No Man's Sky

Grayditch

Have any of the people who feel hard done by ever played a Ubisoft game? :pac:

FAILSAFE 00

The No Mans Sky expansion pack.
It's everything we promised and more... Coming soon.

That's my bet. I agree with many who say they aimed too high and under delivered. I would say fair play if they let people know ahead of time that they couldn't delivery on so and so Also with a sizeable price reduction.

Charging full whack for a game with lots of promised features missing is taking the piss.

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Yeah, that article is pretty much spot on.
It highlights just how much incredible work was done by Hello Games in being true to the early trailers, acknowledges the work still to be done, and just how self indulgent and whiny people can be when faced with a game that doesn't measure up to their own ridiculous standards.

What about the gamers who were promised X, Y and Z by Hello Games.

You buy a car with features like X and Y included then you get home and relise that the features aren't installed in the car. Do you just say well it drives amazing so I'll let it slide?

Danonino.

Zillah wrote: »

I can't believe they're paying so much for second hand NMS copies. That would imply that they're paying as much or more for them wholesale? Is their cut on a PS4 game really about a tenner?

Bought for €65 in Smyth's launch day. Selling to CeX for €49 cash. CeX will buy high and leave the price in the €60/70 range until enough copies are traded to have sellable stock then drop the price rapidly.

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Should Sean Murray have been clearer or less idealistic in interviews? ..... I think his biggest crime was being excited about what he was making

One thing that struck me in a couple of his interviews: he tended to not answer the question he was asked (or answer a different question). I can't say if it was deliberate or not; perhaps it's like you say, it was just his passion coming through.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Ultimately, I'm happy with judging the game on the game itself, and all the strengths and flaws within.

If you're happy with that mate, then more power to you. But there's a hell of a gap between the game I was sold, and the game I bought. For me, in that context, judging the game on the game itself is a little too accommodating.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I am guessing they have sliced a lot of stuff out for DLC. Co-op, possibly multiplayer.

"sliced a lot of stuff"?

They gave the game a God damn lobotomy.

Danonino.

Does anyone know what triggers Lv4/5 blueprints, atlas pass 2 and things like that. I got a few theta upgrades which I guess are the top and I was on the right track but.... Man, I'm at a point where I either travel 100,000+ light years or just continue being given the same already known upgrades over and over. Been to Red/Green and Blue star systems, stopped off in the anomlies. Just nothing new happening yet there is definitely upgrades and passes to get.

Is it tied to your multitool? Your ship?
I have all warp drives and enough space, I have my multitool upgraded to where no one I find has any benefit other than extra slots. Full inventory, handed in 10 atlas stones.

Think I've either hit a point where the game has shown all its got or I'm missing something. Only ever came across Omegron (spelling) isotope once and calcium/radnox once too, So my best guess is I've avoided certain planet types or something.

Maybe I need to get closer to the centre?

Or just get some fresh air ha ha

wyrn

So I finally left my planet because the trackers seemed to have disappeared for a few monoliths around the place. I thought I could spot them from above, but no dice. Anyone else find flying a bit awkward or am I just terrible about it? I ended up doing loop the loops for about 3mins before I copped on how to leave the planet.

EoinHef

Ive plenty of inventory now for suit and multi tool,ship inventory needs work though.

I have the recipies for mats needed for warp cells so should be good for them for awhile.

Do all upgrades have to be adjacent to the item your trying to upgrade? When im looking at a new ship or multi tool the upgrades are placed all over the place. So is deleting them and reorganising/recrafting them the only way?

johnny_ultimate

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

What about the gamers who were promised X, Y and Z by Hello Games.

You buy a car with features like X and Y included then you get home and relise that the features aren't installed in the car. Do you just say well it drives amazing so I'll let it slide?

I think that analogy is a depressing, reductive way of looking at video games.

It's also possibly a depressing way of looking at cars, but I don't know much about cars.

marcbrophy

wyrn wrote: »

So I finally left my planet because the trackers seemed to have disappeared for a few monoliths around the place. I thought I could spot them from above, but no dice. Anyone else find flying a bit awkward or am I just terrible about it? I ended up doing loop the loops for about 3mins before I copped on how to leave the planet.

Just point the ship up at about 65 degrees and boost until in space! It's not rocket science!

Oh wait...

FAILSAFE 00

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think that analogy is a depressing, reductive way of looking at video games.

It's also possibly a depressing way of looking at cars, but I don't know much about cars.

The reality is depressing so my analogy is quite accurate.

it seems to be the norm now for game studios to hype their game and make promises that they don't keep. Then completely doop the gamers by not submitting review copies.

In the case of No mans sky we are then told by the bloated aristocrats that we should be happy that we have our trousers around around our ankles taking it because the game is some fancy technical achievement.

johnny_ultimate

What/who the heck is a bloated aristocrat? Sounds like something from a Roald Dahl story.

But hey, at least you didn't buy it because you were waiting for it to show up in the "bargain bins" given your pre-release reservations, right?

FAILSAFE 00

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The reality is depressing so my analogy is quite accurate.

it seems to be the norm now for game studios to hype their game and make promises that they don't keep. Then completely doop the gamers by not submitting review copies.

In the case of No mans sky we are then told by the bloated aristocrats that we should be happy that we have our trousers around around our ankles taking it because the game is some fancy technical achievement.

I bet that if this was an Xbox and PC exclusive then you'd have a very different opinion of the game.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think that analogy is a depressing, reductive way of looking at video games.

It's also possibly a depressing way of looking at cars, but I don't know much about cars.

If you are enjoying it fair play to you and for me as well who wasn't following any of the interviews or hype I only care about the game we got at the end but there's a fair few people that pre-ordered this game based on the information that Sean gave out in these interviews and saying some of these features aren't in the game just before release isn't great considering how many people ordered beforehand.

You might enjoy the final product but the fact remains that features were promised that weren't in the final game and people spent money on this game expecting those features. Brushing those facts aside because you like the game is kind of disingenuous to the people this did affect. I also don't think that Sean Murray is the villain here and he said these things due to enthusiasm for his product, people should be pointing the fingers at Sony in this case. It doesn't change the fact features were promised and not delivered and only announced as not a feature just prior to release after preorders had been collected.

Grayditch

It's one of those games I really like, but the have absolutely no desire to defend. Aside from the fact that it's a Marmite game, some of the things people have expressed disappointment with here are understandable.

Notorious

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The No Mans Sky expansion pack.
It's everything we promised and more... Coming soon.

Saw a few people mention DLC. In the weeks pre-release the team said there'd be no DLC for No Man's Sky. There'd be updates (base building, something this game doesn't need), but no paid DLC.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

...but there's a fair few people that pre-ordered this game based on the information that Sean gave out in these interviews and saying some of these features aren't in the game just before release isn't great considering how many people ordered beforehand.

I also don't that Sean Murray is the villain here and he said these things due to enthusiasm for his product, people should be pointing the fingers at Sony in this case.

I'd agree with you, but I wouldn't think Sean should be absolved of any wrongdoing. It's great that he was so enthusiastic, but he's experienced in how the industry works. Of course he thinks his product is great, but you need to be realistic at the same time.

Canis Lupus

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The No Mans Sky expansion pack.
It's everything we promised and more... Coming soon.

Now with even more planets!

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I think people are getting very worked up over features that were talked about ad nauseum online in the year ahead of release, much of which was speculation.
No one is explaining these features that were missing, I think the multiplayer feature has been well dealt with and the other ones tended to be what we had hoped were going to be present rather than anything that actually were described as being in the game.

Much of the comments seem to tend towards the inflammatory, and blatantly attention seeking.
It seems these people have never been disappointed by a full price game before, which is surprising, but perhaps they haven't been paying for games for very long.

So, if you like it keep it, the updates are sure to only make it better.
If you don't like it, trade it in, you will have lost about a tenner in thr transaction.

But, for god's sake, could people please stop using this to promote some nonsense persecution complex, that Sean and his team were deliberately setting out to defraud and mislead people. It's just childish and pathetic tbh.

No one is saying they set out to do it but they did mislead people. That is irrefutable. They aimed very high and couldn't deliver. Sean himself conducted countless interviews where he mentioned many features that were going to be in No mans sky that were not delivered in the game.

Take a look at the list of missing features.

Planetary physics.
Ship classes with meaningful differentiation.
Faction reputation with meaningful gameplay impact.
Homogenous resource availability.
Asteroid landings.
Space station and fleet destruction.
Large fleets.
Traveling freighters.
Large scale battles the player can join.
In-atmosphere battles.
NPCs outside trading posts and other docks.
Ringed planets.
Sand planets.
Flying between stars (as opposed to warping via the Galactic interface).
Complex creature behaviour including environmental interaction.
Rivers.
Points of interest such as large structures and crashed freighters.
Hacking locked doors.
Radio chatter.
Interaction with other players.

The bottom line is you do not state something is in a game unless it is in the game. Also if it isn't in the game after stating so the ethical thing to do is to disclose that information. Its quite deceitful to make no disclosure and then hold back review copies. Sean Murray even took to Twitter to beg game purchasers not to listen to the leaks about the game.

https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/759111898675679232

I still haven't seen any of these so called surprises. I think they were clearly concerned about the word getting out that many of the features where indeed missing from the game.

Look at one of Sean Murray's recent tweets.

https://twitter.com/NoMansSky/status/766240055069474821
So basically I am buying the alpha version of the game at a premium AAA €60 and have to wait for possibly some features to be added which by the time they are released I will have moved onto another game.

In my opinion Hello Games should be commended for what they have achieved but that should not excuse their questionable practices.

FAILSAFE 00

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

So basically I am buying the alpha version of the game at a premium AAA €60 and have to wait for possibly some features to be added which by the time they are released I will have moved onto another game.

A lot of people already have moved on: No Man's Sky playerbase declines almost 80%

johnny_ultimate

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you are enjoying it fair play to you and for me as well who wasn't following any of the interviews or hype I only care about the game we got at the end but there's a fair few people that pre-ordered this game based on the information that Sean gave out in these interviews and saying some of these features aren't in the game just before release isn't great considering how many people ordered beforehand.

I think it highlights the danger of pre-ordering once again (not the first, won't be the last). There is increasingly little reason to preorder anything - unless you want the game on day one, which really isn't a particularly great reason (I have, like everyone, preordered a game, but fully accept the risks that come with that territory). No game is released now without a huge amount of analysis, nitpicking and feedback in the hours, days and weeks after release, legitimately making it easier than ever to be an informed consumer. Just look at this thread - anybody coming in here will read plenty of negative feedback and some positive too. But people are equally happy to preorder based on marketing and PR alone. Publishers have normalised and encouraged it, and alas it does more harm than good.

You might enjoy the final product but the fact remains that features were promised that weren't in the final game and people spent money on this game expecting those features. Brushing those facts aside because you like the game is kind of disingenuous to the people this did affect. I also don't think that Sean Murray is the villain here and he said these things due to enthusiasm for his product, people should be pointing the fingers at Sony in this case. It doesn't change the fact features were promised and not delivered and only announced as not a feature just prior to release after preorders had been collected.

If people are aggrieved, they're aggrieved. I'm not telling them not to be, even if I think it's worth contextualising and debating. I think the range of cut features range from the minor to 'that's a real shame' (I'd love variances in planetary gravity, among other things). I reckon several were heartbreaking to cut as the reality of shipping a game hit, while it became apparent others were either not feasible or not worth prioritising. I believe the core goal and promise of the game was achieved and then some. I think it's reductive to look at an artwork as a list of 'features', whether present or absent. I think we got a flawed but beautiful game. Everybody is free to disagree, all IMO etc

I'm not sure why you're so keen to blame Sony, TBH, beyond them probably requiring Murry to do quite a bit of PR as part of their deal. He said the things he did, even if he was talking about a work in progress and probably put in a few tight spots by interviewers' questions. I wish creators didn't have to talk about their games until they were finished, but the market and PR machine disagrees. I have plenty of sympathy for him, but would also welcome more immediately pre and post release transparency for sure (I do also appreciate the team probably have gotten very little sleep for the last few days, weeks and months). It's a very public example of the sort of editing processes I reckon all games go through over the course of development, and most of them don't ambitiously promise the sky the way this one always has.

Anyway, I hope the game becomes the game people wanted soon - I have not for a second felt hard done by or regretted my purchase, but see plenty of room for growth (and am cautiously optimistic it can be built on quite significantly through free updates). No Man's Sky highlights many of the problems with the way games are sold and bought in 2016, but above all I think it's a great game. Imperfect, more so than other great games, but great nonetheless. Its limits are often more glaring than expected, but have frequently been awestruck too. We'll see where it goes from here.

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think the range of cut features range from the minor to 'that's a real shame' (I'd love variances in planetary gravity, among other things). I reckon several were heartbreaking to cut as the reality of shipping a game hit, while it became apparent others were either not feasible or not worth prioritising.

I think the range is broader than "minor to 'that's a real shame'"... more like "minor to 'cutting the heart and soul out of the game'". And the "cutting" alone isn't the full problem; it's the cutting, then the blatant hiding of the cutting.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I believe the core goal and promise of the game was achieved and then some. I think it's reductive to look at an artwork as a list of 'features', whether present or absent. I think we got a flawed but beautiful game.

Well... maybe. No Man's Sky is undoubtedly technically brilliant, and I genuinely admire the art direction in the game. However, if that's all I wanted, I would have stuck with YouTube, screenshots, etc.

But I bought it as a game. And that's where it fell down.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Everybody is free to disagree, all IMO etc

Ditto.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Anyway, I hope the game becomes the game people wanted soon - I have not for a second felt hard done by or regretted my purchase, but see plenty of room for growth (and am cautiously optimistic it can be built on quite significantly through free updates). No Man's Sky highlights many of the problems with the way games are sold and bought in 2016, but above all I think it's a great game. Imperfect, more so than other great games, but great nonetheless. Its limits are often more glaring than expected, but have frequently been awestruck too. We'll see where it goes from here.

I honestly, honestly hope you're right - there's a great foundation for a game, but they just haven't done anything with it. Even then, it's missing the "hook". I'm constantly reminded of Destiny's launch, and how it took almost a year for that game to "settle". But there's one big difference - Bungie nailed the gunplay, they nailed the core mechanic. No Man's Sky needs to get it's core mechanics in order before it does anything else.

As you say, the game can throw genuinely awesome scenarios at you; but those moments are too few and far between to pull the game back from mediocrity. I've hit those moments myself, then despair because I know the gulf of mind-numbing boredom and frustrating design choices that lie between me and the next fleeting, awe-inspiring moment.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're so keen to blame Sony, TBH, beyond them probably requiring Murry to do quite a bit of PR as part of their deal. He said the things he did, even if he was talking about a work in progress and probably put in a few tight spots by interviewers' questions. I wish creators didn't have to talk about their games until they were finished, but the market and PR machine disagrees. I have plenty of sympathy for him, but would also welcome more immediately pre and post release transparency for sure (I do also appreciate the team probably have gotten very little sleep for the last few days, weeks and months). It's a very public example of the sort of editing processes I reckon all games go through over the course of development, and most of them don't ambitiously promise the sky the way this one always has.

Once Sony became involved it became a Triple A game with a Triple A release date that had to be delivered. Of course that might be pure speculation on my part but I doubt that I'm wrong. Really no mans sky should have been an iterative release and given more time in the oven to become the game it should of been and if it was pushed out the door to fill in for one of sony's release dry spells then it's a much worse game than it could have been.

Dickerty

Question - can you move the upgrades on your gear (e.g. Multi-tool) to get the benefits of grouping them, of you have to dismantle and start again?

Zillah

Danonino. wrote: »

Think I've either hit a point where the game has shown all its got or I'm missing something. Only ever came across Omegron (spelling) isotope once and calcium/radnox once too, So my best guess is I've avoided certain planet types or something.

You've hit the point I did. I got so sick of being awarded Multitool upgrades that I already had (because I had all of them) that I stopped even clicking on them hoping to find something new. I ran out of stuff to do pretty damn quickly.

Also similar experience with Omegon. I found one store with 49 in it relatively early, bought it all, and was about an hour away from signing off forever when I managed to find another source. You need 50 for the final jetpack upgrade, and I must have checked fifteen stations and twice as many ships in a row for someone selling the last bit needed - no luck until after I had given up.

Notorious wrote: »

There'd be updates (base building, something this game doesn't need), but no paid DLC.

Mary and Joseph, of the things broken and missing in this game something like base building is at the bottom of my list. How about you address the gaping holes and flaws in the existing mechanics before you shoe-horn in incongruous new features?

Dickerty

Dickerty wrote: »

Question - can you move the upgrades on your gear (e.g. Multi-tool) to get the benefits of grouping them, of you have to dismantle and start again?

I'm afraid you need to do it the hard way - dismantle.

EoinHef

This thread is turning into page upon page of the same arguements....

Creamy Goodness

EoinHef wrote: »

This thread is turning into page upon page of the same arguements....

It's like most threads nowadays... just look at the ps+ thread. however the last few posts have had some great discussion I must say.

Thepoet85

One thing I've taken from this experience: I'll never pre order a game I'm unsure of in the future.

Plenty on here advised against it, however I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Won't happen again.

Atomic Pineapple

A quick question regarding the hype, interviews, youtube videos etc in the build up the game release, did they actually put anyone else off buying the game?

When I initially came across No Mans Sky a year ago, I thought it looked interesting and kept an eye on it, it's something I would normally pick up so I kept tabs on it and really watched a fair amount of videos in the last 3 - 6 months on the game and this is actually when I lost interest in it, the question of what I'd actually do in the game became massive and was never answered, it became clearer and clearer with every interview and video promo that the game had no depth to it and was going to be a huge disappointment.

FAILSAFE 00

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

A quick question regarding the hype, interviews, youtube videos etc in the build up the game release, did they actually put anyone else off buying the game?

When I initially came across No Mans Sky a year ago, I thought it looked interesting and kept an eye on it, it's something I would normally pick up so I kept tabs on it and really watched a fair amount of videos in the last 3 - 6 months on the game and this is actually when I lost interest in it, the question of what I'd actually do in the game became massive and was never answered, it became clearer and clearer with every interview and video promo that the game had no depth to it and was going to be a huge disappointment.

Not really.

It was when a gamer got their hands on the game early and was giving their impression I thought there might be trouble. Then review copies not being sent out to game outlets was a big red flag.