Superintendents declared we are not allowed to use the toilets during exams?

kn2k10

I'm in a Gym and there are 3 exam groups, with 3 superintendents.

One of them announced just before the Geography exam that we are no longer allowed to use the toilets during the course of our exams as it is too "disruptive".

They said they were being lenient with us for the first few days.


What are my rights?
I view this as insulting and I know it's going to impact me for the rest of my exams knowing I have to deal with this basically as an anxiety pressure knowing that if I really am going to need to go to the toilet, I won't be allowed.

3 hours in a freaking room, I mean come on. Anyone would piss themselves.

jamesbondings

kn2k10 wrote: »

I'm in a Gym and there are 3 exam groups, with 3 superintendents.

One of them announced just before the Geography exam that we are no longer allowed to use the toilets during the course of our exams as it is too "disruptive".

They said they were being lenient with us for the first few days.


What are my rights?
I view this as insulting and I know it's going to impact me for the rest of my exams knowing I have to deal with this basically as an anxiety pressure knowing that if I really am going to need to go to the toilet, I won't be allowed.

3 hours in a freaking room, I mean come on. Anyone would piss themselves.

I dunno how you would deal with this but personally something that's going to effect you directly in terms of results (leaving exams early so you can use the toilet, or even feeling under pressure to finish up) is unacceptable. I would go straight to the principal and if he/she doesn't take it seriously through you maybe get a parent to speak to them?
Seems really harsh to be fair.... I went back to do the leaving cert as an adult and one of the lads used to leave to use the toilet and instead he would go for a smoke.... They copped on but didn't stop anyone from using the toilet...... Hope it gets sorted for ya!

Mr Pseudonym

kn2k10 wrote: »

I'm in a Gym and there are 3 exam groups, with 3 superintendents.

One of them announced just before the Geography exam that we are no longer allowed to use the toilets during the course of our exams as it is too "disruptive".

They said they were being lenient with us for the first few days.


What are my rights?
I view this as insulting and I know it's going to impact me for the rest of my exams knowing I have to deal with this basically as an anxiety pressure knowing that if I really am going to need to go to the toilet, I won't be allowed.

3 hours in a freaking room, I mean come on. Anyone would piss themselves.

Wow, it's remarkable that anyone would think it legitimate to prevent someone going to the toilet.

This is the only thing I could find:

"A candidate may not be permitted to leave the hall and return during the examination period unless the Superintendent is satisfied that the candidate's need to leave the hall is genuine, (e.g. because of illness, urgent need to visit the toilet, etc.). A candidate who leaves the hall during any period of examination shall not be re-admitted during that period unless the candidate has been in the care of a representative of the school authority or, failing that, in the care of the Attendant during the entire period of the absence."

Conduct of Candidates During Examinations | SEC

Tbh, I'm quite shocked that an SEC document would indicate that a student's need to use the toilet must be "urgent". But, from that, it is clear that you must be accompanied. If you need to go, and the Superintendent refuses to let you, shove your script into his hand (ie make sure it's in his possession), and then drag the student attendant with you to the toilets. If, when you get back, he refuses to give you the script, emphasise that you were accompanied to the toilet and implore that he allow you to continue. Were he not to, this is a story that would be covered in national media.

If I were you, I would try to contact someone over the weekend within the SEC to clarify the situation. Even if you can get someone to say in an e-mail that it is improper, that greatly strengthens your hand. I would get as many people together when you next have an exam and protest about the ban (if you're brave, even threaten a boycott).

Mr Pseudonym

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

Wow, it's remarkable that anyone would think it legitimate to prevent someone going to the toilet.

This is the only thing I could find:

"A candidate may not be permitted to leave the hall and return during the examination period unless the Superintendent is satisfied that the candidate's need to leave the hall is genuine, (e.g. because of illness, urgent need to visit the toilet, etc.). A candidate who leaves the hall during any period of examination shall not be re-admitted during that period unless the candidate has been in the care of a representative of the school authority or, failing that, in the care of the Attendant during the entire period of the absence."

Conduct of Candidates During Examinations | SEC

Tbh, I'm quite shocked that an SEC document would indicate that a student's need to use the toilet must be "urgent". But, from that, it is clear that you must be accompanied. If you need to go, and the Superintendent refuses to let you, shove your script into his hand (ie make sure it's in his possession), and then drag the student attendant with you to the toilets. If, when you get back, he refuses to give you the script, emphasise that you were accompanied to the toilet and implore that he allow you to continue. Were he not to, this is a story that would be covered in national media.

If I were you, I would try to contact someone over the weekend within the SEC to clarify the situation. Even if you can get someone to say in an e-mail that it is improper, that greatly strengthens your hand. I would get as many people together when you next have an exam and protest about the ban (if you're brave, even threaten a boycott).

Lol! I repeated the LC in an exam centre that wasn't my school, hence my advice was a little wayward. Having read jamesbondings' comment, I agree that you should speak to your principal before threatening boycott! But, I would still contact the SEC over the weekend.

evolving_doors

Naa he can't do that. At most he can request that you can't go at first half hour and last ten minutes... And even then he can't refuse.

MikeSD

Loads of people go in ours. The superintendant said, "This is not on!"
Personally, I try to avoid going myself because it unsettles me.
We have a guy outside that walks with you to toilets.

mrkiscool2

Technically it is a violation of human rights. Most exam centres will have attendants specifically paid to escort you to and from the bathroom (amongst other duties). In college it is the same, the attendants will even check bathrooms to ensure you can't cheat. As a previous user said the superintendent can try to insist that you don't go in the first half hour or last 15 minutes but if you gotta go you gotta go. Report it to your principal and if that doesn't work file a complaint to the State Examinations Commission.

seavill

Ok a couple of things. Firstly in reality the majority of people would be able to sit through an exam without needing to go especially if you don't drink massive amounts in the hour before the exam and go to the toilet before staring the exam.
Secondly you have more important things to have on your mind apart from the possibility that you might at some stage need to go to the toilet.

Loads of people going constantly can be very disruptive and from experience you may find that people have complained about t this to the examiner.

Saying all that he still shouldn't be preventing anyone from going to the toilet. I would guess that it was a bit of a bluff on his part to try stop the amount that is going. I would guess that if you needed to go and called him he would let you despite what he said.

Do not follow the advice of mr pseudonym about shoving the paper in the examiners hand and leaving anyway this is again terrible advice. What will you do if he doesn't let you back in. You won't have a leg to stand on if the examiner sticks to his guns and quotes back the rules the he quoted above.

As I said I really think this us a bluff to stop the large numbers going. I wouldn't let it bother and stress you out. Concentrate on your studies. On Monday I would mention it to the principal and explain that you are a little bothered by it. I would personally also speak with the examiner on my own and just explain things nicely. I can guarantee it won't be a big issue

spurious

The main problem is the huge centre.

If the school had been a bit more organised there would have been three centres, which is what the SEC have allowed for, given that there are three superintendents.

I would be really annoyed if I was an LC student and had to put up with first the Foundation, then the OL JC, then the HL JC, then the OL LC students all scraping chairs and leaving the exam, not to mention the 'I need to go to the toilet' brigade.

Three hours is not an excessive time for someone without some sort of medical condition to go without going to the toilet.

I would agree with seavill, the superintendent was probably making a point. I hope he/she puts in their report that such a large combined centre is a disaster.

Zed Bank

spurious wrote: »

The main problem is the huge centre.

If the school had been a bit more organised there would have been three centres, which is what the SEC have allowed for, given that there are three superintendents.

I would be really annoyed if I was an LC student and had to put up with first the Foundation, then the OL JC, then the HL JC, then the OL LC students all scraping chairs and leaving the exam, not to mention the 'I need to go to the toilet' brigade.

Three hours is not an excessive time for someone without some sort of medical condition to go without going to the toilet.

I would agree with seavill, the superintendent was probably making a point. I hope he/she puts in their report that such a large combined centre is a disaster.

You seem to look down on foundation and ordinary level? Higher level students have bodily functions too.

There's no such thing as the "I need to go to the toilet brigade" believe it or not in a 3 hour exam, people are bound to need the toilet, we are not robots.

spurious

Zed Bank wrote: »

You seem to look down on foundation and ordinary level? Higher level students have bodily functions too.

There's no such thing as the "I need to go to the toilet brigade" believe it or not in a 3 hour exam, people are bound to need the toilet, we are not robots.

How do I look down on FL and OL? Their exams finish earlier, which is the point I was making - different finishing times mean scraping chairs and disruption at different times.

There is very much a 'need to go to the toilet' brigade. Anyone who has ever supervised an exam will tell you the same. One asks and then a number follow.

Zed Bank

spurious wrote: »

How do I look down on FL and OL? Their exams finish earlier, which is the point I was making - different finishing times mean scraping chairs and disruption at different times.

There is very much a 'need to go to the toilet' brigade. Anyone who has ever supervised an exam will tell you the same. One asks and then a number follow.

But maybe people have a legitimate need, 3 hours sitting in an exam hall coupled with the pressure/anxiety.

spurious

Zed Bank wrote: »

But maybe people have a legitimate need, 3 hours sitting in an exam hall coupled with the pressure/anxiety.

Absolutely and that is at the superintendent's discretion. As the OP described, the exam centre is very unsuitable and as seavill said, I'd say the superintendent was making a point.

There are people who ask to go to the toilet 40 minutes into an exam and then again later, without a medical condition that is trying it on. Perhaps they all need to be reminded to go before they go in.

linguist

I can see both sides. Clearly, going to the toilet is a basic human right and I just don't see how this can be enforced.

However, I got through both of my State exams and all my university exams without ever needing to use the toilet and my recollection is that most of my classmates (at school) managed the same feat. I go back a bit so this was before we couldn't go anywhere without a big bottle of water (I know, sometime before the ice age!). We were also read the riot act about this before the exams and a big deal was made about being accompanied. I also did exam attendant and it was a rarity in those days to actually have to bring somebody to the toilet.

From supervising the house exams just before the holidays, the number of students needing to go to the toilet has reached ridiculous levels and all of them are drinking lots of liquids when they're in the exam. Bluntly, it seems to be an excuse for a walk and I think something needs to be done about it. There are anecdotal reports going back over many years of notes being left in toilet cubicles etc. and anything that has the potential to call the integrity of the exam into question should be a concern to everyone. My solution - but I acknowledge the difficulty in enforcing it - would be to have a formal report filed to the SEC in respect of anyone who goes out more than three times and a requirement to file a medical cert. to be considered in any follow up.

Badwulf

"You should of went before the exam started"


THATS NOT HOW THE HUMAN BODY WORKS YOU <abuse snipped - warning issued>

I CANT JUST GO INTO THE BATHROOM AND SAY "Ravioli ravioli, piss into the toiletoli" AND EXPECT TO PEE ON COMMAND

Janeh9

I haven't seen a "toilet brigade" in the last week, we've had max two people ask for the bathroom in the exam and if you're looking at your exam you don't even notice they've left, a lot of people know that they'll disrupt the others if they make noise

Thundering_Sky

Surely people bursting to go to the toilet will cause more of a disturbance because they will be shifting back and forth in their seat?

I'd say the supervisor is just bluffing and hoping that it will deter those going to the toilet just for the sake of a break.
Relax and try not to think about it, if you really need the toilet I'm sure they would let you. Good luck with the rest of your exams

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0MUQj8zjE4

Gongoozler

I remember the nightmare that was my junior and leaving cert exams. I had ibs, though didn't know what the condition was at the time, and no one else knew about it. Classes were a nightmare as you had to ask permission to go to the toilet, and often they just wouldn't let you. Then the exams, I had to ask, and then a girl, who was in the class below me, would come in with me to the toilet, and chat away. Really really the most uncomfortable experience of my life. And as is the case with ibs, the nervousness of the big deal of having to go to the toilet made me have to go. I remember during my geography exam I had to leave three times.

Going to the toilet should never be even considered as not an option.

Some exams I actually left early, for the junior cert, because I didn't want to have to ask.

spurious

Janeh9 wrote: »

I haven't seen a "toilet brigade" in the last week, we've had max two people ask for the bathroom in the exam and if you're looking at your exam you don't even notice they've left, a lot of people know that they'll disrupt the others if they make noise

How many are in your centre? Enough for three supervisors in the one room?

Saskatchewan

There are 3 exams centres on my area, about 110ish students. The odd person asks to go to the toilet maybe 3 or 4 per exam. I sit close enough to the only door in the place, and it isn't much of an inconvenience at all. Don't understand why they wouldn't allow it...

spurious

Saskatchewan wrote: »

There are 3 exams centres on my area, about 110ish students. The odd person asks to go to the toilet maybe 3 or 4 per exam. I sit close enough to the only door in the place, and it isn't much of an inconvenience at all. Don't understand why they wouldn't allow it...

So if only a few need to go out in your place, you'd think it would be the same everywhere, but some people are up and down like jacks in the box.
As has been said before, I'd say the superintendent is making a point and would still let people out if they need to go.

Backfire

I'm a superintendent in a school and in my opinion that announcement is not acceptable. As long as everything is recorded, no reason why a student is allowed to go to the toilet several times during an exam. As long as the procedures outlined for superintendents are followed exactly, there wont be a problem.

It just sounds to me that they just want to cut their work load.

Peregrine

Saskatchewan wrote: »

There are 3 exams centres on my area, about 110ish students. The odd person asks to go to the toilet maybe 3 or 4 per exam. I sit close enough to the only door in the place, and it isn't much of an inconvenience at all. Don't understand why they wouldn't allow it...

There are 20 LC students in my room and at least 10 of them had to go to the toilet during Maths P1 yesterday, even more in English P2. Some people went twice. Really annoying tbh.

I understand that some people really have to go but some of it can be reduced if the students just control what they drink before and go to the toilet before. It'd be better for them too, I'd be very angry with myself if I had to leave during an exam to go to the toilet. Time is precious in almost every subject.

And a lot of it is just people messing around. Nobody ever asks to go to the toilets during classes, we'd know if they did because the toilets are locked during classes and they'd need a note from the teacher to get the key. In the past 2 years, nobody needed the bathroom during class but in 2 and a half hours, they all do?


But I still think saying nobody is allowed to go is an over reaction. Some people can't help it and if they have to go to the toilet, they have to go to the toilet.

Saskatchewan

Yeah, we were told on the first day to go before the exam if at all possible, but its okay if you need to go during. ALOT of people do leave early in the exam though ~60% so that may be a contributing factor.
The time in the exam is too short to be going out to the toilet in the middle of it!

Mr Pseudonym

seavill wrote: »

Do not follow the advice of mr pseudonym about shoving the paper in the examiners hand and leaving anyway this is again terrible advice. What will you do if he doesn't let you back in. You won't have a leg to stand on if the examiner sticks to his guns and quotes back the rules the he quoted above.

The poster Seavill is someone with whom I've sparred on several occasions, and who recently received a warning for her/his conduct.

My advice, if you'll excuse me, is actually quite good: if you are at the point of ultimate urgency, and you'd rather not be the person who pi**ed themselves in the LC, having left the paper in the superintendent's possession and been accompanied to the toilets greatly reduces potential opposition to being readmitted.

I throw my support entirely behind the camp that believes it ridiculous to preface any contribution to this discussion with, "You should be able to sit the exam without needing to go..."

seavill

Firstly something which happens on another thread has got nothing to do with this thread so I would ask that you be somewhat mature and take each post as an individual response to what you have posted.

Encouraging someone to just up and walk out shoving the paper in the examiners hand and hoping they will readmit you is certainly not good advice regardless of anything. There is no examiner that will allow someone to as you so eloquently put it "piss themselves". They would be all over the papers and news the next day most likely and certainly won't be re-employed next year. No one should be here offering any advice where there is a possibility of someone not being readmitted. There are proper ways of dealing with any issue.
Firstly speak to your parents, secondly speak with your principal Monday morning (getting your parents to call if you feel necessary depending on how easy going your principal is). Thirdly ask your principal to speak with the examiner, or speak with them yourself at the start of the exam, again depending on how you feel about it. Finally if the situation arises that you need to go you put up your hand and request to go. Failing this you explain that you have a medical condition and when you have to go you have to go. After all of this there is no way you won't be allowed go. If after all of that you are not allowed go you have a choice to make which is do you need to go that badly that you can't wait any longer, if so are you willing to take the chance of not being readmitted.

Finally if you are referring to me I did not say "You should be able to sit the exam without needing to go..." I said the majority of people would be able to make it through an exam if they watch what they drink in the hour before the exam and ensure to go to the toilet before the exam also, there is a massive difference in those statements, particularly if you take the rest of that sentence without being selective in quoting

LiverpoolLad95

I don't think we should be allowed, one lad went to the toilet, pulled his phone from his trousers and looked at the biome in the toilets :mad::mad: Cheating scumbag.

Besides, throughout my Geo exam, about 12 people (out of 30) went to the toilet. Fishy me thinks. After 10 mins from the beginning 1 lad went to the toilet......

spurious

Infraction for MsPseudonym - don't think deleting a post makes any difference.
Outrageously uncivil conduct.

Noccy_Mondy

Students going to the bathroom can be very disruptive, especially if there is a large group wanting to go. Taking for example my school, the gym is divided into 4 centres, which takes all 100 (roughly) Leaving Cert students. Even if 10 in total go to the bathroom, one has to (everytime) deal with the chair screeching back, guaranteed pen to drop, the traipsing up to sign the booklet, and walk out. Then one comes back signs the book again, back to the seat and screeches the chair legs once again. I can understand how it gets on peoples nerves. The examiner in the OP's case, like others have said, probably said what they said in order to deter the "toilet brigade" from going unnecessarily.

randylonghorn

Mr Pseudonym wrote: »

The poster Seavill is someone with whom I've sparred on several occasions, and who recently received a warning for her/his conduct.

Do not backseat mod. Any interaction between another poster and a moderator is none of your business. Do not discuss it or even refer to it.

And I am getting very tired of the sniping between you two.