KG Elite Performance's National Certificate in Strength & Conditioning (NCSC

cc87

Transform wrote: »

Number of times a client has ever asked about my qualification in the past 20yrs = zero

That's awesome.

fit4

Brian? wrote: »

MOD NOTE: fit4, I believe you've made your point. If you have a personal axe to grind, boards.ie is not the place to do it. Can you leave it there please?

No problem at all. I have no personal issues. I am content but I am just trying to give some advice as the guy asked for some opinions.
I have given my opinion now.

Darkest Horse

Transform wrote: »

Number of times a client has ever asked about my qualification in the past 20yrs = zero

That doesn't make it meaningless. If you work for yourself and you get results, your quals shouldn't matter. If you want to work for an organisation it's the first thing they'll look for. You shouldn't dismiss it off the back of just your own experience.

Transform

Darkest Horse wrote: »

That doesn't make it meaningless. If you work for yourself and you get results, your quals shouldn't matter. If you want to work for an organisation it's the first thing they'll look for. You shouldn't dismiss it off the back of just your own experience.

Not dismissing it at all. Just my experience and the tendency for people to emphasise courses over coaches.

The only way to get good is to intern with someone and if you want to work with teams eg Leinster rugby then the UKSCA will be a must HOWEVER if you want a career that pays well (most sports coaching jobs are not paid very well) then doing endless courses re strength and conditioning etc should be the LAST thing you are spending your hard earned cash on.

Yes participate in continuing education but there comes a point where you need to filter the info you have taken in an decide what's useful for the population you're dealing with

Most wanna be trainers love collecting courses, Certs etc and worrying about what their competition is doing when the emphasis should be put on how do I get more clients and direct one to one experience.

I've written about this a few times on my blog if people want to read eg - http://www.dominicmunnelly.ie/2013/08/5-big-mistakes-trainers-make/

Mellor

Darkest Horse wrote: »

I'd agree with all that bar the last sentence. Certification is essential in S&C which is what the poster was looking to move into.

fit4 wrote: »

I do disagree about Certification and most courses been useless.

The original post didn't say it was useless, it said it was "the great nonsense of the modern world". Big difference. Something that is useless has no benefit, certification benefits solely by its existence - Like a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's a necessity due to the industry, but in a self regulatory industry, that kind of accreditation is basically a professional tax on your experience.

To use an external example. 5 years ago, I was accredited by a professional organisation. I moved countries, where they didn't have a worthwile presence imo, so I let my membership lapse. I lost a couple of letters after my name, I lost no experience or knowledge. It all means little, but it's deemed necessary at times.

fit4 wrote: »

In regards to the 28 hours to become an S and C coach. I knew that was too good to be true but I fell for it. I know people all over the country who are calling themselves S and C coach who are all just basic gym instructors.

This sentence sums up everything that's wrong with this thread and with the industry.
Had the course, exactly as it is, been certified by a generic regulator, you'd now be satisfied. A bone fide S&C coach. Content.
But on monday morning, would you be doing anything different with your clients?

Darkest Horse

Mellor wrote: »

The original post didn't say it was useless, it said it was "the great nonsense of the modern world". Big difference. Something that is useless has no benefit, certification benefits solely by its existence - Like a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's a necessity due to the industry, but in a self regulatory industry, that kind of accreditation is basically a professional tax on your experience.

To use an external example. 5 years ago, I was accredited by a professional organisation. I moved countries, where they didn't have a worthwile presence imo, so I let my membership lapse. I lost a couple of letters after my name, I lost no experience or knowledge. It all means little, but it's deemed necessary at times.


This sentence sums up everything that's wrong with this thread and with the industry.
Had the course, exactly as it is, been certified by a generic regulator, you'd now be satisfied. A bone fide S&C coach. Content.
But on monday morning, would you be doing anything different with your clients?

But again, that's your experience. I don't believe that the disgruntled poster is moving country. The UKSCA accreditation costs little and takes a day to complete. It's not flawless and if you ask me is actually very dogmatic but serves a purpose in protecting the integrity of the s and C side of the industry and validating those who wish to work in it. It's more important for PAYE employees than business people but it's an important element nonetheless. Your certification may not have helped you abroad but it certainly wouldn't have harmed you.

Mellor

Darkest Horse wrote: »

But again, that's your experience. I don't believe that the disgruntled poster is moving country. The UKSCA accreditation costs little and takes a day to complete. It's not flawless and if you ask me is actually very dogmatic but serves a purpose in protecting the integrity of the s and C side of the industry and validating those who wish to work in it. It's more important for PAYE employees than business people but it's an important element nonetheless. Your certification may not have helped you abroad but it certainly wouldn't have harmed you.

I think you are missing the point. I'm not saying it was useless. I'm not suggested it be removed. I'm just pointing out that its just a hoop that the system needs you to jump through. But in terms of becoming a top quality S&C coach, you need hands on, real world experience and self driven learning that no course or certification can provide.

Darkest Horse

Mellor wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. I'm not saying it was useless. I'm not suggested it be removed. I'm just pointing out that its just a hoop that the system needs you to jump through. But in terms of becoming a top quality S&C coach, you need hands on, real world experience and self driven learning that no course or certification can provide.

I agree but neither can you go to a potential employer and say "I haven't got accreditation but I do have loads of hands on experience". We all know that can be manipulated for example taking a warm up with a club GAA team who had their county players back for the night can quickly turn into "have worked extensively with elite athletes!"

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

But again, that's your experience. I don't believe that the disgruntled poster is moving country. The UKSCA accreditation costs little and takes a day to complete. It's not flawless and if you ask me is actually very dogmatic but serves a purpose in protecting the integrity of the s and C side of the industry and validating those who wish to work in it. It's more important for PAYE employees than business people but it's an important element nonetheless. Your certification may not have helped you abroad but it certainly wouldn't have harmed you.

UKSCA takes a day? Link to that please.

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

UKSCA takes a day? Link to that please.

No you're alright, just take my word for it.

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

No you're alright, just take my word for it.

Might you be confusing associate and accredited members?

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

Might you be confusing associate and accredited members?

Certainly not. The accreditation day takes just that, one day. Obviously there is a certain amount of work that underpins your performance on that day like athlete case study etc.

gordongekko

Darkest Horse wrote: »

Certainly not. The accreditation day takes just that, one day. Obviously there is a certain amount of work that underpins your performance on that day like athlete case study etc.

Ffs

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

Certainly not. The accreditation day takes just that, one day. Obviously there is a certain amount of work that underpins your performance on that day like athlete case study etc.

So the test process takes a day, but you've to do a load of work before it? Like the leaving cert or other exams?

I'm just not sure how the UKSCA exam is structured but was under the impression there was a;

>> MCQ exam
>> Case Study
>> Practical Exam

Is that not the case?

Could someone walk in with no study or coaching experience do it and pass?

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

So the test process takes a day, but you've to do a load of work before it? Like the leaving cert or other exams?

I'm just not sure how the UKSCA exam is structured but was under the impression there was a;

>> MCQ exam
>> Case Study
>> Practical Exam

Is that not the case?

Could someone walk in with no study or coaching experience do it and pass?

Sorry if I created the wrong impression. Having successfully negotiated the process myself I can confirm that I had to work very hard to achieve accredited status by studying and coaching. The accreditation process was one day in duration. I lie, it was but a few hours.

JayRoc

Hanley wrote: »

So the test process takes a day, but you've to do a load of work before it? Like the leaving cert or other exams?

I'm just not sure how the UKSCA exam is structured but was under the impression there was a;

>> MCQ exam
>> Case Study
>> Practical Exam

Is that not the case?

Could someone walk in with no study or coaching experience do it and pass?

You walk in and the accreditation process itself all takes place in less than a day. You'd need to have prepared stuff like a case study, etc and be prepared to be examined by a panel on that, and also prove your competence in certain lifts, and so on.

Hanley

JayRoc wrote: »

You walk in and the accreditation process itself all takes place in less than a day. You'd need to have prepared stuff like a case study, etc and be prepared to be examined by a panel on that, and also prove your competence in certain lifts, and so on.

So years of work to be an overnight success type scenario?

JayRoc

Hanley wrote: »

So years of work to be an overnight success type scenario?

Correct

Walsh7415

fit4 wrote: »

You gotta take a positive out of everything. When i done the course myself of course I did learn a bit in terms of how to correct someones technique of a squat and a small bit about Sprinting technique which i did enjoy but to me the course is been falsely advertised in places.
Here is the e mail i received before i attended the course. See below

Dear Sir/Madam,

KG Elite Performance are delighted to announce that we will be delivering our next Phase 1 S&C Course in UCD Sport & Fitness beginning October 11th. I would appreciate it if you may forward this to any fitness professional colleague who you feel would be interested in becoming a qualified Strength & Conditioning coach.

As you are probably aware, Strength & Conditioning has become extremely popular within the fitness industry with more and more fitness professionals looking to become qualified within this area. Over the last few years, KG Elite Performance have become the industry leaders in Strength & Conditioning CPD courses in Ireland. Our courses are Internationally recognized (please see below) and we have a number of performance partners who facilitate our courses (Under Armour, Kinetica Nutrition, FSL Electronics).

1-Industry leader in CPD courses in Ireland - How ?Who is the Regulator that has endorsed this course to accredit them with CPD credits because there is nothing on the website to say so only a few logos of other organisations. REPS, Skills active and other governing bodies and regulators can only Provide CPD endorsments.

2- Internationally recognised - How and recognised by who?

Hi Fit4,
I completed KG Elite Performances NCSC course recently and I am very surprised with a lot of your comments. Perhaps you had no strength & conditioning experience before entering the course or you had no understanding of S&C?

I think you have gone way over the top for some reason? All the coaches and trainers on my course were very happy with the content, delivery and manual provided. All three tutors were excellent and were very helpful.

People come on courses for different reasons and so have different expectations. I have been on a lot of CPD courses, workshops, seminars, etc (Athletes Performance, Vern Gambetta, etc) and the content delivered on KG Elite Performanceś course is up there with the best (without such a big hole in the pocket in comparison).

You said the course is not recognised.....how do you know this? I can prove it is recognised as I have attained CEC credits with the NSCA for doing the course. This has allowed me to renew my membership with their organisation for the next year. The course is recognised with the NSCA, NASM and ISSA for International CECś. I checked all of this out before applying.

The course provides you with a system for your S&C and then they delve into more difficult areas such as Olympic lifting, speed, periodiation, etc. But if you are not bringing anything to the table (S&C knowledge wise) what do you expect? Both Phase 1 & 2 courses are only x4 days but are very intense with a lot of structured detail provided so it takes a while for the penny to drop on things.

At the end of the day, it is a CPD course not a long term course delivered over x3 years or more. I have been a PT for 10 years so I had plent of prior learning going into the course, as a result I took a huge amount from it.

I am sorry but you are inaccurate in some of your points (International recognition, manual, note taking, etc). IMO KG Elite Performanceś course is well worth it and I have already recommended it to a few PT colleagues of mine.

Walsh7415

cc87 wrote: »

This is either a complete lie or due to you not knowing anything about the UKSCA and becoming accredited by them.

Would agree here with cc87, they have never said that they provide UKSCA accreditation so Fit4 you dont seem to know the UKSCA accreditation process. I am looking to do my UKSCA accreditation and they said their course would facilitate me in doing this as you would expect. I learned a lot about Olympic lifting, speed & agility, plyo, etc all of which are assessed on the UKSCA exam so feel a lot more confident now for next year when I plan to take the exam.

srich

fit4 wrote: »

Thanks Darkest Horse.
A couple of us have asked for notes and bullet points to be e mailed to us and we were told due to IP rights he cannot and will not send us anything and it is up to ourselves to take it all in and remember.
A valuable lesson learned myself but I would not like to see anyone else get caught. the average joe and a majority of coaches would be completely lost on the course. I am sure if you have a degree in Sports science you could relate to a lot he talks about but other than that It means jibber jabber to anyone else.

Sounds like you were looking for a beginner course in Strength & Conditioning. KG Elite Performance is a CPD course aimed at those who are qualified fitness professionals or who have coached for many years. I am a sport science graduate and I completed their NCSC course a few months ago. Maybe it was "jibber jabber" to you but to the rest of us on the course, we all thought it was great content and exactly what we were looking for.

Strength & Conditioning is a science so not sure what you were expecting or what you think S&C is?

srich

fit4 wrote: »

This is on the website. The NCSC is obviously there own recognition. See below

If you are looking for a career in strength & conditioning or looking to add strength & conditioning services to your existing practice, then becoming a certified strength & conditioning coach is a vital career step.KG Elite Performance is the leading short course provider of strength & conditioning in Rep. of Ireland, and our courses were devised to set the highest professional standards of practice for S&C coaches.

Our National Certificate in Strength & Conditioning (NCSC) exam assesses individuals who have completed both Phase 1 and Phase 2 S&C courses.

The NCSC course is made up of Phase 1 & 2 courses which both carry International recognition with different awarding bodies. I became CSCC qualified a few years ago so I did the NCSC course to gain my CEC credits with the NSCA. I got 1.9 credits for each Phase of the course. Do you know who the NSCA is???

srich

fit4 wrote: »

From any regulator that has recognised and endorsed the course and its framework. Since it is targeted at the fitness industry by the emails that have been sent out you would think like any other training course in the world that it would have been accredited especially after the money that he charges for a non recognised course.
CPD Credits are only useful if you are a fitness professional registered with the Regulator that provides you with CPD Points.There are plenty of organisations out there that will endorse training courses but from my experience they will not endorse this course due to the structure and very little focus on safety and injury prevention.

After all isnt that the Rule number 1 of real Strength and conditioning.

Many have been fooled by this course and I have spoke with a lot of people who have attended and the Majority are very unhappy that they have all now discovered it aint worth the fancy paper it is written on.

I think you either have no clue of what you are talking about or you have never done this course. It is a CPD course, therefore, it's emphasis is on International CEC's. Some courses don't even have this. KG Elite Performance's course has CEC with all the leading awarding bodies in S&C so not sure what you are on about? What organisations won't endorse their course? You said the course had no focus on injury prevention???? You clearly never attended the course as both Day 1's of each phase place a whole day around injury prevention.

What course did you do? All the people on my course though it was awesome and I was recommended the course by former class mates from college and they all thought it was awesome too.

srich

fit4 wrote: »

Hi Darkest horse. Did you complete the course yourself?
I personally did but like I said i picked up a couple of things. No more than I would if I bought a good book.

I am not hear posting to knock anyone. I am here to give my opinion and explain my experience along with many others who attended the course with me.
The tutor is well educated in what he does but he has spent years in college to get educated. He didnt do a short course on S & C.
This is my point.
I would sooner pay for a 3 day course that is actually accredited and recognised then hand out money for a made up course that has no recognition at all only by hes own company.
I have attended a lot of workshops, seminars and i have read a lot of books and practiced since I have completed that course.
One seminar i actually attended was by Usain Bolts conditioning trainer who is named Micky Ruben. Google him if you are unfamiliar.
I learned a lot from him in one seminar.
A hell of a lot more than I did on the KG Elite course. I talked to Micky about S and C in Ireland and how there is not much here in terms of training courses. I spoke to him about this course i attended and he was actually shocked.

This is a man that is the conditioning coach for the fastest man in the world so he is doing something right. He opened my eyes a lot to how so many of us are training the wrong way and why we have so many injuries in sports etc.

Anyway this other guy who is highly educated in the area of S and C but this is the problem. He cannot expect to teach and deliver such a complex form of training in a very short course. This takes time.
My personal opinion is this guy came out of college with all of hes degrees and like everyone in these current times, He probably found it hard to get personal recognition or get any work with teams etc.He wanted to make back all the money he spent educating himself which there is nothing wrong with that.
He obviously saw that there was a market in the fitness industry for this and put all of hes years of studying into a short course to make a quick easy buck.

You cannot wrong a man for trying to earn a living but the course I attended was structured very badly and ran through everything very very quickly. (Too Quick)
This is the thing. You have people with all the degrees out there but at the end of the day they cannot break things down to someone elses level and teach effectively.
As the saying goes a good student does not always make a great teacher.

I am not getting caught up on a rant here. I am just giving my opinion and like I said to Top it off. This course is falsely advertised, It has no accreditation, It is a con because any training course should provide you with notes, and a summary e mail with all the bullet points covered on the course etc after paying for it. There was no feedback asked for after the course either which is not good for hes so called Sand C qualification, Certified Accredited course with all the fancy sponsors to make up for the lack of recognition.
The manual was the worst training manual i have ever seen and for the money I paid i didnt expect to be handed a binded folder with very few pages or information about the course for a training manual.
A good course training manual should have all of the course content in the manual or a majority of it at least. There was very little in that manual to take away and look back over to refresh after attending the course and we were all refused to be sent an e mail with a summary of the course and notes etc.
This to me is a con and I hope he sleeps well at night knowing he is taking peoples hard earned cash and flogging them off with what he does.

Not going off on a rant.....I think that time past 10 posts ago. My college lecturer use to say, "never voice your opinion unless your points are accurate, and never try to discredit someone unless you are creditable yourself"

You are talking a lot of rubbish here and sounds like you are trying to defame their course. I've been on a few CPD courses and workshops and there has never been extra notes sent out after the course. All the content I needed was in the manual which contained all the course content so why would you need anything else sent out??

Your main point here is a lack of accreditation, already stated in another post it has accreditation with NSCA, NASM and ISSA. It is not a long term course like a HETAC Level 6 course which will take x2-3 years to complete. Looks like you are either confusing a CPD course with a longer course on the National Framework? Either way your points are way off and totally inaccurate.

srich

fit4 wrote: »

You gotta take a positive out of everything. When i done the course myself of course I did learn a bit in terms of how to correct someones technique of a squat and a small bit about Sprinting technique which i did enjoy but to me the course is been falsely advertised in places.
Here is the e mail i received before i attended the course. See below

Dear Sir/Madam,

KG Elite Performance are delighted to announce that we will be delivering our next Phase 1 S&C Course in UCD Sport & Fitness beginning October 11th. I would appreciate it if you may forward this to any fitness professional colleague who you feel would be interested in becoming a qualified Strength & Conditioning coach.

As you are probably aware, Strength & Conditioning has become extremely popular within the fitness industry with more and more fitness professionals looking to become qualified within this area. Over the last few years, KG Elite Performance have become the industry leaders in Strength & Conditioning CPD courses in Ireland. Our courses are Internationally recognized (please see below) and we have a number of performance partners who facilitate our courses (Under Armour, Kinetica Nutrition, FSL Electronics).

1-Industry leader in CPD courses in Ireland - How ?Who is the Regulator that has endorsed this course to accredit them with CPD credits because there is nothing on the website to say so only a few logos of other organisations. REPS, Skills active and other governing bodies and regulators can only Provide CPD endorsments.

2- Internationally recognised - How and recognised by who?

REPS and Skills Active are for the FITNESS INDUSTRY ONLY. This is the Strength & Conditioning industry......a different service provider than a fitness instructor/personal trainer. Its like comparing sport science with physiotherapy and say they are the same thing. Strength & Conditioning course providers will typically look to get accredited with S&C professional awarding bodies like NSCA, etc. Look at Athletes Performance, they have pretty much the same accreditation as KG Elite Performance.

I'm done reading your posts as you talk complete nonsense and your facts are way off!

Vet Thrower

fit4 wrote: »

One seminar i actually attended was by Usain Bolts conditioning trainer who is named Micky Ruben. Google him if you are unfamiliar.
I learned a lot from him in one seminar.
A hell of a lot more than I did on the KG Elite course. I talked to Micky about S and C in Ireland and how there is not much here in terms of training courses. I spoke to him about this course i attended and he was actually shocked.

This is a man that is the conditioning coach for the fastest man in the world so he is doing something right. He opened my eyes a lot to how so many of us are training the wrong way and why we have so many injuries in sports etc.

This Mickey Ruben may be a great coach, but it certainly seems like he is overplaying his association with Usain Bolt.

The only mention of him on the IAAF site is a reference to him joining Bolt's entourage as a masseur in 2007. All the more recent results are about him giving seminars in the likes of Portlaoise and Carlow.

Darkest Horse

Vet Thrower wrote: »

This Mickey Ruben may be a great coach, but it certainly seems like he is overplaying his association with Usain Bolt.

The only mention of him on the IAAF site is a reference to him joining Bolt's entourage as a masseur in 2007. All the more recent results are about him giving seminars in the likes of Portlaoise and Carlow.

I think (think!) the whole Irish contingent that surround Bolt and his team are overplaying their level of involvement.