Leaving Cert Choices

bananacat11

Hi, Ive just been informed that I haven't gotten Geography for my choices which means i have to pick between either History or Biology. I'm really at a loss as to which to pick. I got a B in both in my Junior Cert. I love History but I've heard it's very difficult for the leaving. I hate Science but I quite like Biology and I've heard it's a good subject for points which I need. I've a good memory and I'm good at English. The other subjects I'm doing are DCG, French and Accounting. I'm working towards being an architect.
Any help available would be very useful Thanks.

jazz101

Biology is the way to go going on what you've posted. A good place to pick up points. History is indeed very difficult, and you really, REALLY need a good teacher for it. I'd go as far to say that history above any other subject depends on the teacher, because the nature of the essays changes so often.

randylonghorn

bananacat11 wrote: »

Hi, Ive just been informed that I haven't gotten Geography for my choices which means i have to pick between either History or Biology. I'm really at a loss as to which to pick. I got a B in both in my Junior Cert. I love History but I've heard it's very difficult for the leaving. I hate Science but I quite like Biology and I've heard it's a good subject for points which I need. I've a good memory and I'm good at English. The other subjects I'm doing are DCG, French and Accounting. I'm working towards being an architect.
Any help available would be very useful Thanks.

Both need a good memory, which you seem to have. Good English writing skills are useful for History as well, again a plus.

Reasonable analytical skills will make History MUCH easier, so think about how you would score in that area; probably not so central to biology. Part of the reason some people find History difficult is because they think they need to learn off vast reams by rote; making the effort to understand and think about what you're studying, and trace the patterns, and causes and effects, will actually make it much easier to remember, and to answer the questions well in the exams.

Neither is particularly relevant to architecture, so that's no help.

Mr Pseudonym

I would kick up suuuuuch a fuss. Geography is the second most popular non-core subject (a few thousand behind Biology, and well ahead of Business). It's entirely farcical that they couldn't accommodate you. Were you asked to rank your desired subjects - ie were you maybe declined Geo cause they had to accomm you in obscure subjects?

As for your choice, Bio is by far the more sensible with regard to maximising up points: despite being the most popular non-core subject, it has an astoundingly high (IMO!) A-rate of ~16%.

seavill

What a stupid statement. Why is it farcical that they couldn't accommodate this student if a class is full it's full. Can't put students sitting on the roof. This happens to numerous students in every school every year. It could be a case where they can only put geography on at same time as DCG. Or most likely the class is full. Either way kicking up a fuss is terrible advice

Biology would be the one I would recommend based on family and friends experiences. There is lots of leaning in it I would hate it personally but history to me would be something you would really need to love to get top marks to keep your interest over the two years. All of the above is just my opinion in reality only you know deep down. Most likely you have a gut feeling go with that.

Hon the Dubs

Could be a blessing in disguise! Geography is very tough to get a very good grade at L.C. It all depends on the paper on the day! Think only about 4% or so get A's in Geo

randylonghorn

seavill wrote: »

What a stupid statement.

While the rest of your post makes very valid points, this is hardly necessary.

I'm sure you will agree with me that it is appropriate for those of us with slightly more life experience to set a good example of how to argue a point with courtesy, especially in this forum.

Mr Pseudonym

Hon the Dubs wrote: »

Could be a blessing in disguise! Geography is very tough to get a very good grade at L.C. It all depends on the paper on the day! Think only about 4% or so get A's in Geo

About 3% get an A1; 8+% get an A. I thoroughly disagree that it's a difficult subject in which to get a good grade. The somewhat-reduced percentage is indicative of the standard of the average student.

Mr Pseudonym

randylonghorn wrote: »

While the rest of your post makes very valid points...

The mod has deemed the reprimanded-poster's contributions to be "very valid"; I must humbly disagree.

Whatever about being unable to accommodate students in minority subjects like Classical Studies, Economics, etc, there is no excuse for not being able to accommodate all those students who requested to take one of Biology, Geography and Business - the trio of subjects in a distinct group, in terms of uptake (provided, as I implied in my initial post, that the student wasn't accommodated in a minority subject instead).

seavill

If the class can accommodate 30 students and 32 have applied how are they to be accommodated.

If geography is on at the same time as DCG how is this student to be accommodated.

A school has a finite amount if resources they cannot just agree to every choice. Surely you can see not everything is always possible

randylonghorn

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Whatever about being unable to accommodate students in minority subjects like Classical Studies, Economics, etc, there is no excuse for not being able to accommodate all those students who requested to take one of Biology, Geography and Business

I would equally humbly suggest that you make this argument to the Minister for Education, who has been slashing student / teacher ratios over the last few years in the name of the Great God "Austerity", may he die in pieces (the god, not the minister!)

There was a time when schools might have had some leeway to accommodate a particularly large application for certain subjects by splitting the group into two; that kind of safety cushion just isn't there any more.

I know small rural schools who can't offer Hons Maths, they simply don't have the teaching resources to provide the subject for 3-4 students. Or they are trying to teach Hons and Pass simultaneously, with perhaps an extra class for the Hons group outside normal hours or some similar mechanism.

The Minister's response is to allocate extra CAO points to Hons Maths ... but not any extra points towards honours maths when it comes to calculating a school's student / teacher ratio!

Can anyone spot the flaw in this logic? Now, this is a difficult one, and you'll have to think VERY hard!! :pac:

what ever do you DON'T PICK HISTORY..trust me you'd regret it

Anonymagician

The A1 rate for history in 2012 was 6% with 12% getting an A2 or higher. Roughly 80% of students in the last few years have gotten an A, B or C grade.

Despite popular myths, you don't have to grind away at history for two years to pass. You end up covering the concepts so much that it's nature to you and your English grade will more than likely be bumped up too. At least half the course is interesting and the exam is quite predictable. There'll never be a time when you have to study the whole course.

Architecturally speaking both history and biology aren't exactly relevant but you do get to learn about important landmarks, buildings etc in history so I'd really think about it if I were you before heading into a science!

AulBiddy

History is a lot of essay work - it might eat into your time for other subjects, however if you enjoy it you should go for it. I do think biology is a fabulous subject though, marks are quite easy to get sometimes if you know the course well. In my school biology history and geography are 3 of the most popular subjects its unusual to see them on the one line. You might be lucky that if someone doesn't like geography they might drop out to another subject that would suit them better. Quite a few dropped out of my biology class which made room for new people.

Mr Pseudonym

Anonymagician wrote: »

The A1 rate for history in 2012 was 6% with 12% getting an A2 or higher. Roughly 80% of students in the last few years have gotten an A, B or C grade.

Despite popular myths, you don't have to grind away at history for two years to pass. You end up covering the concepts so much that it's nature to you and your English grade will more than likely be bumped up too. At least half the course is interesting and the exam is quite predictable. There'll never be a time when you have to study the whole course.

That A-rate should be seen in the context of the subject being taken by only a third of the number of students that takes Biology. In the last three years, 78% have got A-C in History, with 70% getting the equivalent in Biology. Given the disparity in uptake (with increased students likely significantly diluting the average standard), I think Biology comfortably comes out on top in that comparison.

One of the challenges of History is that you need to make big advancements in your writing ability. As important as knowing the facts is how well you structure your answer and how well you address the question. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that the only way to improve those is with practise. Therefore, a prospective History student should expect to do a lot of writing (the exam requires the writing of three 4-5 page essays). I'm not entirely sure what Anonymagician means by "grind"; certainly, learning endless facts and dates is not required. But, almost certainly, History requires an above-average amount of commitment.

Red Hare

bananacat11 wrote: »

Hi, Ive just been informed that I haven't gotten Geography for my choices which means i have to pick between either History or Biology. I'm really at a loss as to which to pick. I got a B in both in my Junior Cert. I love History but I've heard it's very difficult for the leaving. I hate Science but I quite like Biology and I've heard it's a good subject for points which I need. I've a good memory and I'm good at English. The other subjects I'm doing are DCG, French and Accounting. I'm working towards being an architect.
Any help available would be very useful Thanks.

I am thinking that the fact that you are good at English would be of help to you in writing essays in History. If you enjoy writing essays in English then you will probably do so in History. Its important to pick a subject you enjoy - two years is a long time to study a subject you may not enjoy.

On the other hand you may enjoy Biology. The fact that you have to do drawings and diagrams makes it not unlike Geography or DCG which you obviously do enjoy.

randylonghorn

Bananacat, I think you'll see from some of the comments in this thread that it's the usual story when you ask a lot of people: some will like history, some won't; some will like biology, some won't.

Really, you have to make your own mind up and figure out as best you can which YOU would prefer / find easiest.