Should the death penalty be reinstated?

MakeEmLaugh

As most people will have heard, a man in his twenties died at the weekend after he stole a taxi and crashed it into a poll.

Immediately after the story went public, scores of people took to the comments sections of websites to declare they were glad the man had been killed.

When I read comments like these, it makes me wonder why 62% of voters approved abolishing the death penalty by referendum in 2001.

Surely if you have no qualms about a man in his twenties dying because he stole a car, you would have no qualms about a man being executed by the state for crimes like murder?

By the way, I'm no bleeding-heart liberal. I say this as someone who is ambivalent about the death penalty.

He did it to himself, he wasn't murdered for it
Now imagine the same story where a guy steals a taxi and a bunch of people show up and shoot him dead on the spot

Giving any government the ok to go ahead and kill people who may not even be guilty is not alright

Lapin

Oh FFS, here we go again.


Has it been a month already ?

komodosp

Funny alright that for some reason people like a harsher brand of justice when it's "Naturally" handed out, and will say that he got what he deserved... But imagine the punishment for stealing a taxi was execution? Same result but would people still say "he got what he deserved"?

Bio Mech

komodosp wrote: »

Funny alright that for some reason people like a harsher brand of justice when it's "Naturally" handed out, and will say that he got what he deserved... But imagine the punishment for stealing a taxi was execution? Same result but would people still say "he got what he deserved"?

There is huge difference between state sanctioned execution and some scummer who crashed his car though.

o1s1n

komodosp wrote: »

Funny alright that for some reason people like a harsher brand of justice when it's "Naturally" handed out, and will say that he got what he deserved... But imagine the punishment for stealing a taxi was execution? Same result but would people still say "he got what he deserved"?

Because many people don't believe in the state executing people. It's as simple as that. Would you like to live in a country where there's a possibility that you may be wrongfully executed? I wouldn't.

On the other hand, I don't particularly mind living in a country where I may die if I accidentally plow into a pole after hijacking a car.

SEPT 23 1989

I don't believe you should be executed for stealing a car and crashing it but for murder,rape,child abuse etc i think people need to pay the ultimate price for their crimes

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six should definitely have been executed.

o1s1n

I totally agree and would love to see people who have committed those crimes dangling on the end of a rope, the problem is getting it right 100% of the time.

And also mitigating circumstances. I've heard many folks say things like 'if someone abused my child, I'd hunt them down and murder them' etc. - do you think such a person should then the put to death for murder?

Too many grey areas IMO to have something as absolute as execution.

mad muffin

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

As most people will have heard, a man in his twenties died at the weekend after he stole a taxi and crashed it into a poll.

Immediately after the story went public, scores of people took to the comments sections of websites to declare they were glad the man had been killed.

When I read comments like these, it makes me wonder why 62% of voters approved abolishing the death penalty by referendum in 2001.

Surely if you have no qualms about a man in his twenties dying because he stole a car, you would have no qualms about a man being executed by the state for crimes like murder?

By the way, I'm no bleeding-heart liberal. I say this as someone who is ambivalent about the death penalty.

I think it's a bit of a stretch from, the scumbag got what he deserved, to let's reintroduce the death penalty…

the groutch

yes, but for serial re-offenders.
there are lots of people out there with 20, 30 or more convictions, if there's no chance of someone reforming it might be the way to go.

MakeEmLaugh

mad muffin wrote: »

I think it's a bit of a stretch from, the scumbag got what he deserved, to let's reintroduce the death penalty…

* The 'scumbag' (your word) stole the car.
* The 'scumbag' died shortly afterwards.
* The 'scumbag' "got what he deserved".

Therefore...

* The 'scumbag' deserved to die for stealing a car.

Seems like a pretty unambiguous endorsement of the death penalty right there.

mad muffin

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

* The 'scumbag' (your word) stole the car.
* The 'scumbag' died shortly afterwards.
* The 'scumbag' "got what he deserved".

Therefore...

* The 'scumbag' deserved to die for stealing a car.

Seems like a pretty unambiguous endorsement of the death penalty right there.

Oh and he died such a death too.

Arm ripped off in the crash and bled to death as his "mate" ran off. Couldn't be more delighted.

The_Captain

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

he stole a taxi and crashed it into a poll.

Have we at least found out who he voted for?

endacl

No.

Just no.

No.

MakeEmLaugh

The_Captain wrote: »

Have we at least found out who he voted for?

Sorry. I must have subconsciously avoided writing 'pole' because I didn't want people to think it was an attack on people from Eastern Europe.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

* The 'scumbag' (your word) stole the car.
* The 'scumbag' died shortly afterwards.
* The 'scumbag' "got what he deserved".

Therefore...

* The 'scumbag' deserved to die for stealing a car.

Seems like a pretty unambiguous endorsement of the death penalty right there.

Not necessarily. One is passive and merely saying you don't care what happened, the other is state sanctioned premeditated killing. Can you not see the difference?

whisky_galore

Anything for an original thread, this one has been done to death....

endacl

The scumbag didn't deserve to die for stealing a car.

He was asking for it though, in the manner of his driving.

There's the distinction. On the other hand, as a society we haven't lost much. We've probably gained in the long term through his having unwittingly removed himself. It's unlikely he was going to turn his life around and paint a Mona Lisa or cure cancer. The best thing that can be said about him is that there are cars that will remain unstolen in the future.

The King of Moo

The death penalty for wearing tracksuits or asking people for change.

Being put in the stocks and having rotten fruit thrown at you for tucking your socks into your runners or wearing replica sports jerseys.

Holsten

It doesn't work so why use it?

FunLover18

No. Society has to be better than that and in no circumstance should the state endorse the idea that murder and justice are the same thing.

Azwaldo55

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

As most people will have heard, a man in his twenties died at the weekend after he stole a taxi and crashed it into a poll.

Immediately after the story went public, scores of people took to the comments sections of websites to declare they were glad the man had been killed.

When I read comments like these, it makes me wonder why 62% of voters approved abolishing the death penalty by referendum in 2001.

Surely if you have no qualms about a man in his twenties dying because he stole a car, you would have no qualms about a man being executed by the state for crimes like murder?

By the way, I'm no bleeding-heart liberal. I say this as someone who is ambivalent about the death penalty.

1. The death penalty should not be reinstated because miscarriages of justice and frame ups of innocent people do occur.

2. The death penalty does not deter killers from killing people. Criminal psychopaths are fearless, remorseless and lack empathy. They kill and they simply don't care.

3. The death penalty does not bring the victims of murder back to life.

4. The death penalty creates a culture that legitimizes violence and cheapens human life.

5. The death penalty involves individual executioners killing an individual. Somebody has to throw the switch to deliver the electric shock or push the button to administer the lethal drugs or pull the gun trigger or pull the lever so the person drops through the floor on the end of a noose. It dehumanizes the executioner and dehumanizes us all collectively. In societies where execution is legal they don't televise the spectacle on live TV or throw them to the lions in the middle of packed stadiums.

foggy_lad

Then death penalty needs to be reinstated for certain crimes such as multiple murder and the rape of a minor and repeat murder and rape offenders should also be hanged.

What is also needed is the reintroduction of "hard labour" or "penal servitude" into sentencing so that offenders are actually paying for their crimes rather than the state and ultimately the taxpayer paying to incarcerate monsters in relative luxury.

Little CuChulainn

I don't think it should be used as a punishment. If it was introduced it should only be used in order to protect society from the most heinous people who are not suitable for prison or rehabilitation.

Azwaldo55

foggy_lad wrote: »

Then death penalty needs to be reinstated for certain crimes such as multiple murder and the rape of a minor and repeat murder and rape offenders should also be hanged.

The death penalty does not deter psychopaths who rape or kill. It does not bring the victims back to life or undo the rape. It is simply revenge and if society kills in revenge does it not debase us all and make us as evil as the killers and rapists?

What is also needed is the reintroduction of "hard labour" or "penal servitude" into sentencing so that offenders are actually paying for their crimes rather than the state and ultimately the taxpayer paying to incarcerate monsters in relative luxury.

Hard labor is an abuse of human rights and locking people up in cells 24/7 without access to books or television or the internet and feeding them gruel rather than proper food not just dehumanizes the prisoners but the prison staff administering this punishment and also society.
Prisons should simply deprive criminals of the freedom to live in society.
We put people in prisons to keep them out of circulation to protect ourselves.
Inflicting revenge has no effect on criminals.

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

Then death penalty needs to be reinstated for certain crimes such as multiple murder and the rape of a minor and repeat murder and rape offenders should also be hanged.

What is also needed is the reintroduction of "hard labour" or "penal servitude" into sentencing so that offenders are actually paying for their crimes rather than the state and ultimately the taxpayer paying to incarcerate monsters in relative luxury.

Killing people to show that killing people is wrong is daft and it doesn't work anyway
It is ultimately more expensive (for those that complain about upkeep) than life sentencing, and states in the usa with death penalty, last I checked the stats, showed it had no effect whatsoever
If you think you aren't going to get caught or don't think about the consequences, changing the consequences isn't going to deter you
It's just revenge and accomplishes nothing

MakeEmLaugh

Bio Mech wrote: »

There is huge difference between state sanctioned execution and some scummer who crashed his car though.

If he'd been arrested, charged, sentenced to death and then executed, would it have been a tragedy?

If so, then why is it not a tragedy that he died in a car crash?

That's the part I can't get my head around. I know capital punishment and dying accidentally by your own actions are different, but the outcome is the same: a man in his twenties is dead.

Many of the people who maintain that capital punishment is wrong are exulting over the fact that this man has died.

mad muffin

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

If he'd been arrested, charged, sentenced to death and then executed, would it have been a tragedy?

If so, then why is it not a tragedy that he died in a car crash?

That's the part I can't get my head around. I know capital punishment and dying accidentally by your own actions are different, but the outcome is the same: a man in his twenties is dead.

Many of the people who maintain that capital punishment is wrong are exulting over the fact that this man has died.

One is the state killing someone for stealing a taxi. The other is a career criminal getting killed in the course of committing a crime.

How hard is it to understand that? No one is saying that he deserved to die but very few care that he did.

Azwaldo55

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

If he'd been arrested, charged, sentenced to death and then executed, would it have been a tragedy?

If so, then why is it not a tragedy that he died in a car crash?

That's the part I can't get my head around. I know capital punishment and dying accidentally by your own actions are different, but the outcome is the same: a man in his twenties is dead.

Many of the people who maintain that capital punishment is wrong are exulting over the fact that this man has died.

Delight when a scumbag comes to a well deserved end by his own hand is entirely different from wishing he was killed by the state.

I would happily point and laugh if I saw a guy fleeing from a shop with a cleaver in one hand and bag full of money in the other pancaked and wrapped around the wheels of a passing articulated lorry like playdough.

However I would not support him being killed deliberately by someone else.

RobertKK

It should remain abolished.

There was a strong case for the death penalty when we didn't have secure prisons in the past and very dangerous people like murderers could escape.

Now prisons are much more secure and the case for the death penalty no longer exists.

kowloon

Is it okay to kill people when there's an alternative? No? End of discussion.

MakeEmLaugh

The latest Child Care Law Reporting Project featured some pretty grim stories, including this one.

A man was caught attempting to sexually abuse his infant daughter on a webcam. He did so unaware he was chatting to a policeman in another jurisdiction. The Gardaí were called, the man was arrested, and the child was placed into foster care.

In the court case that followed, the child's mother said she accepted that the father was responsible for child pornography on his computer and had possibly already abused their child.

The reactions on Facebook have been predictable. Here's a sample

Public Execution. end of.

Bring back hanging that'll sort the c**ts out!!! That's the problem here very light sentences!!

It's time like this I wish we were back when they threw the likes of this scumbag to the lions

Dont put him in productive custody... Leave him in with the main population & let the prison officers turn their backs

The worst article Ive read for a long time : ( the death penalty should be brought back for these depraved people, wtf is wrong with b***ards like this

Disgusting animals & the mother of the child that let it happen, she's as bad. Anyone who does this to any child should b stripped naked & pushed into a pit full of razor blades & barb wire & have sulphuric acid poured over them to give a slow, painful death & then maybe set on fire. No little angel deserves 2 be treated like that. It's so maddening

A dog would get put down if it bit a child but scum like this are allowed to remain part of society. Death penalty is needed for such serious crimes.

Death penalty is wot is needed for sick scummy peados like him #rotten #evil #twistedppl

mad muffin

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

The latest Child Care Law Reporting Project featured some pretty grim stories, including this one.

A man was caught attempting to sexually abuse his infant daughter on a webcam. He did so unaware he was chatting to a policeman in another jurisdiction. The Gardaí were called, the man was arrested, and the child was placed into foster care.

In the court case that followed, the child's mother said she accepted that the father was responsible for child pornography on his computer and had possibly already abused their child.

The reactions on Facebook have been predictable. Here's a sample

I agree with all those sentiments. Anyone abusing children doesn't deserve to live.

bear1

Every month we have these threads which always go in the same direction.
There shouldn't be any death penalty, it's not the dark ages for God's sake.
Take a look at what happened in the States recently where the guy was practically tortured to death.
Life imprisonment without any chance of parole would satisfy me no problem, stuck in a room with a bunch of hardened criminals until you die is probably worse than being killed immediately.
Someone mentioned the guy who tried to abuse his daughter via webcam. I've seen many documentaries about prison life and the one thing they do not tolerate is the molestation of a child.
I would hazard a guess that once they find out it will only be a matter of time before he will wish he is dead.
Capital punishment is not the solution.

Thud

I voted yes but if "the scumbag" hadn't died and was dying on the street and you knew he had just carjacked the car would you call an ambulance or let him die there?

catallus

God****ingdammit! How the hell did I miss this death-penalty thread?

Is there some secret forum where these threads are born and then they are thrown into AH?

This has to be against someone's human rights, surely?

GreeBo

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Prisons should simply deprive criminals of the freedom to live in society.
We put people in prisons to keep them out of circulation to protect ourselves.
Inflicting revenge has no effect on criminals.

Criminals dont form part of the society; they are outside of it by choice already, by being criminals and ignoring laws.

Hotale.com

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh and he died such a death too.

Arm ripped off in the crash and bled to death as his "mate" ran off. Couldn't be more delighted.

Are you sick in the head?

bear1

Hotale.com wrote: »

Are you sick in the head?

T'was a bit much tbh

Plazaman

Death penalty is very harsh for joyriding. However I would adapt the Far Eastern methods of punishment where if you steal, a hand is cut off. Steal twice, you're handless.

When I hear of people going to court with 70, 80 and 90 previous convictions, I think it would just be better to surgically disable them in some way so it'd be physically impossible for them to reoffend.

Sure the State would have to support them but I reckon about €10,000 per year for Disability payments and possibly that again in Medical Card cover still beats the €80,000 - €100,000 per year cost of prison life.

Too controversial?

Cue hippy type human rightsters whinging in 3....2....1....

Hotale.com

Plazaman wrote: »

Death penalty is very harsh for joyriding. However I would adapt the Far Eastern methods of punishment where if you steal, a hand is cut off. Steal twice, you're handless.

When I hear of people going to court with 70, 80 and 90 previous convictions, I think it would just be better to surgically disable them in some way so it'd be physically impossible for them to reoffend.

Sure the State would have to support them but I reckon about €10,000 per year for Disability payments and possibly that again in Medical Card cover still beats the €80,000 - €100,000 per year cost of prison life.

Too controversial?

Cue hippy type human rightsters whinging in 3....2....1....

They never have to pay that because of all the suspended sentences.. :rolleyes:

I don't agree with you because it seems like a ridiculously harsh punishment for stealing once. Maybe if it was their 80th/90th offence it would be a small bit more reasonable.

With regards to the "human rightsers", do you not think yourself that it's a small bit inhumane? What if someone gets framed?

mad muffin

Hotale.com wrote: »

Are you sick in the head?

bear1 wrote: »

T'was a bit much tbh

You guys are too soft.

These are the kind of scum that make life a misery for everyone around them.

bear1

mad muffin wrote: »

You guys are too soft.

These are the kind of scum that make life a misery for everyone around them.

Id agree that they can make life a misery, but killing them isnt the answer. Life sentences are whats needed.

old hippy

mad muffin wrote: »

Oh and he died such a death too.

Arm ripped off in the crash and bled to death as his "mate" ran off. Couldn't be more delighted.

I've really missed the well though out, balanced & incisive commentary on AH.

mad muffin

bear1 wrote: »

Id agree that they can make life a misery, but killing them isnt the answer. Life sentences are whats needed.

I didn't say it was but I'm not too upset he killed himself in the course of committing a crime. It's not like they were innocent young kids mowed down in the prime of their lives, with so much to contribute to society.

old hippy wrote: »

I've really missed the well though out, balanced & incisive commentary on AH.

I'm sorry it didn't get me in the feels.

Hotale.com

mad muffin wrote: »

I didn't say it was but I'm not too upset he killed himself in the course of committing a crime. It's not like they were innocent young kids mowed down in the prime of their lives, with so much to contribute to society..

Not too upset is far, far different to "delighted".

I'm not too upset either tbh, doesn't mean I'd prefer he was dead than alive.

old hippy

mad muffin wrote: »

I didn't say it was but I'm not too upset he killed himself in the course of committing a crime. It's not like they were innocent young kids mowed down in the prime of their lives, with so much to contribute to society.




I'm sorry it didn't get me in the feels.

There certainly seemed to be feeling in your euphoric delight...

end of the road

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

The latest Child Care Law Reporting Project featured some pretty grim stories, including this one.

A man was caught attempting to sexually abuse his infant daughter on a webcam. He did so unaware he was chatting to a policeman in another jurisdiction. The Gardaí were called, the man was arrested, and the child was placed into foster care.

In the court case that followed, the child's mother said she accepted that the father was responsible for child pornography on his computer and had possibly already abused their child.

The reactions on Facebook have been predictable. Here's a sample

yeah but these people you quoted sound like they are ferrel themselves so of course they will come out with drivel like this, nobody takes them seriously or takes note of anything they have to say

TwoShedsJackson

Should a civlised society not be above executing it's citizens? You know, not sinking to the same level as the 'scum' and all that?

mad muffin

Hotale.com wrote: »

Not too upset is far, far different to "delighted".

I'm not too upset either tbh, doesn't mean I'd prefer he was dead than alive.

Lived to commit more crimes? Lived to be a burden on society? Prison is no deterrent for people like him. It's probably his second home. Sooner or later death comes a calling, in his case I suppose it came a bit sooner.

old hippy wrote: »

There certainly seemed to be feeling in your euphoric delight...

Meh.