Ultra Discussion Thread

Enduro

Peterx wrote: »

Is 5 day test cricket as compared to 20:20 cricket a good comparison between long distance Ultra racing and your more common (as in the events much more people partake in) one hour race?
I can see you as a good commentator on the 6 day Ultra when it makes it to the Olympics, probably the next time it visits Japan.

You're probably not far off there with the cricket comparison.

Joe takes the win in the end, building up a steady lead on the last night and holding onto it through the morning. Much reduced distance compared to last year, but he got a closer race. If this is cricket do we take the tea break now?

Stablemaster

Enduro wrote: »

And yet we have a poster on this forum with a better 100km PB than him (by 6 seconds!).

Martelleti's weekend in Ireland

Saturday sets Irish parkrun record w/ 14:xx

Sunday wins World Run in Dublin with 74k. No Irish Ultra athlete who has ever worn the green vest would have been near him

Martelleti holds the WR for marathon in a costume 2:28 I think

He also has a 2:16 marathon PB

Safe to say he is a different class

ThisRegard

Stablemaster wrote: »

Martelleti holds the WR for marathon in a costume 2:28 I think

Well that certainly settles if for me. What's the world record for a marathon wearing 2 odd shoes?

kit3

Stablemaster wrote: »

Martelleti's weekend in Ireland

Saturday sets Irish parkrun record w/ 14:xx

Sunday wins World Run in Dublin with 74k. No Irish Ultra athlete who has ever worn the green vest would have been near him

Martelleti holds the WR for marathon in a costume 2:28 I think

He also has a 2:16 marathon PB

Safe to say he is a different class

14.xx 5k & 2.16 Marathon - that's impressive across such diverse distances

Peterx

Randomly enough I can print off Martelleti or Sarah Mulligan's or anyones finishers cert.

Martelleti was 6th in the global rankings and ran a 15 minute 5k on Saturday, he is obviously talented. Whether or not an Irish Person would/could have beaten him is irrelevant really - you can only beat those who show up.

Sarah Mulligan is Irish and did win. Well done to her on the winning of the Irish leg, being Irish is almost irrelevant in a global event.

Enduro

Stablemaster wrote: »

Martelleti's weekend in Ireland

Saturday sets Irish parkrun record w/ 14:xx

Irrelevant to ultrarunning

Stablemaster wrote: »

Sunday wins World Run in Dublin with 74k. No Irish Ultra athlete who has ever worn the green vest would have been near him

I'm glad someone of your expertise is here to let us know. Most people would probably wait for evidence, but thankfully we're now relieved of that burden.

Stablemaster wrote: »

Martelleti holds the WR for marathon in a costume 2:28 I think

Irrelevant to ultrarunning (are you sure you're thinking)

Stablemaster wrote: »

He also has a 2:16 marathon PB

Irrelevant to ultrarunning

Stablemaster wrote: »

Safe to say he is a different class

Absolutely, as long as you base that on completely irrelavant information and completely ignore the actual relevant information.

(If only there was some way one could use some sort of tool to compare his actual ultra distance PBs with the PBs of Irish international ultrarunners. How wonderful that would be. Then you could use those tools to check the actual facts, which might prevent you from posting idiotic comments on public websites by using that tool beforehand... ah well, if only ).

Stablemaster

All fair points. I was merely trying to point out his versatility. Would actually love to see him enter and win an event like Badwater or the Spine or 24 HR WC dressed as Spider-Man

Slogger Jogger

Paddy O'Leary from Bree Co. Wexford did his first 100k trail race in the states at the weekend. He had previously done well in a 50k trail race and a recent Boston marathon was sub 2.40. Anyways, he won the v. hilly 100k in 9:35 which is a great achievement. The only runner under 10 hrs. Results on the www.runcanyons.com website. Will be interesting to see what he targets next as he clearly has a talent for it.

dublin runner

74km on that course was phenomenal running. Have a look at the course and the weather conditions to fully understand his very impressive run.

Has he ran 100km before? No offence to anyone but he is several leagues ahead of anyone on this forum, be it at 5k, marathon or ultra (74km is ultra, right?). I don't have time right now to look into his ultra past. Would be interested to see his times.

Of course his marathon time is relevant to ultra running.

Djoucer

There's plenty of ultra runners better than anyone on the forum.

However Wings for life is a Mickey Mouse race to base that decision on.

He's clearly talented but wings for life win is a bit of craic. Wasn't competitive.

His 100km time is sub 7 hours which I believe is faster than current Irish record.

demfad

dublin runner wrote: »

74km on that course was phenomenal running. Have a look at the course and the weather conditions to fully understand his very impressive run.

Has he ran 100km before? No offence to anyone but he is several leagues ahead of anyone on this forum, be it at 5k, marathon or ultra (74km is ultra, right?). I don't have time right now to look into his ultra past. Would be interested to see his times.

Of course his marathon time is relevant to ultra running.

I think you need to get to know your fellow boardsies better before posting that. We have at least one poster who's 5k pb is around 14:30, one who has run 2:17 for the marathon and one with a superior time in 100k to him. (apparently, see a few posts back)
Ultra is a full range of distances so you'd need to be more specific there. He looks like an endurance based marathoner so 100k might be his limit.
Enduro could probably do two Spine races by the time he managed one.

Can you give your estimation of what his 74km flat time would have been so we can get a realistic evaluation of his performance?

dublin runner

I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about but fairly sure they have not posted in a considerable time and/or are regular contributors. Anyway.

I have no idea what his time would equate to but he jogged the first section to Bray and took off. The course was brutal so I could only imagine he would have gotten 80km+ on a decent course.

I think it would be fair to say that if he approached most distances (and trained specifically) he would destroy most of the field over a lot of ultra distances. He is just one of many 2.16 runners out there of course. In truth most don't bother ultra because they see the marathon and shorter distances as the acid test. That's another argument though.

What I do know is that my regard for ultra runners went up a lot after running through the marathon distance on Sunday. Now, I wasn't trained for it but someday I will and it'll be interesting to test my theory of speed first, endurance second to the test. Most go to the marathon too early, like me, and many go to ultra way too early.

demfad

dublin runner wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about but fairly sure they have not posted in a considerable time and/or are regular contributors. Anyway.

I have no idea what his time would equate to but he jogged the first section to Bray and took off. The course was brutal so I could only imagine he would have gotten 80km+ on a decent course.

I think it would be fair to say that if he approached most distances (and trained specifically) he would destroy most of the field over a lot of ultra distances. He is just one of many 2.16 runners out there of course. In truth most don't bother ultra because they see the marathon and shorter distances as the acid test. That's another argument though.

What I do know is that my regard for ultra runners went up a lot after running through the marathon distance on Sunday. Now, I wasn't trained for it but someday I will and it'll be interesting to test my theory of speed first, endurance second to the test. Most go to the marathon too early, like me, and many go to ultra way too early.

But what does 80km actually mean? What would his ave speed be to run this distance? You need to know this to evaluate his performance. You need this knowledge to state that he specifically would destroy any field he trained for. If his 74km time is relatively poorer in relation to his marathon time then he certainly would not destroy any field he trained for. Edit: not on this evidence at least

dublin runner

demfad wrote:

But what does 80km actually mean? What would his ave speed be to run this distance? You need to know this to evaluate his performance. You need this knowledge to state that he specifically would destroy any field he trained for. If his 74km time is relatively poorer in relation to his marathon time then he certainly would not destroy any field he trained for. Edit: not on this evidence at least

Well compared to Steve Way he did well I guess. Different courses obviously.

All conjucture whether he would do well in differing ultra races of course. Interesting discussion point.

TFBubendorfer

Paul Martelletti is a phenomenal runner. I was there in Belfast 2 years ago when he ran 6:57:22 for 100k, the fastest 100k time ever in Ireland. The fact that he ran it on a track, constantly weaving around other runners makes it even more impressive - it must have added a fair amount of extra, uncredited distance.

He still looked as fresh as a daisy when he sprinted his last couple of laps!

He subsequently came 19th in the World Championships.

TFBubendorfer

dublin runner wrote: »

Well compared to Steve Way he did well I guess. Different courses obviously.

All conjucture whether he would do well in differing ultra races of course. Interesting discussion point.

Paul Martelletti and Steve Way are good friends, as well as GB team mates. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul chose to run in Dublin specifically so that he and Steve would both be able to win their respective races.

demfad

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Paul Martelletti is a phenomenal runner. I was there in Belfast 2 years ago when he ran 6:57:22 for 100k, the fastest 100k time ever in Ireland. The fact that he ran it on a track, constantly weaving around other runners makes it even more impressive - it must have added a fair amount of extra, uncredited distance.

He still looked as fresh as a daisy when he sprinted his last couple of laps!

He subsequently came 19th in the World Championships.

He's certainly a top runner. Not leagues ahead of anyone in Ireland though, around par with boards A/Rs best from 5k to marathon, and clearly weaker (unproven at best) to boardsies at long Ultras.

dublin runner

TFBubendorfer wrote:

Paul Martelletti and Steve Way are good friends, as well as GB team mates. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul chose to run in Dublin specifically so that he and Steve would both be able to win their respective races.

Exactly my thoughts! If nothing else, I love his approach to running. Does things his own way.

You are better places than me so what do think he could do on a decent course in the Wings? I know it's a bit of a novelty race but in many ways it's bring the idea if ultra running to the masses. Is it frowned apon by some or is it viewed positively by the ultra community? Maybe the diehards look at it differently than I do.

If you think about it, the big screen was showcasing the world leader by the time I got back. I thought it was great to see the idea of ultra running being shown to the general public. Can only do good in my book for the sport.

kit3

demfad wrote: »

I think you need to get to know your fellow boardsies better before posting that. We have at least one poster who's 5k pb is around 14:30, one who has run 2:17 for the marathon

Without meaning to take anything from the A/R posters you are citing (phenomenal times), is there anyone who has done both ? That's the part that I find most interesting, to be able to compete at that level over a range of distances

TFBubendorfer

dublin runner wrote: »

You are better places than me so what do think he could do on a decent course in the Wings? I know it's a bit of a novelty race but in many ways it's bring the idea if ultra running to the masses. Is it frowned apon by some or is it viewed positively by the ultra community? Maybe the diehards look at it differently than I do.

I didn't hear it mentioned a lot; most runners would regard it as a fun novelty run I suppose.

The performances at the top show that it is clearly being taken seriously by some. 88k in 5:30 is almost exactly 6 minutes per mile. :eek: Pretty much the pace for the 100k world record for 90% of the distance.

Stablemaster

all this has just given food for thought . Makes me realise that while gunning for the Irish 24 HR title I'd be facing club runners with mostly 2:50ish marathon bests while at the world class level these guys are very serious operators.

It amazes me though that while the UK can field the likes of Steve Way, our international teams consist of 2:4x to 2:5x marathoners - the obvious exception being UP who really is a different class to most of the lads in the green vest past 50k!

Apples and oranges really

Djoucer

Stablemaster wrote: »

all this has just given food for thought . Makes me realise that while gunning for the Irish 24 HR title I'd be facing club runners with mostly 2:50ish marathon bests while at the world class level these guys are very serious operators.

It amazes me though that while the UK can field the likes of Steve Way, our international teams consist of 2:4x to 2:5x marathoners - the obvious exception being UP who really is a different class to most of the lads in the green vest past 50k!

Apples and oranges really

That's Irish athletics in general. Not specific to ultras. Amazing what happens when a country invests in athletics.

Steve Way is phenomenal.

RacoonQueen

demfad wrote: »

He's certainly a top runner. Not leagues ahead of anyone in Ireland though, around par with boards A/Rs best from 5k to marathon, and clearly weaker (unproven at best) to boardsies at long Ultras.

Why are you comparing him to boardsies?

Stablemaster

Maybe a little O/T but what is the standard of birds at this kind of thing? I rarely here much about them. Who is the most dominant girl Ultra Runner and what are her times like?

tang1

Stablemaster wrote: »

Maybe a little O/T but what is the standard of birds at this kind of thing? I rarely here much about them. Who is the most dominant girl Ultra Runner and what are her times like?

Ruthann Sheahan, better than most Irish male ultra runners.

demfad

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Why are you comparing him to boardsies?

That was the context of the conversation I think. The below was the first (genuine) post on it.

dublin runner wrote: »

74km on that course was phenomenal running. Have a look at the course and the weather conditions to fully understand his very impressive run.

Has he ran 100km before? No offence to anyone but he is several leagues ahead of anyone on this forum, be it at 5k, marathon or ultra (74km is ultra, right?). I don't have time right now to look into his ultra past. Would be interested to see his times.

Of course his marathon time is relevant to ultra running.

Chivito550

tang1 wrote: »

Ruthann Sheahan, better than most Irish male ultra runners.

Does that not say it all about the depth in men's ultra running? The best females in Ireland in track events wouldn't even come close to getting out of a heat in the men's Irish national championships. In fact the best women in the world like Allyson Felix wouldn't even get out of an Irish national championships heat.

Stablemaster

Chivito550 wrote: »

Does that not say it all about the depth in men's ultra running? The best females in Ireland in track events wouldn't even come close to getting out of a heat in the men's Irish national championships. In fact the best women in the world like Allyson Felix wouldn't even get out of an Irish national championships heat.

The one exception to that would be Paula Radcliffe. Her WR would have her top 25 in last men's WC. Funny that.

Djoucer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Does that not say it all about the depth in men's ultra running? The best females in Ireland in track events wouldn't even come close to getting out of a heat in the men's Irish national championships. In fact the best women in the world like Allyson Felix wouldn't even get out of an Irish national championships heat.

I think you will find that a few people would disagree with ruthann being better than top Irish men. Most Irish men? Sure. Same way Fionnuala is better than most Irish men.

So it's difficult to extrapolate yet another tiresome debate on the depth of ultra running. It is what it is regardless of hypothetical situations.

As an aside, women tend to do very well in ultras. Similar in the way that Chrissie Wellington was beating some top class men, there's a a couple of female ultra runners that put in incredible performances.

Chivito550

Djoucer wrote: »

I think you will find that a few people would disagree with ruthann being better than top Irish men. Most Irish men? Sure. Same way Fionnuala is better than most Irish men.

So it's difficult to extrapolate yet another tiresome debate on the depth of ultra running. It is what it is regardless of hypothetical situations.

As an aside, women tend to do very well in ultras. Similar in the way that Chrissie Wellington was beating some top class men, there's a a couple of female ultra runners that put in incredible performances.

How is Fionnuala better than most Irish men. She has never broken 15 mins. She'd be nowhere in a national championship B race even.