No Man's Sky

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you are enjoying it fair play to you and for me as well who wasn't following any of the interviews or hype I only care about the game we got at the end but there's a fair few people that pre-ordered this game based on the information that Sean gave out in these interviews and saying some of these features aren't in the game just before release isn't great considering how many people ordered beforehand.

You might enjoy the final product but the fact remains that features were promised that weren't in the final game and people spent money on this game expecting those features. Brushing those facts aside because you like the game is kind of disingenuous to the people this did affect. I also don't think that Sean Murray is the villain here and he said these things due to enthusiasm for his product, people should be pointing the fingers at Sony in this case. It doesn't change the fact features were promised and not delivered and only announced as not a feature just prior to release after preorders had been collected.

People that preorder get what they deserve

Maximus Alexander

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

With all due respect, such a person would have a very limited understanding of the medium.
There are a great many games that require early grinding, particularly in the first couple of hours, learning to use the various systems.
I've mentioned Elite Dangerous a couple of times, and it's a prime example of a game that really makes you work in the early hours, tens of hours to be truthful, before opening up as the techniques become second nature.
Many role playing games are quite demanding early on, with much to learn.

Yes this is true, and I think it's an awful sad state of affairs to be honest. So many games these days have managed to suck out all the fun from the medium and replace it with grinding mechanics that just prey on a weird part of human psychology.

Elite Dangerous is indeed a perfect example; I put about 40 hours into it before I took a stepped back and realised I wasn't actually enjoying myself at all. I was grinding to get more ships to do more grinding. Never again.

CiDeRmAn

Thargor wrote: »

Ciderman, FFS, why do you keep making excuses based on the multiplayer and hype issues? Those are not the games only issues. They have been caught outright lying right up to the release and afterwards. I didnt care about multiplayer and I always said this game was probably going to be a let down but I didnt think it would be this bad.

The problem is they've delivered a really sh1tty game. A space exploration game with no space exploration, space is just somewhere you go to use the space station or do a jump to another identical system, system being the wrong word there because its just a series of linked rooms with a few planet objects in them not actual solar systems as they promised, a space exploration game where there are no giant space battles? Where your ship has only one (terrible) weapon? Where every ship flies identically to any other, where the whole flight model is completely broken to the point where you cant crash or damage the ship or even point it downwards!

A planetary exploration game where you find the exact same 3-4 buildings and artefacts on every planet in a map the size of a galaxy? What is the point? The whole game is about customising your ship and character, its basically the only thing to do, and all you get as a reward for customisation is extra inventory slots?

Its an absolute joke, theres no defending it, Steam have made it possible to get a refund no matter how much of the game you've played or how long you've owned it, that tells you everything you need to know.

In fairness,
I bought a physical copy of the game on launch day and I have been critical of the quality of the game, as sold.
I have taken issue with the shallow gameplay, lack of variety in planets, flight model and pretty much the same stuff everyone else is p1ssed off about, including the unstable nature of the game itself, it crashed on me when I pressed x to start ffs.

And I have also raised issue with the mining/resource management and the inventory system, that seems to represent most of the game labour itself, and it's a complete drag.

No difference of opinion there.

But I choose not to believe that an enthusiastic independent developer would purposefully choose to lie and cheat the customers.
To what end?
They may make money on those poor souls who never bring the game back, but they would be ruined as a developer forever.
Gearbox still haven't recovered from Aliens: Colonial Marines, and they were committing an actual fraud on the customers and Sega, look how poorly Battleborn has fared.

I feel that there is more that has happened, and instead of calling Sean Murray out as a liar, I choose to wait and see what was going on.

I'm still prepared to agree with you all, if it turns out that he simply promoted a product, right up to the release, with things that were never in the game, with feature he knew would never be implemented.
Sure, I'll say they were telling porky pies to make money.
But that will only be when we have the actual facts, and right now we don't.

Hate the game, fine, but until you know the details behind the games release try to avoid hating the developer, and more specifically the man.

CiDeRmAn

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yes this is true, and I think it's an awful sad state of affairs to be honest. So many games these days have managed to suck out all the fun from the medium and replace it with grinding mechanics that just prey on a weird part of human psychology.

Elite Dangerous is indeed a perfect example; I put about 40 hours into it before I took a stepped back and realised I wasn't actually enjoying myself at all. I was grinding to get more ships to do more grinding. Never again.

But not every game has to be Doom.
Some games are far better as a result of the time needed to learn systems and become proficient.
I'm not a fan of many of them, to be sure, but even the likes of Fire Emblem or the brilliant Etrian Odyssey demand the player spends time learning the gameplay mechanics before you are let loose on your adventure.

Maximus Alexander

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

But not every game has to be Doom.
Some games are far better as a result of the time needed to learn systems and become proficient.
I'm not a fan of many of them, to be sure, but even the likes of Fire Emblem or the brilliant Etrian Odyssey demand the player spends time learning the gameplay mechanics before you are let loose on your adventure.

I'm not really sure I follow. You're conflating having to spend time to learn mechanics, with a game whose mechanics are grinding. These are completely different things; polar opposites even.

I'm all for games where thought has been put into engaging game mechanics that have depth and reward a player for experimentation and persistence. Unfortunately, these are few and far between. The industry is plagued by games where the 'mechanics' are hideously simple and consist of grinding and repetitive tasks, often simply to unlock things that allow you to grind better.

I don't know why you would try to distil it down to games either having to be Doom or a grindfest. What it comes down to is you shouldn't be playing a game thinking "If I just do this boring thing a thousand more times I know the fun part is just around the corner!"

CiDeRmAn

Sorry, we are at cross purposes.
A point was made by yourself that you shouldn't have to work to enjoy yourself in a game.
I was simply saying that there examples where the game can demand time from you to learn it's techniques.
I was not including NMS in that example.
As I've said, I found the gameplay in NMS shallow and lacking, and I shared in everyone'd disappointment in the game.

And I certainly didn't say that games have to one or the other, I was just using Doom and Etrian Odyssey as a pair of examples where one requires grinding and learning while the other is pretty much point and shoot, and I love them both.

Again
I'm not defending No Man's Sky
I'm not defending Sean Murray
I'm only asking that people refrain from personal attacks until they know the details.

And, at least we are having a debate here, although I feel a little isolated.
Isn't it better to discuss them here instead of what is mostly seen, which is little but one sided discussions of people clapping each other on the back and reveling in saying how evil Sean Murray is.

OptimusTractor

On a lighter shorter note I found a planet inhabited by psycho bambis last night. It sort of ruined part of my childhood.

EoinHef

Im going to put that refund policy on steam to the test,39hrs played at this point. Just waiting to see if request was sucessful.

The price point was all wrong for what we ended up getting imo so ill re buy the game at a later date at a lower price point. The whole thing has left a bit of a sour taste,i enjoyed the game we got to a degree but givin what happened id like to not let the devs/sony walk away with €60 of my money.

CiDeRmAn

I'm tempted to trade it in myself, but I just want to see what happens next and owning it is a way of being part of it.

We'll see.

Riesen_Meal

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm tempted to trade it in myself, but I just want to see what happens next and owning it is a way of being part of it.

We'll see.

I took a stance on myself this generation and won't trade a game in unless it's a yearly sports title I.e Pro Evolution Soccer

I don't think I'll trade No Man Sky as I like the game a lot for what it is...

I don't really mind if they don't update it all that much either unless they are bug squashing the obvious one's, I suppose maybe I just longed for a console game like it for a while, and it's scratched the itch for space for me....

I may not even play it much longer but I'll definitely revisit it every so often...

EoinHef

My refund request was denied,stated reason was i have over 2hrs of play. So guess you cant just get a refund on Steam regardless:(

Venom

EoinHef wrote: »

My refund request was denied,stated reason was i have over 2hrs of play. So guess you cant just get a refund on Steam regardless:(

That's just the automated reply so its always going to be no once you go over 2 hours. You need to put in a support ticket which a human makes the decision on as that's how most people are getting refunds.

chrislad

I do have to say that the silence from HelloGames on Twitter is deafening.

CiDeRmAn

chrislad wrote: »

I do have to say that the silence from HelloGames on Twitter is deafening.

I agree.
And it's odd, to say the least.

Lone Stone

if anything i hope they are able to make money of the game engine they created, it would be great to see what a proper sized team could do with it.

johnny_ultimate

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I feel a little isolated.

You feel isolated? Try being one of us weirdos who actually really like the game :cool:

Notorious

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Entertainment can certainly be seen as art, or an expression of creativity.

It's a sad day when people can't accept that a game can be both.

Agreed. Art is a massive part of the genre we all love. The visual style of NMS is striking, and it's beautiful. Each to their own, but I don't think the art of a game should ever outshine the gameplay. Which would be my problem with NMS.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe trade in Cex? Right now they're giving €49 cash for it.

Danonino. wrote: »

The buy in price will drop quite dramatically and rapidly as stock increases.

They're now offering €43 cash. And they have a growing mountain of stock (check the link above).

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Incredibly disheartening to read this, Retr0. Time to write off The Last Guardian now if that's what you believe

Fair enough I was a bit ranty. While No Man's Sky is definitely art I think rushing it to completion has turned it more in product direction.

As for Last Guardian, I'm worried there's been nothing about it so far and afraid it's not going to live up to the hype.

Dave_The_Sheep

Venom wrote: »

That's just the automated reply so its always going to be no once you go over 2 hours. You need to put in a support ticket which a human makes the decision on as that's how most people are getting refunds.

What options does one choose to make this happen? I've been rejected 6 times so far.

johnny_ultimate

Angry internet drama over.

FAILSAFE 00

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Angry internet drama over.

*Steam Pic

They must have been flooded with refund requests.


No Mans Sky - Honest game trailer :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wsFhv_Kz38

The_Valeyard

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They must have been flooded with refund requests.


No Mans Sky - Honest game trailer :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wsFhv_Kz38

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Jaysus they savaged that game!!! Very funny.

Cheers Failsafe! I recommend you also post that in the gaming humour section.

SeantheMan

I went on holidays for the last 2 weeks, so I was absolutely delighted I didn't get this, once I heard about another Irish chancer.

You just have to take a look at this list to realise that it was just a big con.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/

They all have quotes from the conman himself beside them which would lead you to think they were in the game

E.g.

Destroying Space Stations And Fleets - "Maybe you take out a space station, or a fleet, or you know, something like that..."

Giant Fleets of Ships - These are examples much larger fleets than found in the game.

Faction Affiliations w/ Significance - "Different races have different attributes [...] and depending on how I'm playing, I might want to kinda make an allegiance with one or [an]other // “If you’re playing the game for exploration’s sake, you might want to focus on that race. But if you’re playing the game and all you want to do is kill things, there are more military-based races, so you might want to try and become friends with them.”

Large-Scale, Joinable Space Battles Between Factions. - "Like here, we're at the battle between two warring factions. I could join in, I could take sides."

Ringed Planets - "Yeah, we haven't shown that yet, but yeah. if it's in sci-fi and sci-fi book covers, we kinda need to do it."

Naming Ships - "Ships are actually a discovery just like everything else, and you can name your discoveries"

Actual Ship Classes And Differentiation - "an infinite number of variations on that ship, which is a cool thing for players, each one of them is pilotable, each one of them will handle slightly differently. This is a Korvak ship, and their race is more scientific, so this ship is more scientific.This is more for somebody who'd be an explorer

Resources Depending On Distance From Sun, Environmental Factors - "You'll learn planets that are further from the sun have certain types of resources, planets that are closer have certain types of resources, or planets that have certain environments."

The Ability To Play The Game Solely As A Trade or Solely in Space - "But you can also [...] just not gather resources. Perhaps you're the type of person who just never wants to do that because it seems a bit laborious, or you just don't like visiting planets and you just want to play a space game, so you can do that if you want, just going from space station to space station..."

AbusesToilets

If they had come forward with an similar attitude to Minecraft, and pointed to a way forward with gradual progression and improvement, there wouldn't be half the complaints there are now.

Grayditch

Did I read right that Sony are giving refunds?

SONY?!

CiDeRmAn

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If they had come forward with an similar attitude to Minecraft, and pointed to a way forward with gradual progression and improvement, there wouldn't be half the complaints there are now.

Well we are getting updates with patch notes detailing improvements.
And there has been statements to say that they are attending to crash reports first.
But there should be more coming from Hello Games, yes.

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Well we are getting updates with patch notes detailing improvements. And there has been statements to say that they are attending to crash reports first.

"Improvements"? Bug-fixes aren't improvements; it's just making the base product more stable.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

But there should be more coming from Hello Games, yes.

Hello Games (and Sean Murray) have already tarnished their reputation with this train-wreck of a game, but the lack of communication is just plain ridiculous. It isn't just a case of them not facing the criticism (propaganda by omission?), but they seem to be actively handicapping gamer's discussions too (No Man's Sky Developers Now Locking Player Count Number Discussions on Steam).

If any other form of software was released this way (bug riddled, not to spec, over priced, complete lack of communication from developers), heads would roll. Gamers are far too complacent...

J Mysterio

[QUOTE=Deleted User;100839553Hello Games (and Sean Murray) have already tarnished their reputation with this train-wreck of a game, but the lack of communication is just plain ridiculous. It isn't just a case of them not facing the criticism (propaganda by omission?), but they seem to be actively handicapping gamer's discussions too (No Man's Sky Developers Now Locking Player Count Number Discussions on Steam).[/QUOTE]

Haha, the replies to that are gold:

A. So not even their discussion forums are multiplayer anymore...?


B. We're not saying that the discussion forms arent multiplayer, but the forums are so big, and there are so many, that the chances you'd ever run across someone else's post is very unlikely

death1234567

I just found out what happens when you get the end game or "centre of the Universe". Mother of god what a sham. Another classic example of why you never, ever pre-order a game. Anyone who gave money to these charlatans must feel ill.