Contesting a Speeding Ticket

Spriggan457

Basically I need some advice. I'm just in a bit of a pickle at the minute. I'm a young male driver, about 24 years old. I recently got a speeding ticket saying I was going 61Km/h in a 50Km/h zone in a public place near the R445, DUBLIN ROAD, KILDARE, KILDARE at 11:24. I would be completely okay with paying this but for a few reasons I'm not sure I'm all that guilty. Naturally it's my first offense and I believe it to be unfair. I'm only a learner driver and only been on the roads for 6 months and I'm a very careful driver, especially in preparation for my full-license coming up.

But on the date in question (25/05/2014) it was a Sunday, I remember the day because I was on my way from Monsterevin to Meath to help my brother in law. It was the day of the Rás/Race for cyclists (which I didn't know about until being caught up in it). There was multiple diversions by Gardaí on the roads and cyclists were everywhere all through Newbridge, so I honestly didn't really know the roads the Gardaí were forcing me onto and chances were if I was speeding at 10 over the limit it was more than likely I was overtaking a cyclist considering I was trapped behind the head of the race coming through Meath for over an hour too worried in case I hit one of them.

I realize that speeding is speeding, that it is wrong, and that I should have been more aware. But considering the sheer volume of cyclists I was more focused on not hitting any of them and trying to figure out where I was to notice what was - more than likely - a very quick change in speed limit since the last sign I passed which was for 60Km/h.

I'm still okay with paying the 80 euro, cos I did commit the offense regardless. But could I contest the penalty points? I can't see why I should be penalized with those when it was an honest mistake and I was put into a situation that was out of my control. I just don't feel it's fair when chances are when the 'snapped' me I was overtaking a cyclist on a road I didn't know and didn't have to be on if I had been allowed go the way I always go/on the roads that I know.

So, I'm not sure what to do? Should I just bite the bullet even though it could be seen unfair and have my insurance go up as well. Or if I want to contest it in any way will I end up paying a bigger fine regardless?

Just not quite sure how I can resolve this. Could it be resolved outside of court?

Any advice would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance.

?Cee?view

By "learner driver", do you mean you have a learner permit rather than a driving licence?

Spriggan457

I have a provisional license and L plates etc. Also, I re-read the ticket and it says 'driving Exceeding Special Speed Limit 50km/h. Would that help me that it was a special/temporary speed limit?

?Cee?view

Spriggan457 wrote: »

I have a provisional license and L plates etc. Also, I re-read the ticket and it says 'driving Exceeding Special Speed Limit 50km/h. Would that help me that it was a special/temporary speed limit?

Were you accompanied by a licensed driver? If you push this you could end up with a lot more trouble than 2 points.

Losty Dublin

What exactly is your rationale for getting a fine but not getting penalty points?

Spriggan457 wrote: »

Hey there, this is my first thread. So I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.

Basically I need some advice. I'm just in a bit of a pickle at the minute. I'm a young male driver, about 24 years old. I recently got a speeding ticket saying I was going 61Km/h in a 50Km/h zone in a public place near the R445, DUBLIN ROAD, KILDARE, KILDARE at 11:24. I would be completely okay with paying this but for a few reasons I'm not sure I'm all that guilty. Naturally it's my first offense and I believe it to be unfair. I'm only a learner driver and only been on the roads for 6 months and I'm a very careful driver, especially in preparation for my full-license coming up.

But on the date in question (25/05/2014) it was a Sunday, I remember the day because I was on my way from Monsterevin to Meath to help my brother in law. It was the day of the Rás/Race for cyclists (which I didn't know about until being caught up in it). There was multiple diversions by Gardaí on the roads and cyclists were everywhere all through Newbridge, so I honestly didn't really know the roads the Gardaí were forcing me onto and chances were if I was speeding at 10 over the limit it was more than likely I was overtaking a cyclist considering I was trapped behind the head of the race coming through Meath for over an hour too worried in case I hit one of them.

I realize that speeding is speeding, that it is wrong, and that I should have been more aware. But considering the sheer volume of cyclists I was more focused on not hitting any of them and trying to figure out where I was to notice what was - more than likely - a very quick change in speed limit since the last sign I passed which was for 60Km/h.

I'm still okay with paying the 80 euro, cos I did commit the offense regardless. But could I contest the penalty points? I can't see why I should be penalized with those when it was an honest mistake and I was put into a situation that was out of my control. I just don't feel it's fair when chances are when the 'snapped' me I was overtaking a cyclist on a road I didn't know and didn't have to be on if I had been allowed go the way I always go/on the roads that I know.

So, I'm not sure what to do? Should I just bite the bullet even though it could be seen unfair and have my insurance go up as well. Or if I want to contest it in any way will I end up paying a bigger fine regardless?

Just not quite sure how I can resolve this. Could it be resolved outside of court?

Any advice would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Spriggan457

Eden Quaint Road wrote: »

Go down to the local super and tell him what you just told us. You might get a sympathetic ear. You're a good lad in college and you took out a loan to pay for your fees and you car insurance and if your insurance goes any higher you may be forced to drop out of the course for which you studied so hard to get into in the first place.......

To speak to the super you have to "book an appointment in relation to a private matter" if you just ask for him, you will be fobbed off. Supers are always busy.

Thanks for the advice. The gas part is, all of that is true. I have a loan out from the credit union to pay for my fees and my car and if my premium goes up I don't know how I'm going to manage. That's the reason for this thread.

geeksauce

I'd imagine it would be unlikely you would ever get off the penalty points imo. Regardless of whether or not you had a genuine reason, if you did get off for that then I am sure everyone would have a genuine reason for speeding so everyone should get off if you know what I mean.

Spriggan457

?Cee?view wrote: »

Were you accompanied by a licensed driver? If you push this you could end up with a lot more trouble than 2 points.

If you want my honest opinion I think that law is a load of codswaddle and I've never been pulled for it being just me thankfully. I have simply no one else in my family or friends with a full license who live near me, let alone who would have the time to go with me everywhere that I need to go.
So the short answer is no, it's impossible for me to have that, and it's also impossible for me to get my full unless I practice.

Little CuChulainn

The penalty points are mandatory. It's much less likely that a ticket will be sorted out outside of court these days. You know because of all the mega "corruption" it apparently caused. If you can't control your speed as well as not hit anyone then you shouldn't be driving. If you are not able to understand speed limit signs then you are unlikely to pass your test. Incidentally, the purpose of having a full licenced driver beside you is so they can direct you in these things. If you are on an unfamiliar road then logic dictates you go slower than normal. 2 points should not affect your insurance unless you already have some.

I can't really see how anyone could consider the ticket unfair.

Spriggan457 wrote: »

If you want my honest opinion I think that law is a load of codswaddle and I've never been pulled for it being just me thankfully. I have simply no one else in my family or friends with a full license who live near me, let alone who would have the time to go with me everywhere that I need to go.
So the short answer is no, it's impossible for me to have that, and it's also impossible for me to get my full unless I practice.

If you cannot get someone to accompany you then don;t drive. You are only on a learners permit. The freedom comes when you pass the test and show you can drive on the roads safely without having to make up excuses for why you aren't.

Spriggan457

Losty Dublin wrote: »

What exactly is your rationale for getting a fine but not getting penalty points?

Not sure really, I guess the fact I was apparently speed at 11 over the limit would say to myself I should pay no matter what. But to get permanent penalty points on my license for something out of my hands aka having to overtake a cyclist on a road I've never been on with a special once-off speed limit.

Little CuChulainn

Spriggan457 wrote: »

Not sure really, I guess the fact I was apparently speed at 11 over the limit would say to myself I should pay no matter what. But to get permanent penalty points on my license for something out of my hands aka having to overtake a cyclist on a road I've never been on with a special once-off speed limit.

They aren't permanent

Spriggan457

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The penalty points are mandatory. It's much less likely that a ticket will be sorted out outside of court these days. You know because of all the mega "corruption" it apparently caused. If you can't control your speed as well as not hit anyone then you shouldn't be driving. If you are not able to understand speed limit signs then you are unlikely to pass your test. Incidentally, the purpose of having a full licenced driver beside you is so they can direct you in these things. If you are on an unfamiliar road then logic dictates you go slower than normal. 2 points should not affect your insurance unless you already have some.

I can't really see how anyone could consider the ticket unfair.



If you cannot get someone to accompany you then don;t drive. You are only on a learners permit. The freedom comes when you pass the test and show you can drive on the roads safely without having to make up excuses for why you aren't.

I guess you're right. Thanks for the advice anyway. At least I know the 2 points will not affect my insurance. Which was the main thing.

geeksauce

Spriggan457 wrote: »

If you want my honest opinion I think that law is a load of codswaddle and I've never been pulled for it being just me thankfully. I have simply no one else in my family or friends with a full license who live near me, let alone who would have the time to go with me everywhere that I need to go.
So the short answer is no, it's impossible for me to have that, and it's also impossible for me to get my full unless I practice.

Doesn't matter if you think a law is a load of codswaddle it's still the law and admitting you were driving unaccompanied is probably not the best idea ever.

If I were a guard and you were in complaining to me that you got a ticket for speeding but "it wasn't fair", chances are I would be looking to get rid of you as quick as I can and you being unaccompanied at the time of the offence would be a simple bit of leverage I could use to get you to stop complaining at me.

Spriggan457

The hilarious part of all this is that while I'm getting all this advice (Thanks by the way), on the radio there is people have photographic evidence of an actual speed camera van, speeding at 20 over the limit. It's on Radio One atm.

Little CuChulainn

Spriggan457 wrote: »

The hilarious part of all this is that while I'm getting all this advice (Thanks by the way), on the radio there is people have photographic evidence of an actual speed camera van, speeding at 20 over the limit. It's on Radio One atm.

It's awful Joe, just awful.

Spriggan457

geeksauce wrote: »

Doesn't matter if you think a law is a load of codswaddle it's still the law and admitting you were driving unaccompanied is probably not the best idea ever.

If I were a guard and you were in complaining to me that you got a ticket for speeding but "it wasn't fair", chances are I would be looking to get rid of you as quick as I can and you being unaccompanied at the time of the offence would be a simple bit of leverage I could use to get you to stop complaining at me.

I can see your point but nobody in my family who drives who lives near me, and I need to drive to do shopping for my two aunties, I live with them and they are too old to make it to the shops on foot. So, I won't care about that law, because it's impposible for me to comply to and unreasonable in most cases. Plus I have my 12 lessons and my full license is booked + payed for, my tutor said I'm perfectly capable of passing the test.
I don't believe it's my fault that there was a special 50Km limit where the road signs say 60Km because of a bicycle race, which is where almost all my attention was, trying to observe the cyclists.

Little CuChulainn

Do yourself a favour, if you are ever stopped by the Gardaí, don't give them the victim speech. It is your fault you did not know the speed limit. And you have no licence to drive. You have a licence to learn only. Your aunts most likely survived before you got your car so I'm sure they can survive til you pass your test.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Just take the points. Depending on the mood of the judge if you contest you could get absolutely hammered. Especially if you are in the greater Kildare area. There is a notorious judge there who's known for dishing 1000 quid fines and 4 points for speeding.

hullaballoo

If you fail to pay the fine and take the 2 penalty points, a court appearance is mandatory.

If you risk court and are found guilty, the fine will be increased and 4 penalty points will be applied. The judge does not have any discretion in relating to penalty points. S/he simply records the conviction, which is then relayed to the RSA who in turn apply the mandatory 4 points.

On the basis of what you have posted here, you know that you are guilty of speeding. In that case, I can't see how you could do anything other than enter a guilty plea, get convicted and end up with 4 points. At the moment, paying the fine and taking the two points is the lesser of two evils.

whippet

I gotta love these posts ... unlicensed driver, caught out by unusual road conditions, breaks the law and then thinks they should be exempt as they were confused!!!! .. and then giving further evidence that they actually don't believe they should comply with the law anyway!!!!

Your family problems and responsibilities are none of our concerns, but your compliance with the law and your requirement to demonstrate to a predetermined standard your proficiency to be driving on public roads are. BTW ... you don't have a license to drive, you have learner's permit which is a permit to learn how to drive - the clue is in the name

godtabh

Spriggan457 wrote: »

I need to drive

Driving is a privilege not a right. If you cant afford to drive or not willing to follow the rules of the road you shouldnt be driving.

Spriggan457 wrote: »

I don't believe it's my fault that there was a special 50Km limit where the road signs say 60Km because of a bicycle race, which is where almost all my attention was, trying to observe the cyclists.

Thats why a accompanying full licence holder is required for learner drivers. It is clear that you were not ready to be driving in such circumstances.

Spriggan457

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Just take the points. Depending on the mood of the judge if you contest you could get absolutely hammered. Especially if you are in the greater Kildare area. There is a notorious judge there who's known for dishing 1000 quid fines and 4 points for speeding.

Yeah you're right, I've heard about that judge. It's frustrating because depending on where the speed camera was I might have a good case that the road signs there said 60 and that if it was 50 temporary limit and I did go over it, it was only to overtake a cyclist involved in the Race at the time. I'd never break the speed limit intentionally. But to find out where the camera was I would have to go to court and to be honest I'd rather just pay the fine and get the points and take it as a slap on the wrist.

godtabh

Spriggan457 wrote: »

Yeah you're right, I've heard about that judge. It's frustrating because depending on where the speed camera was I might have a good case that the road signs there said 60 and that if it was 50 temporary limit and I did go over it, it was only to overtake a cyclist involved in the Race at the time. I'd never break the speed limit intentionally. But to find out where the camera was I would have to go to court and to be honest I'd rather just pay the fine and get the points and take it as a slap on the wrist.

so you weren't paying attention when you broke the speed limit?

Spriggan457

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Do yourself a favour, if you are ever stopped by the Gardaí, don't give them the victim speech. It is your fault you did not know the speed limit. And you have no licence to drive. You have a licence to learn only. Your aunts most likely survived before you got your car so I'm sure they can survive til you pass your test.

Yep, you're right. It's just frustrating because I might have a good case that the road signs there said 60 and that if it was indeed a 50 temporary limit and I did go over it, it was only to overtake a cyclist involved in the Race at the time. I wouldn't break the speed limit intentionally. But it not worth the trouble considering even though I was overtaking I was still in the wrong. I've decided I'm going to pay the fine anyway. Thanks for the advice.

Spriggan457

godtabh wrote: »

so you weren't paying attention when you broke the speed limit?

Haha very funny, if you want to nit-pick at the posts I make then read them all. You'd notice earlier that my only problem with this speed ticket was that there was a bike race on. The signs said 60Kmh, the red and white ones, I was doing 61Kmh, perfectly legal, if there was a small temporary sign saying 50 hidden somewhere, then I didn't see it, as I was concentrating much more on the horde of cyclists around at all times. The Gardaí were stopping cars diverting traffic onto roads that I didn't know ( Oh and by the way, when the Gardaí diverting traffic stopped me at Newbridge and I rolled down my window he seen my L plates and only me in the car and he didn't mind that I wasn't accompanied, he didn't even mention it, because it's a ridiculous law that not everyone can comply to I'd imagine. ) and if I did by per chance miss the sign or it did say 50Km/h, (Don't see how that's possible on any sections of the R445) that if I was breaking the limit it was only while overtaking cyclists, speeding up to make sure I get clear of them before oncoming traffic. Thanks for the 'advice' there. Much appreciated.

Spriggan457

hullaballoo wrote: »

If you fail to pay the fine and take the 2 penalty points, a court appearance is mandatory.

If you risk court and are found guilty, the fine will be increased and 4 penalty points will be applied. The judge does not have any discretion in relating to penalty points. S/he simply records the conviction, which is then relayed to the RSA who in turn apply the mandatory 4 points.

On the basis of what you have posted here, you know that you are guilty of speeding. In that case, I can't see how you could do anything other than enter a guilty plea, get convicted and end up with 4 points. At the moment, paying the fine and taking the two points is the lesser of two evils.

Yep, I'm gonna pay the fine and bite the bullet regardless. Learn my lesson the hard way to be much more attentive.

Spriggan457

godtabh wrote: »

Driving is a privilege not a right. If you cant afford to drive or not willing to follow the rules of the road you shouldnt be driving.


Thats why a accompanying full licence holder is required for learner drivers. It is clear that you were not ready to be driving in such circumstances.

Well, the sign in red and white on the roadside said 60Km/h and I was doing 61Km/h. Still not sure how having someone sitting next to me (if I could even have someone) who has no control over the car nor any control over how me, the operator of the car, will react and behave in certain situations, would help that scene play out any different. I just completely disagree with the speed camera's I think.
I can guarantee if there was a squad car pulled-in instead, they'd have seen the circumstances i.e the only reason I'd go over the speed limit (if I even did break the limit) (bearing in mind - if it was even possible for me to see the temporary 50Km/h signs with all the post office 'race vans' blocking line of sight) would be to complete an overtake of the cyclists before oncoming traffic came about. Doubt they would have batted an eyelid. But because it's a machine and it only sees (yes or no) I get the ticket. Not like it matters too much because I'm going to be paying it anyway.
But I just think it's all so funny and backwards, because if they had squad cars patrolling/ stationed I wouldn't get a ticket, ever. Yet all the people who blitz through Trim's back roads at 120Km/h on an 80Km/h road at night won't get fined because they just slow down at the hot-spots for where they park the vans.

deandean

OP a pal of mine went to the District Court to contest a speeding fine a few years back.

He started into his long and elaborate explanation. He got to about the 2nd sentence.

Judge: Look, what speed were you doing?

My pal: eeh, 70

Judge: What is the speed limit on that road?

My pal: eeh, 50.

Judge: Guilty as charged. NEXT!

Mikros

Spriggan457 wrote: »

and if I did by per chance miss the sign or it did say 50Km/h, (Don't see how that's possible on any sections of the R445) that if I was breaking the limit it was only while overtaking cyclists, speeding up to make sure I get clear of them before oncoming traffic. Thanks for the 'advice' there. Much appreciated.

The special speed limit of 50 km/h would have nothing to do with the cycle race - it would be a permanent speed limit introduced by the council through a by-law for a regional road that would otherwise be the default 80 km/h. This would typically be near a built up area and would have the usual 50 km/h signs in place.

It never feels very fair getting caught speeding by a camera and hearing about it a few weeks later, but the only person doing the driving was yourself so blaming the cyclists wont help much. You would be mad to contest it without good reason especially in Kildare. I'd pay the fine myself.

Spriggan457

deandean wrote: »

OP a pal of mine went to the District Court to contest a speeding fine a few years back.

He started into his long and elaborate explanation. He got to about the 2nd sentence.

Judge: Look, what speed were you doing?

My pal: eeh, 70

Judge: What is the speed limit on that road?

My pal: eeh, 50.

Judge: Guilty as charged. NEXT!

Yeah, thanks for the advice man. I've come to that conclusion now. I'm definitely paying the fine, probably 2moro to get it out of the way. It's just not worth it, because in the eyes of the judge the piece of paper says that the limit was 50 and I was doing 61, might as well just grit my teeth and pay it. Rather than chance a road ban or more penalty points, or worse!

Little CuChulainn

Spriggan457 wrote: »

Well, the sign in red and white on the roadside said 60Km/h and I was doing 61Km/h. Still not sure how having someone sitting next to me (if I could even have someone) who has no control over the car nor any control over how me, the operator of the car, will react and behave in certain situations, would help that scene play out any different. I just completely disagree with the speed camera's I think.
I can guarantee if there was a squad car pulled-in instead, they'd have seen the circumstances i.e the only reason I'd go over the speed limit (if I even did break the limit) (bearing in mind - if it was even possible for me to see the temporary 50Km/h signs with all the post office 'race vans' blocking line of sight) would be to complete an overtake of the cyclists before oncoming traffic came about. Doubt they would have batted an eyelid. But because it's a machine and it only sees (yes or no) I get the ticket. Not like it matters too much because I'm going to be paying it anyway.
But I just think it's all so funny and backwards, because if they had squad cars patrolling/ stationed I wouldn't get a ticket, ever. Yet all the people who blitz through Trim's back roads at 120Km/h on an 80Km/h road at night won't get fined because they just slow down at the hot-spots for where they park the vans.

You seem incapable of accepting responsibility. If a patrol car had stopped you and you told the Garda you couldn't focus on your speed because your were trying to overtake you would likely be facing a lot more serious prosecutions than a simple speeding ticket. No Garda will listen to an excuse like that. Nobody is to blame for your ticket but you and you got off lucky.