Guinness Pro12 2014/2015 Season thread

vienne86

slingerz wrote: »

Any ideas when the fixture dates/times will be firmed up for these games? also the fixture dates/times for the European Cup?

Re the Guinness Pro 12, I think they said the fixture dates/times would follow shortly from the last announcement. No idea about the European ones, but I would have thought they should be organised shortly too - can't remember when the Heineken fixture details were announced last year.

ssaye2

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/15302.php#.U8ZHi0Cf7Y8

Ospreys injury update

former legend

ssaye2 wrote: »

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/15302.php#.U8ZHi0Cf7Y8

Ospreys injury update

Would love to see Eli Walker getting a decent run of game time this season, he's potentially brilliant but just can't stay fit.

Sounds like Tom Smith's career is in serious trouble.

CatFromHue

They've scheduled a LV Cup game for the same weekend as a Pro12 game which is the week before Wales play their first AI!!!

LOL

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3828_9394355,00.html

umop.episdn

Dates agreed back in April......I forsee problems

Leverage

Zzippy

umop.episdn wrote: »

Dates agreed back in April......I forsee problems

Solution - change the schedule and fix 2 Welsh derbies for the pro12 games for that weekend, that way all the other teams have games and the regions can organise their derby game for some other time. Let them worry about fixture congestion without other teams being affected.

thelad95

How is the LV cup still going? It used to be fairly prestigous back in the mid 2000's but now it's just a mickey-mouse competition for squad players. There's simply no space in the calendar for it anymore.

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

How is the LV cup still going? It used to be fairly prestigous back in the mid 2000's but now it's just a mickey-mouse competition for squad players. There's simply no space in the calendar for it anymore.

Should amalgamate with the B&I cup imo.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Should amalgamate with the B&I cup imo.

England v Wales keeps costs down I imagine. It would be good though, I wouldn't mind going to a Munster A Leicester A match.

The Lost Sheep

CatFromHue wrote: »

They've scheduled a LV Cup game for the same weekend as a Pro12 game which is the week before Wales play their first AI!!!

LOL

http://www.planetrugby.com/storyhtml

LV is completely second string competition now though isn't it?

thelad95 wrote: »

How is the LV cup still going? It used to be fairly prestigous back in the mid 2000's but now it's just a mickey-mouse competition for squad players. There's simply no space in the calendar for it anymore.

Gives first team games to outside squad players. Can test players against pro sides before throwing them into premiership and is step up from A premiership. Some of the French teams do it with Amlin games and away league games

Deleted User wrote: »

Should amalgamate with the B&I cup imo.

Wouldn't be bad idea. Only the irish provinces have the same sides in pro12 level as B&I Cup. In Scotland its the old clubs like Melrose, Wales its the premiership clubs.

former legend

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

LV is completely second string competition now though isn't it?.

Yes but the week before an international, a lot of the first string would be rested so the second string would be needed for the Pro12.

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

Solution - change the schedule and fix 2 Welsh derbies for the pro12 games for that weekend, that way all the other teams have games and the regions can organise their derby game for some other time. Let them worry about fixture congestion without other teams being affected.

Actually, scrap that idea. Ospreys v Connacht that weekend, hope Mark McCafferty makes them play LV Cup too, he should insist on a stong team as well...

CatFromHue

Wales play 4 AI games so their regions will be without their internationals then too so this is a possibility of two games in a row where the Welsh teams will be understrength.

I'd imagine with qualification for Europe based on Pro12 position the LV Cup will be getting the U20's team.

Winters

Would I be correct in saying the regions played Pro12 on the corresponding dates last season so it must be the LV dates that have changed from last season?

Edit. Just checked to make sure I was right, Pro12 Round 7 fixtures haven't changed, it's the LV kicking off a week earlier this season. The Pro12 organisers are right to say the fixtures won't be changed. Ball is in RRW/WRU's court.

CatFromHue

Yeah the LV Cup has been moved back out of the International Window this season, well one of the games has been.

I'm trying to figure out the agenda's here.

The RFU are saying that these fixtures were agreed in April.

I presume the Regions, definitely the WRU had anyway, input into the fixtures for the Pro12.

The Welsh parties so have known about this for a good while but why did they not try and stop it?

Winters

Perhaps being 4 of 12 teams and the only teams affected they were in the minority to the idea of changing last years fixtures for everyone?

The change in the LV dates must be as a result of the Aviva Premiership fixtures no?

thelad95

Jesus Christ on a hockey stick!!! When you see things like this happen its clear that rugby has only been professional for 20 odd years.

Teferi

I would be embarrassed to be a Welsh rugby fan. Their various organisations are an absolute shambles. It just looks so amateur.

molloyjh

Teferi wrote: »

I would be embarrassed to be a Welsh rugby fan. Their various organisations are an absolute shambles. It just looks so amateur.

Yeah it really reflects badly on them all, on top of the ongoing row. God help the Welsh rugby public right now. Can you imagine how we'd feel if the same were happening here!?

.ak

It's only really hurting the lv cup though. Can't see it surviving long after this. The welsh teams will put out their u20 or academy teams.

Larbre34

.ak wrote: »

It's only really hurting the lv cup though. Can't see it surviving long after this. The welsh teams will put out their u20 or academy teams.

That depends on whether the Welsh regions management give greater priority to their relationship with PRL and to thumb their noses at WRU send the first teams to the LV games, or flat refuse to fulfill Pro12 fixtures that day. Its just another layer of cr@p in this destructive row.

Personally I think the WRU should cut them loose at this stage, end their funding and affiliate status, start again with 4 centrally contracted franchises on the IRFU model.

bilston

Teferi wrote: »

I would be embarrassed to be a Welsh rugby fan. Their various organisations are an absolute shambles. It just looks so amateur.

I'm sure somehow it's our fault.

thelad95

I agree that RRW should be scrapped and replaced by central contracts. A seperate organisation for clubs works in a country like England where there are multiple professional clubs across a number of divisions but with only 4 small regional clubs, is it necessary to have a second organisation, especially one with a completely seperate agenda?

Rigor Mortis

Larbre34 wrote: »

That depends on whether the Welsh regions management give greater priority to their relationship with PRL and to thumb their noses at WRU send the first teams to the LV games, or flat refuse to fulfill Pro12 fixtures that day. Its just another layer of cr@p in this destructive row.

Not so easy to do now that pro 12 rankings decide euro qualification. None of the welsh teams can afford to risk losing points in the league.

phog

Zebre squad announced

thelad95

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Not so easy to do now that pro 12 rankings decide euro qualification. None of the welsh teams can afford to risk losing points in the league.

The Welsh and specifically the RRW seem to have some sort of fetish for competition with English clubs which mey supercede participating in a European competition they have no chance of winning. Didn't something like this happen in the early inception of the Celtic League and the Welsh clubs were expelled from the league until they copped on?

The Lost Sheep

thelad95 wrote: »

The Welsh and specifically the RRW seem to have some sort of fetish for competition with English clubs which mey supercede participating in a European competition they have no chance of winning. Didn't something like this happen in the early inception of the Celtic League and the Welsh clubs were expelled from the league until they copped on?

Welsh see competition with English clubs as bringing in crowds that they wont get from the pro12. Gloucester, Bristol, Bath, Leicester all very close to South Wales and bring in big crowds to games. That's main reason they are so keen to get in with English

CatFromHue

Just looking at least season alone I don't know how true it is for the LV Cup as the Welsh home games against the English were marginally down on their home games in the Pro12.

jacothelad

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Welsh see competition with English clubs as bringing in crowds that they wont get from the pro12. Gloucester, Bristol, Bath, Leicester all very close to South Wales and bring in big crowds to games. That's main reason they are so keen to get in with English

Has someone moved Leicester? I reckon it's a good 150 miles between there and Cardiff.

The Lost Sheep

jacothelad wrote: »

Has someone moved Leicester? I reckon it's a good 150 miles between there and Cardiff.

Oops. Don't know why I included Leicester....

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

Has someone moved Leicester? I reckon it's a good 150 miles between there and Cardiff.

Its still a lot easier for an away day than getting to Ireland, Scotland or Italy. Of course the problem for them is that attendance's at their hone games are poor as well. The only region that seems to be doing well financially and on the crowd front (compared to the size of their ground) is the Dragons.

Podge_irl

Might have something to do with the Dragons never really getting involved in the overpriced and underskilled foreign players route.

bilston

Podge_irl wrote: »

Might have something to do with the Dragons never really getting involved in the overpriced and underskilled foreign players route.

Yep, maybe there is a lesson in that for the Ospreys and Cardiff. To be fair the Scarlets do bring through some decent youngsters.

Heroditas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Welsh see competition with English clubs as bringing in crowds that they wont get from the pro12. Gloucester, Bristol, Bath, Leicester all very close to South Wales and bring in big crowds to games. That's main reason they are so keen to get in with English

Yep exactly. However, the crowd figures for the LV Cup and even the HEC games against English clubs haven't exactly backed up that theory in previous years.
The Welsh club/region hierarchy claim the fans want it but crowd numbers say the exact opposite.

CatFromHue

Heroditas wrote: »

Yep exactly. However, the crowd figures for the LV Cup and even the HEC games against English clubs haven't exactly backed up that theory in previous years.
The Welsh club/region hierarchy claim the fans want it but crowd numbers say the exact opposite.

I think at this stage it's safe to say that the Welsh don't know what they want!

Heroditas

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think at this stage it's safe to say that the Welsh don't know what they want!

Premiership football by the looks of it!

CatFromHue

Heroditas wrote: »

Premiership football by the looks of it!

Now Cardiff have been relegated I wonder if that'll have any effect on the rugby team.

They do have the guts of a competitive team next season.

thelad95

Heroditas wrote: »

Premiership football rugby by the looks of it!

.

Heroditas

thelad95 wrote: »

.

As I already stated, despite the bigwigs in Welsh rugby claiming that the fans want closer involvement with the English teams, crowd numbers for HEC matches between English and Welsh clubs and the LV= games don't really back up that theory.

stpaddy99

thelad95 wrote: »

How is the LV cup still going? It used to be fairly prestigous back in the mid 2000's but now it's just a mickey-mouse competition for squad players. There's simply no space in the calendar for it anymore.

the lv can work as a development tool, but 2nd string sides will never get crowds or make money

a british and irish league is the best way forward, crowds would be much bigger, sponsors and tv money would be way bigger too

icdg

One of the problems with the LV is it's utterly daft format, I've never seen the likes of it.

But back to the Pro12, and the TV rights deal for Wales is now confirmed, BBC Wales to show matches on Fridays and S4C on Sundays. The shape of coverage this season is going to be quite different to previous years with Saturday and Sunday afternoon games becoming the norm instead of the exception.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal

The Lost Sheep

icdg wrote: »

One of the problems with the LV is it's utterly daft format, I've never seen the likes of it.

But back to the Pro12, and the TV rights deal for Wales is now confirmed, BBC Wales to show matches on Fridays and S4C on Sundays. The shape of coverage this season is going to be quite different to previous years with Saturday and Sunday afternoon games becoming the norm instead of the exception.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal

Whats daft about the format?
Competition aims to avoid repeating European fixtures where possible and the format used gives sides more games. They get 4 games rather than 3 by playing all 4 sides in another pool than 3 games by playing the remaining sides in their pool. The top team then qualifies for semi's

Sunday Afternoon games are crap. Don't mind other most other times. Would prefer mainly evening kick-offs as am at club games most Saturday/Sunday mornings/afternoons and then still get to see pro games

Cookiemunster

icdg wrote: »

One of the problems with the LV is it's utterly daft format, I've never seen the likes of it.

But back to the Pro12, and the TV rights deal for Wales is now confirmed, BBC Wales to show matches on Fridays and S4C on Sundays. The shape of coverage this season is going to be quite different to previous years with Saturday and Sunday afternoon games becoming the norm instead of the exception.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal

Hasn't Friday night on Scrum V and Sunday afternoon on S4C been pretty standard in Wales for a few years now?

bilston

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Whats daft about the format?
Competition aims to avoid repeating European fixtures where possible and the format used gives sides more games. They get 4 games rather than 3 by playing all 4 sides in another pool than 3 games by playing the remaining sides in their pool. The top team then qualifies for semi's

Sunday Afternoon games are crap. Don't mind other most other times. Would prefer mainly evening kick-offs as am at club games most Saturday/Sunday mornings/afternoons and then still get to see pro games

Good news, with any luck the broadcasters might get their backsides into gear and start telling us when these games are going to be played.

Do sky have first pick each week?

I'm guessing Leinster v Glasgow will be first to get the Sky treatment.

Digifriendly

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Hasn't Friday night on Scrum V and Sunday afternoon on S4C been pretty standard in Wales for a few years now?

S4C has mainly done tea time Saturday matches with the odd Sunday afternoon match shown. Sky are to show Pro 12 Saturday afternoon games which means a clash with club matches in Ireland/Scotland/Wales. This will diminish crowds at these matches and I guess the AIL clubs are none too pleased.

bilston

Digifriendly wrote: »

S4C has mainly done tea time Saturday matches with the odd Sunday afternoon match shown. Sky are to show Pro 12 Saturday afternoon games which means a clash with club matches in Ireland/Scotland/Wales. This will diminish crowds at these matches and I guess the AIL clubs are none too pleased.

There have been plenty of Saturday afternoon games in Europe over the years. I don't think it will diminish crowds too much and at most you're talking about two regular home games anyway.

icdg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Whats daft about the format?
Competition aims to avoid repeating European fixtures where possible and the format used gives sides more games. They get 4 games rather than 3 by playing all 4 sides in another pool than 3 games by playing the remaining sides in their pool. The top team then qualifies for semi's

It means no head-to-head against teams in your group, not to mention the possibility that every team in the group can end up with a 100% win record, something that's not possible in most other competitions. To illustrate how daft the format is, every TV broadcast of the competition I have ever seen has had to go to pains to explain how the format works. I appreciate that its devolved into a development competition that few take seriously at this stage, but still.

Digifriendly wrote: »

S4C has mainly done tea time Saturday matches with the odd Sunday afternoon match shown. Sky are to show Pro 12 Saturday afternoon games which means a clash with club matches in Ireland/Scotland/Wales. This will diminish crowds at these matches and I guess the AIL clubs are none too pleased.

Sky's main concern is to show some live sport during the football blackout period (that applies in England, Scotland, and NI). Its the same reason Premiership Rugby Saturday TV fixtures kick off at 3:15pm. They're not particularly concerned with the AIL/Welsh Premiership/Scottish Premiership.

bilston wrote: »

Do sky have first pick each week?

Yes, though subject to the caveat in the second half of the season that they cannot pick the reverse fixture of any fixture they have covered in the first half.

No official announcements yet about Scottish or Irish coverage, though we know RTÉ are gone and TG4 seem to confirm here (http://www.tg4.ie/en/sales/whats-new.html) that they have indeed secured rights for next season. With RTÉ out I'd hope that TG4 now can cover any game involving an Irish team that Sky isn't covering although obviously that remains to be seen. At the very least, with two games being televised regionally in Wales they should have two picks.

The Lost Sheep

icdg wrote: »

It means no head-to-head against teams in your group, not to mention the possibility that every team in the group can end up with a 100% win record, something that's not possible in most other competitions. To illustrate how daft the format is, every TV broadcast of the competition I have ever seen has had to go to pains to explain how the format works. I appreciate that its devolved into a development competition that few take seriously at this stage, but still.

But all the teams have to play the same opposition and the criteria for qualifying to next stage is the same for everyone. Its a development competition whereby game-time for extended squad is most important. Its played when other much bigger rugby events are played so isn't going to be pulling in crowds to any real extent. What would you want done about it?

Digifriendly

bilston wrote: »

There have been plenty of Saturday afternoon games in Europe over the years. I don't think it will diminish crowds too much and at most you're talking about two regular home games anyway.

European games were played on non AIL weekends in the past. It was British /Irish Cup games which were played on these weekends.