Setting up a freshwater aquarium... what do I need to consider?

mrcheez

I am considering setting up a freshwater aquarium (probably around 180 litres) and have a few questions...

- I assume I'm limited to goldfish if going with freshwater is this correct?

- Say I'm away for a week, is there an automated fish-feeder I can get? (obviously I'd have someone come in periodically to ensure it's working correctly)

- To ensure the welfare of the fish, what sort of cleaning regime should I expect to undertake?

- How many goldfish could comfortably live in 180 litres?

- What equipment should I ensure I have in an aquarium?

SingItOut

Goldfish are actually meant to be kept outdoors in ponds, not aquariums indoors in general but they should be fine with weekly water changes in a tank that size. From experience Goldfish tend to live longer in outdoor ponds.

If you've never had them before - Goldfish can be very smelly and dirty their water pretty quickly. Make sure you have an appropriate sized filter and always have a few spare filter sponges to hand incase of an emergency.

The majority of pet shops have "holiday blocks" which will release food slowly for up to a week if you have to leave the fish for a few days, their only about €3 for a block. My Koi are not big fans of them though.

mrcheez

I'd like the aquarium to be fairly low maintenance and inexpensive to run, so I'm assuming that rules out tropical fish?

Any other species I should consider that would meet those requirements?

I've had a goldfish before so well aware how often they need to be cleaned out!

Silverfish

For 180 litres I'd get a heater and go with tropicals over goldfish, definitely.

Tropicals produce much less waste and can be stocked slightly higher than goldfish, and you have much more variety in what to get.

mrcheez

Wouldn't that be more expensive to run than a standard fresh-water cold aquarium?

Silverfish

mrcheez wrote: »

Wouldn't that be more expensive to run than a standard fresh-water cold aquarium?

Not really, heaters have a thermostat so they just maintain the water at a certain temp, they're not on constantly.

Tropicals are freshwater too, just slightly lower temperatures. My goldfish are at 24 degrees constantly, but require an additional external filter as well as the internal filter.

My tropicals just have a heater and an internal filter and get a small water change once a week, and it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen, whereas with the goldfish if I miss a week, the nitrates go up a lot. Overall the tropicals are way less hassle.

mrcheez

Interesting thanks. I would prefer tropicals though from my brief scan of the interwebs it seemed like the annual cost of keeping them was pretty damned high compared to cold water.

Silverfish wrote: »

My tropicals just have a heater and an internal filter and get a small water change once a week, and it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen

Hmm would I really need to change the water every week?

I was sort of hoping the water change would be once a month at the most.

Silverfish

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting thanks. I would prefer tropicals though from my brief scan of the interwebs it seemed like the annual cost of keeping them was pretty damned high compared to cold water.



Hmm would I really need to change the water every week?

I was sort of hoping the water change would be once a month at the most.

Water changes of between 10-25% every week would be advisable. A month would be way too long. If it was very understocked, every two weeks might be okay, but you'd need to test the water.
If you're keeping goldfish (only 2 /3 fancies would be suitable for that tank size) the water change would have to be 25% weekly.
My tank is 350litres so every week I change 100 litres, a water change on 180L sounds like a dream!

Not sure about the cost of the usage, you'd probably need a 100watt heater maybe, and it would need to be at around 26 -28degrees for tropicals, so depending on how warm your house is overall the heater might not need to kick in all the time, maybe just at night.

gillholmes

mrcheez wrote: »

I am considering setting up a freshwater aquarium (probably around 180 litres) and have a few questions...

- I assume I'm limited to goldfish if going with freshwater is this correct?

- Say I'm away for a week, is there an automated fish-feeder I can get? (obviously I'd have someone come in periodically to ensure it's working correctly)

- To ensure the welfare of the fish, what sort of cleaning regime should I expect to undertake?

- How many goldfish could comfortably live in 180 litres?

- What equipment should I ensure I have in an aquarium?

If you get a heather you can have tropical fish (Much better)
There are automated fish feeders in most pet shops
with a 180 liter thank you could have a good amount of fish depending on what type you go for (Gubbys, Tetra, Bala sharks Etc) Or coldwater fish

Silverfish

Also you can have shrimps too (depending on the fish you have in there) and shrimps are about the best thing you can keep.

gillholmes

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting thanks. I would prefer tropicals though from my brief scan of the interwebs it seemed like the annual cost of keeping them was pretty damned high compared to cold water.



Hmm would I really need to change the water every week?

I was sort of hoping the water change would be once a month at the most.

I dont think a water change is needed once a week i rarely do it and have healthy long living fish. Tropical fish cant be cheep to have just the set up at the start can be costly but then u could just get a few here and there and even get some breaders.

mrcheez

Silverfish wrote: »

Also you can have shrimps too (depending on the fish you have in there) and shrimps are about the best thing you can keep.

What are the advantages of shrimp (apart from looking great!)?

EDIT: Just found a few links... they do some of the cleaning for me. Handy.. I assume I don't need saltwater for shrimp?

mrcheez

So, say I had a shrimp tank (I have 1m wide x 4m high space, so I'm estimating a 180-200 litre tank) what would be the ideal for:

- Fish (I take it they have to be small to not eat the shrimp)

- Filter (how many required?)

- Plants/Decor (do I just get the plastic things?)

- Lighting (which brand is best?)

- Heater (which brand is best?)

Apart from the tank itself, anything else I need to get?

Silverfish

Most tanks come with a filter /heater / lights, sometimes 2nd hand ones might not have the heater. With trops, just the one filter will do.

As for fish, go to a fish shop, see what you like! It's not possible to come out without wanting at least one type of fish. Find out if you have hard or soft water / ph etc, that way you can get fish that will suit the water rather than trying to make the water suit the fish.

Plants : plastic if you like, real ones are easier, the amazon swords / Anubias etc etc grow really well.

Amano shrimp live quite well with a good few types of fish, they'll clean up any leftover food etc so are a big help.

sebcity

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting thanks. I would prefer tropicals though from my brief scan of the interwebs it seemed like the annual cost of keeping them was pretty damned high compared to cold water.



Hmm would I really need to change the water every week?

I was sort of hoping the water change would be once a month at the most.

I reckon it's about 4 euro a month max to run a heater in a tropical tank that size. It's worth it just for the increase in choice of fish. Also, as mentioned before, tropical fish can be much smaller so have less of a bio-load so less water changes necessary. There are a few species of smaller coldwater fish such as white cloud mountain minnows which are pretty cool if you really don't want to go down the tropical route.

In regards the water changes, if you're anyway concerned about the health of your fish you'll do the water changes....if not, then you need to ask yourself do you really want to keep fish! It takes half an hour, hardly taxing.

It's an addictive hobby!

mrcheez

sebcity wrote: »

In regards the water changes, if you're anyway concerned about the health of your fish you'll do the water changes....if not, then you need to ask yourself do you really want to keep fish! It takes half an hour, hardly taxing.

That's it exactly, I want to make sure if I will be able to take care of the fish properly. If I thought that there is no way I can do all the required tasks to keep the fish healthy I wouldn't venture down this path. Hence why I'm asking ye what's involved and then I'll decide whether or not to do it.

For example, I'd never get a dog because I know the dog would be left alone in the house all day which is cruel, plus I'm always wrecked when I get home from work after cycling 12km so wouldn't have the energy to take the dog for a walk.

I'm sure there's an argument to say an aquarium is cruel as well... but I guess that's a different debate.

From what I can tell, having fish in an aquarium should suit me as spending one day a week topping up the tank isn't a big ask.

I tend to go away for 3 week holidays once a year, would the water be ok during this period?

CruelCoin

mrcheez wrote: »

Hmm would I really need to change the water every week?

No.

I assume you are familiar with the ammonia cycle?

Fish poops ammonia (toxic), filter breaks down to nitrite (also toxic), filter breaks down to nitrate (toxic in large doses only).

Water changes are done largely to keep nitrate levels below a certain threshold. Some say 40 parts per million, others say 60, etc.

Advice given to make a weekly change is usually done out of simplicity's sake. No need to test the water, etc if you just make it a routine to change more than the fish can pollute.

I test, and change as needed only, as fish can often find the process stressfull.

CruelCoin

mrcheez wrote: »

I tend to go away for 3 week holidays once a year, would the water be ok during this period?

Yes, i do this all the time.

In the week leading up to the holiday, do several big water changes (3 times 50%).

As per my last reply, this would bring nitrate levels way down, so you have more leadtime before needing another change.

I have had a guilty moment where i let levels go as high as 120ppm during college, as i just didn't have the time to do changes. I had zero losses among the fish.
It really depends on the fish. Its absolutely desireable to do changes, but no strictly essential.

CruelCoin

Silverfish wrote: »

maybe, and it would need to be at around 26 -28degrees for tropicals

This is very warm for continuous stocking. Better for a community tank is around the 25c mark. Though this is something nobody agrees on. Some will say 24, others 26, others 28. I keep mine at 23 to encourage breeding.

OP, some keepers really enjoy seeing breeding amongst the fish.
Cooler temperatures, and a large water change can trigger breeding as this simulates the rainy season in the wild.

sebcity

Depending on your stocking levels you should be able to get away for three weeks with no water changes . You'd need to get an automatic feeder though.

If you're getting someone to come by to feed the fish sure just teach them to a little water change!

I would not recommend the slow release food blocks. They destroy the water quality and some fish can overfeed on them.

I understand what you are saying about dedicating the time. For the first few weeks you would need to tend to the tank while it is cycling i.e. testing the water etc. Getting your tank laid out the way you want to. Researching what fish to stock. Going to the lfs. Once the tank is established and stocked it should never take more than half hour out of your week. I have 2 freshwater tanks and a marine tank. I set aside an hour every Monday evening and do all maintenance, water changes, glass cleaning etc. That's it. I can just enjoy them then!

Where are you based?

CruelCoin

mrcheez wrote: »

So, say I had a shrimp tank (I have 1m wide x 4m high space, so I'm estimating a 180-200 litre tank) what would be the ideal for:

- Fish (I take it they have to be small to not eat the shrimp)

Yup. Tetras are hugely popular for beginning fishkeepers. Cardinals, rummynose, bleeding heart, harlequins, etc etc. huge range available.


- Filter (how many required?)

Depends on who you ask. A good guide is something that can turn the water over 3-5 times per hour. So, for your 180lt tank (minus space used by decore, substrate, etc, so lets say 150 liters of actual water) you'd want a filter with an output of 450-750 litres per hour. Obviously, the higher the output, the more fish you can stock, as you can keep ahead of the ammonia output more easily with higher flow rates.

- Plants/Decor (do I just get the plastic things?)

I'm nuts for plants in my tank. Good beginner plants (low light, no co2, low maintenance) are Vallisneria and anubias. There are several species of each. Go to tropica http://tropica.com/en/plants/ for some good advice, and to see what you can get. There are several different major suppliers, but i prefer these guys.

- Lighting (which brand is best?)

Not sure, many fish live in blackwater (light tea colour water) in the wild. Bright lighting disturbs some fish but not others. Do your research.
Max 8 hours per day.

Hi, mine in red above.

mrcheez

Thanks all, I suspected it would require a bit of research... seahorseaquariums.com a good place to pickup fish (get advice etc), or any others to recommend in North Dublin?

CruelCoin

mrcheez wrote: »

Thanks all, I suspected it would require a bit of research... seahorseaquariums.com a good place to pickup fish (get advice etc), or any others to recommend in North Dublin?

Arthane aquatics is another good one, though i prefer seahorse (much larger, better range).

Place is packed on a weekend though, and people don't really have time to talk, which is understandable.
Better to visit on a weekday.

There are also two dedicated fishkeeping forums i use, one Irish and small, one English and large.

Practical fishkeeping, and the Irish Tropical Fishkeepers Society.

Red Nissan

Tropical fish are the way to go. There is a lot to learn about them but they have great personalities and far more interesting than the Gold Fish.

If you spend a bit of money on the setup and plan ahead ~ remember that you must make your tank up several weeks before introducing stock, consider what type of fish, aggressive, communal, passive and get an algae eater or two and they'll even clean the tank for you.

Tropicals can take a bit of time to get right and the bigger fish eat the smaller ones so one may have to tear down the tank every couple of years to start again so there is a refreshing of interest.

mrcheez

I kinda like the idea of the shrimp, so tetras would be cool, although something like this would kick ass (I imagine a fair amount of work to keep a Siamese Fighting Fish in an aquarium)

Actually has anyone gone for a "glow fish" look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9PEBPnhWU

Looks amazing in a darkened room, but are these fish available in Ireland?

SingItOut

mrcheez wrote: »

I kinda like the idea of the shrimp, so tetras would be cool, although something like this would kick ass (I imagine a fair amount of work to keep a Siamese Fighting Fish in an aquarium)

Siamese fighters are actually not that difficult to keep at all, I had a male and female for years they can't be kept with some other types though

kylith

I'm a big fan of Bettas (Siamese fighters), but they tend not to be very long lived, about a year or so. They can be difficult to keep with other species because you'll need to find ones peaceful enough that they won't nip the betta's fins, and drab enough that the betta doesn't see them as rivals, but many people keep them with tetras with no problems. They're a wonderful little fish, with big personalities. Because of the big fins they tend to be quite slow swimmers and can't handle a lot of current in the tank. I'm planning on getting another one at some point in the future.

sebcity

Glofish are illegal in Ireland.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/pretty-in-pink-but-dont-splash-out-on-glofish-26544078.html

CruelCoin

mrcheez wrote: »

(I imagine a fair amount of work to keep a Siamese Fighting Fish in an aquarium)

Actually the complete opposite.

Extremely hardy fish. Can be temperamental, hence the name.

Often stocked in shops in tiny little cubes, no filtration or anything.

Seahorse has a rack of siamese, all in 10x10x10cm cubes....

mrcheez

I take it the shrimps wouldn't last one hour with one of them though.

What sort of "cleaner" animal would go with a Betta? Snail perhaps?

CruelCoin

Bettas (fighter fish) can vary fish to fish. Some will murder shrimp, others will not. Best to steer clear.

Apple snails are quite nice.

I also really like Assassin snails and have them in all my tanks.

A sad fact of using live plants in your tank is that they often carry pest snails in with them, which then breed like ****ing rabbits. Ugly. Assassin snails are predatory snails that will kill a number of the pests, and eat uneaten food etc.

You can try ottocinclus. Small fish, algae grazers.

You really are better off relying on your maintenance regime to keep the tank clean, not your animals. They will help, but by no means do it all.

Have a google for compatibility charts like this one http://www.recipeapart.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/freshwater-fish-compatibility-chart.jpg to see what can be stocked together.