The Sunday Game Thread

K-9

Agh sure we were a plague and the death of football for a while, last year was just because we beat the Dubs.

That break that ended up with Murphy pointing from the free would have been a goal against Dublin last year. Impressed with Mayo defensively yesterday. That together with O'Shea giving them a new option makes then serious contenders for me, I'd have no problem backing them in both matches if they get through. Doubt O'Connor will be as quiet again.

JRant

K-9 wrote: »

Agh sure we were a plague and the death of football for a while, last year was just because we beat the Dubs.

That break that ended up with Murphy pointing from the free would have been a goal against Dublin last year. Impressed with Mayo defensively yesterday. That together with O'Shea giving them a new option makes then serious contenders for me, I'd have no problem backing them in both matches if they get through. Doubt O'Connor will be as quiet again.

The stars aligned last year against the Dubs but it was a fantastic performance.

I thought it was one game too many for this Donegal team. They looked lethargic in that second half. Mayo were very good though.

Should be a fascinating game between ourselves and Mayo. AOS will trouble Rory and we may see a slightly more defensive setup from us. I can see our half forwards having a huge impact though. Dermo is probably the premier player in the country at the moment and if he can turn it on we'll have enough to turn them over.

Can't wait for it.

If Mayo do turn us over I really hope they go on to win it though.

ColeTrain

JRant wrote: »

The stars aligned last year against the Dubs but it was a fantastic performance.

I thought it was one game too many for this Donegal team. They looked lethargic in that second half. Mayo were very good though.

Should be a fascinating game between ourselves and Mayo. AOS will trouble Rory and we may see a slightly more defensive setup from us. I can see our half forwards having a huge impact though. Dermo is probably the premier player in the country at the moment and if he can turn it on we'll have enough to turn them over.

Can't wait for it.

If Mayo do turn us over I really hope they go on to win it though.

The build up and wait for this will make it a long three weeks!

Can't wait for it though, it's going to a massive occasion!

keane2097

Jayop wrote: »

It was a strange one. Hughes initially ran towards Meyler and looked like he was going to clean him out and I'm sure Meyler though that too. At the last minute though Hughes put his arms up and kind of stalled his run and Meyler took a step towards him. That step Meyler took was what made me think it was the correct decision. It wasn't that it was a cynical pull down but rather one where Mayler was putting the arm up/out to protect himself when he though he was going to be clattered but Hughes stopping made it look bad.

It was a strange one alright. You could have gotten away with giving neither of them cards either because like I said it looked like half a black card offence by both of them in a way!

donegaLroad

Balla, Co Mayo, on Saturday.. The only TV in the parish with Sky Sports.

Dirty Dingus McGee

donegaLroad wrote: »

Balla, Co Mayo, on Saturday.. The only TV in the parish with Sky Sports.

Great to see.

"Sky Sports, bringing communities in Ireland together since 2014"

Jayop

JRant wrote: »

I think most people are just sick of the continual controversy that follows this particular county around.

As for this anti-Ulster thing that's supposedly going on, I just don't see it.

Donegal rightly received many plaudits for their fantastic performances over the past couple of years. Last years semi-final win against my lot being a prime example.

Most neutrals were delighted for Monaghan winning 2 Ulster titles in 3 years and Fermanagh got great praise for their performance 2 weeks ago.

Tyrone deliberately set themselves up as a cynical, win at any cost team. This has been going on for over a decade. It can hardly be surprising if there is a backlash against them now.

There is an anti Ulster thing and it's always been going. It exists in the GAA and in pretty much every walk of Irish life. Maybe not from you, but try living in the south for a few years with a northern accent and you'd know what I mean.

As for the Tyrone being cynical that's blown out of all proportion. The media led by RTE have it in for us and it's been happening since we beat Kerry in 2003. Now every incident is blown out of all proportion.

It doesn't help that we've gave them some ammunition but it's still blown out of all context.

JRant

ColeTrain wrote: »

The build up and wait for this will make it a long three weeks!

Can't wait for it though, it's going to a massive occasion!

It'll be a long time for the Mayo lads to keep expectations in check. They probably go in as favourites purely because we haven't faced anyone of note yet.

Say Your Number

donegaLroad wrote: »

Balla, Co Mayo, on Saturday.. The only TV in the parish with Sky Sports.

That reminds me of the Hardy Bucks when the lads got a broadband connection and people came from miles around and payed them to watch some videos on their laptop :pac:

Kerry_2008

I don't know why people are getting worked up by what Darragh O'Se says on sky sports. His ability to analyse a game has been terrible always. Anyone that watched our U21s under him would know, I don't think there is any malice in what he was saying stuff like " he used his experience to win that free". He's just a terrible co commentator / pundit and can't think of anything else to say.


Anyway using your experience to win a free doesnt have to equate to diving. If you know you will win a free by going into contact it doesn't mean it's still not a free. It's just being cute.

JRant

Jayop wrote: »

There is an anti Ulster thing and it's always been going. It exists in the GAA and in pretty much every walk of Irish life. Maybe not from you, but try living in the south for a few years with a northern accent and you'd know what I mean.

As for the Tyrone being cynical that's blown out of all proportion. The media led by RTE have it in for us and it's been happening since we beat Kerry in 2003. Now every incident is blown out of all proportion.

It doesn't help that we've gave them some ammunition but it's still blown out of all context.

The thing about the GAA is that it's the most tribal organisation going. Every week, up and down the country you've lads bate'n the bejasus out of each other just because they're from different parishes.

i've not seen this anti-Ulster vibe anywhere i've been. Be that in work, down the club or on a night out.

Tyrone have well earned their reputation. Are they any worse than some other teams right now? Probably not but they've been at this since the early noughties . As they say, if it walks like a duck and talks like a ducks....

Jayop

Kerry_2008 wrote: »

I don't know why people are getting worked up by what Darragh O'Se says on sky sports. His ability to analyse a game has been terrible always. Anyone that watched our U21s under him would know, I don't think there is any malice in what he was saying stuff like " he used his experience to win that free". He's just a terrible co commentator / pundit and can't think of anything else to say.


Anyway using your experience to win a free doesnt have to equate to diving. If you know you will win a free by going into contact it doesn't mean it's still not a free. It's just being cute.

That's exactly what I just said in the Tyrone/Monaghan match thread. Tyrone play a running game and it's a tactical decision to run with the ball into contact within the scoring range. At that point it's incumbent on the defending team not to foul. Drawing contact isn't cheating in any way shape or form and every single one of the free's we were awarded was because a Monaghan player poorly tackled.

elefant

Say Your Number wrote: »

That reminds me of the Hardy Bucks when the lads got a broadband connection and people came from miles around and payed them to watch some videos on their laptop :pac:

'some videos'

:pac:

Say Your Number

elefant wrote: »

'some videos'

:pac:

Yeah of Liam McHale's best moments on Youtube :

Morgans

That's the difference between the good/strong Armagh team of 6-8 years ago was that they were physical and prided themselves on it. Made all teams face up and be men if you wanted to beat them, they werent going to make things easy.

Tyrone, while being physical have always included diving as part of their make up, and that it has been such a part of their play for a decade that it has to come from management. Love being physical but only for Tyrone its being physical only up to a point. Its why 'Battles of Omagh' happen and will happen again. Its frankly surprising that it hasnt happened more.

Of course, the defence that there is nothing wrong and its only anti-Tyrone whining is a critical part of the defence mechanism. Cowards.

Jayop

Morgans wrote: »

That's the difference between the good/strong Armagh team of 6-8 years ago was that they were physical and prided themselves on it. Made all teams face up and be men if you wanted to beat them, they werent going to make things easy.

Tyrone, while being physical have always included diving as part of their make up, and that it has been such a part of their play for a decade that it has to come from management. Love being physical but only for Tyrone its being physical only up to a point. Its why 'Battles of Omagh' happen and will happen again. Its frankly surprising that it hasnt happened more.

Of course, the defence that there is nothing wrong and its only anti-Tyrone whining is a critical part of the defence mechanism. Cowards.

One dive yesterday which we've all criticised. I've asked multiple posters on here to tell me which other incident was a dive but they can't.

Morgans

Sean Cavanagh threw himself to the ground as McManus was looking to take a free after the sending off. That was off the top of my head. The idea that that Cavanagh would have been felled by the 'challenge' if he was trying to stay on his feet is laughable. Cowards.

harpsman

In terms of "cynicism/dirtyness/dark arts/dirty tricks" Tyrone of the Mickey Harte era are by far the worst offenders. They're not the most physically "dirty" because by and large theyre one of the smaller teams, but they make up for it with the sneaky, Knackery behaviour.
Just a selection of examples
Gooch bitten 03, Gooch eye gouged 05, McGuigan tripping Greg McCartan 04, Philip Jordan getting Marsden sent off 03, the antics on Saturday, the antics in Ballybofey, slagging a minor about his dead father, McMenamin spitting on Kerry players in a league match, the spitting etc in those junior club matches against the Kerry teams, Cavanaghs years of diving, the rugby tackle on McManus, Brian McGuigan getting blindsided by his own county man in a challenge match sustaining an eye injury so bad the surgeon compared it to people who had been beaten with baseball bats.
Thats just a sample count btw.

All the other top teams( and I would consider Monaghan to be the next worst offender, hence lack of sympathy for them, particularly the Hughes brothers!) have been guilty of various similar offences over the years but the total of the rest put together still wouldnt equal Tyrones list of misdemeanours.

What actually sickened me most this year was the sanctimonious whinging all overthe airwaves from Saint Sean and St Peter about the bad language theyve had to listen to from other teams and Peter using his newspaper column to have another whinge about Meath 96 the day Tyrone played Meath.

Apologies for repeat post but theres about 4 threads on same subject.

Jayop

Morgans wrote: »

Sean Cavanagh threw himself to the ground as McManus was looking to take a free after the sending off. That was off the top of my head. The idea that that Cavanagh would have been felled by the 'challenge' if he was trying to stay on his feet is laughable. Cowards.

You mean when the ball was being brought forward and McManus ran past Sean hitting him an elbow in the back?

Jesus if that's a dive I'm giving up.

Morgans

If you think that elbow was enough to fell Cavanagh there is no point in discussing this. McAllusky also pointed out by Colm O'Rourke. If you think there was one dive, attempt to get players booked/sent off by feigning injury, you are part of the Tyrone problem. Its a shame to the good players that they have.

Jayop

Morgans wrote: »

If you think that elbow was enough to fell Cavanagh there is no point in discussing this. McAllusky also pointed out by Colm O'Rourke. If you think there was one dive, attempt to get players booked/sent off by feigning injury, you are part of the Tyrone problem. Its a shame to the good players that they have.

McCalliskey didn't dive. He got a dig in the head off the ball. He feigned injury but that's not the same thing.

But you're right there's no point talking to you if you think Cavanagh going down from an elbow in the back after being targetted all game was a dive.

sliabh beagh

Morgans wrote: »

If you think that elbow was enough to fell Cavanagh there is no point in discussing this. McAllusky also pointed out by Colm O'Rourke. If you think there was one dive, attempt to get players booked/sent off by feigning injury, you are part of the Tyrone problem. Its a shame to the good players that they have.

your just as biased as the rest of them. so mc manus' elbow was excusable but the way cavanagh fell wasnt? dont allow urself to get brainwashed by the southern media, esp rte.

Morgans

Jayop wrote: »

McCalliskey didn't dive. He got a dig in the head off the ball. He feigned injury but that's not the same thing.

But you're right there's no point talking to you if you think Cavanagh going down from an elbow in the back after being targetted all game was a dive.

Colm Cavanagh dived in the incident immediately prior to Tiernan McCann being sent off. The point of the dive is the same as feigning injury, to get players booked. McCann feigned injury. He dived. As did Kavanagh, as did McCallisky. Big physical men who want to act tough who do not want to stand up cos thats how you do it 'smart'. Its a shame that good footballers are encouraged to play in such a cowardly manner.

Morgans

sliabh beagh wrote: »

your just as biased as the rest of them. so mc manus' elbow was excusable but the way cavanagh fell wasnt? dont allow urself to get brainwashed by the southern media, esp rte.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Would have more respect for Kavanagh if he stood up and fought someone. But its 'smart' to act physical, and feign injury. Its been a clear part of Tyrone's tactics for over a decade and its a shame that they play the game that way. Id guess most players would love to play the game in a different way. Must look at the way other teams play with jealousy.

sliabh beagh

Morgans wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Would have more respect for Kavanagh if he stood up and fought someone. But its 'smart' to act physical, and feign injury. Its been a clear part of Tyrone's tactics for over a decade and its a shame that they play the game that way. Id guess most players would love to play the game in a different way. Must look at the way other teams play with jealousy.

whether they were wrong or not is not the issue. the issue is that only one has been portrayed as wrong. i didnt hear too many saying mc manus was wrong.

Morgans

Its unfortunate that a big physical player like Cavanagh chooses to do that. Its also unfortunate that it has got to the stage for Cavanagh that all GAA fans understand why McManus took the opportunity to give a dig. I don't think it was anything remotely nearly enough of an elbow to fell Cavanagh, had he wanted to stay on his feet. Its just reflex for Cavanagh at this stage to go down. Like McCann. Its exactly what they are looking for. Its 'smart' to act like you are up for a fight but throw yourself to the ground when challenged.

Was it Jason Akermanis who said Peter Canavan punched him in the face and ran away like a big girl in the park? I can remember being disgusted by Akermanis at the time, but its a surprise that there arent more incidents where the nicities are forgotten. I suppose managers are aware of the tactics.

tayto lover

Yeah. It's all the Tyrone lads fault :rolleyes:
There was only one team at it.

Get your digs in at the Tyrone lads now for all those defeats they gave yis.

Morgans

Believing that its begrudgery is part of the problem.

Do you not think there is any merit in the Tyrone criticism?

tayto lover

Morgans wrote: »

Believing that its begrudgery is part of the problem.

Do you not think there is any merit in the Tyrone criticism?

Of course there is BUT Monaghan were just as bad imo.
They could have won if they played football.
I also feel that there's a lot of lads just waiting for the chance to criticise Tyrone and can't hold back.
I have seen many teams use spoiling tactics over the years. It's not a new phenomenon in the GAA.

aveytare

Morgans wrote: »

Was it Jason Akermanis who said Peter Canavan punched him in the face and ran away like a big girl in the park? I can remember being disgusted by Akermanis at the time, but its a surprise that there arent more incidents where the nicities are forgotten. I suppose managers are aware of the tactics.

If that actually happened (Akermanis is a bit of a loon) I don't really blame Canavan for getting a sneaky hit in, Akermanis tortured him from start to finish.

Morgans

tayto lover wrote: »

Of course there is BUT Monaghan were just as bad imo.
They could have won if they played football.
I also feel that there's a lot of lads just waiting for the chance to criticise Tyrone and can't hold back.
I have seen many teams use spoiling tactics over the years. It's not a new phenomenon in the GAA.

Generally it is more obvious when they are winning. You are right, Michael Murphy provoked a red card at the weekend as well but he didnt throw himself to the ground when 'struck'. Spoiling tactics are a pain, but I do think that its different to the issue of diving. Tyrone do try to be an ultra physical team and provoke only to dive when challenged. Its the idea that they think its smart thats the problem. They have several very good footballers and its a horrible way that they are asked to play when winning.

Jayop

Asked to play, you really do lap it up man.

Morgans

It was nice to see Tayto lover show some self-awareness about Tyrone. You show none. The idea that the provocation when losing and cynicism when winning isnt a pre-defined tactic is ridiculous.

Jayop

Yep I can just imagine the team talk.

Pretty fast

Morgans wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right. Would have more respect for Kavanagh if he stood up and fought someone. But its 'smart' to act physical, and feign injury. Its been a clear part of Tyrone's tactics for over a decade and its a shame that they play the game that way. Id guess most players would love to play the game in a different way. Must look at the way other teams play with jealousy.

Great posting here Morgan but just to add to that. Ever before the emergence of Tyrone in the last 12 or so years they were known for falling down looking for frees. Going back into Ulster championship games way up through the decades 40's 50' 60' they were known for it within Ulster. My grandfather an Armagh man always said it about them they always fell over way too easily and he's dead since 1977.

Jayop

Sweet Jesus I've heard it all. Someone dead almost forty years is a credible source I suppose.

Next time Morgan is posting he'll be referencing it.

Morgans

Jayop wrote: »

Sweet Jesus I've heard it all. Someone dead almost forty years is a credible source I suppose.

Next time Morgan is posting he'll be referencing it.

No. I would view it more credible source than someone who has yet to see a problem with Tyrone's way of doing things and thinks there was only one dive in the game yesterday. Someone who sees a difference between diving and feigning injury (and that's only on this page of the thread.) Someone with these views will do well to have any credibility in any discussion on Tyrone.

Jayop

Yip, you could email that story to brolly for the next Sunday game

JRant

Well I hear Harte has fully backed McCann this morning.

Jayop

JRant wrote: »

Well I hear Harte has fully backed McCann this morning.

No he didn't. He said he was wrong, he apologided and he would do it differently.

James74

JRant wrote: »

Well I hear Harte has fully backed McCann this morning.

You see this is the sort of sh*te that that is spouted both here and in the media that makes me annoyed. Using "Well I hear" as three weasel words before your statement does not then give you free reign to spout pure ****e which gets picked up later as fact.

You know what's a bigger cancer on our game than some young lad that took the head staggers for half a second and did something dumb; it's the despicable, factually dubious, constant drip drip drip of poisonous negativity and bile from substandard "pundits" and armchair players/managers. The odd bit of dodgy nonsense that might happen every now and then on the pitch has always happened as long as the game has been played between neighbouring parishes up and down the country. It is actually this vindictive, click-bait style "journalism" and comment that is new, pervasive and will inevitably hurt our game. If it continues the hard natural rivalry, but usually vibrant community, between the Gaels and gaelic supporters will be the real victim.
I hope my opinion is wrong, I really do. I miss looking forward to the Monday morning ritual of getting The Irish News and drinking in page after page of top class coverage of football, now I have to hoke through the bitterness and gossip to get to any actual comment on the actual football.

tayto lover

Morgans wrote: »

It was nice to see Tayto lover show some self-awareness about Tyrone. You show none. The idea that the provocation when losing and cynicism when winning isnt a pre-defined tactic is ridiculous.

In my post before the match I spoke of the importance of the referee for the game and that Marty was not the man for the job.
A good referee (and they are very few) would have made an example of the first players from each team and if necessary the next two and knocked it on the head early (excuse pun).
Does the referee even visit the dressingrooms before the match and tell the players the standard he expects?

My point about both teams being at fault still stands. I'm not from Tyrone or Monaghan but i have much experience of Ulster football and you can get games like that any year from any county. I have seen the same many a time in all of the provinces too. I really do blame the standard of refereeing and lack of directive from HQ.

JRant

James74 wrote: »

You see this is the sort of sh*te that that is spouted both here and in the media that makes me annoyed. Using "Well I hear" as three weasel words before your statement does not then give you free reign to spout pure ****e which gets picked up later as fact.

You know what's a bigger cancer on our game than some young lad that took the head staggers for half a second and did something dumb; it's the despicable, factually dubious, constant drip drip drip of poisonous negativity and bile from substandard "pundits" and armchair players/managers. The odd bit of dodgy nonsense that might happen every now and then on the pitch has always happened as long as the game has been played between neighbouring parishes up and down the country. It is actually this vindictive, click-bait style "journalism" and comment that is new, pervasive and will inevitably hurt our game. If it continues the hard natural rivalry, but usually vibrant community, between the Gaels and gaelic supporters will be the real victim.
I hope my opinion is wrong, I really do. I miss looking forward to the Monday morning ritual of getting The Irish News and drinking in page after page of top class coverage of football, now I have to hoke through the bitterness and gossip to get to any actual comment on the actual football.

Ha, angry much?

I heard it reported on RTE radio 1 this morning, hence the "i hear" bit in my post. Nothing weasel about it.

As for the rest of your post, you couldn't be more wrong. Don't blame the media or fans for the carryon of this Tyrone team. It's 100% their own doing.

JRant

Jayop wrote: »

No he didn't. He said he was wrong, he apologided and he would do it differently.

Only caught it on the radio this morning. They left that bit out.
Cheers

TCDStudent1

Jayop wrote: »

No he didn't. He said he was wrong, he apologided and he would do it differently.

Where did he apologise? This is the only source I have seen of what Harte said about the incident:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mickey-harte-claims-darren-hughes-and-tiernan-mccann-share-blame-over-dive-incident-31441263.html


I don't see an apology in here. He just says McCann would act differently if it happened again.

Jayop

I don't read Dinny Daily. It was the times I think and I'm fairly sure he said McCann was sorry.

Regardless he didn't defend his actions.

keane2097

The line at the end of Harte's response sticks out:

Is that a worse thing to do than punch somebody in the back of the head? Somebody else will have to give me the answer.

The reason it sticks out is because I happen to be reading his book at the moment. He addresses sledging and guff-giving early on and puts it in similar terms. Basically saying if he had to choose between someone whispering in his ear all game and someone punching him in the back of the head he would choose the whispering.

And that seems fair enough, only that it seems to ignore a fairly obvious third option. Harte denies he ever sends his teams out to spew rubbish at opposition players, but it seems to have at least tacit approval from him on the basis that other things they could be doing are worse.



TBH, this matches what Harte more or less always says on these sorts of things. I believe this is genuinely his opinion - diving, sledging etc don't hurt anyone and he's too bothered.

You could easily agree with his position that Paul Finlay's rabbit punch is way worse than diving or slabbering so why all the fuss about these incidents and not the rabbit punches?

The reality, I think, is that GAA people in general are way, way more aggravated by actions like this than Mickey Harte (and the rest of Tyrone taking their cue from him) is. That's where the disconnect between Tyrone people screaming "media bias" and everyone else screaming "are ye ****ing serious?" comes from imo.

Rightly or wrongly, we all outside think Tiernan McCann's dive is way more **** behaviour than Finlay leaving the knee in, while Mickey Harte thinks McCann is small beans by comparison.

Radio5

Interesting to see the clearout of the old SG panel for afternoon hurling coverage. No Cyril or Tomas or Ger or Liam or Michael Duignan. Even Eddie Brennan got the heave ho.

2moreMinutes

The phrase "cancer on our game" is the real cancer on our game.

Royal Legend

Kerry_2008 wrote: »

I don't know why people are getting worked up by what Darragh O'Se says on sky sports. His ability to analyse a game has been terrible always. Anyone that watched our U21s under him would know, I don't think there is any malice in what he was saying stuff like " he used his experience to win that free". He's just a terrible co commentator / pundit and can't think of anything else to say.


Anyway using your experience to win a free doesnt have to equate to diving. If you know you will win a free by going into contact it doesn't mean it's still not a free. It's just being cute.

I thought that when i heard his comments also, he was not saying that they were diving, just that they knew how to draw a free.