****Leaving Certificate: Higher Level Maths Discussion****

Janeh9

FatRat wrote: »

I said I'd leave it but this is annoying me... Was the null hypothesis "The drug is not more successful" or was it "The drug is more successful"? I said it was the drug is not more successful and therefore rejected it because it was?

I think the null hypothesis was "The drug is more successful" but as long as you stated that you were talking about the drug being successful as opposed to being unsuccessful you're probably alright

Ompala

FatRat wrote: »

So its "The drug is more successful"? If so then I must have stated the alternative hypothesis! Hopefully I don't get f*cked over with marks because of it! Thanks

As long as you can do the calculations, you will do very well in the marking scheme for it

FatRat

Ompala wrote: »

As long as you can do the calculations, you will do very well in the marking scheme for it

I was thinking that! They might get that I just made a mistakes with the definition of "null hypothesis" I got it right otherwise! For the last part of the question I got the standard error and added it onto 0.51 and then put the number of people tested, on which the drug was succesful divided by 500 and put it equal to 0.51 + the standard error. That way I found the minimum number of succesful people that were required so that the hypothesis could be accepted. Can anyone tell me if this was correct?

FHB

But if the null hypothesis was that Drug A was more effective, then part b (ii) doesn't really make sense.

Maybe they'll accept both ways though. It's ambiguous.

Ompala

FatRat wrote: »

I was thinking that! They might get that I just made a mistakes with the definition of "null hypothesis" I got it right otherwise! For the last part of the question I got the standard error and added it onto 0.51 and then put the number of people tested, on which the drug was succesful divided by 500 and put it equal to 0.51 + the standard error. That way I found the minimum number of succesful people that were required so that the hypothesis could be accepted. Can anyone tell me if this was correct?

I'd love to be able to put your mind at ease, but afraid I don't know how these are treated for LC level, the way I would go about it is to find the difference for population proportions and test whether they are the equal to 0 (in which case drugs are the same) or if there is a significant level of difference between the two at 5%. What you have above though seems in line with how to tackle it though :cool:

AtomicKoala

The Null Hypothesis is always that no change occurs.

The example in my book helped: Humans aren't causing climate change would be the Null Hypothesis. You accept that until proven otherwise. Hence, scientists have accepted that we are - rejecting it. But until conclusive evidence is found you accept it.

Thus, the Null Hypothesis was that the medication was not any more effective - following the calculation we reject that.

Ompala

AtomicKoala wrote: »

The Null Hypothesis is always that no change occurs.

The example in my book helped: Humans aren't causing climate change would be the Null Hypothesis. You accept that until proven otherwise. Hence, scientists have accepted that we are - rejecting it. But until conclusive evidence is found you accept it.

Thus, the Null Hypothesis was that the medication was not any more effective - following the calculation we reject that.

Project Maths, I give up :P
But on the bright side guys, ye never have to do maths again

Jackthelad1000

Anyone have the solutions to maths paper 2?

robman60

Jackthelad1000 wrote: »

Anyone have the solutions to maths paper 2?

http://www.studentxpress.ie/HLProjectMaths/index.html

They're not all there yet, only as far as question 4 or something, but they're definitely reliable from what I can see.

2thousand14

robman60 wrote: »

http://www.studentxpress.ie/HLProjectMaths/index.html

They're not all there yet, only as far as question 4 or something, but they're definitely reliable from what I can see.

I'm still convinced that the answer to Q3(a) is 24 and not 12

robman60

2thousand14 wrote: »

I'm still convinced that the answer to Q3(a) is 24 and not 12

It just depends on whether you count the separate zeros as different combinations. They'll almost undoubtedly accept both answers as the question was ambiguous in that regard.

TheBegotten

robman60 wrote: »

It just depends on whether you count the separate zeros as different combinations. They'll almost undoubtedly accept both answers as the question was ambiguous in that regard.

To be fair, almost the whole bloody thing was ambiguous. I can imagine there'll be a couple of different answers accepted for some questions. It seems to be a trend in the papers that the questions are intentionally misleading/ambiguous, presumably under the guise of getting us to think for ourselves.

miissjuly

I heard pass mark is 30% then why did people with 38% get an E last year?

fionnacake

miissjuly wrote: »

I heard pass mark is 30% then why did people with 38% get an E last year?

It's 40%, no?

Peregrine

miissjuly wrote: »

I heard pass mark is 30%

From who?

They'd find it hard to justify passing someone who got 30% when the whole marking scheme itself is designed to pass people. Yeah, once you get around 36%, they'll probably bring you up to a pass somehow but saying that the pass mark is 30% is a bit exaggerated, no?

EoghanIRL

robman60 wrote: »

It just depends on whether you count the separate zeros as different combinations. They'll almost undoubtedly accept both answers as the question was ambiguous in that regard.

I still think it's 24 though . I know the two zeros are the same number but they are two different sections on the wheel. Not sure if I'm making sense or just deluded .

miissjuly

fionnacake wrote: »

It's 40%, no?

Students are saying this year pass mark is 30% but a repeat said he failed because he got 38% and I thought it's 40% as well

fionnacake

miissjuly wrote: »

Students are saying this year pass mark is 30% but a repeat said he failed because he got 38% and I thought it's 40% as well

Maybe it depends on the examiner or area you're in :S Who knows with project maths

MegGustaa

miissjuly wrote: »

Students are saying this year pass mark is 30% but a repeat said he failed because he got 38% and I thought it's 40% as well

The pass mark for every subject is 38% according to the Leaving Cert handbook. They award a D3 with a 2% tolerance.

lostatsea

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I still think it's 24 though . I know the two zeros are the same number but they are two different sections on the wheel. Not sure if I'm making sense or just deluded .

It is a fair point. The answer will almost certainly be 12, although marks will have to be awarded for 24.

Instead of thinking about the structure of the board, think about his winnings. He has two 0 euro winnings (not really money won but you know what I mean). These winnings could have been achieved by landing on the same 0 euro sector or different 0 euro sectors. In terms of what he gets in winnings, it makes absolutely no difference, and so for all intents and purposes it amounts to the same result.

All that is being asked here is how many ways can you arrange 4 objects {5, 3, 0, 0}, two of which are alike.

But as you have already said the question is open to a different interpretation.

Saskatchewan

Student xpress have uploaded solutions to the paper and have deemed the answer as 12. They've some formula that looks official so I presume\hope they are correct

LCMATHS

miissjuly wrote: »

Students are saying this year pass mark is 30% but a repeat said he failed because he got 38% and I thought it's 40% as well

A pass is 38% there is a 2% leeway when it comes to a D3

Janeh9

LCMATHS wrote: »

A pass is 38% there is a 2% leeway when it comes to a D3

I'd imagine it depends on the bell curve no?

randylonghorn

miissjuly wrote: »

Students are saying this year pass mark is 30% ...

Students say lots of daft things, often on here! :pac:

MegGustaa

Janeh9 wrote: »

I'd imagine it depends on the bell curve no?

No the bell curve has to do with the allocation of marks, ie how they weight specific questions within a 25-marker. In order to game the bell curve, they "frontload" marks into easier sections. Everyone gets the easier ones, few get the hardest ones completely correct. So you get a lot of passes, fewer A1s. All this goes on at the marking conference after the Leaving Cert, where each subject and paper's marking scheme is finalised before the markers go off with their bag of scripts. That's my understanding of how the process works.

Once the marking scheme has been finalised every paper has to be marked according to that, regardless of the standard of the other papers it happened to be in with. Especially in a subject like Maths where there are clear-cut answers. They don't fiddle with the marks so that every examiner has X amount of As, Bs etc. because they'd be caught out by students viewing and appealing their marks, surely.

I know we've all heard of examiners being told to go back and remark their papers because there's too many As but that's more likely to be in the more subjective subjects like English and Irish, or where it was determined that the examiner applied the marking scheme too loosely.

LCMATHS

Janeh9 wrote: »

I'd imagine it depends on the bell curve no?

No, look it up, the 2% leeway is a pretty official thing, what they'll do to ensure the curve is right is just make the marking scheme harder or easier so you end up getting less than 38%, but whatever the ending marking scheme ends up to be, a 38% with that will be a pass.

FatRat

http://www.studentxpress.ie/HLProjectMaths/HLSetsolutions(2014)_P2Q5.pdf

Just skimming through the answers there and I found this. I made the mistake of letting the slope equal -6/5 in the test and couldn't see where I went wrong. But even in this answer how does:

10-0/0-(25/3) = 6/5 and not -6/5?

2thousand14

FatRat wrote: »

http://www.studentxpress.ie/HLProjectMaths/HLSetsolutions(2014)_P2Q5.pdf

Just skimming through the answers there and I found this. I made the mistake of letting the slope equal -6/5 in the test and couldn't see where I went wrong. But even in this answer how does:

10-0/0-(25/3) = 6/5 and not -6/5?

It should be -25/3
a minus by a minus = a plus
I made the exact same mistake

MegGustaa

FatRat wrote: »

http://www.studentxpress.ie/HLProjectMaths/HLSetsolutions(2014)_P2Q5.pdf

Just skimming through the answers there and I found this. I made the mistake of letting the slope equal -6/5 in the test and couldn't see where I went wrong. But even in this answer how does:

10-0/0-(25/3) = 6/5 and not -6/5?

There's a typo in the solution, it should be 0 - (-25/3) on the bottom. Answer is correct.

The diagram shows it has a positive slope anyway.

FatRat

My god thats a second year mistake I made right there haha and I spent ages looking but couldn't see where I went wrong :pac:

As for the last part can we definitely use the distance of a perpendicular line to a point formula to get the answer?