Gay adoption, Put the childs feelings first

PLUG71

tiablue wrote: »

theres literally only a couple of people on here making valid points and having something remotely smart to say and not jumping down my throat for having an opinion, so im ignoring the silly replys and only talking to the ones who have an actual opinion or something useful to say as there is no point reading comments that are just looking to vent a bit of anger over somebodys opinion

Why use Boards if you cant take varied opinion in regards to your own?

tiablue

anyway people i have a life to live, im off ... Have fun sharing your amazing opinions on here toodles

Delirium

tiablue wrote: »

Kids are always going to bully other kids and that will always be an issue because some parents dont seem to teach their kids how wrong it is and how it affects others. And to say not all kids with gay parents will be bullied, thats just not realistic, it might not be everyday bullying from the school bully but it will have comments made at some stage, thats still bullying

and you think that barring same-sex couples from adopting is the way to tackle that?

ted1

Kids need to have stable home life and to be loved and cared for. if a gay couple can do this, then I don't see any issue.

plenty of hetro couples who have kids can't /don't offer this to the kids and quite frankly make bad parents.

PLUG71

tiablue wrote: »

anyway people i have a life to live, im off ... Have fun sharing your amazing opinions on here toodles

What a tool!!

J_E

tiablue wrote: »

anyway people i have a life to live, im off ... Have fun sharing your amazing opinions on here toodles

You had the choice of having a constructive discussion of the topic or stamping your feet when someone decided that gay parents aren't terrible for children. Sad to see a topic end so abruptly from an attitude problem. I wouldn't have minded to actually explore the issue...

PLUG71

Cydoniac wrote: »

You had the choice of having a constructive discussion of the topic or stamping your feet when someone decided that gay parents aren't terrible for children. Sad to see a topic end so abruptly from an attitude problem. I wouldn't have minded to actually explore the issue...

I could not have put any better than this!

tiablue

Cydoniac wrote: »

You had the choice of having a constructive discussion of the topic or stamping your feet when someone decided that gay parents aren't terrible for children. Sad to see a topic end so abruptly from an attitude problem. I wouldn't have minded to actually explore the issue...

whos stamping their feet, i actually have work to go to lol.... yes i would also liked to have listened to a few good valid points and see what people had to say but nobody had anything great to say about it they were more interested in having a go at me instead lol... bye bye

rainbow kirby

tiablue wrote: »

how do you think ive a grudge against bi people having kids???

I'd tell you to reread your original post, but it appears you would rather throw your toys out of the pram. Toodles

J_E

tiablue wrote: »

whos stamping their feet, i actually have work to go to lol.... yes i would also liked to have listened to a few good valid points and see what people had to say but nobody had anything great to say about it they were more interested in having a go at me instead lol... bye bye

Having a go at someone is not the same as contesting their opinion. Nobody called you an idiot or anything that constitutes a personal attack. However, you have decided to discredit everyone else on this thread. Have a good evening!

tiablue

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I'd tell you to reread your original post, but it appears you would rather throw your toys out of the pram. Toodles

No you read it love.... not once did i say anything bad about bi's

conorwalsh222

tiablue wrote: »

anyway people i have a life to live, im off ... Have fun sharing your amazing opinions on here toodles

WOW, realised you could not back up your own argument whatsover so decided to act like an immature child and just leave the forum YOU started, idiot!

Mick55

tiablue wrote: »

i would also liked to have listened to a few good valid points and see what people had to say

If you think you have a valid point and would like to engage in an adult debate feel free to come back again after work tomorrow, nothing stopping you.

baby and crumble

Op, I know you're living your life right now, but in case you come back...

1) What kinds of opinions did you think you would receive in the LGBT forum when you basically came in and said that gay adoption is a bad thing because kids might get bullied about their parents? Did you honestly think you'd have much support?

2) Children bully other children because they can. Because they weren't taught empathy, or they're acting out, or whatever. A child who would not bully someone about being fat, for example, is probably not going to bully them for having gay parents, or being poor, or whatever. Bullies bully for power and a feeling of accomplishment and superiority. The actual 'reason' for the bullying is secondary.

3) I was bullied when I was a child because I'm not catholic. My parents had children and brought them up in a minority religion in Ireland, which made me very different from a lot of children my age in my local area. Are you honestly telling me that that was my parents fault? That unless you are in the majority in every way, you should not have children or raise them? That come dangerously close to a eugenics type argument.

Likewise someone who has a disability. Should their parents have aborted them because they are more likely to be bullied than other kids? The parents are not the cause of bullying taking place, but thy can be the cause of it stopping.

4) The more normalised something is, the less likely a child is to have THAT element of their lives become the focus of the bullying. It sucks for the "trail blazers" but it's the truth.

5) I actually think that as gay people, we are perhaps better equipped to work with our children who may be getting bullied (or doing the bullying) to explain why it's not acceptable, and that it's not personal. We are way more likely to have been, as kids, the victims of bullies and abuse across out lifespan. We may have first hand experience in dealing with it. We can pass that on to our children to become part of the solution, not the problem.

I hope that's "logical" enough for you. Personally, I think your attitude reeks of homophobia- like Panti said you don't have to be beating people up to be homophobic. But there are key points for discussion that your thread has raised.

Annasopra

Right ok folks - MOD note to everyone

1 Stop saying "I have a right to an opinion" - if you feel your opinion is being unduly restricted then report posts.
2 Stop calling posters childish, immature etc.
3 Attack the post not the poster.
4 Debate the issue not whether a poster has a right to an opinion or not
5 Do not tell people what they can and cannot discuss. Thats back seat moderating
6 Do not call other peoples opinions stupid - point out why think their opinion is wrong

EDIT - upon looking at this thread again I have handed out some yellow cards

ethernet

I hate the OP's notion of "inflicting" gay adoption on children. If the child isn't wanted by its biological parents or will have a substandard childhood in their care, then THAT is inflicting something dreadful upon them. As always, why does it matter who adopts them so long as they can provide a stable, loving home?

Re. bullying, yes, there will always be some degree of that. All children should be encouraged to report bullying in the first instance. We're mostly LGBT. We're thick-skinned. Some snide remark from a bigoted parent isn't going to phase us easily.

As has already been said, allowing adoption of children by gay couples (not just individuals) will encourage normalisation.

Zillah

Passive aggressiveness is so so unpleasant ok toodles

Annasopra

Zillah wrote: »

Passive aggressiveness is so so unpleasant ok toodles

Can we keep this thread on topic

I'll hand out more yellow cards and then red cards if we can't

Um, but it's no longer "someone else's kid" once he or she is adopted. I don't get why it's ok for gay people to bring up children as long as they're their biological children but if they have someone else's DNA then all bets are off. Kind of feels like adopted children aren't to be treated the same as non adopted children. That's very sad really.

amdublin

Personally I think alcoholics shouldn't be allowed have children.

Scruffy...The Janitor

OP I don't know what you look or act like or if you have children. If you do I guarantee there is something about you that a bully could use to single out your children if they wanted to. Bullies don't tend to pick on kids because of certain features about themselves or their parents, they look for who they perceive as weaker than themselves, then use something personal as a weapon. If Child A wants to bully Child B then they will do so. If Child B has gay parents, then that's what will be used. If Child B has fat parents then that will be used. The child is still getting bullied, it's just a different insult being thrown.

You also ask why would gay couples "inflict it on someone else's kids". When a couple adopts a child they no longer see it as "someone else's kid". That's their child. They raise that child. They love that child. They provide for, nurture and care for that child. The child will call them Mammy and Daddy/ Daddy and Daddy/ Mammy and Mammy. Adoptive parents are no less parents, and the children are no less their children. And that's what's really important. I would much rather a child being adopted by a loving gay couple who will care for them than see a child lost in the system feeling unwanted and unloved.

I do think the argument that children will be bullied is very weak. To deny the equal rights of a whole section of society because we're worried about the reaction of others is absolutely abhorrent and should never be used as an excuse or reason for discrimination.

whitelight

I agree .if a child was to be bullied about having gay parents i think it would just reflect the poor job that a lot of "regular"parents are doing in raising a child for life in modern society where they will also expect to be accepted and respected.

floggg

tiablue wrote: »

why arent any of ye understanding that i am entitled to my own opinion???

why let somebody elses child put up with being bullied and teased over it?

You know this sort of comment shows a real ignorance of the concept of free speech or freedom of opinion, not to mention the very nature of debate.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. Why aren't you understanding that everybody else is entitled to their opinion on your opinion though?

Being entitled to an opinion doesn't mean you get to throw it out there and expect it to be accepted as valid just because you expressed it. People have the right of rebuttal and to critique and debate your opinion.

If you aren't willing to justify and defend your opinion then don't throw it out there in the first place.

And if you are unable to defend or justify it, get a better opinion.

Edit: Sorry - posted before I saw mod note.

floggg

tiablue wrote: »

Yes you know me so well to be able to say i dont care about kids being bullied for any other reason.......... I am simply saying I am not talking about that right now, and if you read the posts you'd see i said bullying is wrong. or was that not specific enough for your liking, should i have went in to detail about all the other types of bullying and reasons for it when the thread was about gay adoption

OP in case you came back, the reason other people are bringing up other circumstances is quite simple - if you have to very clearly comparable situations to which the same reasoning, approach and/or rules are capable of being applied, then in the absence of objectively justifiable reasons for doing so, applying different rules, or treating persons in similar situations unequally is an arbitrary, unjust and unlawful discrimination.

So in pointing to the other examples where kids can be bullied as a result of something attributable to their adoptive parents, such as race, skin colour, religion, hair colour, disability, profession, socio-economic status etc, the other posters are demonstrating (quite simply and effectively) why your position (that same sex adoption should be banned did to the risk of bullying, but not in the other cases above it seems) is an arbitrary, unjust (and hopefully very soon) and unlawful form of discrimination.

Until you can come up with a cogent reason why the same considerations do not apply in the circumstances I referred to above, you will be unable to credibly argue otherwise.

Rick_

tiablue wrote: »

why arent any of ye understanding that i am entitled to my own opinion???

You are absolutely correct. You are and I'll defend your right to have it. But, what is strange is why you decided to come on to this section of the Boards and make a provocative post. Was it simply to get a reaction, are you interested in debate or did you just come here to state your view and expect us to all pat you on the back and tell you that you're right? Remember, we are entitled to our own opinion as much as you are to yours. It works both ways.

tiablue

Paddy C wrote: »

You are absolutely correct. You are and I'll defend your right to have it. But, what is strange is why you decided to come on to this section of the Boards and make a provocative post. Was it simply to get a reaction, are you interested in debate or did you just come here to state your view and expect us to all pat you on the back and tell you that you're right? Remember, we are entitled to our own opinion as much as you are to yours. It works both ways.

I was sharing my thoughts on it the same as everyone else, I wanted to see if people agreed or disagree as I was shocked to find lots of my gay friends shared my thoughts on it. but I didnt actually want to hear other what ifs and buts and other kind of topics thrown into the mix because it was going off topic completely. i would have made another thread talking about the other topics, as i said i asked about peoples thoughts on gay adoption, i didnt ask on numerous types off reasons that people get bullied

eviltwin

tiablue wrote: »

I was sharing my thoughts on it the same as everyone else, I wanted to see if people agreed or disagree as I was shocked to find lots of my gay friends shared my thoughts on it. but I didnt actually want to hear other what ifs and buts and other kind of topics thrown into the mix because it was going off topic completely. i would have made another thread talking about the other topics, as i said i asked about peoples thoughts on gay adoption, i didnt ask on numerous types off reasons that people get bullied

this topic has been done to death on boards, some people agree and some don't, some people would have other reasons for not agreeing with gay adoption, some people don't have an opinion. Whatever you opinion gay people are already adopting kids so arguing about it is a bit moot.

tiablue

eviltwin wrote: »

this topic has been done to death on boards, some people agree and some don't, some people would have other reasons for not agreeing with gay adoption, some people don't have an opinion. Whatever you opinion gay people are already adopting kids so arguing about it is a bit moot.

whatever, its boring me now

floggg

tiablue wrote: »

I was sharing my thoughts on it the same as everyone else, I wanted to see if people agreed or disagree as I was shocked to find lots of my gay friends shared my thoughts on it. but I didnt actually want to hear other what ifs and buts and other kind of topics thrown into the mix because it was going off topic completely. i would have made another thread talking about the other topics, as i said i asked about peoples thoughts on gay adoption, i didnt ask on numerous types off reasons that people get bullied

See below. The points made were completely on topic.

floggg wrote: »

OP in case you came back, the reason other people are bringing up other circumstances is quite simple - if you have to very clearly comparable situations to which the same reasoning, approach and/or rules are capable of being applied, then in the absence of objectively justifiable reasons for doing so, applying different rules, or treating persons in similar situations unequally is an arbitrary, unjust and unlawful discrimination.

So in pointing to the other examples where kids can be bullied as a result of something attributable to their adoptive parents, such as race, skin colour, religion, hair colour, disability, profession, socio-economic status etc, the other posters are demonstrating (quite simply and effectively) why your position (that same sex adoption should be banned did to the risk of bullying, but not in the other cases above it seems) is an arbitrary, unjust (and hopefully very soon) and unlawful form of discrimination.

Until you can come up with a cogent reason why the same considerations do not apply in the circumstances I referred to above, you will be unable to credibly argue otherwise.

eviltwin

tiablue wrote: »

whatever, its boring me now

and so say all of us

tiablue

floggg wrote: »

See below. The points made were completely on topic.

id rather not read it i have things to do, thanks

floggg

tiablue wrote: »

id rather not read it i have things to do, thanks

It's amazing how busy people can suddenly get when confronted with a reasoned argument or asked to justify and defend poorly thought out arguments.

tiablue

floggg wrote: »

It's amazing how busy people can suddenly get when confronted with a reasoned argument or asked to justify and defend poorly thought out arguments.

i said all i had to say and answered enough people,but sure when ye keep repeating yourself and i answer and ye say the same things over again im obviously not going to be interested and its really boring and nobody had anything new to say to be honest, instead of going on about a million reasons people could be bullied, why didnt anybody decide to mention and point out some of the good points and reasons of gay adoption for somebody who might be reading and think oh i never thought about it like that but ye really didnt ye just kept going on and on and on about my view on it, so im done with this boring thread now, thanks, take care bye

Scruffy...The Janitor

tiablue wrote: »

i said all i had to say and answered enough people,but sure when ye keep repeating yourself and i answer and ye say the same things over again im obviously not going to be interested and its really boring and nobody had anything new to say to be honest, instead of going on about a million reasons people could be bullied, why didnt anybody decide to mention and point out some of the good points and reasons of gay adoption for somebody who might be reading and think oh i never thought about it like that but ye really didnt ye just kept going on and on and on about my view on it, so im done with this boring thread now, thanks, take care bye

Several people have pointed out reasons in favour of gay adoption. Some people made the point that kids are bullied for loads of reasons so it's not fair to deny gay people the right to adopt any more than it is to deny ginger people, fat people, stupid people, people of different races etc. It's a very valid argument but for some reason you decided it wasn't. Even if you take out those posts, there have been several posts which refute your argument with some very good reasons.

I'd love to read any more points or reasons you or anyone else have for being against gay adoption. You don't seem to have put any more forward apart from your initial ones which, like i say, have been pretty well argued against. This will be a hot topic soon as it's planned to be legislated for no matter what the outcome of the marriage referendum.

It would be nice to hear and consider peoples reasons for being against gay adoption and maybe even have a well thought out discussion and debate. I've yet to see or read someone give well thought out, robust points and arguments for their 'anti' stance

Annasopra

tiablue wrote: »

I was sharing my thoughts on it the same as everyone else, I wanted to see if people agreed or disagree as I was shocked to find lots of my gay friends shared my thoughts on it. but I didnt actually want to hear other what ifs and buts and other kind of topics thrown into the mix because it was going off topic completely. i would have made another thread talking about the other topics, as i said i asked about peoples thoughts on gay adoption, i didnt ask on numerous types off reasons that people get bullied

Mod comment
Hi Tiablue

You cannot decide what this discussion is about. Moderators are the ones who are responsible for guiding discussions. I feel that if you want a genuine and honest debate you must be willing to listen to all viewpoints. Otherwise you are just soapboxing and backseat moderating - both of these are against the forum charter.

Posters may have reacted angrily towards you earlier but I think that is perhaps for several reasons
1 You tried to restrict discussion to things you wanted to discuss
2 You suggested that no-one should should disagree with your opinion
3 You accused other posters of not allowing you to express your opinion
4 You accused other posters of having invalid points and jumping down your throat
5 You accused other posters of having stupid opinions and personally attacking you

Perhaps if you want to continue the discussion you should reflect on all of the above and engage in actual discussion

J_E

One thing I find interesting in the whole gay adoption debate is the way in which it's talked about, in the sense of what-if scenarios and potentialities. The thing is - there is no maybe or possible future, it's already happening now. we're at a stage where children of gay parents are now adults, and the consensus is that they turn out much like any other child does given a stable environment. That's not speculation, it's just how it is. Every child can overcome the struggles of bullying and abuse if they have a strong network of people to trust, be it in school or home. It can't be a parents' failing if a child gets abused - that's absurd. It's like blaming parents for giving their child glasses if they get called four-eyes or something pedantic.

Even that notion of 'putting the childs feelings first' is so accusative and suggestive of many negative things. I don't think there are many if any gay parents in Ireland who would not put their child first and consider their feelings, and give them the best shot at life. These are parents who have really had to fight for that right to nurture a child. The real issue lies with those bullies who have had it ingrained into them from an early age that certain things are 'weird' or 'just wrong'. To blame a parent for being selfish to want to raise a child or, even worse, suggest that a child is merely a 'commodity' or accessory, is quite distasteful.

tiablue, this is merely answering your thread title, and giving my own opinion like you requested.

tiablue

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Hi Tiablue

You cannot decide what this discussion is about. Moderators are the ones who are responsible for guiding discussions. I feel that if you want a genuine and honest debate you must be willing to listen to all viewpoints. Otherwise you are just soapboxing and backseat moderating - both of these are against the forum charter.

Ok, so If i start a thread asking opinions on one topic i have to read about a lot of other topics thrown into the mix .... oh ok

tiablue

Cydoniac wrote: »

tiablue, this is merely answering your thread title, and giving my own opinion like you requested.

thank you cydoniac, people are finally realising what i am saying about having an opinion on it and sharing it!!! lol

tiablue

and ye make me laugh saying oh tiablue how can you brush off our opinions and say ours is wrong when the whole way through the thread yer telling me my view is wrong lol

Annasopra

tiablue wrote: »

Ok, so If i start a thread asking opinions on one topic i have to read about a lot of other topics thrown into the mix .... oh ok

FINAL MOD COMMENT

Yes - it's at the discretion of moderators to decide what is and isn't off topic. In this discussion you have been deciding that arguments you don't like or don't want to engage in discussion are off topic. Thats soapboxing.

I'm not engaging in more moderation with you on thread (as per the forum charter) but ask that you heed my three moderation posts and try to engage in constructive discussion. Any questions/comments PM me.

tiablue

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

FINAL MOD COMMENT

Yes - it's at the discretion of moderators to decide what is and isn't off topic. In this discussion you have been deciding that arguments you don't like or don't want to engage in discussion are off topic. Thats soapboxing.

I'm not engaging in more moderation with you on thread but ask that you heed my three moderation posts and try to engage in constructive discussion. Any questions/comments PM me.

Yes the same way as people are deciding they dont like what i have said or my arguments......so why is it that your pointing me out on it and not others, clearly an unfair moderator........and why would i engage in a discussion thats off topic if its no interest to me????

Backseat moderating.....soapboxing..... get a grip will ye for gods sake. its a forum will all go way and do something with your lives instead of getting worked up over a thread haha... sad people god love ye. OH NOOOO il get a yellow or red card.....poor me...Whatever will i do with my life if i cant post on here!!!!!!!!!! oh i know, i will continue with my life and not stew over a forum!! hahaha

wonderfulname

tiablue wrote: »

Yes the same way as people are deciding they dont like what i have said or my arguments......so why is it that your pointing me out on it and not others, clearly an unfair moderator........and why would i engage in a discussion thats off topic if its no interest to me????

Backseat moderating.....soapboxing..... get a grip will ye for gods sake. its a forum will all go way and do something with your lives instead of getting worked up over a thread haha... sad people god love ye. OH NOOOO il get a yellow or red card.....poor me...Whatever will i do with my life if i cant post on here!!!!!!!!!! oh i know, i will continue with my life and not stew over a forum!! hahaha

I guess we'll find out...

User banned for two weeks for ignoring mod instructions and personal abuse

nozzferrahhtoo

You seem to be a little sensitive and feel you are being "attacked" and "slated". So I will attempt to write this post in a form that is as palatable as I can make it while still remaining firm and clear and concise. I trust it will not offend your sensibilities too much. I did try.

tiablue wrote: »

Unfortunately in this day and age tolerance and respect arent being taught to alot of kids. And this is why i feel the way i do.

Then you should address that. Not gay parenting. The issue I see is that you are seeing a failing in one part of society..... and in the light of it trying to curtail the rights of others. Gay people should not parent because of the failure of the OTHER people you mention.

Do you really think that a wise approach to the situation? To identify one problem group and then address this by affecting the rights of an entirely different group???? It makes zero sense to me so I would love to see you adumbrate your reasoning on this directly and explicitly.

tiablue wrote: »

its a given that the child will experience bullying and teasing over it and its not fair to the child.

I see three major issues with your line of "reasoning" here. I will address them each in a separate paragraph.

The first I see is that you have just outright asserted that "it is a given". Alas I fear you are a little naive about bullying here and could probably do with doing some research on the subject. You seem to think that bullys go around looking for material like this.... like having gay parents.... and they pick their target like that. It does not work like that. Bullies are, above all, total and utter cowards and they pick their targets based on them being vulnerable and EASY targets. WHAT They bully the child about is incidental. It comes retrospectively. The pick the target first and the material later. If a child is going to be bullied.... it will happen.... regardless of the sexual configuration of their parents. If you get a high school jock with totally flamboyant gay parents.... and a high school nerd with a tiny pimple on his nose..... the latter will be bullied and the pimple will be zeroed in on as the material. The child of gay parents will be entirely free of bullying because he is not an easy target. Get this in summary: Bullies are cowards who choose their targets based on vulnerability..... not family background.

The second issue I see is the same thing as I already addressed before. You are curtailing the rights and ideals of one group because of the action of bullys. You are essentially giving in to the bullies. Or as the US would say "you are negotiating with terrorists. We do not negotiate with terrorists.". You are giving up the fight before it even begins, throwing up your arms in the air and declaring "Bullys exist therefore you should not adopt". This is AT BEST cowardly and lazy thinking.

The third issue I see is a kind of slippery slope issue. Where do you draw the line on your "reasoning"? Should midgets and the wheelchair dependant for example also be precluded from adoption for fear of their childs ridicule? And why stop at adoption if we are appeasing and retreating from the bullies? Should such people not also be precluded from procreation too? After all will this, in your mind, not also attract bullying and teasing and is therefore just as equally unfair to the child in your mind? Why single out the homosexual groups for this special removal of options? Should we sterilise red heads?

tiablue wrote: »

And kids growing up with the awful idea their gay parents are "weird"

Again I see at least two issues with this "thinking" on the matter.

The first is that it is only "weird" because we allow it to be. The more it happens the more normalized it is becoming. MORE Gay Adoption addresses this. Not less.

Secondly I am not aware of any kids who grew up thinking their parents "weird". Because they grew up in the situation it is as normal to them as your upbringing was to you. The same is true of single parenting. The rest of us in traditional nuclear families might find people without one of their parents "weird" but the people who grew up that way find it as natural as having a poo in the morning. The resentment you imagine is just that.... imagined.

tiablue wrote: »

I am speaking about the gay adoption and what ive seen it do to a friends kids

So you are essentially extrapolating a couple of second hand anecdotal experiences you have attained vicariously.... into a generalisation onto the subject as a whole? That is rarely a safe approach on any topic, let alone one as complex as this. I do not recommend you do this.

tiablue wrote: »

why arent any of ye understanding that i am entitled to my own opinion???

Oh we understand this 100% perfectly. What you appear to not be understanding is we are equally entitled to our counter opinion. Alas most of the people who get haughty about having a right to their opinion are actually taking offence to other people having a right to theirs.

tiablue wrote: »

i didnt say that

Not explicitly you did not. But it is essentially the implicit theme of your entire opinion on this topic. You disagree with gay adoption because of the actions of an entirely separate group of people. Therefore you are indeed implicitly saying that the actions of the latter group should dictate the rights of the former. This is not great reasoning on any level that I can see.

biko

Tbh OP, it seems to me you are focusing more on your own feelings than some child's.

I understand you point of view but tbh it's not up to you.

Mellamella

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

You seem to be a little sensitive and feel you are being "attacked" and "slated". So I will attempt to write this post in a form that is as palatable as I can make it while still remaining firm and clear and concise. I trust it will not offend your sensibilities too much. I did try.



Then you should address that. Not gay parenting. The issue I see is that you are seeing a failing in one part of society..... and in the light of it trying to curtail the rights of others. Gay people should not parent because of the failure of the OTHER people you mention.

Do you really think that a wise approach to the situation? To identify one problem group and then address this by affecting the rights of an entirely different group???? It makes zero sense to me so I would love to see you adumbrate your reasoning on this directly and explicitly.



I see three major issues with your line of "reasoning" here. I will address them each in a separate paragraph.

The first I see is that you have just outright asserted that "it is a given". Alas I fear you are a little naive about bullying here and could probably do with doing some research on the subject. You seem to think that bullys go around looking for material like this.... like having gay parents.... and they pick their target like that. It does not work like that. Bullies are, above all, total and utter cowards and they pick their targets based on them being vulnerable and EASY targets. WHAT They bully the child about is incidental. It comes retrospectively. The pick the target first and the material later. If a child is going to be bullied.... it will happen.... regardless of the sexual configuration of their parents. If you get a high school jock with totally flamboyant gay parents.... and a high school nerd with a tiny pimple on his nose..... the latter will be bullied and the pimple will be zeroed in on as the material. The child of gay parents will be entirely free of bullying because he is not an easy target. Get this in summary: Bullies are cowards who choose their targets based on vulnerability..... not family background.

The second issue I see is the same thing as I already addressed before. You are curtailing the rights and ideals of one group because of the action of bullys. You are essentially giving in to the bullies. Or as the US would say "you are negotiating with terrorists. We do not negotiate with terrorists.". You are giving up the fight before it even begins, throwing up your arms in the air and declaring "Bullys exist therefore you should not adopt". This is AT BEST cowardly and lazy thinking.

The third issue I see is a kind of slippery slope issue. Where do you draw the line on your "reasoning"? Should midgets and the wheelchair dependant for example also be precluded from adoption for fear of their childs ridicule? And why stop at adoption if we are appeasing and retreating from the bullies? Should such people not also be precluded from procreation too? After all will this, in your mind, not also attract bullying and teasing and is therefore just as equally unfair to the child in your mind? Why single out the homosexual groups for this special removal of options? Should we sterilise red heads?



Again I see at least two issues with this "thinking" on the matter.

The first is that it is only "weird" because we allow it to be. The more it happens the more normalized it is becoming. MORE Gay Adoption addresses this. Not less.

Secondly I am not aware of any kids who grew up thinking their parents "weird". Because they grew up in the situation it is as normal to them as your upbringing was to you. The same is true of single parenting. The rest of us in traditional nuclear families might find people without one of their parents "weird" but the people who grew up that way find it as natural as having a poo in the morning. The resentment you imagine is just that.... imagined.



So you are essentially extrapolating a couple of second hand anecdotal experiences you have attained vicariously.... into a generalisation onto the subject as a whole? That is rarely a safe approach on any topic, let alone one as complex as this. I do not recommend you do this.



Oh we understand this 100% perfectly. What you appear to not be understanding is we are equally entitled to our counter opinion. Alas most of the people who get haughty about having a right to their opinion are actually taking offence to other people having a right to theirs.



Not explicitly you did not. But it is essentially the implicit theme of your entire opinion on this topic. You disagree with gay adoption because of the actions of an entirely separate group of people. Therefore you are indeed implicitly saying that the actions of the latter group should dictate the rights of the former. This is not great reasoning on any level that I can see.

I am not going to read all of that but one part jumped out at me, tiablue did say they wanted to hear your opinions and you are hinting that tiablue didnt want to hear them. and i see why they said you are targetting their opinion, so just wondering why teablue is the only one adressed. doesnt seem fair considering you are all defending equality and all that
also my opinion is i can see where shes coming from with the bullying but other than that i dont see a problem with adoption.

ForstalDave

Should we not target the cause of the bullying rather than stop a child needing a home being given a home with loving parents, we need to teach kids from an early age that being gay(or transsexual, bi etc) is no different than being straight. The simple fact is that there are so many children that need loving homes and they should not be denied the chance to have them

nozzferrahhtoo

Mellamella wrote: »

so just wondering why teablue is the only one adressed.

Because I am addressing the points the user made and not the user themselves. And as such my reply would be identical no matter who it was targetted at. Which might be clearer if you bothered to read my entire post, which you indicated you did not.

Mellamella wrote: »

my opinion is i can see where shes coming from with the bullying

I however can not, and the user in the OP has failed to adumbrate any real reasoning on the issue. Perhaps you can make an attempt at it so we too can "see where (s)he is coming from" on the matter. Right now it is entirely opaque to me, for the reasons I laid out in the post you indicated you did not actually read.

Mellamella

ForstalDave wrote: »

Should we not target the cause of the bullying rather than stop a child needing a home being given a home with loving parents, we need to teach kids from an early age that being gay(or transsexual, bi etc) is no different than being straight. The simple fact is that there are so many children that need loving homes and they should not be denied the chance to have them

Yea they should target the cause of the bullying but surely at least 1 of you can see they have a point in saying its not ideal for a kid to grow up with gay parents, i know personally and truthfully i wouldnt like it, but that dont make me a homeaphobe, whether any of you like to admit it or not. i dont think ye should cut down tdablues opinion because its not the same as your opinion then slate them for not respecting yours. seems a bit contradictary

Mellamella

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Because I am addressing the points the user made and not the user themselves. And as such my reply would be identical no matter who it was targetted at. Which might be clearer if you bothered to read my entire post, which you indicated you did not.



I however can not, and the user in the OP has failed to adumbrate any real reasoning on the issue. Perhaps you can make an attempt at it so we too can "see where (s)he is coming from" on the matter. Right now it is entirely opaque to me, for the reasons I laid out in the post you indicated you did not actually read.

no need for the passive agressivness. And I was reffering to the moderators adressing them. And you cant see how they were on about bullying being an issue????

ForstalDave

Mellamella wrote: »

Yea they should target the cause of the bullying but surely at least 1 of you can see they have a point in saying its not ideal for a kid to grow up with gay parents, i know personally and truthfully i wouldnt like it, but that dont make me a homeaphobe, whether any of you like to admit it or not. i dont think ye should cut down tdablues opinion because its not the same as your opinion then slate them for not respecting yours. seems a bit contradictary

Iv only given my own opinion and not said anything about anyone elses as that was my first post in the thread, a child with loving parents can overcome bullying a child with none cant