How bad are the Gardai and what do we do about it?

Dont call me Shirley

I know that this issue has been covered to some degree on AH in the past but I saw something during the week that frankly really shocked me. I was in Court supporting a friend and in the middle of the trial a guard was called up to give evidence on a procedural issue. When called, he just bare faced out and out lied to the judge. In a way it was a relatively minor issue in the case but had he told the truth it could have been significant. Didn't effect the outcome from my perspective, as the side I was supporting was still successful but what struck me was just how everyday and normal it seemed to him. There was five or six of us there who knew he just told a whopper (and he knew we did), there was a colleague of his there who would also have known it wasn't the truth, and I suspect a few more of his colleagues who were around would also have known. Still up he got, put his hand on the bible and brazenly lied.

I have a three part question to the good folk of AH a) have you ever witnessed or known of Garda malpractice, corruption or dishonesty like this, if so please share (usual rules, no names etc) b) how much faith do you have in our Guards (see poll) and c) if things are as bad as I feel they are what the hell do we do about it???

I suppose I had buried my head in the sand a little in relation to all that has come out about the Gardai over the last few years but I have to say this really opened my eyes. I can see now how those things went on in West Cork, Donegal and with the whistleblowers when in my own back yard a guard can get up on the stand and lie in front of ten or so people who know he's lying without batting an eyelid.

anncoates

Dunno Shirley.

minidazzler

The first indication that someone probably shouldn't be a Garda, is that they want to be a Garda. It's a profession that breeds corruption.

wazky

Glorified tv licence inspectors!

Awkward Badger

I think they are a group that have a tough job, dealing with some pretty difficult things that are not very straightforward to resolve. Like anything else you're gonna get a few bad eggs and a few numpties. But in general to me they seem like they do reasonably well all things considered.

NipNip

They're as dishonest as bejaysus from my limited experience! I have encountered an odd half-daycent one, but they're the exception rather than the rule. Just my experience.

kneemos

AH has truely gone to ****.

Slicemeister

Before I vote OP, option D " time to act". What does this mean?

Awkward Badger

Slicemeister wrote: »

Before I vote OP, option D " time to act". What does this mean?

Stick it to the man at any available opportunity I take it.

Awkward Badger

kneemos wrote: »

AH has truely gone to ****.

Yeah it's not the shining light it once was....

major bill

Had plenty of dealings with them down the years and heres what I find about them.

1. If you give them the slightest reason to treat you like dirt they will
2. If you go about your business like the majority of people they will leave you alone.

Slicemeister

Pugsly wrote: »

Stick it to the man at any available opportunity I take it.

Yeah, fcuik you Guards.





Like that?

Dont call me Shirley

wazky wrote: »

Glorified tv license inspectors!

Unfortunately they've the power to (and have) destroyed lives. Have to say I would probably previously been in the few bad eggs category. I've known some Guards who I thought were quite nice people, and maybe many of these people are in their private lives, but it was just so worrying to see brazen dishonesty being so everyday and normal for a group of Guards.

I suppose we all like to think we live in a nice safe world. What this week made me see is that we don't. We live in a country where, God forbid, if we were in the wrong place, wrong time, wrong situation the people who our taxes pay to protect us, would lie, cheat and deceive without a thought. Our well-being and safety meaning nothing in comparison to their dishonesty, self-interest or whatever twisted motivations this organisation has fostered.

Awkward Badger

Slicemeister wrote: »

Yeah, fcuik you Guards.





Like that?

Exactly. If that doesn't set things right I don't know what will.

Piliger

A handful of bad eggs but the vast majority are brilliant.

Dont call me Shirley

Slicemeister wrote: »

Before I vote OP, option D " time to act". What does this mean?

I really don't know. What have other countries done to tackle a culture of corruption, has it been successful? What are our options?

Stheno

major bill wrote: »

Had plenty of dealings with them down the years and heres what I find about them.

1. If you give them the slightest reason to treat you like dirt they will
2. If you go about your business like the majority of people they will leave you alone.

Agree with two, rarely interact with the Gardai, apart from form signing etc, but treating them with courtesy has always helped imo.

I've an ex who was in the police in the UK and the stories he told of the pure ****e he encountered day to day was horrific

Actually about 9 years ago I'd a summons for non display of tax. Rang the cop in question, agreed I'd produce proof in a station of my choosing (suited to my location) and summons went away.

Bit of decency goes a long way

c_man

I say we rise up. Infuriated by the constant "Criminal getting an easy sentence" AH threads, I'm of the opinion that we should disband the Gardai and instead have justice administered by Judge Dredd style law.

Son0vagun

Gardaí are only as bad as the criminals their catching. We should arm the Gardaí, and give the criminal bullet proof vests!

AndonHandon

I work in law and have dealt with them on the civil and criminal side. My opinion is that they do an excellent job with the resources they are given.

You will always hear stories of a rude garda or a garda who seemed to take the pIss (posing for a photo with folk on a night out, letting a RTA go for someone charming them) and the inevitable corrupt garda. But when do we hear of them being rewarded for little things like sending a car around to an estate where a dodgy character was reported, helping a drunk person into a taxi for their own good or even giving directions to a lost civilian?

We all need to realise that the GardaI depend on the community for information and support, they don't operate in isolation to us, they maintain the invisible barriers (laws) that we as a society have decided are necessary for all of us to live safe and comfortable lives.

I hope only a few people actually have disdain for the gardai.

LETHAL LADY

What happened to cause the trial in the first place OP?

Karl Stein

They should be made wear cameras so that anything they present in court can be backed with actual evidence.

The technology is there. Use it.

dxhound2005

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

What happened to cause the trial in the first place OP?

There was a procedural issue which was only minor but could have been significant. That's the way I read it.

Stheno

Karl Stein wrote: »

They should be made wear cameras so that anything they present in court can be backed with actual evidence.

The technology is there. Use it.

Agreed let them live by their actions, I suspect 99.99% are lawful

Karl Stein

AndonHandon wrote: »

when do we hear of them being rewarded for little things like sending a car around to an estate where a dodgy character was reported, helping a drunk person into a taxi for their own good or even giving directions to a lost civilian?

Wait a sec.. aren't those the things cops are supposed to do and get paid for?

Davarus Walrus

The vast majority of the Gardaí are doing a fine job under difficult circumstances.

One of the most important accomplishments of the first Government was the establishment of a fine police force; especially considering the circumstances we found ourselves in that initial post-independence era. It has served us well I think.

Much of the vitriol these days towards the force is online. It's an easy escape avenue for various fringe republicans, freeman loons, angry young men and cranks to take cheap potshots at a body that really does a pretty good job considering the circumstances. Reform is always needed in most organisations. The Gardaí are no different.

Dont call me Shirley

AndonHandon wrote: »

You will always hear stories of a rude garda or a garda who seemed to take the pIss (posing for a photo with folk on a night out, letting a RTA go for someone charming them) and the inevitable corrupt garda. But when do we hear of them being rewarded for little things like sending a car around to an estate where a dodgy character was reported, helping a drunk person into a taxi for their own good or even giving directions to a lost civilian?

Years and years back I worked in the charity sector in a difficult setting. People would always say what great work we did, it was a vocation, how patient and kind we were etc. Those everyday things were our job and we were paid for it.

What really mattered and had the potential to cause huge suffering was whether or not we were abusive/negligent when we could get away with it, and would we report such practise if we saw it.

We follow that comparison to the Gardai, I think they'd fail on both counts.

LETHAL LADY

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There was a procedural issue which was only minor but could have been significant. That's the way I read it.

Just meant it must have been a serious issue to go to trial in the first place and also I'm a nosey cow.

Conmaicne Mara

Have had more contact with them than I'd like, found when going to them plenty of disinterest, lack of follow up, wrong information. With others have seen one sided reporting of "facts", changed reports. There's no doubt it's a tough job, but it's a service too and unfortunately there's quite a bit of "Irish service culture attitude" in it, or in laymans terms, **** off and leave me to my tea and biscuits.

pragmatic1

The vast majority are good people. But as the saying goes, power corrupts. The types of people that are drawn to holding positions of power also doesn't rest easy with me.

Being from Donegal I've also heard some very sinister things about a few gardai and witnessed some misconduct personally.

On the whole though, they're decent folk doing a very hard job.

Dont call me Shirley

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

What happened to cause the trial in the first place OP?

Relevance? Is it ok to lie in some trials and not others?

I'm not going to say for two reasons. A, I don't want the thread to get misdirected into no smoke without fire territory and B, haven't you heard big brother is watching?:eek:

Einhard

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them, or something similar. Now, I realise that even the most perfectly innocent of people could be ensnared by a corrupt cop, but seriously, if your prelude to condenmnation of the guards involves mention of your previous experiences of them, maybe we'd all be better off if you took a long, hard look at yourself rather than the people who caught you doing whatever it was you were doing.

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

Temptamperu

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

LETHAL LADY

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

Relevance? Is it ok to lie in some trials and not others?

I'm not going to say for two reasons. A, I don't want the thread to get misdirected into no smoke without fire territory and B, haven't you heard big brother is watching?:eek:

I'm not looking for the exact details of the trial, just curious as to how you know he/she lied. Were you a witness to what happened originally?

dxhound2005

Temptamperu wrote: »

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

Get a solicitor.

Einhard

Temptamperu wrote: »

Just this week too, me sister was in court and the gard told different times, different details and basically lied about stuff he even kinda downplayed what actually happened. But what can you do?

Why was your sister in court? No offence, but I'm a tad cynical when people under criminal investigation complain about the guards.

Karl Stein

Einhard wrote: »

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them

The last time I had to deal with a Guard he was an ignorant bastard and I found it very hard to hold my tongue. My crime? Sitting in my car talking to a friend I'd just dropped home.

On the whole though I'd say I'd rather have to deal with the Gardai than any other police service in Europe.

Temptamperu

Einhard wrote: »

Why was your sister in court? No offence, but I'm a tad cynical when people under criminal investigation complain about the guards.

arson, not her, her house.

keith16

I think the Police force in this country does a spectacular job considering:

- They are unarmed
- Not supported by the judiciary
- Incapable Senior Management
- Utterly dysfunctional supervisory entities
- Held in utter contempt by large sections of the public (who never have any dealings with them)
- A fundamental misunderstanding from that same public as to the actual function of the force
- Under-resourced

Thankfully I have had little dealings with them, but have always found them to be pleasant. There are much worse in Western Europe.

Dont call me Shirley

Einhard wrote: »

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

Never been arrested myself. Never been involved in criminal activity, just a regular concerned taxpayer. Not an angry young man or political radical either.

Lets throw a hypothetical situation out there that could affect any of us. Lets suppose you had a teenage child who was beaten up outside school or a disco and were still being seriously threatened by the perpetrator. Your child becomes anxious, depressed, perhaps even suicidal as a result.

You go to the gardai of course. What if the perpetrator or there parents had connections with the guards and could 'pull a stroke'? What if they were useful informants? What if they were dealers and if a garda didn't want to ruin a career defining bust because of your child? What if they had some evidence of garda corruption? What if they just weren't arsed because it's effort?

Here we have a hypothetical example where through no fault of our own we rely on a sound and honest police force to, not have great damage inflicted upon our family.

My belief is that in this hypothetical situation, if the well-being and safety of my family, in the slightest way, came in conflict with the self-interests of a guard or the gardai, i'd be pushed aside without the batting of an eyelid.

Einhard

Karl Stein wrote: »

The last time I had to deal with a Guard he was an ignorant bastard and I found it very hard to hold my tongue. My crime? Sitting in my car talking to a friend I'd just dropped home.

On the whole though I'd say I'd rather have to deal with the Gardai than any other police service in Europe.

Temptamperu wrote: »

arson, not her, her house.

Now that's fair enough, and I don't want to come across as questioning anyone who has an issue with the guards. There are assholes in every organisation, and maybe there are more assholes in AGS than in other police forces. I don't know.

However, I do know that neither I nor any of my friends have ever had a serious run in/encounter with the guards. And anyone I know that has, has been involved in some form of criminality. I know people who loudly proclaim their hatred of AGS, and their conviction that AGS is corrupt etc. The thing is, all of them have convictions for drug dealing, petty violence etc...

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

Dont call me Shirley

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I'm not looking for the exact details of the trial, just curious as to how you know he/she lied. Were you a witness to what happened originally?

Yes. Sorry for not divulging further. Just wary of going into specifics.

Conmaicne Mara

Einhard wrote: »

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

I've never been arrested, cautioned or anything else either.

Canis Lupus

All I was doing was kicking wing mirrors off cars at 3am whilst blind drunk.... but the gardai are nothing but corrupt pigs in my dealings with them etc etc etc.

Dont call me Shirley

Canis Lupus wrote: »

All I was doing was kicking wing mirrors off cars at 3am whilst blind drunk.... but the gardai are nothing but corrupt pigs in my dealings with them etc etc etc.

I was only doing 90 in a 50 zone. My mates a guard and I was late for work etc etc etc.

crockholm

IME about 75 % negative.Met far too many of them who thought that their Garda ID was a discount brochure

Baron Kurtz

minidazzler wrote: »

The first indication that someone probably shouldn't be a Garda, is that they want to be a Garda. It's a profession that breeds corruption.

Fierce lazy. Fierce lazy. Breeding. Corruption. Fierce lazy indeed. Those dem der jeeeerrrbssss...

keith16

Dont call me Shirley wrote: »

Lets throw a hypothetical situation out there....

You go to the gardai of course. What if the perpetrator or there parents had connections with the guards and could 'pull a stroke'? What if they were useful informants? What if they were dealers and if a garda didn't want to ruin a career defining bust because of your child? What if they had some evidence of garda corruption? What if they just weren't arsed because it's effort?

Here we have an example

What a load of absolute tosh. You start out by describing it as a hypothetical situation and by the end of your rambling it's an "example"?

GTFO.

Temptamperu

Einhard wrote: »

Now that's fair enough, and I don't want to come across as questioning anyone who has an issue with the guards. There are assholes in every organisation, and maybe there are more assholes in AGS than in other police forces. I don't know.

However, I do know that neither I nor any of my friends have ever had a serious run in/encounter with the guards. And anyone I know that has, has been involved in some form of criminality. I know people who loudly proclaim their hatred of AGS, and their conviction that AGS is corrupt etc. The thing is, all of them have convictions for drug dealing, petty violence etc...

So when I see people condemn the guards, especially when mentioning their experiences with them, I tend to be a tad skeptical.

Ive never had a problem with them either, I live in tallaght me whole life and have only really had this to go by, ive never even been searched. Its just he talked about the fire as like it was a little thing but the whole house was destroyed. The scum who did it lit it at 2 in the morning when me sister and nephew were in bed but the gard never mentioned that.

Dont call me Shirley

keith16 wrote: »

What a load of absolute tosh. You start out by describing it as a hypothetical situation and by the end of your rambling it's an "example"?

GTFO.

It's a hypothetical example??? Seriously, I thought that was quite explicit. And it's a very legitimate form of reasonable debate, surely?

major bill

Einhard wrote: »

This thread is only on page two, and already there's a few posts criticising the guards from people who admit they've had run ins with them, or something similar. Now, I realise that even the most perfectly innocent of people could be ensnared by a corrupt cop, but seriously, if your prelude to condenmnation of the guards involves mention of your previous experiences of them, maybe we'd all be better off if you took a long, hard look at yourself rather than the people who caught you doing whatever it was you were doing.

Seriously, I was never an angel, but I was never arrested by the guards. If you were, maybe, just maybe, it was your fault, and not theirs?

I had a very bad experience with them when I was 17 so my opinion was tainted for years, I was beaten up on my way home one night in an unprovoked attack, no fault of my own just in the wrong place at the wrong time, I managed to get away from my attacker (Much older and bigger) and run away, the gards drove by me and stopped, I thought thank god im safe, what happened next was shocking, I was told to get in the car and shut my mouth, When asked what i done I was told to shut up, apparently I knew what i did, I was driven at fast speed to a car that had been burnt out,

I pleaded my innocence on the journey to be told to shut my mouth, when pulled up along side the burnt out vehicle another Garda car lay parallel , my window was rolled down and a gard in the other car identified me as the thug in the stolen vehicle. I pleaded my innocence once more and eventually brought them to a house I had been in that night, It was only then when a witness said I was there all night did they accept my innocence and only then did they offer to take me to hospital (Which i refused) as my face was ina heap from the kicks to the head i received.

Imagine what would have happened if that had of went to court, I'd have been locked up for something I didn't do all because a Gard said I did it, My only crime that night was wearing a tracksuit whilst running away from a Psycho.

I got an apology off the station sergent the next day but the damage was done. I tried not to tar every gard in a bad light after that incident as out of the 3 gards in the car that night the 1 in the back was fairly sound, My only worry is that his attitude over time will become like the 2 ****ers in the front.

Thought I would share that story, I understand the job at hand is tough and can be very dangerous but far too many of them are out of touch with people in the community which does nothing for peoples trust in them.