Bonus Marks for answering through Irish

Daithi MacG

MathsManiac originally posted this here: www [dot] boards [dot] ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63916239
I spent a good bit of time looking for this and not really knowing how the bonus marks are awarded even though I do some subjects through Irish so I thought it might be worth repeating for some of you. Hopefully this helps anyone trying to figure it out.

If you score 60%, you'll get 6% added in a subject that attracts 10%.

Of course, it's not done on the percentage, it's done on the mark. Suppose there's a subject that's marked out of 400 and gets the bonus at the rate of 5%. Then, for marks up to 300 (which is 75% of 400), the bonus is a straight 5% of what you got. If you scored 240 marks (60%), you would get 5% of 240, which is 12 marks, giving you 252 out of 400 (66%). If the calculation doesn't go evenly, the mark is rounded down. (E.g., if you 239 marks, your bonus would be only 11 marks even though 5% of 239 is 11.95.)

If you get more than 75% the "sliding scale" kicks in. Examiners get a table telling them how many marks to award, to save them having to work it out, but it's easy enough: you subtract your mark from the total, and get three times the percentage of that. So, if it's a 400 mark paper attracting 5%, and if you got 340 marks out of 400, (which is more than 75%) you subtract 340 from 400, giving 60), and then get 15% of that, which is 9 marks, giving you a final total of 349.

Some of the marking schemes have all of the above information in them, but not all of them do. For an example of one that does, see the last page of the 2009 higher level maths scheme: www [dot] examinations [dot] ie/archive/m...03ALP000EV.pdf


(Replace the [dot]'s in the URLs with a .)

Shanemac28

Daithi MacG wrote: »

MathsManiac originally posted this here: www [dot] boards [dot] ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63916239
I spent a good bit of time looking for this and not really knowing how the bonus marks are awarded even though I do some subjects through Irish so I thought it might be worth repeating for some of you. Hopefully this helps anyone trying to figure it out.

If you score 60%, you'll get 6% added in a subject that attracts 10%.

Of course, it's not done on the percentage, it's done on the mark. Suppose there's a subject that's marked out of 400 and gets the bonus at the rate of 5%. Then, for marks up to 300 (which is 75% of 400), the bonus is a straight 5% of what you got. If you scored 240 marks (60%), you would get 5% of 240, which is 12 marks, giving you 252 out of 400 (66%). If the calculation doesn't go evenly, the mark is rounded down. (E.g., if you 239 marks, your bonus would be only 11 marks even though 5% of 239 is 11.95.)

If you get more than 75% the "sliding scale" kicks in. Examiners get a table telling them how many marks to award, to save them having to work it out, but it's easy enough: you subtract your mark from the total, and get three times the percentage of that. So, if it's a 400 mark paper attracting 5%, and if you got 340 marks out of 400, (which is more than 75%) you subtract 340 from 400, giving 60), and then get 15% of that, which is 9 marks, giving you a final total of 349.

Some of the marking schemes have all of the above information in them, but not all of them do. For an example of one that does, see the last page of the 2009 higher level maths scheme: www [dot] examinations [dot] ie/archive/m...03ALP000EV.pdf


(Replace the [dot]'s in the URLs with a .)

For French, can you answer the very last comprehension question in Irish and get an extra 5% of your marks or is it different?

Daithi MacG

Shanemac28 wrote: »

For French, can you answer the very last comprehension question in Irish and get an extra 5% of your marks or is it different?

You also need to answer the listening in Irish, which can be tricky. Usually I use a pencil and write notes in English, then write out the full answers in Irish. But if you do both of those, then yeah you'll get the bonus marks. Well worth for French if you ask me

Shanemac28

Daithi MacG wrote: »

You also need to answer the listening in Irish, which can be tricky. Usually I use a pencil and write notes in English, then write out the full answers in Irish. But if you do both of those, then yeah you'll get the bonus marks. Well worth for French if you ask me

Oh yes I forgot about the listening! Would the marking scheme be more lenient in Irish? If you had the main gist of the answer in Irish just not worded completely correct, would you get full marks or?

Daithi MacG

Shanemac28 wrote: »

Oh yes I forgot about the listening! Would the marking scheme be more lenient in Irish? If you had the main gist of the answer in Irish just not worded completely correct, would you get full marks or?

Not quite sure to be honest, if there are some really specific words that you don't know in Irish just guess and put it in brackets in english next to it, but I think they also accept answers which may not be the specific word they want but are a phrase with the same meaning.

qweerty

From examinations.ie: Bonus Marks for Irish

I don't know whether I am in favour. On the one hand, I recognise that answering through Irish is a significant challenge and perhaps deserves to be rewarded. On the other, though, EU students don't get the option to answer (and achieve bonus marks) in their mother tongue, and non-Irish-speaking students aren't given an opportunity to achieve extra marks in some other way. In effect, the scheme gives a certain subset of the cohort an opportunity to score extra points, something that is deprived of others. Also, I think one should be limited to a maximum improvement of a sub-grade; as it is, if someone scores 69 % in a majority of subjects, they will improve from a C1 to a B2.

Daithi MacG

qweerty wrote: »

I don't know whether I am in favour. On the one hand, I recognise that answering through Irish is a significant challenge and perhaps deserves to be rewarded. On the other, though, EU students don't get the option to answer (and achieve bonus marks) in their mother tongue, and non-Irish-speaking students aren't given an opportunity to achieve extra marks in some other way. In effect, the scheme gives a certain subset of the cohort an opportunity to score extra points, something that is deprived of others. Also, I think one should be limited to a maximum improvement of a sub-grade; as it is, if someone scores 69 % in a majority of subjects, they will improve from a C1 to a B2.

I also found that link, but thought the other link I posted was more comprehensive for the upwards of 75%.
Yeah I guess it is a little unfair...not complaining though, I'll take any advantage I can get.

FatRat

I answer through Irish but I don't really like the bonus marks scheme. It doesn't award high-achieving students... If I get 87% in a test for example I'd expect that I'd be pushed up to an A1 thanks to the irish bonus but it doesn't happen simply because the higher the mark the less of a bonus you get. The effort it takes to learn certain subjects essentially in 2 languages (physics for example) is huge.. not to mind getting 87% through Irish.


Those who think Irish is dead and only have bad things to say about it obviously would be skeptical about the idea of awarding those who answer through it but we're keeping the language alive and that's important to a lot of people and our culture. Not to get too sentimental about it but that's the reason why we are rewarded.

mossintor

no!no!no! im absolutely devastated...i think im after losing my bonus. I had one small little word in english, everything else through perfect irish,am i screwed or is there a divine saviour to save me from this mess???? please tell me what i want to hear

GarIT

mossintor wrote: »

no!no!no! im absolutely devastated...i think im after losing my bonus. I had one small little word in english, everything else through perfect irish,am i screwed or is there a divine saviour to save me from this mess???? please tell me what i want to hear

If you do an exam through Irish they will just ignore any English words AFAIK. The will treat it as if you had just left a blank space.

Shanemac28 wrote: »

Would the marking scheme be more lenient in Irish? If you had the main gist of the answer in Irish just not worded completely correct, would you get full marks or?

I'm in an expert or anything on it but AFAIK the same standard is expected no matter what language you answer through.

Raspberry Fileds

mossintor wrote: »

no!no!no! im absolutely devastated...i think im after losing my bonus. I had one small little word in english, everything else through perfect irish,am i screwed or is there a divine saviour to save me from this mess???? please tell me what i want to hear

GarIT wrote: »

If you do an exam through Irish they will just ignore any English words AFAIK. The will treat it as if you had just left a blank space.

I think they'll ignore it, but a page on the SEC website says that, "Candidates who answer partly in Irish and partly in English will receive no bonus marks."

William F

Answering through the medium of Irish is a waste of time. You would prbably get the final mark anyway if you answered in English considering you spend a fair mount of time translating none Irish books.

I was always under the impression that it was 5% per cent of the marks you don't get and some subjects are even excluded like engineering and construction studies.

GarIT

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

I think they'll ignore it, but a page on the SEC website says that, "Candidates who answer partly in Irish and partly in English will receive no bonus marks."

I had thought that's if you had decided to switch halfway through, it could be a grey area though. I would assume they do whatever is in the best interests of the student.

Raspberry Fileds

GarIT wrote: »

I had thought that's if you had decided to switch halfway through, it could be a grey area though. I would assume they do whatever is in the best interests of the student.

It's characteristically ambiguous. I wish there were a technical list of all the regulations for state exams, but, after much searching on the SEC website, I'm not sure one exists.

FatRat

They accept answers with a bit of English mixed with Irish. I'm nearly certain they'll ignore a few English words in the test if their Irish translation is difficult and still give you the bonus. That said if the test has a nice few English words they won't give a bonus but they'll still mark it, counting the English.

mossintor

oh thank god! so im ok? i mean i just panicked and i wrote down the english, surely anyone with a heart would just give me the bonus right?

FatRat

mossintor wrote: »

oh thank god! so im ok? i mean i just panicked and i wrote down the english, surely anyone with a heart would just give me the bonus right?

1 english word? The corrector would have to be a serious sadist not to give you the bonus. At the very most they'll take a few marks off your bonus. As in if you were getting a 15 mark bonus they might give you 12. Thats what my teachers do when I write a bit of english.

Daithi MacG

mossintor wrote: »

oh thank god! so im ok? i mean i just panicked and i wrote down the english, surely anyone with a heart would just give me the bonus right?

Actually, they're surprisingly lenient when it comes to having a few English words on. The Irish biology teacher in my school said that, for biology anyway, they confirmed to him it has to be 90% through Irish to get the bonus marks. That's a ridiculous amount of leeway. If you only have one or two words in English, they won't take your bonus away.

robman60

FatRat wrote: »

I answer through Irish but I don't really like the bonus marks scheme. It doesn't award high-achieving students... If I get 87% in a test for example I'd expect that I'd be pushed up to an A1 thanks to the irish bonus but it doesn't happen simply because the higher the mark the less of a bonus you get. The effort it takes to learn certain subjects essentially in 2 languages (physics for example) is huge.. not to mind getting 87% through Irish.


Those who think Irish is dead and only have bad things to say about it obviously would be skeptical about the idea of awarding those who answer through it but we're keeping the language alive and that's important to a lot of people and our culture. Not to get too sentimental about it but that's the reason why we are rewarded.

Your argument is legitimate, but the reasoning is pretty simple. No one really minds if you're boosted from a B3 to a B2, but if people answering trí Ghaeilge only needed 85% for the perfect A1 people would scrutinise it far more. It would give an unfair advantage to people aiming for medicine or other high points areas beyond what most would consider acceptable.

Just out of curiosity, are you guys native Gaeilgeoirí attending schools located in Gaeltacht regions or is English your first language?

FatRat

robman60 wrote: »

Your argument is legitimate, but the reasoning is pretty simple. No one really minds if you're boosted from a B3 to a B2, but if people answering trí Ghaeilge only needed 85% for the perfect A1 people would scrutinise it far more. It would give an unfair advantage to people aiming for medicine or other high points areas beyond what most would consider acceptable.

Just out of curiosity, are you guys native Gaeilgeoirí attending schools located in Gaeltacht regions or is English your first language?

I guess but that said they don't know the effort it takes to learn everything through irish. The time we spend doing that could be time spent boosting our grade from 85 to 90. So maybe the bonus is just compensating for the effort of doing it through irish, which effects the actual learning of material. Science subjects are killer, and dont even get me started on doing aural test through irish. We have to translate the german in the tape to english in our heads and then write it down in Irish.


I was useless at Irish up until secondary school. I attended an english primary school and don't live in a gaeltacht area. Just decided to go to an Irish speaking secondary school.

Raspberry Fileds

mossintor wrote: »

i love you guys...you've made me fee so good and kept my head on track for the rest of my exams...had i been told id lost my bonus id have given up

I'd love to accept some of that very generous gratitude, but I fear my advice was a little wayward! Best of luck

mossintor

well ye're all saying the same thing so, ye must be right

The_Conductor

robman60 wrote: »

Your argument is legitimate, but the reasoning is pretty simple. No one really minds if you're boosted from a B3 to a B2, but if people answering trí Ghaeilge only needed 85% for the perfect A1 people would scrutinise it far more. It would give an unfair advantage to people aiming for medicine or other high points areas beyond what most would consider acceptable.

Just out of curiosity, are you guys native Gaeilgeoirí attending schools located in Gaeltacht regions or is English your first language?

The way it used to be- was 10% of the marks that you don't achieve could be added to your score, as a bonus for answering as Gaeilge.

Aka- if you scored 80% in an exam (and congratulations to anyone who does)- you missed out on 20%- and 10% of the 20% is 2%- so you'd get an extra 2% added to your score.

If you're borderline between grades, it might bring you over. Where it really helps- is weaker students- who are at risk of failing a subject altogether- but who answer as Gaeilge. So if you score a rather poor 34%- there are over 60% of the marks that you failed to score- 10% of which is 6%- and you're bumped over the 40% mark.

The extra marks can make a big difference to weaker students- but the stronger students will only get a marginal benefit for answering it as Gaeilge.

MathsManiac

The_Conductor wrote: »

The way it used to be- was 10% of the marks that you don't achieve could be added to your score, as a bonus for answering as Gaeilge.

Aka- if you scored 80% in an exam (and congratulations to anyone who does)- you missed out on 20%- and 10% of the 20% is 2%- so you'd get an extra 2% added to your score.

...

No, it was never calculated like that.

It has, for a very long time, been calculated the same way as it is now, (which is as I described in the post the OP referenced).

If you go back REALLY far, it used to be a straight percentage with no sliding scale (so candidates sometimes ended up with more than 100%). It hasn't been like that for at least a good few decades.