Exposed gas pipework on façade of apartment block

iseeblue

I am on the residents committee of a 1972 build, 4 storey apartment block.

Heating had been up to now been communal oil fired and is to be replaced this year as communal heating is not legal as it stands.

The options are electric or gas. The electric option has been chosen by approximately 50% of owners and gas for the rest.

The committee are proposing to bring the gas piping up along and fixed to the external walls - unclad. Just bare gas pipe work.

This doesn't seem correct - or even legal - to me. It seems quite dangerous. I have never seen an apartment block with gas piping externally.

I spoke with architect friends in Poland and Romania and both told me that when retrofitting an older building with gas, the pipework cannot be on the exterior walls exposed - it must run internally.

I suspect that, while Bord Gas have installed hundreds of apartment blocks with gas, they have perhaps never retrofitted an old building. There are more than 70 apartments in the building.

I could find no meaningful direct answers to my query on the web. I found one document from New York State which stated that "Installing piping outside the building is also permitted but tends to be prohibitively expensive."

This is my feeling also, that the pipework will need to be securely protected with ventilated cladding, which will increase costs. Safety and to a lesser extent aesthetics are priority here. Safety is #1 priority.

Exposed piping has a risk of vandalism or even theft. I feel the pipes must be securely protected.

Thoughts, opinions and facts appreciated.

Thank you

gctest50

It could be hidden in a vented duct, it'd look like a rain-water pipe

Few bits here :

http://www.bordgaisnetworks.ie/Global/Get%20Connected/BGN%20Get%20Connected%20Web%20Content/Get%20Connected%20Documents/Guideline_for_designers_builders_Booklet_3.pdf

Dredd_J

iseeblue wrote: »

The committee are proposing to bring the gas piping up along and fixed to the external walls - unclad. Just bare gas pipe work.

Thank you

Whatever about the rest. I guarantee that will be an eyesore and effect the value of your apartments when you want to sell.

I was renting an apartment last year which had gas pipes visible and it was a constant topic of conversation among the residents about what an eyesore it was and was anything going to be done about it.

Cuddlesworth

iseeblue wrote: »

Safety is #1 priority.

In the event of a gas leak, the best place for the pipe is in the outside air. Any tampering is most evident in exposed pipes. So I'd drop that line.

iseeblue

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In the event of a gas leak, the best place for the pipe is in the outside air. Any tampering is most evident in exposed pipes. So I'd drop that line.

What line would you drop? Thanks

iseeblue

Dredd_J wrote: »

Whatever about the rest. I guarantee that will be an eyesore and effect the value of your apartments when you want to sell.

I was renting an apartment last year which had gas pipes visible and it was a constant topic of conversation among the residents about what an eyesore it was and was anything going to be done about it.

Thanks. Can you tell me where is this block please? I would like to have a look at how it was done - ugly as it may be.

Dredd_J

There wasnt work done. It was exposed gas pipes that are just left there. I tried to get a picture of it for you , before it was covered over. But just look at the awful job they did hiding the pipes. This is their solution to the eyesore of exposed gas pipes.

google.ie/maps/@53.470978,-6.230348,3a,75y,195.39h,69.67t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ss8js21fpxLk-Pl5j12gvDQ!2e0

stampydmonkey

AFAIK Bord gais will only install pipework to the meter locations, usually external and in dedicated housing with adequate ventilation. The pipework downstream of the meters are the responsibility of whoever your contractor is.

Mrs OBumble

iseeblue wrote: »

What line would you drop? Thanks

Trying to use safety issues as the argument, when really you are concerned about aesthetics.

iseeblue

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Trying to use safety issues as the argument, when really you are concerned about aesthetics.

No. I said "Safety and to a lesser extent aesthetics are priority here. Safety is #1 priority."

Mrs OBumble

You're not getting the point, are you.

No one believes that there's a safety issue.

iseeblue

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You're not getting the point, are you.

No one believes that there's a safety issue.

It's ILLEGAL across Europe or PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE because of course there's a safety issue. What people 'believe' is often not what is the truth. You're obviously not getting the point. I'm not having a discussion with you based on your ignorance of the topic. Don't get involved with things when you can be of no assistance.

The_Morrigan

iseeblue wrote: »

It's ILLEGAL across Europe or PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE because of course there's a safety issue. What people 'believe' is often not what is the truth. You're obviously not getting the point. I'm not having a discussion with you based on your ignorance of the topic. Don't get involved with things when you can be of no assistance.

Do not take that tone on here please or you'll be taking a break from the forum, if you have a problem with a post report it & let the mods deal with it.

Morri

ted1

iseeblue wrote: »

It's ILLEGAL across Europe or PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE

so really you don't know. but suspect its one or the other.

GerardKeating

iseeblue wrote: »

Heating had been up to now been communal oil fired and is to be replaced this year as communal heating is not legal as it stands.

When/How did Communal heating become illegal?

quietsailor

Communal heating where the individual flats can't control the heating for their own flat is illegal' But one boiler for a complex is not - op what EXACTLY do you mean by communal. What system is fitted

iseeblue

ted1 wrote: »

so really you don't know. but suspect its one or the other.

I do know. I just said it:
1- it's illegal across Europe
2- it's prohibitively expensive where it's legal (New York State example)

iseeblue

quietsailor wrote: »

Communal heating where the individual flats can't control the heating for their own flat is illegal' But one boiler for a complex is not - op what EXACTLY do you mean by communal. What system is fitted

It is an oil fired communal system whereby (example) the heating is turned on Nov 1 and turned off April 1. Individual apartments cannot control their own heating. Hence illegal.

Mrs OBumble

GerardKeating wrote: »

When/How did Communal heating become illegal?

I believe it was the same change to minimum standards which made bedsits with shared bathrooms illegal.

ted1

iseeblue wrote: »

It is an oil fired communal system whereby (example) the heating is turned on Nov 1 and turned off April 1. Individual apartments cannot control their own heating. Hence illegal.

A simple TRV will make it legal. Once there is means to control the temp it's legal. Most district/ communal heating systems have local controls I have yet to see one that doesn't

Nukem

Sorry am I losing something in translation here?

Communal is equivalent to centralised heating system feeding each apartment. (E.g. One gas supply to centralised boilers and hot water loop to the apartments) ie a district heating system?

If so why is gas required up along the side of the building. Get a prefabed boiler package enclosure on the ground floor and run gas to that and from that run the hot water pipe work anywhere/anyway you want?

If your retro fitting the existing networks with gas boilers how is the oil getting there at the moment? Internal or external piping?

iseeblue

Up until winter/cold season this year, there has been a single boiler which pumped hot water through the radiator system in the building. An individual apartment deciding to turn valves on radiators to 'on' position had no effect on boiler. The boiler would heat water between for example 7am-10am and 7pm-10pm.
The decision has been made that gas or electric will be the new heating systems that owners can select. Electric is of no issue as confirmed by ESB.
The installation of the gas pipework is the issue here. Can it be naked pipework on the external walls of the block?

quietsailor

iseeblue wrote: »

It is an oil fired communal system whereby (example) the heating is turned on Nov 1 and turned off April 1. Individual apartments cannot control their own heating. Hence illegal.

Yep, that's not allowed,

Instead of going to all the trouble of running gas pipes have ye considered fitting controls to each apartment consisting of timers and thermostats plus a meter on the supply line to each apartment - assuming each apartment has a separate supply line rather than a looped circuit.

It would be worth getting a plumber to look at the job as if it's only a case of wiring in controls that would be a lot less disruption & a lot easier than running gas pipework with all the attendant safety rules

Lantus

Bord Gais could of answered this question for you in minutes.

Gas pipework can be run up an external wall and should be in steel pipework and the contractor should be an approved installer.

The OMC and your block insurer will need to review and approve all drawings prior to any work being carried out as it may affect the premium. If the premium was detrimental then the proposed change can usually be blocked.

the gas meter box will be on the outside of the building as is current standards and the pipe will just run up from here. Its very small and shouldn't be an issue unless its in a really prominent position like a front façade.

You also need holes in the walls for vents and boiler flues and these need to be located a sufficient distance from other services like electrics, drainpipes, gutters, balconies etc. There are guidelines, building regulations and pictures a plenty with all the info on and usually very easy to get a hold of.

This is a measurable and well defined process with good guidelines as to what can and cannot be done. Aesthetics are a separate consideration and will need to be assessed as well as to their impact on the building long term.

iseeblue

Oh... my understanding was that steel piping was not permitted due to corrosion and that only copper would be permitted?