No Man's Sky

Venom

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

The fact that it's a small publisher attempting to create a really epic release makes me feel like Hello Games should get a bit more leeway. I'd rather see the game released with a few issues that can be fixed with patches / updates over the following weeks, than see them go bust while trying to deal with feature creep.

That being said, Hello Games aren't doing themselves any favours by keeping so quiet and not communicating with the people who preordered and put down a large chunk of money for this game.

I think for a good portion of the playerbase, if this games issues were just down to poor performance or buggy missions or crashing alot it would be something the majority could live with waiting on patches to fix the problems.

However, Hello Games blatantly lied about a huge portion of the content this game would have, such as a multi-player option, planet eco-systems, animal behavior, faction interaction and gigantic fleet space battles to name just the main ones, which can be seen in every demo and advertising videos they released. Then add into the mix their total lack of communication about any actions going forward to correct these issues which is pretty damming itself and portrays them as a very shady company.

Hello Games don't get a pass for being a small company when they charge AAA prices or for trying to make the holy grail of video games then mislead customers that the product they delivered is missing the majority of features it was advertised as having.

Retr0gamer

The near total communications blackout is the most baffling aspect particularly because it's the exact opposite to how Hello Games have operated in the past and I've a feeling a lot of that is down to legal agreements with Sony. With Joe Danger for example they really engaged with their audience and community.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The near total communications blackout is the most baffling aspect particularly because it's the exact opposite to how Hello Games have operated in the past and I've a feeling a lot of that is down to legal agreements with Sony. With Joe Danger for example they really engaged with their audience and community.

Out of curiosity, Retr0, what communication would you expect outside of what's being said on the main @HelloGames twitter?

FAILSAFE 00

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The near total communications blackout is the most baffling aspect particularly because it's the exact opposite to how Hello Games have operated in the past and I've a feeling a lot of that is down to legal agreements with Sony. With Joe Danger for example they really engaged with their audience and community.

It is. Sean was tweeting almost everyday until August 18th and then nothing. Just to point out that is after release so its unlikely to be anything to do with Sony.

Venom

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It is. Sean was tweeting almost everyday until August 18th and then nothing. Just to point out that is after release so its unlikely to be anything to do with Sony.

Maybe I'm wrong on this but I thought Sony was just the publisher and the development ball was still in the hands of Hello Games. Is this a case of a company like EA buying up a good studio and milking their name and turning out crap?

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

Out of curiosity, Retr0, what communication would you expect outside of what's being said on the main @HelloGames twitter?

A hell of a lot more than patch note regurgitations.

EoinHef

Considering how many videos were popping up regularly before release it does seem quite strange that they have not communicated anything post launch really. Bar the mentioned patch notes and very small updates.

Maybe they are afraid at this point that anything said by them will fan the flames. I mean they did get death threats when they announced the delay.

Grayditch

Retr0gamer wrote: »

it's the exact opposite to how Hello Games have operated in the past and I've a feeling a lot of that is down to legal agreements with Sony.

EoinHef wrote: »

Maybe they are afraid at this point that anything said by them will fan the flames. I mean they did get death threats when they announced the delay.

Can only imagine it's a toss up between/both of these.

chrislad

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The near total communications blackout is the most baffling aspect particularly because it's the exact opposite to how Hello Games have operated in the past and I've a feeling a lot of that is down to legal agreements with Sony. With Joe Danger for example they really engaged with their audience and community.

Yup, I said it a couple pages back. Their silence is really deafening. The worst you can do is say nothing. If it's a case of an apology, a clear plan for future updates etc, that'd be something. Nothing just screams of taking money and running.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

A hell of a lot more than patch note regurgitations.

I mean specifically. Given that they've said they're continuing to work until all outstanding issues are resolved, I would assume an explanation for the missing features would be the next thing people would expect?

EoinHef

gizmo wrote: »

I mean specifically. Given that they've said they're continuing to work until all outstanding issues are resolved, I would assume an explanation for the missing features would be the next thing people would expect?

Where are the missing features would be a start,and an explanation as to why we seem to have a got a different game than the one promoted in some of the promo footage. What can we expect in the way of updates,are they all going to be stability or can we expect features to be added?


That would be a decent place to start imo.

gizmo

EoinHef wrote: »

Where are the missing features would be a start,and an explanation as to why we seem to have a got a different game than the one promoted in some of the promo footage. What can we expect in the way of updates,are they all going to be stability or can we expect features to be added?


That would be a decent place to start imo.

All seems totally reasonable to me.

On that note, I have a more general question about some of this though. If Murray was to say that earlier in development some of the features existed but were later cut because they either didn't work correctly or they ran out of time to polish them, what would folk have expected to happen? Take, for instance, the landing on asteroids feature that was said to exist in the game in December 2014 but isn't present in the final release. Would it be expected for them to come out with a mini press release saying that particular feature was cut prior to release? Or would it have been more appropriate for him to raise it himself during a subsequent interview?

johnny_ultimate

EoinHef wrote: »

are they all going to be stability or can we expect features to be added?

In Murray's defence, that is the one thing he has explicitly said since release

https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/766240055069474821

super_furry

Turned it on this morning for the first time in a week. Two crashes in half-an-hour and then I got ambushed by pirates and destroyed on the way to a space station. Hard to fun any fun in the game at all.

Have only had the one crash so far and was able to launch right back into the game. Honestly not getting how anyone who has played 40+ hours of the game would be demanding a refund, at a cost of around 1.50 an hour that is amongst the best value for money you are likely to see.

I have no sympathy for anyone who bought the game and feel conned, honestly it's your own fault as there is no better time right now to be in the know before buying a game. All the information you need is out there for you if you just wait a little time. I'm loving the game and the sense of spectacle and scope in it and can see myself returning to it time and again to explore its wonders but can understand why others dislike it.

Homefront 2 is a game I was excited for but I held off given that I wanted to be sure that it was worth my time and money, the consensus was that it was not so I held off and will pick it up when it's cheap. I didn't pay 60-70 euro for it and then cry about how I was ripped off. If you bought the game without doing your homework then you only have yourself to blame

Venom

gizmo wrote: »

All seems totally reasonable to me.

On that note, I have a more general question about some of this though. If Murray was to say that earlier in development some of the features existed but were later cut because they either didn't work correctly or they ran out of time to polish them, what would folk have expected to happen? Take, for instance, the landing on asteroids feature that was said to exist in the game in December 2014 but isn't present in the final release. Would it be expected for them to come out with a mini press release saying that particular feature was cut prior to release? Or would it have been more appropriate for him to raise it himself during a subsequent interview?

Well by using honest promotional videos showing the current game/builds content and not the E3 version with all the bells and whistles that are missing would of been a start.

super_furry

Deleted User wrote: »

Homefront 2 is a game I was excited for but I held off given that I wanted to be sure that it was worth my time and money, the consensus was that it was not so I held off and will pick it up when it's cheap.

Don't. I picked it up for €20 last week and it's gash - even at that price.

EoinHef

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

In Murray's defence, that is the one thing he has explicitly said since release

https://twitter.com/nomanssky/status/766240055069474821

No need to defend him as im not attcking him,he said that but have any features been added since he has? None to my knowledge. Im not gonna attack him because any of this,ive spent €60 though and would like to know what direction the game is gonna go though. If it looks like its not going a direction id like to see it go ill just stop playing the game and move on. Hello Games will be treated very suspiciously from here on out either way now though. No doubt they are tarnished at this point.

In answer to gizmo's question,if he said features were cut for x,y and z reason fair enough. Least we would know why there not there. Personally ive got no pitch fork in hand for this one. My only major gripe being that what was delivered was overpriced imo,€40 for this game and i think i would have no complaints. Especially if its never going to be much more than it is now.

Other people on the other hand i imagine are only waiting for hello games to speak out so they can attack them more,so not a great situation for them to be in.

chrislad

chrislad wrote: »

...Their silence is really deafening. The worst you can do is say nothing. If it's a case of an apology, a clear plan for future updates etc, that'd be something. Nothing just screams of taking money and running.

EoinHef wrote: »

Hello Games will be treated very suspiciously from here on out either way now though. No doubt they are tarnished at this point.

I 100% agree with both of you. They've really **** in their own backyard here - any goodwill they had built up over the last while has just been ripped to pieces. Within a couple of weeks they've mangled their own reputation, by doing exactly nothing.

EoinHef wrote: »

Other people on the other hand i imagine are only waiting for hello games to speak out so they can attack them more,so not a great situation for them to be in.

That's the thing though, because Hello Games are saying nothing, the only other thing to hear is the people attacking them and the game. (I'm not discounting the voices of people like johnny_ultimate and CiDeRmAn, but they can only do and say so much.)

EoinHef

The whole thing is really a great shame. Hello Games on only their third ever game,come up with a nice idea and a way to implement it through procedural generation,which in its own right is pretty impressive,but then its oversold in marketing and vague statements. Then we get left with this s**t show as the game ultimately failed to live up to the hype. Weather that hype be created by players in some cases and devs in others.

@Willfinity
Personally trying to put myself in their shoes i dont know what id do,i think most people would love a statement from them and they must know that. But at the same time they must really be s**tting themselves in case they say the wrong thing. In this day and age these things can lead to law suits etc. Just look at Nvidia and the 970 debacle. What was construed as dishonesty ended up in them being in court and having to pay every 970(Murica only) owner $30.

CiDeRmAn

So, can I take it that people are not anxiously awaiting the sequel? :P

Grayditch

Some Man's Sky. It definitely... may have multiplayer... features.

Venom

As much as I'd love to play the game that was shown in the PR demos, logically I don't believe this game going to get any more development from a content perspective. The company has made all the money their going to get bar steam sales and any notion of DLC for this game is dead in the water as who would believe anything they say again, so whats going to fund any development to add in cut from release or new content!

Leaving aside the amount of refunds on Steam, GoG, PSN and trade-in's in general, negative reviews hitting 63,000, a playerbase (on the PC ) that has fallen through the floor (only 10% still playing 2 weeks after release) and the fact there is a serious amount of ill will and bad press over how misrepresented the product was resulting in the developers name not being worth crap, who is Hello Games going to be developing for?

johnny_ultimate

Venom wrote: »

So whats going to fund any development to add in cut from release or new content!

Dare I suggest the hundreds of thousands of copies sold (actually probably creeping into the millions if the Steam estimates alone are in the 700-800,000 copies range)? Like even if I made the completely extreme and unfounded suggestion that half the copies were refunded (it's probably a fraction of that)... It is still a dizzying amount of sales. Trade-ins are still a sale. The game is indisputably a pretty unprecedented financial success from a small team, so perfectly within the realm of feasibility they can now support substantial development on free upgrades for quite some time.

Frankly, I'd be truly shocked if a team that has shown nothing but absolute commitment and passion about their game abandoned it immediately after release. Indeed, they've been very clearly actively working on the game ever since release, even if they're still in the 'stability' and 'bug fixes' stage (hopefully reaching the end of that process). Then, following this train of thought further, if they do indeed deliver updates that substantially 'improve' the game and maintain a steady playerbase (perhaps some new ones too!) in the medium term, that could pave the way for DLC or indeed some sort of follow-up down the line. Maybe - even hopefully - they don't even need either of the latter choices if things go well. Ill-received or middling titles have made triumphant comebacks before, after all (FFXIV, Destiny for example.)

Who is Hello Games going to be developing for?

The people who like the game (again, even if we're talking about a minority of whatever scale, it's still a substantial group of players)? The people who were disappointed but believe the game can be improved upon (several posters here have expressed such an opinion and a willingness to revisit)? Potential future customers, once the game inevitably goes on sale and could certainly be persuaded by some positive future press (no doubt there'd be a sales boost if positive vibes about a new update radiated around the net)? Hello themselves, now enabled and motivated to push themselves further & redeem themselves for both this & future projects? The angry Reddit and Steam forum armies may be baying for blood, but Hello have plenty of perfectly good reasons to continue with development

CiDeRmAn

Don't worry.
Those armies will be distracted soon enough.
Someone will make the decision to have the lead character in FarCry5 a non white female and the new hunt will be on.

Thargor

Mod scene for this seems to be coming along nicely, who knows maybe in a year or two we'll be playing a vast galaxy spanning Morrowind and we'll all be declaring it the greatest game ever made!

Maximus Alexander

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Don't worry.
Those armies will be distracted soon enough.
Someone will make the decision to have the lead character in FarCry5 a non white female and the new hunt will be on.

Nah, it's Ubisoft. They find women much too hard to animate.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Don't worry.
Those armies will be distracted soon enough.
Someone will make the decision to have the lead character in FarCry5 a non white female and the new hunt will be on.

Because all people that play videogames and complain are women hating racist misogynists and gamergaters.

Definitely not because they are concerned that a company can sell them something based on misleading adverts and information and some how get a free pass from many of its fans. But sure this week in Ireland we've seen companies never lie.

MOH

Venom wrote: »

As much as I'd love to play the game that was shown in the PR demos, logically I don't believe this game going to get any more development from a content perspective. The company has made all the money their going to get bar steam sales and any notion of DLC for this game is dead in the water as who would believe anything they say again, so whats going to fund any development to add in cut from release or new content!

Leaving aside the amount of refunds on Steam, GoG, PSN and trade-in's in general, negative reviews hitting 63,000, a playerbase (on the PC ) that has fallen through the floor (only 10% still playing 2 weeks after release) and the fact there is a serious amount of ill will and bad press over how misrepresented the product was resulting in the developers name not being worth crap, who is Hello Games going to be developing for?

The playerbase going through the floor thing is fairly misleading.
In the first week it had 700,000 owners, and 212,000 concurrent users on the first day, which dropped off over the next couple of weeks and seems to have stabilised around 20,000 concurrent. Those were insane opening figures, and were never going to be sustained.

By contrast, Deus Ex started with 52,000 concurrent users at release, which is already down to 30,000.
DeusEx ownership also climbed fairly steadily, as you'd expect, hitting 265,000 yesterday. NMS was at 700,000 after just 4 days (100k day 1, 400k day 2).

OK, those numbers are off SteamSpy, and don't reflect the entire picture. There might be more sources for buying DeusEx so the Steam figures might be lower for that. But I think it's probably a fair comparison, and shows just how much the hype machine led to NMS having hugely inflated, and unsustainable, sales/players on day 1. Especially when you consider it's a completely new IP, compared to something like DeusEx which would have a massive existing fanbase.

Zillah

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, can I take it that people are not anxiously awaiting the sequel? :P

Oh man that's the worst thing: I actually really am. I think there is a such a good experience to be had based on such procedural technology, they just created such poor gameplay to go with it. I really think the second one could be amazing if they get some fresh blood on the team.