No Man's Sky

Ponster

EoinHef wrote: »

So it works well?

One thing thats missing is being able to free your POV when flying,i bought a ship yesterday that has a glass bottom to the cockpit,be real handy if i could just look down through that when landing. I see that kinda works with a controller but im using m&kb

It works but takes a lot of getting used to. It's hard to judge how much ship there actually is beneath you.

You can choose where you want to land:

https://gfycat.com/VillainousValidCreature

But it's not possible to hover and there's a minimum forward velocity so it's possible to drive into a tree for example and get stuck against it as your ship takes damage. It's not possible to reverse.

You can't though use the Big Things mod which is amazing with Low Flight as the pop-in is too much and you end up embedded in structures which were't there only seconds earlier.

Potential-Monke

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To be fair, whether this game is or is not for them should become apparent to a player well before the 30 hour mark. 30 hours is a ****load of time.

I would normally agree, but this is one of 2 games which got better the more time I put in, the other being NBA 2K16 (seriously, you need about that much time to upgrade your player to an acceptable level without paying actual money). However, like others, i'm beginning to think I may have seen most of what this game has to offer. I'm still playing it, but i'm playing it less each time. I still love the game, and have got my €60 worth a number of times over, but unless they add some more "life" to the game, it will be a game to put a couple of hours in and forget for another while. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it needs tweaks and updates.

wyrn wrote: »

My gripe at the moment is the markers in the HUD. Sometimes the Monoliths stay on it and I end up double tracking to them when I've already been there. Wish you could also pin the "?" points, so you can come back to them.

Make sure when you visit the location, you save at the local save point there. Going up to the save point removes the distance marker for you, and you get a message like "you're arrived".

super_furry

http://www.geek.com/games/no-mans-sky-wipes-your-discoveries-after-two-weeks-1668222/

Seen this? It now appears that after a couple of weeks, everything but your planet names and system names are reset. It doesn't seem to keep track of your species names.

Zillah

super_furry wrote: »

http://www.geek.com/games/no-mans-sky-wipes-your-discoveries-after-two-weeks-1668222/

Seen this? It now appears that after a couple of weeks, everything but your planet names and system names are reset. It doesn't seem to keep track of your species names.

Wow.

I don't buy the space argument. Text is ludicrously space efficient, no way they're worried about trying to store a list of names, however long.

Canis Lupus

Zillah wrote: »

Wow.

I don't buy the space argument. Text is ludicrously space efficient, no way they're worried about trying to store a list of names, however long.

Update on the article shows the discoveries reappeared. Looks like a server bug.

CiDeRmAn

That won't stop the haters adding it to the list of SEAN MURRIES LIES!!!!!
They really, really, must have little else to do.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

That won't stop the haters adding it to the list of SEAN MURRIES LIES!!!!!
They really, really, must have little else to do.

Bit mean there. The fact is he did lie about a whole raft of things and failed to address them before release. It's also worth documenting as well considering the industries history of trying to cover up stuff like this, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEQOv2g0JA

What amazes me in this case is people that enjoyed the game acting as the people reporting what are cold hard facts are just making this stuff up due to their saltiness. Baffling considering it didn't happen with other similar incidents like the PC port of Arkham Knight.

Ponster

Low Flight mod now includes the ability to hover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8gVkir4EH0

CiDeRmAn

It think it's the case that Happy Games ended up excluding material that was earlier shown in it, like the mega fauna, and we have no idea what happened there, but it's unfair to call it lying.
Equally, the whole multiplayer thing is way overblown, with the developer repeating in more videos that this isn't a multiplayer game and not to go into it looking for that type of game.
Sean was pressed into certain things but still, I don't think he ever looked comfortable on the subject of multiplayer.
I think the core focus of the game was available to see, for those that chose to look, but it was understated at the best of times.
But people are fooling themselves if they don't recognise the preponderance of online voices simply using this "scandal" as a source of clicks and hits, and little more.
And Driv3r is hardly fair, that was a fundamentally broken game, a massive flop too.
I was close to the management of Gamestop at the time and got my copy some days before the public and I ended up returning it, they were appalled as they had pallets of the things in the stock room, most lingered for years before they sold. The game was fundamentally broken in a way that NMS certainly isn't, occasional crashes not withstanding.

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

It think it's the case that Happy Games ended up excluding material that was earlier shown in it, like the mega fauna, and we have no idea what happened there, but it's unfair to call it lying.
Equally, the whole multiplayer thing is way overblown, with the developer repeating in more videos that this isn't a multiplayer game and not to go into it looking for that type of game.
Sean was pressed into certain things but still, I don't think he ever looked comfortable on the subject of multiplayer.
I think the core focus of the game was available to see, for those that chose to look, but it was understated at the best of times.
But people are fooling themselves if they don't recognise the preponderance of online voices simply using this "scandal" as a source of clicks and hits, and little more.
And Driv3r is hardly fair, that was a fundamentally broken game, a massive flop too.
I was close to the management of Gamestop at the time and got my copy some days before the public and I ended up returning it, they were appalled as they had pallets of the things in the stock room, most lingered for years before they sold. The game was fundamentally broken in a way that NMS certainly isn't, occasional crashes not withstanding.

That sounds very disillusioned. Almost like you are trying to convince yourself that you got what was promised.

The criticism that Hello Games gets is very fair, In fact it's justified. Just like Retro said it's odd that Hello Games is getting defended by so many gamers when compared to other games that went south.

The only thing I can think of is fans have invested so much of themselves in the game for 3 years that they now need to defend Sean Murray and Hello games like a legal team.

It's quite clear when 90% of the player base drops off that the game didn't deliver on what it promised.

I'd have some respect for Sean Murray if he did an interview and apologised for misleading gamers into thinking certain features where in the game. Then outlined how Hello Games will add the content into the game going forward. features they left out of the game.
But no, Sean is happy to remain quiet and count the money it seems.

It's a shame really. When I think of No Mans Sky in years to come all I'll remember is lies and deceit instead of hard work and innovation.

Zillah

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

It think it's the case that Happy Games ended up excluding material that was earlier shown in it, like the mega fauna, and we have no idea what happened there, but it's unfair to call it lying.
Equally, the whole multiplayer thing is way overblown, with the developer repeating in more videos that this isn't a multiplayer game and not to go into it looking for that type of game.

Didn't we already have this conversation? If you want to keep saying they didn't lie about anything you really should have a read through of this post. I don't think everything they talk about here is particularly important, but taken all together, between trailers and interviews they created a very false impression of the game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/

CiDeRmAn

Zillah wrote: »

Didn't we already have this conversation? If you want to keep saying they didn't lie about anything you really should have a read through of this post. I don't think everything they talk about here is particularly important, but taken all together, between trailers and interviews they created a very false impression of the game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/

I don't we are so far apart in terms of views on the content of the game as delivered vs that of the game in the earlier trailers.

Where we do diverge is where there are some who think that Hello Games and their spokesman are deliberately setting out to hoodwink and deceive and what I believe, which is that they bit off far more than they could chew with the game and had to remove multiple systems to make it work in the time frame they were allotted by their publisher.

It seems though that you have a large group of very annoyed consumers who, one the one hand, feel entirely lied to by interviews and trailers, but on the other hand, said their expectations were entirely uninfluenced by hype.
Don't they see that this is an oxymoron?
Do they feel that to say "yes, the pregame hype had some role in setting the expectations so high" is to seem feeble minded in some way?

I don't buy it.

I don't think that Hello Games set out to deceive anyone.
If anything they have been unprepared for the world of AAA game release and the work needed to meet quality expectations, and No Man's Sky was obviously released in an unfinished, unstable state.
My PS4 copy still crashes, despite being updated.

I am have expressed here highs and lows with the game, including enjoying finding new worlds, but how jaded it all becomes when there isn't enough differentiation, where tasks are entirely self directed, when the mechanics of the game are just too limiting.

I hope that NMS will have the chance to become the game we saw throughout 2015, with Sandworms and territorial conflicts spanning the galaxy, and if there is no meaningful expansion of the game in the form of unpaid DLC, I expect to join you all on the picket lines!

Down with this sort of thing!

Careful now!

CiDeRmAn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

That sounds very disillusioned. Almost like you are trying to convince yourself that you got what was promised.

No need to get personal there.

The criticism that Hello Games gets is very fair, In fact it's justified.

In your opinion

Just like Retro said it's odd that Hello Games is getting defended by so many gamers when compared to other games that went south.

The only thing I can think of is fans have invested so much of themselves in the game for 3 years that they now need to defend Sean Murray and Hello games like a legal team.

Equally, it's that people bought into the hyperbole around the game, not just form Hello Games in isolation, that has set the expectations too high, at least for some.
To paraphrase your comment
"The only thing I can think of is fans have invested so much of themselves in the game for 3 years that they now need to persecute Sean Murray and Hello games like a legal team"
Which is a far more apt analogy, seeing as people are busy selecting evidence of Sean's interviews, editing out the areas of dispute and regurgitating them and editing them into a montage that "confirms" guilt, rather than seeing how many instances where the interviewers own desires for what should appear is leading the interviews. In many instances Sean would have done better to just say no instead of simply being non-committal.

It's quite clear when 90% of the player base drops off that the game didn't deliver on what it promised.

I'd say a lot of people, and those are Steam numbers I think, bought into the game thinking it was multilplayer when it was explicitly said it was not.

I'd have some respect for Sean Murray if he did an interview and apologised for misleading gamers into thinking certain features where in the game. Then outlined how Hello Games will add the content into the game going forward. features they left out of the game.
But no, Sean is happy to remain quiet and count the money it seems.

What a ridiculous bar to set for a company.
Completely unrealistic.
You expect apologies?
For some imagined personal slight?
Or for some grand deception?

:rolleyes:

It's a shame really. When I think of No Mans Sky in years to come all I'll remember is lies and deceit instead of hard work and innovation.

No, honestly I think much the anger is as shallow as the current gameplay in NMS, all flash no bang and the usual crew will move on to be terribly upset at something else soon enough.

No Man's Sky will expand, or it will not, it's not the first time I have bought a game that disappointed, but I don't feel the need to expectorate every extreme notion I have all over the internet, being an adult.

I don't recall looking for blood over Thunderforce II, or Super Mario Bros 2.
I don't remember Retr0 feeling particularly aggrieved at R-Type Final.
And so on.

Retr0gamer

Have disagree with you on this Ciderman, the evidence of Hello Games promising features and not delivering and not telling the player base that these promised features have been cut is irrefutable. It's out there and documented. While many of these are minor systems some are major. Multiplayer for instance is hardly a small feature and it's a feature people would base a purchase or pre order on. Even stuff like saying there's different factions and massive space battles.

It's not stuff that bothered me but I can see how people are snnoyed because they were sold a different game than was promised. This not delivering on big features is something Molyneaux has been torn apart over for far more minor offences yet in some people's eyes Sean Murray gets a free pass and everyone that takes issue is a crybaby.

The defence I see wheeled out is that as a piece of art the developer is free to put out what they want and express themselves how they feel through their game. They can cut systems and features and not feel like they owe something to the community. However NMS isn't art, it's a product. It's a product published by a massive corporation that made cuts to push it out the door to maximise their profits and fill a hole in their release schedule. People were promised features, pretty major featured like multiplayer, in their product and what they received was different from what was sold to them. It's deceitful marketing. What was stopping Sean Murray or any of the Sony PR explaining that these features had been cut. It would have been understandable. But they didn't. I can't really blame Sean Murray for this as I'm pretty sure the reason he hasn't yet is he is under a corporate NDA agreement with Sony not to disclose anything about it before launch as it would hurt sales and the image of their products.

CiDeRmAn

This multiplayer stuff is a red herring though.
There was so many questions out there, in interview, where he was asked about multiplayer and in the bulk of them he said that the game was not multiplayer and that people who were looking for that experience wouldn't get it in NMS.
I'll grant you, he contradicted some smaller points on the matter, can you see each other and so on, but he was always at pains to say that the universe was so big that the chances of coming across another player was extremely unlikely.
I think the leak of early code along with glitches that allowed players to cross vast distances relatively quickly meant it was put to the test far earlier than expected.
It was possible that the code for that "feature" has simply not been finished yet.
And we are in agreement, I think Sony has more to do with this than Hello Games or Sean Murray, I think he is wrapped up in all sorts of legal tape which would explain why he has been comparatively quiet since launch.
Again, Multiplayer was never what the game was about, ever.
It was a question pushed at every interview I've seen and, again, Sean seemed to avoid the question or give non-committal answers again and again, which was unfortunate.
I suppose it comes hot on the heels of the same flavour of online outrage that was seen around recent cinema releases, where the personalisation and abuse was disgusting.
Here we see Sean vilified by people who aren't in full possession of the facts, how could they, but nevertheless they are casting a personal judgement on the man.
For all the things the game does wrong, and there's plenty, it does an awful lot right, but it isn't enough, and I have said as much here.

There just seems to be this trend out there, and I'm someone disappointed with the game I understand the frustration of what the game could be, to see purchasers of No Man's Sky as victims, victims of some scheme, some fraud.

And Molyneaux is a bullsh1t artist of epc proportions, I don't think the same can be said about Hello Games at this juncture, seeing as this is their, what, third major release?

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Equally, it's that people bought into the hyperbole around the game, not just form Hello Games in isolation, that has set the expectations too high, at least for some.

Every game experiences this especially with time added into the mix however Sean Murray's comments/statements are the very ingredient of this Hype Cake. I have yet to actually talk to anyone that expected something in the game that the developers never mentioned.... Only features that the developers stated were in the game but were not there in the retail version.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

To paraphrase your comment
"The only thing I can think of is fans have invested so much of themselves in the game for 3 years that they now need to persecute Sean Murray and Hello games like a legal team"
Which is a far more apt analogy, seeing as people are busy selecting evidence of Sean's interviews, editing out the areas of dispute and regurgitating them and editing them into a montage that "confirms" guilt, rather than seeing how many instances where the interviewers own desires for what should appear is leading the interviews. In many instances Sean would have done better to just say no instead of simply being non-committal.

If we use the legal analogy the evidence is refutable. Case closed.
Sean should be working on damage control at the moment. Booking as many interviews as possible to address concerns about the game and outlining its plans for the future. However he is still too busy counting the money to do this apparently.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'd say a lot of people, and those are Steam numbers I think, bought into the game thinking it was multilplayer when it was explicitly said it was not.

Are PC gamers different? It clearly shows that the game has unfortunately missed the mark completely. A game about exploration is a game that should not be losing 90% of its player base 3 weeks after launch.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

What a ridiculous bar to set for a company.
Completely unrealistic.
You expect apologies?
For some imagined personal slight?
Or for some grand deception?

:rolleyes:

So you believe that game developers should be able to falsely advertise what a game consists of pre-release?

Sean Murray without a doubt owes an apology to gamers who purchased the game. He made no effort at all to disclose to gamers pre-release that certain features he had stated were in the game never materialised . The night before the release he published a tweet saying that people shouldn't go into the game if they are looking for multiplayer. Could he not have published that a week before?, a month before release?

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

No, honestly I think much the anger is as shallow as the current gameplay in NMS, all flash no bang and the usual crew will move on to be terribly upset at something else soon enough.

No Man's Sky will expand, or it will not, it's not the first time I have bought a game that disappointed, but I don't feel the need to expectorate every extreme notion I have all over the internet, being an adult.

I don't recall looking for blood over Thunderforce II, or Super Mario Bros 2.
I don't remember Retr0 feeling particularly aggrieved at R-Type Final.
And so on.

Anger? Blood? Being an adult?
You seem to be painting everyone that has a criticism of Hello Games shady practices as some sort of extremists.

I don't believe Sean Murray set out to mislead people however that is exactly what he did. He had time to clarify what would and wouldn't be in the game but he decided to stay quiet and milk that pre-order money.

CiDeRmAn

As Retr0 has pointed out, and I agreed with, Hello Games and their employees have likely been wrapped up in an NDA preventing them from making any utterances that might damage the sales of the game.

And I consider my description of the attitudes of some people regarding the game and those who developed it in those terms because that is the tone they choose to project.
I am not necessarily talking about people here, but rather the proliferation of videos and blogs that seem intent in generating a narrative of deliberate deceit and inferring victimhood on those who bought the game and were disappointed.
Once again, I am disappointed with the game, but it is by no means the first game that has disappointed me, nor will it be the last.
To suggest Hello Games engaged in "shady practices" once again plants the idea that Hello Games have made it their business to hoodwink the consumer, and I don't think it is the case.

It is true to say, malevolence is, in hindsight, almost always simply incompetence. It is only our disgust and disappointment that gives the failures of another a hue of personally directed deliberate misdeed.

It is far more likely that Hello Games were ultimately incompetent, and simply could not deliver the product as promised.
That Sony were left with the option of further delaying a key component of their release schedule, spending a fortune sending in a team of coders to fix the game, or release it as is and fix in updates.
And the last is what seems to have happened.
But I think it's more likely that the team just bit off more than they could chew.
They have no form in this kind of game development.
Two minor hits on digital stores in the form of Joe Danger and it's sequel, while Sean himself worked as a part of the Criterion team that made the Burnout games.
It's a small team and they've made something that's interesting but just not that interesting.

I'm not out to defend Hello Games, but I am just asking that people take it down a notch, save their indignation for things that actually matter a little more than a new IP space exploration game.

johnny_ultimate

Retr0gamer wrote: »

However NMS isn't art, it's a product.

Incredibly disheartening to read this, Retr0. Time to write off The Last Guardian now if that's what you believe

Of course No Man's Sky is art, and I have spent more than enough time with it to be able to justify that statement (indeed, I've done so in this thread already, so won't repeat myself). More accomplished artists than Hello Games have been put under much better documented pressure from corporate entities, and they've come out with superb artworks still. Even if we accept that Hello were forced to push this out before they were happy to, they've still created a game that is capable of moments of genuine wonder and beauty; that is rich with technical and aesthetic confidence; that feels completely like its own thing (sometimes to a fault, granted); and that has pushed the medium forward (even when we accept that it didn't go as far as we hoped, even if it left individual players cold, and even if one doesn't believe pro-gen will ever be a replacement for a wholly designed experience, procedural generation to this scale and quality is still a noteworthy advancement). That fits any criteria of 'art' that I've encountered.

Frankly, I thought we were well beyond the point where we had to justify 'games as art' - especially within enthusiast circles - and individual ones can still be heavily critiqued and criticised within an artistic framework. Yes, they're products too, but even bearing in mind the comparative expense of games compared to other mediums, personally I feel it's bleak to look at games as products first and foremost (unless a player is under financial pressure, or we're talking about the dregs of F2P games that are explicitly and mechanically designed to extract money from you above all else). In worst case scenario and Hello Games did find themselves forced to release by Sony, there is no doubt from any interview - 'lies' or otherwise :pac: - that Sean Murray and his team poured their heart and soul into this game. And hell, even if we do look at games as products first and foremost, I've played countless games - some that are even quite good despite themselves! - that have been more explicitly designed and shaped as mass market products than No Man's Sky has. As I've suggested before, if anything quite a bit of what No Man's Sky does really well - such as its slow-burn rewards, potently lonely atmosphere, its super-low stakes or experimental soundtrack - are things that put it in active conflict with mass market trends.

AbusesToilets

Surely the bigger issue is what happened to the game that was demonstrated in various video and demos in the months prior to launch. I posted a link to a reddit thread where a guy broke down a long list of things that were shown as being in the game just a couple of months prior to launch that subsequently were removed.

What happened that these features will sliced out?

Saw that Zillah had mentioned this again on the previous page, with the link.

CiDeRmAn

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Surely the bigger issue is what happened to the game that was demonstrated in various video and demos in the months prior to launch. I posted a link to a reddit thread where a guy broke down a long list of things that were shown as being in the game just a couple of months prior to launch that subsequently were removed.

What happened that these features will sliced out?

I think it is very likely that they just couldn't make them work consistently enough to leave them in, and they didn't have the resources to fix them ahead of the launch date.

Multiplayer aside, a thing I think was never to be a big part of it but they thought they had time before people actually met, I think the bigger picture stuff of playing within a populated universe of aliens, merchants and battlegrounds were probably sheared away, one by one, as they hadn't time or the maths just didn't work out.

I have bemoaned the lack of genuine planet diversity here already, no gas giants I focused on, but the lack of hot rocky inner worlds, temperate worlds in the goldilocks zone, on out to the gaseous worlds, these are the features of planetary systems here and nothing in NMS is representative of this, which is a real pity.

I guess that's what Elite Dangerous is for.

Notorious

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Of course No Man's Sky is art..

I think it's a sad day when we start considering computer games more as art pieces than products of entertainment.

FAILSAFE 00

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I think it is very likely that they just couldn't make them work consistently enough to leave them in, and they didn't have the resources to fix them ahead of the launch date.

Multiplayer aside, a thing I think was never to be a big part of it but they thought they had time before people actually met, I think the bigger picture stuff of playing within a populated universe of aliens, merchants and battlegrounds were probably sheared away, one by one, as they hadn't time or the maths just didn't work out.

I have bemoaned the lack of genuine planet diversity here already, no gas giants I focused on, but the lack of hot rocky inner worlds, temperate worlds in the goldilocks zone, on out to the gaseous worlds, these are the features of planetary systems here and nothing in NMS is representative of this, which is a real pity.

I guess that's what Elite Dangerous is for.

I think your argument has been quite weak. You make a lot of assumptions about Hello Games and Sony.
Sean can't talk because of an NDA with Sony, they couldn't make feature X and Y work, etc, etc.

Its seems to be assumptions vs facts in this case.

I have to say I have never seen criticism of a game conducted in a more concise and helpful manner. Very well laid out posts were made that document everything that Sean Murray stated was in the game that was not. In fact the only extreme act I seen was a NMS fan DDOS'ing Jim Sterlings review of the game.

Even if your assumptions are correct was it not ethical to inform customers that the experience at launch would not be what was expected. As an indie studio I would have expected more integrity when compared with the usual AAA bull****.

CiDeRmAn

Well, assumptions are going both ways here.
There really aren't sides here.
We all agree the product was weaker than it should, that elements we wanted were missing.
The game is not a complete disaster, there's plenty to enjoy and admire in the game.

Where people differ is the suggestion of deliberate misinformation and cheating of the buying public by a team who, again, deliberately fabricated misleading trailers and sold a product that was nothing like as described.

While I would suggest that the team were small, inexperienced with such a product, were under massive time pressure and had to cut things that they didn't have time to make work.

Yes, the team should be talking to consumers right now, we can agree about that, but I think we have to give the team the benefit of the doubt, but I understand if others don't feel the same.

And, just to reiterate, those are your feelings on the matter, and these are mine.
I feel one is as valid as the other, but while I respect your opinion, I would hope we can respect each other's point of view.

Potential-Monke

Put the pitchforks away for now. Someone has found the giant creatures. Which leads me to wonder if some of the other stuff that people are saying is not there, is in actual fact there, but like giant creatures, are rare. Who knows! This is a bonus for HG and Sean, he didn't lie about the giant creatures.

However, I have to say that the game played differently tonight after a 600mb update. I found all the creatures on 2 planets in the space of half an hour. Me thinks the update increased some odds. Now of only they'd increase the odds of getting the Atlas Pass v2 and v3!!!

http://fraghero.com/someone-finally-discovered-gigantic-creatures-no-mans-sky/

I also think the rarity of giant creatures and other things is completely deliberate. How boring would it be to find giant creatures often? The shine would disappear quickly. Just like animals that attack. The 2nd last planet, a rocky giant with huge mountains and deep valleys, had 12 creatures. 10 of them attacked me on sight! That's new!!

FAILSAFE 00

Wow, Steam is breaking its own rules by offering gamers a refund on No mans sky even after 2 hours as been played.

http://fraghero.com/steam-is-now-refunding-no-mans-sky-players-even-if-they-have-played-for-more-than-2-hours/

CiDeRmAn

Notorious wrote: »

I think it's a sad day when we start considering computer games more as art pieces than products of entertainment.

It would be, if that's what he said.

Painting
Sculpture
Dramatic arts, which includes those seen on big screens, small screens and the stage.
And it's into the last one that videogames fit.
They are products made for the purposes of bringing the message of the creators, and being good enough to warrant purchase and so make profit.
And, as an expression of the creators vision, they are of course a form of art.

Entertainment can certainly be seen as art, or an expression of creativity.

It's a sad day when people can't accept that a game can be both.

CiDeRmAn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Wow, Steam is breaking its own rules by offering gamers a refund on No mans sky even after 2 hours as been played.

http://fraghero.com/steam-is-now-refunding-no-mans-sky-players-even-if-they-have-played-for-more-than-2-hours/

I see Amazon is too.

Well, good luck to them.

I would say that 2 hours isn't exactly time enough to experience the game properly anyway.
I see some people are making very little headway into it, before putting it down, which is unfortunate.

Edit: And, here's a good list of the latest fixes for both PC and PS4 versions of the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/4zvbwa/ps4_107_changes/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/4zwvsy/update_from_hello_games_on_steam/

And people are starting to see some really interesting things within the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-RcFHMTV4

Maximus Alexander

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I would say that 2 hours isn't exactly time enough to experience the game properly anyway.
I see some people are making very little headway into it, before putting it down, which is unfortunate.

In fairness, you shouldn't have to work to find enjoyment in a game. If they're putting it down it's because they're not enjoying it.

CiDeRmAn

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

In fairness, you shouldn't have to work to find enjoyment in a game. If they're putting it down it's because they're not enjoying it.

With all due respect, such a person would have a very limited understanding of the medium.
There are a great many games that require early grinding, particularly in the first couple of hours, learning to use the various systems.
I've mentioned Elite Dangerous a couple of times, and it's a prime example of a game that really makes you work in the early hours, tens of hours to be truthful, before opening up as the techniques become second nature.
Many role playing games are quite demanding early on, with much to learn.

One could argue that a well designed game is going to make those early hours of tutorials entertaining, but that isn't always true.
XCom is a demanding game, and it isn't patronising the player with handholding.

If people put a game down because they aren't enjoying it then the developer has failed to communicate with the prospective audience, a charge leveled a Hello Games by pretty much everyone.
The truth is the game has it's rewards but it's nothing you are going to be treated to without some investment, and the number of people who seem willing to make an investment in games is dwindling.

Ever more examples of casual games and quickly rewarding titles, games that hand up trophies just for pressing the right button at the start, perhaps they are servicing a new market of people who think games should something enjoyable in a spare three minutes.

Perhaps, to look at it charitably, the people who have always invested time in their game collections remain, but their relative numbers, compared to the greater gaming public, is small, so the market reflects the "quick fix NOW" mentality.

I can play PacMan Championship edition on my 3DS or I can stick on N++ on my PS4, and then I can spend three hours on Bloodborne.
Different experiences.
No Man's Sky was never going to be a game to reward the short timer.

Thargor

Ciderman, FFS, why do you keep making excuses based on the multiplayer and hype issues? Those are not the games only issues. They have been caught outright lying right up to the release and afterwards. I didnt care about multiplayer and I always said this game was probably going to be a let down but I didnt think it would be this bad.

The problem is they've delivered a really sh1tty game. A space exploration game with no space exploration, space is just somewhere you go to use the space station or do a jump to another identical system, system being the wrong word there because its just a series of linked rooms with a few planet objects in them not actual solar systems as they promised, a space exploration game where there are no giant space battles? Where your ship has only one (terrible) weapon? Where every ship flies identically to any other, where the whole flight model is completely broken to the point where you cant crash or damage the ship or even point it downwards!

A planetary exploration game where you find the exact same 3-4 buildings and artefacts on every planet in a map the size of a galaxy? What is the point? The whole game is about customising your ship and character, its basically the only thing to do, and all you get as a reward for customisation is extra inventory slots?

Its an absolute joke, theres no defending it, Steam have made it possible to get a refund no matter how much of the game you've played or how long you've owned it, that tells you everything you need to know.