Ultra Discussion Thread

davedanon

I put this on the Rave thread, but maybe here's a better place for it. Regarding Don's epic Wicklow run. I'm just cutting and pasting it.


A run like that is simply beyond my comprehension. Add in the terrain, the weather, running at night. Incredible. My own experience just doesn't equip me to grasp the scale of the achievement.

So what do the ultra boys and girls on here think about it?

BeepBeep67

davedanon wrote: »

I put this on the Rave thread, but maybe here's a better place for it. Regarding Don's epic Wicklow run. I'm just cutting and pasting it.


A run like that is simply beyond my comprehension. Add in the terrain, the weather, running at night. Incredible. My own experience just doesn't equip me to grasp the scale of the achievement.

So what do the ultra boys and girls on here think about it?

I went out for a second recovery run yesterday after work, and for the 1st mile I felt crap.

I then thought, I'm on mile 5 of a total of 11 miles today and I considered what Don must have experienced in his head multiple times over the course of last weekend, smiled to myself and just got on with it.

It's a massive achievement in my opinion, not only to keep moving for 37+ hours, but considering the terrain and weather, I have nothing but respect for the mad fcuker.

ultrapercy

Congratulations Don, it sounds like an epic run. How does this run compare with the Bob Graham round ? (If I have name right) From my limited experience of trail running it must have taken some effort to complete especially given the weather conditions.

Sandwell

I'm no ultra runner but from reading Feet in the Clouds the Bob Graham involves hitting a certain amount of summits within 24 hours which means a huge amount of climbing, much of it on open mountain. It also requires significant navigational ability. The Wicklow Way x 2 is a much longer distance but is all on runnable and reasonably well marked trail.

Enduro

The Bob Graham is much much more technical, and considerably more climby than the WW. Also there are a couple of hundred pevious Bob Graham completions to measure any given run against. This makes evaluating the merit of performance much easier. The record for the BG is stunningly good. It could be a long time before its beaten.

Don is a tough MFer... the weather was fairly brutal out there (I was about 10 or 12 hours out and about in it over the weekend in the Wicklow hills myself, so I can verify that much!). It took a lot of grit and determination to keep the show on the road in those conditions. But then, I'd expect that from him. Bad weather in the hills is something you have to be able to cope with if you're going to go ultrarunning in the hills, and Don is an experienced ultra-trail runner. So a great run that not too many people in Ireland would be able to replicate.

On how to evaluate the relative merit of it. That's harder as its a one off that nobody else has done. The best you could probably do is is compare how it stacks up against WW run time(s), and take a measure from that (similarly to how you might measure a marathon time against half marathon times to determine their relative merit).

Djoucer

Fairly comprehensive article on the Washington Post on what happens to your body when you run an ultra.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/health/ultramarathon/

davedanon

Enduro wrote: »

The Bob Graham is much much more technical, and considerably more climby than the WW. Also there are a couple of hundred pevious Bob Graham completions to measure any given run against. This makes evaluating the merit of performance much easier. The record for the BG is stunningly good. It could be a long time before its beaten.

Don is a tough MFer... the weather was fairly brutal out there (I was about 10 or 12 hours out and about in it over the weekend in the Wicklow hills myself, so I can verify that much!). It took a lot of grit and determination to keep the show on the road in those conditions. But then, I'd expect that from him. Bad weather in the hills is something you have to be able to cope with if you're going to go ultrarunning in the hills, and Don is an experienced ultra-trail runner. So a great run that not too many people in Ireland would be able to replicate.

On how to evaluate the relative merit of it. That's harder as its a one off that nobody else has done. The best you could probably do is is compare how it stacks up against WW run time(s), and take a measure from that (similarly to how you might measure a marathon time against half marathon times to determine their relative merit).

Hasn't he established a benchmark, though? Surely others will attempt to repeat the feat and surpass his time.

TFBubendorfer

davedanon wrote: »

Hasn't he established a benchmark, though? Surely others will attempt to repeat the feat and surpass his time.

Of course. People might run faster but only one guy did it first.

TRR_the_turd

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Of course. People might run faster but only one guy did it first.

Well if his time can't be beaten, I'd suggest an out and back and out again. Set a new benchmark and you'd also be the first to do it

Enduro

davedanon wrote: »

Hasn't he established a benchmark, though? Surely others will attempt to repeat the feat and surpass his time.

This type of run is known as a FKT... fastest known time. There's a bit of trend for doing FKTs at the moment. Killian Journet is on a self defined project to set FKTs on the highest peaks on each contintent, for example.

The unusual thing here is that the Wicklow Way has a very long and established tradition of FKT attempts, and in the last few years this has been added to by having an organised race on it as well (on exactly the same route). And, as has been mentioned on other threads recently, race results speak for themselves. Even the likes of Killian Journet are defined and have established their reputation from their race results. Killian's FKTs wouldn't get much attention if he hadn't already established his reputation from his stellar race results.

Basically anyone can easily enough make up some kind of "challenge" for themselves doing sometime that no-one else has done before. There are plenty of people internationally and localy trading off a reputation built on such things (Dean K. being the obvious international example) that on paper look impressive, but in reality are just obscure events that nobody else could be bothered doing. <cliche>In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king</cliche>. But the true level of their acievments can usually be judjed when you look at their race results.

None of the above is targetted at Don. Don's a good ultra-trail runner who actually does turn up to races and compete. For me his results on the Wicklow Way race itself definite his true ability. And he has rather good results. My personal assessment of the merit of this run is that it is not as good as his run in the WW race last year (which he won), comparing the two finish times.

To be brutally honest, I doubt that many other people will attempt to repeat the feat as it's kind of pointless. That's pretty much the reason why Don is the first to do it. There's plenty of runners who are capable of doing it, but its a lot of effort for something that could be interpreted as pretty pointless. This is especially true given that there is an established race on the route where you can actually compete directly, both in the race and against the established record times. As TRR_the_turd says, sure why not do it 4 times rather than twice, ad infinitem.

Utdfan20titles

Enduro wrote: »

This type of run is known as a FKT... fastest known time. There's a bit of trend for doing FKTs at the moment. Killian Journet is on a self defined project to set FKTs on the highest peaks on each contintent, for example.

The unusual thing here is that the Wicklow Way has a very long and established tradition of FKT attempts, and in the last few years this has been added to by having an organised race on it as well (on exactly the same route). And, as has been mentioned on other threads recently, race results speak for themselves. Even the likes of Killian Journet are defined and have established their reputation from their race results. Killian's FKTs wouldn't get much attention if he hadn't already established his reputation from his stellar race results.

Basically anyone can easily enough make up some kind of "challenge" for themselves doing sometime that no-one else has done before. There are plenty of people internationally and localy trading off a reputation built on such things (Dean K. being the obvious international example) that on paper look impressive, but in reality are just obscure events that nobody else could be bothered doing. <cliche>In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king</cliche>. But the true level of their acievments can usually be judjed when you look at their race results.

None of the above is targetted at Don. Don's a good ultra-trail runner who actually does turn up to races and compete. For me his results on the Wicklow Way race itself definite his true ability. And he has rather good results. My personal assessment of the merit of this run is that it is not as good as his run in the WW race last year (which he won), comparing the two finish times.

To be brutally honest, I doubt that many other people will attempt to repeat the feat as it's kind of pointless. That's pretty much the reason why Don is the first to do it. There's plenty of runners who are capable of doing it, but its a lot of effort for something that could be interpreted as pretty pointless. This is especially true given that there is an established race on the route where you can actually mm directly, both in the race and against the established record times. As TRR_the_turd says, sure why not do it 4 times rather than twice, ad infinitem.

The world's best marathon runners would wipe the floor with their ultra equivalents if they stepped up to their distances no question.

But I suppose they agree with your sentiments above and think what's the point?

TFBubendorfer

Utdfan20titles wrote: »

The world's best marathon runners would wipe the floor with their ultra equivalents if they stepped up to their distances no question.

But I suppose they agree with your sentiments above and think what's the point?

Maybe.

Takahiro Sunada has a 2:10 marathon PB. That's no slouch and being a few minutes behind the best Kenyans in the marathon doesn't automatically mean he would still be behind them after 100k.

dublin runner

Enduro wrote:

To be brutally honest, I doubt that many other people will attempt to repeat the feat as it's kind of pointless. That's pretty much the reason why Don is the first to do it. There's plenty of runners who are capable of doing it, but its a lot of effort for something that could be interpreted as pretty pointless.

I am pretty sure you can level the 'pointless' argument at most races, distances and indeed, athletes.

What's the point in running a 5k in 16 minutes? What's the point in running around a large convoluted circle just to clock up the 26.2 miles that is the marathon distance? I could go on and on. Maybe not your intention but your 'pointless' point comes across quite poorly and very questionable.

For me at least, trying something new and challenging is far from 'pointless'. His attitude is one I commend. He has set the benchmark. I guess it's up to someone to challenge his time and achievement.

Enduro

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Maybe.

Takahiro Sunada has a 2:10 marathon PB. That's no slouch and being a few minutes behind the best Kenyans in the marathon doesn't automatically mean he would still be behind them after 100k.

In fact, it's extremly likely that the fastest 100km runners will not be the fastest marathon runners. The fastest marathon runners should be running at their optimal distance. It's likely that someone who is more naturally talented at 100km would be less talented at marathon, and would not be one of the fastest marathon runners.

To spell it out, lets take the "fastest at shorter distance must be fastest at longer distance" fallacy to its logical conclusion:

Usain bolt is the fastest 100m/200m runner -> would wipe the floor with his 400m equivalents if he stepped up to their distances no question.

So now:

Usain bolt is the fastest 400m runner -> would wipe the floor with his 800m equivalents if he stepped up to their distances no question.

which leads us a few steps along this fallacy later (I won't spell it out in detail) to:

Usain bolt is the fastest 0.5 marathon runner -> would wipe the floor with his marathon equivalents if he stepped up to their distances no question.

And on upwards into ultra distances yada yada yada. So can we all just agree that Usain Bolt is the fastest at every distance, no question

Dubgal72

Would it not be slightly more nuanced? Ex Usain Bolt is the fastest - no contest - at 100-200m and would (*probably*) wipe the floor with (*most*) 400m runners but the differential between 1st and 2nd would be comparatively less than at the shorter distances. And so on and so up....

Enduro

dublin runner wrote: »

I am pretty sure you can level the 'pointless' argument at most races, distances and indeed, athletes.

All true, but not what I was trying to say. I've definitely failed to express what I'm trying to say.

dublin runner wrote: »

What's the point in running a 5k in 16 minutes? What's the point in running around a large convoluted circle just to clock up the 26.2 miles that is the marathon distance? I could go on and on. Maybe not your intention but your 'pointless' point comes across quite poorly and very questionable.

Pointless in the sense of setting a timed record for the 150 meter sprint, when the effort involved could be focussed on racing 100m or 200m. Maybe pointless is the wrong word, but hopefully that equivalence makes it clearer what I'm trying to say.

A secondary factor is that ultra running is a discipline where you only get 2 or 3 opportunities a year (at best) to really put in your best performance. Jaysus, I'd much prefer if I was a natural sprinter rather than a natural ultrarunner! Recovery times from racing big ultras hard are huge. If you run a bad ultra race one week you can't just go out a few weeks later and run another one better (not to get your best performance). So if someone wants to put in a good performance, and really measure how well they're going, they'll need to choose and plan their "A" races carefully.

To take "flat" ultras as an example, that would mean targetting standard distance events (50km, 100km, 24 hours, 48 hours, 6 days etc) where there are national records, world records, national championships etc and you can measure youself on internalional rankings, rather than oddball distances (e.g. 50 miles, 100 miles (only really raced in 3 countries), 63 miles, double marathons etc). Things are a little more "fluid" with trail/mountain ultras, but the big iconic races (UTMB, WSER, UTWC) and challenges (Bob Graham round as mentioned above, for example) would be at a similar level of competition/prestige.

dublin runner wrote: »

For me at least, trying something new and challenging is far from 'pointless'. His attitude is one I commend. He has set the benchmark. I guess it's up to someone to challenge his time and achievement.

I'm not knocking his attitude at all. I'm just answering a question asked and trying to put into context as a performance, i.e. "evaluating it's scale as an achievement".

Ron Gomall

I don't see doing the "Wicklow Way out and back" as a pointless exercise, the Wicklow Round had to be established originally by Joe Lalor and Brian Bell doing it for the first time (pointless...) and then others like Enduro coming along and setting a new record for it (not pointless apparently). The Bob Graham round is named after Bob Graham (1889–1966), a Keswick guest-house owner, who in June 1932 broke the Lakeland Fell record by traversing 42 fells within a 24-hour period. The Round was first repeated, in a better time, in 1960 by Alan Heaton (not pointless).

Sometimes it is good to see someone with a passion and a desire to establish something for the first times, having the balls to try and fail (2 years ago) just 50km short. Train, go to Spartathlon and come up short/DNF after 100miles, set aside the disappointment of that, pace DCM for 3.30 then less than 2 weeks later - get up and go out in a storm to close off his own personal challenge of WW out/back.

We should step back and applaud Don for being a pioneer, not giving up on the dream and having the guts/ determination to follow it through. Yes there are races, Don does those too but there are also personal challenges that sometimes become a challenge or inspiration for others.

So whether you get your inspiration from Pheidippides for the marathon, Joe Lalor/Brian Bell for Wicklow round, Bob Graham, or Don Hannon for the WW out and back - these guys should be celebrated for being the first, the leaders rather than the followers. I celebrate and toast their passion and pioneering spirit.

ThisRegard

Ron Gomall wrote: »

the Wicklow Round had to be established originally by Joe Lalor and Brian Bell doing it for the first time (pointless...) ....................
Joe Lalor/Brian Bell for Wicklow round................

Moire Sullivan was the first person to do it successfully.

Joe Lalor and others came up with the concept though (I believe)

Enduro

Ron Gomall wrote: »

I don't see doing the "Wicklow Way out and back" as a pointless exercise, the Wicklow Round had to be established originally by Joe Lalor and Brian Bell doing it for the first time (pointless...) and then others like Enduro coming along and setting a new record for it (not pointless apparently). The Bob Graham round is named after Bob Graham (1889–1966), a Keswick guest-house owner, who in June 1932 broke the Lakeland Fell record by traversing 42 fells within a 24-hour period. The Round was first repeated, in a better time, in 1960 by Alan Heaton (not pointless).

You're factually incorrect about the Wicklow round there. Joe Lalor and Brian bell have never "done" the Wicklow round. They set up as they thought that Ireland should have a BGR equivalent. There was no round or anything like it in Ireland at the time. It was something completely new, not a variation on an already well established route.

And, for reference, I'm prefectly aware of the relative merit of my WR effort. I'm glad I did it, but I'd place it quite a long way down on my list of achievements (even though, much to my own amazement, it still stands as the record).

Ron Gomall wrote: »

Sometimes it is good to see someone with a passion and a desire to establish something for the first times, having the balls to try and fail (2 years ago) just 50km short. Train, go to Spartathlon and come up short/DNF after 100miles, set aside the disappointment of that, pace DCM for 3.30 then less than 2 weeks later - get up and go out in a storm to close off his own personal challenge of WW out/back.

We should step back and applaud Don for being a pioneer, not giving up on the dream and having the guts/ determination to follow it through. Yes there are races, Don does those too but there are also personal challenges that sometimes become a challenge or inspiration for others.

So whether you get your inspiration from Pheidippides for the marathon, Joe Lalor/Brian Bell for Wicklow round, Bob Graham, or Don Hannon for the WW out and back - these guys should be celebrated for being the first, the leaders rather than the followers. I celebrate and toast their passion and pioneering spirit.

Which is all fine. Anyone can make up a route that no-one has done before and run it though. That's easy. Its not actually an achievement in itself. Given enough time pretty much anyone can run any given trail as many times as they like, and probably be the first to do so in most cases.

As I said though, I'm giving my answer for the question which was asked about "evaluating it's scale as an achievement". Maybe you guys don't want an honest answer to that, and we're gonna be the new RSP :eek:

TFBubendorfer

Enduro wrote: »

As I said though, I'm giving my answer for the question which was asked about "evaluating it's scale as an achievement". Maybe you guys don't want an honest answer to that, and we're gonna be the new RSP :eek:

I actually agree with you in as much as winning the Wicklow Way Solo race last year in 14:46 was probably a better performance than running out-and-back in 37+ hrs (he should have gotten Thomas Klimas to chase him again, I suppose ) but calling the entire exercise pointless is a bit harsh.

He obviously wanted to do it, which is all the point one needs.

Who decides what is pointless and what is not anyway? I've been told quite a few times that running around in circles for 24 hours is totally pointless but thankfully I don't give a f*ck what others think.

belcarra

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I actually agree with you in as much as winning the Wicklow Way Solo race last year in 14:46 was probably a better performance than running out-and-back in 37+ hrs (he should have gotten Thomas Klimas to chase him again, I suppose ) but calling the entire exercise pointless is a bit harsh.

He obviously wanted to do it, which is all the point one needs.

Who decides what is pointless and what is not anyway? I've been told quite a few times that running around in circles for 24 hours is totally pointless but thankfully I don't give a f*ck what others think.

To join in with the general tone around these parts I'd just like to "point" out that technically a track is far from a circle.
/pedantry:D

Ron Gomall

Enduro wrote: »

You're factually incorrect about the Wicklow round there. Joe Lalor and Brian bell have never "done" the Wicklow round. They set up as they thought that Ireland should have a BGR equivalent. There was no round or anything like it in Ireland at the time. It was something completely new, not a variation on an already well established route.

And, for reference, I'm prefectly aware of the relative merit of my WR effort. I'm glad I did it, but I'd place it quite a long way down on my list of achievements (even though, much to my own amazement, it still stands as the record).



Which is all fine. Anyone can make up a route that no-one has done before and run it though. That's easy. Its not actually an achievement in itself. Given enough time pretty much anyone can run any given trail as many times as they like, and probably be the first to do so in most cases.

As I said though, I'm giving my answer for the question which was asked about "evaluating it's scale as an achievement". Maybe you guys don't want an honest answer to that, and we're gonna be the new RSP :eek:

My technical incorrectness on the WW round was due to a rushed Google search so I stand corrected, in a different sport I represented Ireland for 18years so understand the lure of competing in known events and chasing numbers/ titles/ places. Easy to benchmark and identity a place in the pecking order if you only look at results.

The WW race & a stand alone effort are apples & oranges (in my opinion), difficult to compare, different motivations & environmental factors (not just the weather) .

No mention of RSP- maybe I'm missing something

Thanks for the background to the round but was only for illustration purposes, glad someone started it as it's aspirational for many mountain runners now.

Djoucer

Great run by Don. Some going.

People attempting the Fastest known time (FKTs) have exploded in popularity recently.

As Enduro says, FKTs are fairly popular in ultra at the moment. It can get a bit ridiculous. The Grand Canyon rim to rim was seen as one of the great trail runs, 24 miles long and 3200 metres in elevation. The FKT on that meant something.

Then the rim to rim to rim came along and that got a bit of publicity.

And now there is the rim to rim to rim to rim. And probably no-one cares.

FKTs are debated fairly regularly amongst the ultra community.

Some FKTs are more impressive than others. The FKT on Kilimanjaro is impressive, rim to rim to rim to rim not so much.

I think Don’s FKT out and back on the Wicklow Way has a lot of merit as it’s a return trip on a defined track. It makes sense.

But I think it’s a bit much to call him a pioneer. That’s just ridiculous. There was no storm last week. It was a bit of rain and wind, AKA November in Ireland.

The first storm of the winter arrives tonight. I think that exaggeration/sycophantry takes away from just how tough the run is without adding mythical storms.

The merits of FKTs can be debated endlessly and whether they mean anything versus race results.

It takes a while for FKT to become established. Some take off, some don’t.

FKT on Wicklow Way will remain more impressive as it’s more established but it was still a fantastic run by Don last weekend.

Ron Gomall

Djoucer wrote: »

Great run by Don. Some going.

People attempting the Fastest known time (FKTs) have exploded in popularity recently.

As Enduro says, FKTs are fairly popular in ultra at the moment. It can get a bit ridiculous. The Grand Canyon rim to rim was seen as one of the great trail runs, 24 miles long and 3200 metres in elevation. The FKT on that meant something.

Then the rim to rim to rim came along and that got a bit of publicity.

And now there is the rim to rim to rim to rim. And probably no-one cares.

FKTs are debated fairly regularly amongst the ultra community.

Some FKTs are more impressive than others. The FKT on Kilimanjaro is impressive, rim to rim to rim to rim not so much.

I think Don’s FKT out and back on the Wicklow Way has a lot of merit as it’s a return trip on a defined track. It makes sense.

But I think it’s a bit much to call him a pioneer. That’s just ridiculous. There was no storm last week. It was a bit of rain and wind, AKA November in Ireland.

The first storm of the winter arrives tonight. I think that exaggeration/sycophantry takes away from just how tough the run is without adding mythical storms.

The merits of FKTs can be debated endlessly and whether they mean anything versus race results.

It takes a while for FKT to become established. Some take off, some don’t.

FKT on Wicklow Way will remain more impressive as it’s more established but it was still a fantastic run by Don last weekend.

Point taken 😎 I like the Killimanjaro one, lived in Tanzania for 15 months, also like the Jornet stuff in FXT and debate is good. Am sure there will be plenty more FXTs in the coming years around Ireland to be discussed.

Enduro

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I actually agree with you in as much as winning the Wicklow Way Solo race last year in 14:46 was probably a better performance than running out-and-back in 37+ hrs (he should have gotten Thomas Klimas to chase him again, I suppose ) but calling the entire exercise pointless is a bit harsh.

He obviously wanted to do it, which is all the point one needs.

Who decides what is pointless and what is not anyway? I've been told quite a few times that running around in circles for 24 hours is totally pointless but thankfully I don't give a f*ck what others think.

I'm not deciding... I'm giving an opionion... with, as I acknowledged above, the wrong terminology. Djoucer has expressed it a lot better than I managed, thankfully.

Enduro

Ron Gomall wrote: »

My technical incorrectness on the WW round was due to a rushed Google search so I stand corrected, in a different sport I represented Ireland for 18years so understand the lure of competing in known events and chasing numbers/ titles/ places. Easy to benchmark and identity a place in the pecking order if you only look at results.

Out of genuine curiosity, which sport was that? Always interesting to see people's backgrounds

Ron Gomall wrote: »

The WW race & a stand alone effort are apples & oranges (in my opinion), difficult to compare, different motivations & environmental factors (not just the weather)

Well, I've done it both ways, and there is very little difference in reality. It's the same course, and it takes the same effort. There are minor differences.

Ron Gomall wrote: »

No mention of RSP- maybe I'm missing something

Runners' Support Page... a facebook page where you get fired if you do anything but shower praise on everybody's run. No reality allowed.

Ron Gomall wrote: »

Thanks for the background to the round but was only for illustration purposes, glad someone started it as it's aspirational for many mountain runners now.

Good! That's the idea behind it... now turn that aspiration into reality

TheGreenMile

Any person who achieves a run of that distance deserves a tip of the hat. Its the equivalent of running Dublin to Cork in a day and a half. Only achieved by the few who make the sacrifices, do what others wont and with a few years of consistent mileage under your belt.
So when someone like Don, who has a great attitude and is nothing but good for the sport of Ultra running in this country, has a good day out, it should be commended. The only thing pointless is the comparing of his achievement to other similar challenges.
In Ireland, we tend to be incapable of accepting a compliment :youtu.be/T013exV1RFg , very reluctant to give a compliment and some very good at self complimenting. Remember when you were in ur bed scratchin ur belly button at 4am on Sat night, Don was clocking miles.
This was no RSP day out.
Well done Don.

kit3

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Any person who achieves a run of that distance deserves a tip of the hat. Its the equivalent of running Dublin to Cork in a day and a half. Only achieved by the few who make the sacrifices, do what others wont and with a few years of consistent mileage under your belt.
So when someone like Don, who has a great attitude and is nothing but good for the sport of Ultra running in this country, has a good day out, it should be commended. The only thing pointless is the comparing of his achievement to other similar challenges.
In Ireland, we tend to be incapable of accepting a compliment :youtu.be/T013exV1RFg , very reluctant to give a compliment and some very good at self complimenting. Remember when you were in ur bed scratchin ur belly button at 4am on Sat night, Don was clocking miles.
This was no RSP day out.
Well done Don.

Well put. I don't know Don at all but find it interesting to see that there has not been one word from him. All the positive comments (very much deserved) have come from others. Quite the opposite to the self-congratulatory RSP style. It seems like a few here know him personally. Perhaps he could be encouraged to write a report of his experience - would be really interested in reading it.

Enduro

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Any person who achieves a run of that distance deserves a tip of the hat. Its the equivalent of running Dublin to Cork in a day and a half. Only achieved by the few who make the sacrifices, do what others wont and with a few years of consistent mileage under your belt.

I disagree with that. Pretty much anyone can run that distance. The difficulty isn't running a distance, its running a distance in a good time. Anyone with the ability to run can run WW, WW out and back, or Dublin - Cork. You just have to give them their required support and allow them to do it at their speed with whatever rests they need along the way. It's not difficult.

Similarly anyone could enter a 24hour race, walk around for a bit to stay with race rules, and get a finishing distance. Technically they'd have finished a 24 hour race. Not difficult.

Or, for a more obvious example, anyone can finish a marathon if you give them enough time to do it.

The difficulty, as with ANY running race/event/challenge is doing it at fast/competive speed. That's what takes the training, the sacrifices etc.

This a reason why ultra-running sometimes gets slagged off... the assumption that ultrarunners just jog/plod around to cover the distance (and if this was the case, they'd be dead right to do so).

TheGreenMile wrote: »

So when someone like Don, who has a great attitude and is nothing but good for the sport of Ultra running in this country, has a good day out, it should be commended. The only thing pointless is the comparing of his achievement to other similar challenges.
In Ireland, we tend to be incapable of accepting a compliment :youtu.be/T013exV1RFg , very reluctant to give a compliment and some very good at self complimenting. Remember when you were in ur bed scratchin ur belly button at 4am on Sat night, Don was clocking miles.
This was no RSP day out.
Well done Don.

For the record, I know Don personally, I very much like the guy and have huge respect for him as an ultra runner (The ultimate respect actually... if I'm racing against him I regard him as a danger man).

I give out plenty of complements. But to get a tip of the hat from me, the performance has to be worthy of it. I won't devalue the currency by going RSP on it and saying that every ultra run is great just because someone ran it.

So, for example, Don's Art O'Neill win this year was a super run. A great time and a well earned worthy win. I was delighted that (a) the performance was of such a high standard and (b) Don was the man to do it. It was Don's performance of the year for me.

Running WW out and back in 37 hours isn't of that standard, in my opinion. That's not knocking Don. That's just my evaluation of it objectively.

kit3

I guess we'll know where this performance sits when someone else takes it on. That's the part I love - that someone saw a challenge & had the balls to take it on - no drama, no medals, seeking no public acknowledgement. Will be interesting to see how the next person fares.