HKC APP

Evolution1

altor wrote: »

All the help will still be here but if you want the IP you must use a registered installer to do same. Security systems are for professional installers.
There is a relay set up from the control panel. It can be tested without the need for an PSA installer to be present.

Kinda locking people into a service .. Half the alarms out there aren't monitored and aren't installed to standards .. Why pay for an app/labour/account when they're plenty of other brands offering free apps with more features. People who want monitoring will have to pay for it and then pay extra for the privilege of an app that even Phonewatch don't charge for.. I can't see many installers going for this.

fred funk }{

Cant see many paying for it annually if given the option between it and the likes if the risco system.

In saying that, it might come down to how much it costs.

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

Kinda locking people into a service .. Half the alarms out there aren't monitored and aren't installed to standards .. Why pay for an app/labour/account when they're plenty of other brands offering free apps with more features. People who want monitoring will have to pay for it and then pay extra for the privilege of an app that even Phonewatch don't charge for.. I can't see many installers going for this.

If you don't want IP you don't have to have it connected.
There are other options available to have a HKC system monitored through a monitoring station or to your own phone. Same with the GSM if you want remote access for arming/disarm, self monitoring, set up lights, heat or gate control.

Since you have said about P.W.
If you give up the monitoring using the PIR cams, what happens with them. Does your app still work?

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Cant see many paying for it annually if given the option between it and the likes if the risco system.

In saying that, it might come down to how much it costs.

I would agree. Cost will always be the deciding factor.

Evolution1

altor wrote: »

If you don't want IP you don't have to have it connected.
There are other options available to have a HKC system monitored through a monitoring station or to your own phone. Same with the GSM if you want remote access for arming/disarm, self monitoring, set up lights, heat or gate control.

Since you have said about P.W.
If you give up the monitoring using the PIR cams, what happens with them. Does your app still work?

They become normal PIRs just like Visonics.. not sure about the app. Depends if the Domonial acts like a server or if it's going through seperate servers. Only Risco, YALE , Response and GSD are offering a back up solution
That's just it.. I don't want a system that ties me to some form of contract if I decide to move with the times. GSD could have a field day using this as a selling point for themselves.
I thought HKC were allowing connection to the app over GPRS through the GSM-Q as well as the LAN card? If the power goes how does the LAN card contact HKCs servers ?

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

They become normal PIRs just like Visonics.. not sure about the app. Depends if the Domonial acts like a server or if it's going through seperate servers. Only Risco, YALE , Response and GSD are offering a back up solution
That's just it.. I don't want a system that ties me to some form of contract if I decide to move with the times. GSD could have a field day using this as a selling point for themselves.
I thought HKC were allowing connection to the app over GPRS through the GSM-Q as well as the LAN card? If the power goes how does the LAN card contact HKCs servers ?

Its not about being tied into a contract. You have a choice if you want to have this connected to your security system that is installed professionally by a registered installer.

That will be possible if you have the data switched on on the sim but good point.
Does GSD or RISCO have the feature to switch to data if the internet is down?
What back up do these other system have in place?
Does GSD not have a payment option after so many months?

Evolution1

altor wrote: »

Its not about being tied into a contract. You have a choice if you want to have this connected to your security system that is installed professionally by a registered installer.

That will be possible if you have the data switched on on the sim but good point.
Does GSD or RISCO have the feature to switch to data if the internet is down?
What back up do these other system have in place?
Does GSD not have a payment option after so many months?

The agility switches to GPRS if the LAN goes down.
Not 100% sure about GSD but from what they've told me it's all free.
Both brands support PSTN, GSM GPRS & IP
Risco can poll to the cloud server so if the panel fails the cloud will alert you.
I know with risco I can have texts come over PSTN and use the GSM for the likes of 083 numbers and control via an app through GPRS. I can even send text commands to the panel using only a mobile with the panel connected to PSTN .With HKC you can only use one comm mode at a time and have to use the GSM for text commands . If you're using a digi & gsm with HKC then all alarm events will be sent through the digi and the gsm will only take over if the digi fails. This excludes text commands.

KoolKid

The Risco systems give you a free app, free push notifications and free email notifications. This is all through a cloud service without any contract . all without the need to even need a digi at all. I don't fall for this line a service has to be maintained.
What is HKC app offering over these systems that makes it worthwhile?

markad1

I heard it's a different GSM unit with a monthly subscription.

KoolKid

If it's IP why would you like need a GSM?

markad1

Don't know if it all done via the GSM or if the GSM is a backup to IP.

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

The agility switches to GPRS if the LAN goes down.
Not 100% sure about GSD but from what they've told me it's all free.
Both brands support PSTN, GSM GPRS & IP
Risco can poll to the cloud server so if the panel fails the cloud will alert you.
I know with risco I can have texts come over PSTN and use the GSM for the likes of 083 numbers and control via an app through GPRS. I can even send text commands to the panel using only a mobile with the panel connected to PSTN .With HKC you can only use one comm mode at a time and have to use the GSM for text commands . If you're using a digi & gsm with HKC then all alarm events will be sent through the digi and the gsm will only take over if the digi fails. This excludes text commands.

Here is the GSD plans from there website. No pricing on the website but from what I have be told there will be a fee involved for push notifications.

HKC App will also send a comm fail if for some reason the panel stops communicating with securecom.

I cant see the point in having digi, gsm and ip sending the exact same message. Multiple messages for the same event. If one fails then the others are there as a back up.

If you want you can have a push notification going to one phone, a text going to another phone, and a voice message to another if thats the way you set it up on the system.

altor

markad1 wrote: »

Don't know if it all done via the GSM or if the GSM is a backup to IP.

The GSM is what I would be recommending as a back up along with the lan card. Power fail and your internet goes down. GSM connects to Securecom using a world sim so you're still connected to the panel through the App. Using the GSM you will also still have voice and text along with data to Securecom.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

The Risco systems give you a free app, free push notifications and free email notifications. This is all through a cloud service without any contract . all without the need to even need a digi at all. I don't fall for this line a service has to be maintained.
What is HKC app offering over these systems that makes it worthwhile?

So all you're going to rely on is the IP, no digi or GSM back up

KoolKid wrote: »

If it's IP why would you like need a GSM?

What happens if there is an issue with the modem

KoolKid

I would consider IP more reliable. If we are talking about free push notifications and free email notifications it's self monitoring anyway. Multiple paths for that would not be the norm.
But, if someone feels the need to have their phone hopping with texts, voice call, email notifications and push notifications when their alarm goes off so be it. It's possible with many of the other systems with free apps.

altor

I feel the same and I would recommend multiple paths if they are available.

If you use the GSM off the Risco to communicate with the cloud is there a free sim they provide?

KoolKid

I don't know I have never used it.
I see GSM as a step backwards as an IP connection. I prefer to think of the Risco as eliminating the need for a dialler altogether as the IP card does remote control, push notifications,email notifications , images & configuration and browser access all via your existing broadband connection. Why pay for sim charges an app and extra equipment.
On a side note I hear CS Duel com are looking at the ability to use the existing data connection to facilitate remote connection into Siemens Panels.
That will be sweet.

altor

Another form of monitoring which they can charge for. I suppose it is needed if you have the Seimens system installed with no push notifications. That is always going to the let down with Seimens in my opinion.

HKCs GSM can do this, IP to monitoring station, polls, Jam detect.
Have to say the amount of options available with the GSM and Lan card are worth the extra money. Good with the quantum too as you can have 3 types of monitoring using the built in voice and text dialer.

Re the Risco:
I am just thinking of people who might decide to use the GPRS as a back up as your know yourself power cuts, UPC (always seem to be doing something) any number of reasons can see no IP connection, not just aiming this at UPC. A email from the server that you have no connection with one form of monitoring is not going to tell you much.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Another form of monitoring which they can charge for. I suppose it is needed if you have the Seimens system installed with no push notifications.

It will be included in the existing cost of central station monitoring,

altor wrote: »

That is always going to the let down with Seimens in my opinion.

Might not be for much longer...;)

altor wrote: »

Re the Risco:
I am just thinking of people who might decide to use the GPRS as a back up as your know yourself power cuts, UPC (always seem to be doing something) any number of reasons can see no IP connection, not just aiming this at UPC. A email from the server that you have no connection with one form of monitoring is not going to tell you much.

I really don't see it as a major issue. Having had the use of an App since it came out & the use of IP remote control before that with Europlex I have to say I have never missed an activation or never not been able to connect to the panel because my router was down or the network was down.
If you do have separate monitoring paths Siemens is also able to report an IP network failure.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

It will be included in the existing cost of central station monitoring,

Sure if you have an ip connection why the need for central station monitoring

KoolKid wrote: »

Might not be for much longer...;)

If its not out

KoolKid wrote: »

I really don't see it as a major issue. Having had the use of an App since it came out & the use of IP remote control before that with Europlex I have to say I have never missed an activation or never not been able to connect to the panel because my router was down or the network was down.
If you do have separate monitoring paths Siemens is also able to report an IP network failure.

Same with the power cuts, seems you are the only one not affected by them

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

If its not out

I agree,but they willl have to move with the times. But there's always Risco if the need arises. Its the nicest app I've seen yet.

altor wrote: »

Sure if you have an ip connection why the need for central station monitoring

Thats a strange response from someone in the industry.
For Garda response of course.

altor wrote: »

Same with the power cuts, seems you are the only one not affected by them

Must be good & lucky I guess.:D

kub

5 pages so far about a product none of us has been trained in and asked the manufacturer about.

I can only imagine what will be accumulated after we have been trained on it.

stuartkee

i have had the HKC app working over GPRS for 3 days at the ideal homes in april worked great not a bother at all the big advantage I can see is that its many things in one as in if you want to download the app and use it that way you can also it will be a normal text gsm command and control and also they are allowing you to use it to connect to monitoring stations so no need to get sims from monitoring stations also you can text it as many times as you like and there is a world sim in it so hand for roaming different networks all with the sim included in the price . As Altor said its all about giving options to people I can see me using half gsm other half gprs but its the customers choice plus its an option only reg installers can offer and that's a good thing id say .

KoolKid

So is this just a GSM with all these options?
Or is there a Lan card as well?

altor

The GSM can do text, voice and GPRS. Lan card is separate.
They are individual modules which can be plugged onto the board.

KoolKid

So is it possible to get the Lan card only and set up the app to give you push notifications and email alerts without paying any monthly or annual charge?

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

So is it possible to get the Lan card only and set up the app to give you push notifications and email alerts without paying any monthly or annual charge?

I think so yes.

KoolKid

Well if that's possible that good. Why would you then want to use GSM with charges?
I don't see many self monitored customers looking for multiple comms paths.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

So is it possible to get the Lan card only and set up the app to give you push notifications and email alerts without paying any monthly or annual charge?

I would say no as once you want the system connected to Securecom I am sure there will be some charge. Could be wrong but will find out more at the open day.

KoolKid

Even if you are only connecting via IP there will still be a subscription??:eek:
There is no line rental or SIM rental & you are paying for your broadband connection already.
That can't be right.