Clare v Cork take 3, Munster semi final - Mod Warning Post #39

GrandSoftDay

Cork by far the better team today. Our lads looked rusty and made poor decisions all through the game. Colin Ryan had a shocker I thought, hooked and blocked a few time coupled to a couple of very bad wides. Podge, Tk and our midfield weren't in the game at al. Dillon and Pat O Connor the only 2 I though performed near their best. Huge room for improvement. Every man and his dog could see the ref gave some soft frees to Cork, more annoying than the resulting scores that came from them though was the way it ruined the flow of the game. There was no need for Davy to ramble on in the interview with his usual sh1te about him. Well done to Cork anyway, regardless of the ref ye did most of the hurling today and are deserved winners. Horgan has some talent!

Pringle12345

ANXIOUS wrote: »

As an absolute nuetral, ref gave odd decisions didn't alter the course of the match. Nash May not start again, now the penalties have been taken out. He was extremely poor today.

Yes it is all because of his pens that he starts. Do you know anything? How was he "extremely poor"?

adrian522

I love when people come on after the match to criticise others predictions. Doesn't take much knowledge to do that.

Fireball07

Clareman wrote: »

Kelly is still only 20, it can be hard to remember that from time to time.

I know that... and Hannon was only 20 when he missed those frees in Croker.


They are both young, both have loads of talent, and both will probably be even better than they are now (hard for Kelly to top Hurler of the Year), but Hannon was poor then, and Kelly was poor today. And both are hugely important players for their team.

I reckon Kelly would have benefited from a rest, but even then, he's never a player who constantly dictates the flow of the game, that has never been his style really. He excels at picking up loose ball, and is capable of picking up 2/3 points a game. If he gets on the ball regularly in a match, he will destroy teams.

999/112

slegs wrote: »

How did this Clare team win an All Ireland?

By scoring goals and points.

ANXIOUS

Pringle12345 wrote: »

Yes it is all because of his pens that he starts. Do you know anything? How was he "extremely poor"?

Did you not see the goals that he conceded? His puck outs were weak.

Professey Chin

Pringle12345 wrote: »

Yes it is all because of his pens that he starts. Do you know anything? How was he "extremely poor"?

To be fair he was bad for the 2 goals. Made a mess of swiping twice at the 1st & completely missed the 2nd when he came for it

999/112

Clareman wrote: »

Today summed up Davy, things didn't go right for him so he blames things out of his control and he also cowered behind Louis Mulqueen and Daddy to let them take the flack for him. If he was willing to castigate the ref at half time he should have manned up and met him at the start of the second half, no doubt there'll be some excuse as to why he was late out/last man out.

Tis that Miwadi... makes you want to P all the time.

overmantle

Clareman wrote: »

Today summed up Davy, things didn't go right for him so he blames things out of his control and he also cowered behind Louis Mulqueen and Daddy to let them take the flack for him. If he was willing to castigate the ref at half time he should have manned up and met him at the start of the second half, no doubt there'll be some excuse as to why he was late out/last man out.

The true test of someone's character is to be able to be gracious in defeat. I thought after the first drawn All-Ireland Final in 2013, that Davy Fitzgerald couldn't possibly be more ungracious. Only after winning the All-Ireland Final replay, did Davy Fitzgerald have a begrudgingly good word to say about his opponents, Cork.

I reckoned that someone had taken him aside to say that criticising the referee and criticising his opponents and then saying that he's not going to say anything about that (having just said it), shows a lack of judgement, a lack of sportsmanship and a distinct lack of class. Watching his comments tonight on the news, it's a case of 'deja vu'. Exactly the same kind of behaviour.

I would be quite confident that Clare will most likely be in the shake up towards the end of the Hurling Championship 2014 but frankly, Davy Fitzgerald isn't gaining much respect for his most ungracious behaviour.

MacBizzle

Do the Clare crowd ever travel!? I was at the Cork vs. Kilkenny/Clare vs. Galway QFs last year and there might have been 2000 Clare crowd at it out of 30000ish, didn't look much better today either, or the SF against Limerick last year...

Fireball07

Horgan was class on the frees, and the first goal in particular was a big moment in the game but Kearney was Cork's best player.

marco_polo

MacBizzle wrote: »

Do the Clare crowd ever travel!? I was at the Cork vs. Kilkenny/Clare vs. Galway QFs last year and there might have been 2000 Clare crowd at it out of 30000ish, didn't look much better today either, or the SF against Limerick last year...

We're not that great for the population of the county to be fair, not sure if its maybe simply the case that the core hurling support isn't that huge (I wouldn't describe Ennis as a GAA hotbed and its all football out west), but some of my countymen appear from everywhere if there a final to be attended.

Fireball07

I don't know what the split was like today, and Clare haven't travelled in great numbers in recent years, but I will say that if you are looking at it on tv... red stands out a lot more than other colours. (Although the yellow is more prominent than most).


I just remember at the Munster final last year on the Sunday Game, you'd have sworn Cork outnumbered Limerick 2 to 1, but at the match, you could clearly see that the opposite was true.

marco_polo

Good point that is true too, numbers may not be that great but its nowhere near as bad as it looks on TV, there was the whole wear saffron campaign last year as you tend to have a large portion of the Clare weaing mostly blue as well or indeed no colors at all.

Anonymou

Davy could do with taking a leaf out of JBM's book and learning to have a bit of grace,absolutely horrible attitude for an inter-county manager, its even more galling that he is in charge of a wonderful bunch of hurlers. I wonder could he ever just congratulate a team on defeating his team without throwing in a few snarky comments? On the match great win for Cork,very sloppy goals given away but overall a very accomplished performance. Clare have a lot more to give than was seen today, no where near their end of season performances in 2013.

goose2005

Cork's population is more than 4 times Clare's.

MacBizzle

goose2005 wrote: »

Cork's population is more than 4 times Clare's.

I'll admit our attendance record isn't great either, but there's a massive football following in the west that have very little interest in going to hurling matches, about a third of our population maybe.

donnem33

does anyone else think that both podge collins and tony kelly could be suffering a bit from burnout? both played nowhere near their full potential today. both played fitzgibbon and kelly has been playing with the u21's and podge with the footballers. Neither really have gotten much of a break since last year and im sure all that training (including having to play with their respective clubs) must take its toll on the body.

Its very hard to play with multiple teams continuously and also to be a dual star. I know the cork lads are playing well this year, but the difference being none of them were involved last year and have only come into the set up this year. I know as a galway man, back in 2001 when alan kerins was a dual player - it was widely accepted that he excelled in neither code that particular year and had to make a call on which sport to concentrate on.

shockframe

donnem33 wrote: »

does anyone else think that both podge collins and tony kelly could be suffering a bit from burnout? both played nowhere near their full potential today. both played fitzgibbon and kelly has been playing with the u21's and podge with the footballers. Neither really have gotten much of a break since last year and im sure all that training (including having to play with their respective clubs) must take its toll on the body.

Its very hard to play with multiple teams continuously and also to be a dual star. I know the cork lads are playing well this year, but the difference being none of them were involved last year and have only come into the set up this year. I know as a galway man, back in 2001 when alan kerins was a dual player - it was widely accepted that he excelled in neither code that particular year and had to make a call on which sport to concentrate on.

The cork dual players have played a lot more high intensity football this year than podge collins has done with clare.Outside the waterford game last weekend Podge only has played 30 minutes of football for clare in the last 3 months.

Kelly could do with a break maybe but reading an article about him during the week would suggest that he's keen to play as much as he wants.He only really got going late last year so who's to say he wont do similar in a few weeks.

There'll be a few thoeries as to why they were beaten but Clare looked flat and it wasnt all that different in the gaelic grounds last year.

Cork had to put last year right so would have had more motivation than Clare did. Today Clare were off the pace but Davy's sides have never been swashbuckling in Munster but are still a handful for teams later on.

I dont believe Clare will be a team for back to back all irelands. If they win more than one it could be like 1995 and 1997 cycle victories.

Fireball07

donnem33 wrote: »

does anyone else think that both podge collins and tony kelly could be suffering a bit from burnout? both played nowhere near their full potential today. both played fitzgibbon and kelly has been playing with the u21's and podge with the footballers. Neither really have gotten much of a break since last year and im sure all that training (including having to play with their respective clubs) must take its toll on the body.

Its very hard to play with multiple teams continuously and also to be a dual star. I know the cork lads are playing well this year, but the difference being none of them were involved last year and have only come into the set up this year. I know as a galway man, back in 2001 when alan kerins was a dual player - it was widely accepted that he excelled in neither code that particular year and had to make a call on which sport to concentrate on.

It's not impossible that this is true, but probably a bit early to say. Collins was supposed to be a doubt during the week, that might have played a part too.


Tbh, I don't even know what position Kelly was playing... can anybody at the match tell me? He really didn't get on the ball much at all, normally you see him popping up all over the place.

Santa Cruz

Hidalgo wrote: »

A similar argument could have been made when these sides let at the same stage last year, look how that turned out as the summer progressed.

I agree. But performance doesn't improve by itself. A good look at the management from the line and some players reactions is needed. There's still five counties, including Clare, that know they have it in them to go all the way

djPSB

donnem33 wrote: »

does anyone else think that both podge collins and tony kelly could be suffering a bit from burnout? both played nowhere near their full potential today. both played fitzgibbon and kelly has been playing with the u21's and podge with the footballers. Neither really have gotten much of a break since last year and im sure all that training (including having to play with their respective clubs) must take its toll on the body.

Its very hard to play with multiple teams continuously and also to be a dual star. I know the cork lads are playing well this year, but the difference being none of them were involved last year and have only come into the set up this year. I know as a galway man, back in 2001 when alan kerins was a dual player - it was widely accepted that he excelled in neither code that particular year and had to make a call on which sport to concentrate on.

The quality of ball they were provided with was poor compared to last year.

A lot of the ball played to them yesterday was 50;50 which suited Cork.

Amprodude

niallo27 wrote: »

Were you not watching it.

I was and what happened? 8-9 points you said Clare would win?

I know Clare won the all Ireland last year but seriously I think they are a bit overrated to be fair. They made hard work putting a poor Cork side away last year in the two games and only for a crazy misfiring Limerick in the Semi I honestly think they wouldn't have won and made the final. Hard to see them in the later stages of the Championship this year.

Rightwing

Amprodude wrote: »

I was and what happened? 8-9 points you said Clare would win?

I know Clare won the all Ireland last year but seriously I think they are a bit overrated to be fair. They made hard work putting a poor Cork side away last year in the two games and only for a crazy misfiring Limerick in the Semi I honestly think they wouldn't have won and made the final. Hard to see them in the later stages of the Championship this year.

Indeed. Clare have to win a munster title, or else, that run they went on last year was little more than a fluke.

Rightwing

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't know what the split was like today, and Clare haven't travelled in great numbers in recent years, but I will say that if you are looking at it on tv... red stands out a lot more than other colours. (Although the yellow is more prominent than most).


I just remember at the Munster final last year on the Sunday Game, you'd have sworn Cork outnumbered Limerick 2 to 1, but at the match, you could clearly see that the opposite was true.

Last year was rather funny, almost everyone had a green jersey and a red sunburnt face

MacBizzle

Rightwing wrote: »

Indeed. Clare have to win a munster title, or else, that run they went on last year was little more than a fluke.

You could say the same about Limerick winning Munster last year after flopping in the SF. This Clare team definitely have quality and last year was from a fluke imo. They destroyed Galway, Limerick and arguably Cork as well. Well deserved winning the All-Ireland last year.

That said, I don't think they're half the team people are trying to make them out to be, winning one All-Ireland doesn't mean they'll go in a run like Kilkenny did in the past few hears.

MacBizzle

Rightwing wrote: »

Indeed. Clare have to win a munster title, or else, that run they went on last year was little more than a fluke.

You could say the same about Limerick winning Munster last year after flopping in the SF. This Clare team definitely have quality and last year was from a fluke imo. They destroyed Galway, Limerick and arguably Cork as well. Well deserved winning the All-Ireland last year.

That said, I don't think they're half the team people are trying to make them out to be, winning one All-Ireland doesn't mean they'll go in a run like Kilkenny did in the past few years.

Rightwing

MacBizzle wrote: »

You could say the same about Limerick winning Munster last year after flopping in the SF. This Clare team definitely have quality and last year was from a fluke imo. They destroyed Galway, Limerick and arguably Cork as well. Well deserved winning the All-Ireland last year.

That said, I don't think they're half the team people are trying to make them out to be, winning one All-Ireland doesn't mean they'll go in a run like Kilkenny did in the past few years.

Limerick have to win another munster or the all ireland, no question about that.

zetecescort

Tinfoil hats as well as Miwadi needed in Clare!

“Listen, I will deal with this in my own way. There is something I might speak about at the end of the year. There is something that is going to have to be looked at because I knew something was going to happen today before the game even happened. If you know that going into a game you are wasting your time.”



http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/disgruntled-davy-feels-hard-done-by-but-admits-rebels-deserved-win-272200.html#.U57eK3tYuTk.twitter

Fireball07

Davy talks some amount of shíte, he also didn't sound happy about the dual players.

Rightwing

zetecescort wrote: »

Tinfoil hats as well as Miwadi needed in Clare!

“Listen, I will deal with this in my own way. There is something I might speak about at the end of the year. There is something that is going to have to be looked at because I knew something was going to happen today before the game even happened. If you know that going into a game you are wasting your time.”



http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/disgruntled-davy-feels-hard-done-by-but-admits-rebels-deserved-win-272200.html#.U57eK3tYuTk.twitter

I'll give him some credit, he's not afraid to speak out and put pressure on refs, and thereby the authorities.

Zardoz

zetecescort wrote: »

“Listen, I will deal with this in my own way. There is something I might speak about at the end of the year. There is something that is going to have to be looked at because I knew something was going to happen today before the game even happened. If you know that going into a game you are wasting your time.”

The GAA should charge him with bringing the game into disrepute.
He is trying to soften up the refs so his players can get away with fouling later on in the championship.

His backs were fouling from the get go yesterday,constant ,niggly on and off the ball stuff .
His players couldnt cope with Corks fitness and tactics so they resorted to underhand tactics and the referee rightly pulled them up on it .
Its not the refs fault Clare kept on committing fouls.

lukin

Fireball07 wrote: »

Davy talks some amount of shíte, he also didn't sound happy about the dual players.

He didn't have a problem with it until today (because they got beat). Is Podge Collins the only dual player they have anyway?

Fireball07

lukin wrote: »

He didn't have a problem with it until today (because they got beat). Is Podge Collins the only dual player they have anyway?

Sean as well.

lukin

Fireball07 wrote: »

Sean as well.

OK two dual players. Hardly a legitimate excuse when he went on record earlier in the year saying he had no problem with them playing football.

999/112

Zardoz wrote: »

The GAA should charge him with bringing the game into disrepute.
He is trying to soften up the refs so his players can get away with fouling later on in the championship.

His backs were fouling from the get go yesterday,constant ,niggly on and off the ball stuff .
His players couldnt cope with Corks fitness and tactics so they resorted to underhand tactics and the referee rightly pulled them up on it .
Its not the refs fault Clare kept on committing fouls.

They should start diving as well.

dirkmeister

Christ, that's insane stuff that he is coming out with.

Cork's penalty was a stone wall decision and he brings that up. James McGrath wasn't the reason Clare got beaten yesterday.

niallo27

Does anyone remember the ref picking the ball up to bring it 13 metres forward and he ran a good 30 metres with it. What was with only two minutes injury time. Should we just ignore his performance and blame Davy.

Figsy32

niallo27 wrote: »

Does anyone remember the ref picking the ball up to bring it 13 metres forward and he ran a good 30 metres with it. What was with only two minutes injury time. Should we just ignore his performance and blame Davy.

Nobody's saying ignore his performance. Everyone acknowledges it wasn't great. Not a single poster said he did well.

The key point though is that it wasn't the ref's performance that lost Clare the match. The reason they lost is because Cork were by far the better team.

People are getting on Davy's back because he's an ungracious loser who's first reaction to all defeats is to blame others.

Fireball07

I am absolutely 100% certain that within the Clare camp they won't be blaming the ref and feeling sorry for themselves. If they do, they won't win anything this year.

They were nowhere near good enough, and will definitely realise that. The ref was poor on the day but Clare were well off the pace, particularly in the 2nd half.

Browney7

Love how he always brings stuff up and then goes "ahhhhhh heeeere now you know as well as I do but sure I'm not going to get into that". If you're not going to get into it why bring it up in the first place :rolleyes:

In fairness he's doing a Ferguson/Mourinho and trying to take the heat off the players performance not being up to scratch and trying to deflect so fair play to him doing the best for his team.

niallo27

Figsy32 wrote: »

Nobody's saying ignore his performance. Everyone acknowledges it wasn't great. Not a single poster said he did well.

The key point though is that it wasn't the ref's performance that lost Clare the match. The reason they lost is because Cork were by far the better team.

People are getting on Davy's back because he's an ungracious loser who's first reaction to all defeats is to blame others.

He is hardly the first manager to deflect the attention away from his own players. I think too much is made of everything he says. I think the match was lost in the sideline myself with bizarre substitutions and poor tactics.

Mountainlad

Fireball07 wrote: »

I am absolutely 100% certain that within the Clare camp they won't be blaming the ref and feeling sorry for themselves. If they do, they won't win anything this year.

They were nowhere near good enough, and will definitely realise that. The ref was poor on the day but Clare were well off the pace, particularly in the 2nd half.

They will, because there being led to believe is that what everyone wants most in the world is to see Clare lose. The reality is most people wanted them to win of the 4 teams left in the competition last year.

Him being in charge though, leaves a sour taste for me.

GrandSoftDay

Fireball07 wrote: »

I am absolutely 100% certain that within the Clare camp they won't be blaming the ref and feeling sorry for themselves. If they do, they won't win anything this year.

They were nowhere near good enough, and will definitely realise that. The ref was poor on the day but Clare were well off the pace, particularly in the 2nd half.

It's funny, we have always seemed well off the mark at this stage of the year under Davy. I wonder has there been very heavy training going on too close to championship, could well be a lot of the cause of it. There's a lot of sh1te being spouted on various forums about player unrest in the camp etc but we were no better at this stage last year when cork ran us out of Limerick. From no 8 to 15 we didn't click at all and we know what they are capable of when they do. I see lads calling for Pat Donnelan and Bugler to be dropped and move TK to midfield and Morey to wing back but I think we would be lacking leadership in a big way if we did. Has been way too much stuff in the media aswell recently going into every detail of their lives, in the last week alone I have read a bio of podge and Tony Kelly in online articles aswell as Louis Mulqueen saying they want Gary Brennan to come play for the hurlers and he's the county football captain. Ridiculous stuff to be honest. There has been too much hype and media attention surrounding them. They are a lot better than they played yesterday and maybe that loss will be the kick in the hole they need to remotivate them for this year. The ref made a balls of the match and had some terrible calls but Cork would have won either way . Wish Davy would either say what he's ''not saying anything about'' or say nothing at all. Too much shadow boxing and mind games with him. Thought it was lousy the dig he had at our 2 dual players aswell given their father is managing the footballers. Cheap shot.

Hitchens

Davy is worth the admission price on his own

savannahkat

The headlines in the papers and even here it is mostly about Davy and his antics with little enough analysis of his team and their performance. Last year has nothing to do with this year. This year Clare are the champions and every one wants to beat them. That is life and life as it should be. There is no place to hide when you are champions. Every game Clare play this year is an All Ireland final for the opposition and that is what Clare have to face in every game only now one more loss and they are gone.

citykat

From a neutral’s perspective: had expected Clare to win prior to the game tbh. Am surprised at how poorly their main men played: Kelly, Galvin, Ryan, Collins. Couldn’t see it really on the box but Duignan kept on referring to Clare’s formation esp in the forwards. However, there’s no getting away from how Cork were just the better team yesterday. Yes they got an awful lot of frees but I believe most of them were correct calls. Clare didn’t seem prepared to want to work hard and tackle legitimately. Cork were hungrier and it showed particularly in the performance of Walsh and Kearney at MF. Both worked hard to win ball and were rewarded with scores of their own.

Having said that, I thought Cork were wrongly awarded the free from which they scored their first goal. Suppose when your luck is in… Thought both goalies had poor games yesterday. Goalkeeping is simple – you’re going to be judged on how many goals you concede and how you concede them, nothing else. IMO all four goals yesterday were stoppable. The Clare goalie was caught napping for the first and even for the second only put his hands on the hurl at the last second. Nash panicked for the first and was all at sea with his defender for the second. Given the amount of training these guys do together this is inexcusable.

He gets an awful lot of stick from the Cork fans but I thought Cronin had a storming last ten minutes. He was showing for and winning ball and laying it off to others. When Cork needed somebody to show a bit of leadership he stepped up. Fair dues.

Cork are a better team than last year and if they stay injury free and retain their appetite, they’re going to take stopping.

TCDStudent1

Rightwing wrote: »

Limerick have to win another munster or the all ireland, no question about that.

To prove what? They need to win another Munster to prove they were worthy Munster champions in 2013? That doesnt make any sense....

Hidalgo

djPSB wrote: »

The quality of ball they were provided with was poor compared to last year.

A lot of the ball played to them yesterday was 50;50 which suited Cork.

I think you have to give Cork credit for the lack of quality ball Clare hit to their forwards, Cork dominated the middle sector which gave them a platform. When Clare did get ball around the middle, the pressure exerted from Cork was top class resulting in hurried ball.

Another positive for Cork was the covering of open space at the back.
The only time Conor McGrath got a run on his man was when he caught a bouncing ball in his right hand out under the New Stand. He fake to go in, his man fell for it and before he knew what was happening, McGrath was gone on the outside. For a second the entire thing opened up and a potential goal chance was there. However Ellis (I think) fell back into the open space and cut off any any path to goal that may have been there.
Excellent awareness and reactions to avert and snuff out the danger before it got out of hand.

keeponhurling

Hidalgo wrote: »

I think you have to give Cork credit for the lack of quality ball Clare hit to their forwards, Cork dominated the middle sector which gave them a platform. When Clare did get ball around the middle, the pressure exerted from Cork was top class resulting in hurried ball.

Another positive for Cork was the covering of open space at the back.
The only time Conor McGrath got a run on his man was when he caught a bouncing ball in his right hand out under the New Stand. He fake to go in, his man fell for it and before he knew what was happening, McGrath was gone on the outside. For a second the entire thing opened up and a potential goal chance was there. However Ellis (I think) fell back into the open space and cut off any any path to goal that may have been there.
Excellent awareness and reactions to avert and snuff out the danger before it got out of hand.

That's very true,
A lot of Clare's scores last year came from one of the midfielders or even half backs driving through, drawing the tackle and hand passing to a man in space.
Very little of that and it's credit to the Cork half forwards and midfield.

It's a small thing but none of the half back line scored. Their job isn't to score as such, but on other days they chip in with a few points.

It was largely high balls in top of Duggan, with mixed success