appear to have knowledge of the form, can you tell us what information is requested from non-customers?

Colm R · 02-10-2014 11:59am

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Since you appear to have knowledge of the form, can you tell us what information is requested from non-customers?

I am a non-customer. Anyway, I filled it online and it required much less information than customers. After I entered my PIN and Access Codes, it verified my name and address and asked how I got my water and handle my waste - So I said Well and Septic tank. And that was it.

Given all the hassle over PPS numbers, I was kind of disappointed that the website did not ask me for mine - simply because
a. I don't care that they have my pps number.
b. I would like them to cross check and make sure nobody else might inadverntly get my number and declare that I am living somewhere else.

So suckers, you can all enjoy paying your bills, I am going to drink my endless supply of free* water for the rest of my life.

Free means:
- about €250 to €300 per year in electrical costs to pump from 180 feet underground.
- €0.50 per day in electrical cost for aeration of my sewage before percolation.
- €7.50 per month in salt for treatment.
- €140 per year in servicing of treatment filters and all that stuff (going to try and figure out how to do this myself)
- about €500 every 10 years or so to replace the pump

oh - and it cost me €3700 to sink the well.

Oh how I would love to pay for public water.

Going Forward · 02-10-2014 12:21pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Since you appear to have knowledge of the form, can you tell us what information is requested from non-customers?

Eh, no.

The only reason I "appear" to have knowledge of the form, is because the form is in the public domain on IW's website, and also because there has been some speculation as to why no signature is actually required to "become a Customer of Irish Water" or not.

Would you like me to post a link to the form for anyone who can't be bothered looking for it?

Hogzy · 02-10-2014 12:37pm

Going Forward wrote: »

Would you like me to post a link to the form for anyone who can't be bothered looking for it?

Yes, that would be splendid.

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 12:56pm

Going Forward wrote: »

Eh, no.

The only reason I "appear" to have knowledge of the form, is because the form is in the public domain on IW's website, and also because there has been some speculation as to why no signature is actually required to "become a Customer of Irish Water" or not.

Would you like me to post a link to the form for anyone who can't be bothered looking for it?

Jesus, sensitive much? I actually looked for the form and only found the documentation which explains the form.

chasm · 02-10-2014 12:59pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Jesus, sensitive much? I actually looked for the form and only found the documentation which explains the form.

http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-customer-application-form-ENGLISH-SAMPLE.pdf

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 1:08pm

chasm wrote: »

http://www.water.ie/docs/Irish-Water-customer-application-form-ENGLISH-SAMPLE.pdf

So it's just your name and address, tick 2 boxes and acknowledge that you accept the T&Cs. Alternatively you pay over €400. Seems obvious to me which I'd choose.

chasm · 02-10-2014 1:29pm

Going Forward wrote: »

Eh, no.

The only reason I "appear" to have knowledge of the form, is because the form is in the public domain on IW's website, and also because there has been some speculation as to why no signature is actually required to "become a Customer of Irish Water" or not.

Would you like me to post a link to the form for anyone who can't be bothered looking for it?

I have read some of the speculation online too, but i don't get what the issue is with why IW do not ask for a signature on the form.
The Water Services (No2) Act 2013 defines a Customer as "“customer” means, in relation to the provision of water services, the occupier of the premises in respect of which the water services are provided."
So if by ticking certain sections on the form, you are classed as a customer would they need your signature when the Act defines you as one?

Rucking_Fetard · 02-10-2014 2:15pm

Hogzy wrote: »

BECAUSE ITS EASIER FOR YOU IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Makes it easy for them to have nice complete record when they want to start billing folk with their own wells come 2016 for using state minerals or some bull.

amen · 02-10-2014 2:22pm

Colm R wrote: »

I am a non-customer. Anyway, I filled it online and it required much less information than customers. After I entered my PIN and Access Codes, it verified my name and address and asked how I got my water and handle my waste - So I said Well and Septic tank. And that was it.

Given all the hassle over PPS numbers, I was kind of disappointed that the website did not ask me for mine - simply because
a. I don't care that they have my pps number.
b. I would like them to cross check and make sure nobody else might inadverntly get my number and declare that I am living somewhere else.

So suckers, you can all enjoy paying your bills, I am going to drink my endless supply of free* water for the rest of my life.

Free means:
- about €250 to €300 per year in electrical costs to pump from 180 feet underground.
- €0.50 per day in electrical cost for aeration of my sewage before percolation.
- €7.50 per month in salt for treatment.
- €140 per year in servicing of treatment filters and all that stuff (going to try and figure out how to do this myself)
- about €500 every 10 years or so to replace the pump

oh - and it cost me €3700 to sink the well.

Oh how I would love to pay for public water.

WOW. So since you have your own well I will assume you have a septic tank.

So taking a family of four the estimated cost for Irish water is €278 per year.

Taking the figures above your yearly cost is €487.50 and I haven't include the capital cost of the well.

Hogzy · 02-10-2014 2:27pm

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Makes it easy for them to have nice complete record when they want to start billing folk with their own wells come 2016 for using state minerals or some bull.

Youre going to get billed anyway if you dont sign the form. Your bordering on conspiracy theories now tbh.

Quin_Dub · 02-10-2014 2:32pm

amen wrote: »

WOW. So since you have your own well I will assume you have a septic tank.

So taking a family of four the estimated cost for Irish water is €278 per year.

Taking the figures above your yearly cost is €487.50 and I haven't include the capital cost of the well.

I'm on Public water but have my own Sewage system..

So I'll be paying the half charge to IW of €140 as well as

Like Colm R above- ~€150 p/a (~.50c /day) on Electricity costs for running the Biocycle unit.

Then I also have a cost of ~€200 per year to empty/service the Biocycle unit (although to be fair here I've moved to more like once every 18 months on this bit - Though that might come back to bite me sometime in the future)

So for me my "Water" Charges will be €450 to €500 a year...

So, the current charge for those fully on the public system is a bargain in my view..

gyppo · 02-10-2014 2:41pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So it's just your name and address, tick 2 boxes and acknowledge that you accept the T&Cs. Alternatively you pay over €400. Seems obvious to me which I'd choose.

But the point i'm making seems to be evading you.
Why should a non-customer be forced to acknowledge IW's request for information
or
be threatened with a €400 bill.

Anyhow, the data for water services and waste treatment services are already collected if i recall correctly - 2011 census.

Grolschevik · 02-10-2014 2:49pm

gyppo wrote: »

But the point i'm making seems to be evading you.
Why should a non-customer be forced to acknowledge IW's request for information
or
be threatened with a €400 bill.

Anyhow, the data for water services and waste treatment services are already collected if i recall correctly - 2011 census.

They don't know if you're a non-customer or not. They won't be cross-referencing three-year-old census data. This is just for convenience. If you don't tell them otherwise, they'll assume you are.

Same way An Post generally assume you've got a TV unless you periodically notify them that you don't.

gyppo · 02-10-2014 2:58pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

They don't know if you're a non-customer or not. They won't be cross-referencing three-year-old census data. This is just for convenience. If you don't tell them otherwise, they'll assume you are.

Same way An Post generally assume you've got a TV unless you periodically notify them that you don't.

Fair enough, I see your point.
They know enough to get my name and address correct though......

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 3:13pm

gyppo wrote: »

Fair enough, I see your point.
They know enough to get my name and address correct though......

You'd be moaning if they were poking around your house to check to see if you're connected too I presume. Think of the cost of that as well (another thing to complain about) - would you also be on here asking why they don't just get people to volunteer the info?

You just cannot win - same thing happened with the self-assessment of the LPT.

coylemj · 02-10-2014 3:34pm

gyppo wrote: »

Anyhow, the data for water services and waste treatment services are already collected if i recall correctly - 2011 census.

Census data is not available to any state agency except the Central Statistics Office, no matter what you hear down in the pub or from conspiracy theorists.

Not surprised it came up in a discussion about IW, as if they needed yet another excuse not to fill out the forms.

Colm R · 02-10-2014 3:57pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'm on Public water but have my own Sewage system..

So I'll be paying the half charge to IW of €140 as well as

Like Colm R above- ~€150 p/a (~.50c /day) on Electricity costs for running the Biocycle unit.

Then I also have a cost of ~€200 per year to empty/service the Biocycle unit (although to be fair here I've moved to more like once every 18 months on this bit - Though that might come back to bite me sometime in the future)

So for me my "Water" Charges will be €450 to €500 a year...

So, the current charge for those fully on the public system is a bargain in my view..

I wouldn't say its a bargain for public water but on the basis of economies of scale, it should be cheaper to supply water to an urban area versus the cost of running my system to supply just me. And it is cheaper.

Quin_Dub · 02-10-2014 4:44pm

Colm R wrote: »

I wouldn't say its a bargain for public water but on the basis of economies of scale, it should be cheaper to supply water to an urban area versus the cost of running my system to supply just me. And it is cheaper.

I guess I mean bargain for the end consumer as you are right , economies of scale should mean that the actual costs are not that far apart...

FreudianSlippers · 02-10-2014 4:49pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/court-places-injunctions-on-water-meter-protestors--one-could-face-jail-643953.html

Injunctions back on 8 by consent and 9th may be up for attachment and committal

dloob · 02-10-2014 9:34pm

I'm thinking of heading the pub pulling myself a pint and telling the bar man we've no contract. :pac:

Grolschevik · 02-10-2014 9:35pm

More overt Freemanism in the Irish Water Facebook campaign. Wasn't sure which of the threads it belongs in!

Losty Dublin · 02-10-2014 10:27pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

More overt Freemanism in the Irish Water Facebook campaign. Wasn't sure which of the threads it belongs in!

The Commerical Court indeed :pac:

Losty Dublin · 02-10-2014 11:21pm

These two leaflets came in the door today. Time to fight fire with fire.

Fred Swanson · 02-10-2014 11:29pm

This post has been deleted.

Bepolite · 03-10-2014 12:24am

gyppo wrote: »

Challenge what? My intention is to ignore the declaration request

That course of action is dealt with below

gyppo wrote: »

Why would they take a non-customer, who has no contract with them, and who does not owe them anything to court?

Because they may have a statutory contract with you; I'm not sure, you might very well win, you might not. Please direct me to a citation in a few years.

gyppo wrote: »

But why should I? This is still my original question - is there anything in law that means I am obligated to sign this declaration?

Legally, dunno - as I say it's got the potential to be interesting, or not as the case may be. I was merely suggesting you move the process along by engaging Mapels, a good SC and may be a JC or two. Perhaps by that stage I might be devilling - you'll get me for free. I'm cheap (and fun) as they say.

Losty Dublin · 03-10-2014 9:54am

I was thinking that these guys have been quiet as of late...

https://www.facebook.com/events/1477309559191544/

Graham · 03-10-2014 11:09am

the watchman wrote: »

For those who are reluctant to fill in the Irish Water forms for whatever reason but feel they have to out of fear of not receiving allowances or being cut off perhaps you might consider not using the form but instead send in the information they require by letter stating that you feel that you are being coerced into doing so and are doing so under protest and under duress. You may even go on to state your terms and conditions. Just a thought!

Didn't you also post this stunning bit of pointlessness in another thread recently?

I understand if you stomp your feet and scream while you put your completed form in the letter box the net effect is the same.

Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

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