Minimum years residency in order to get citizenship

Boskowski

kneemos wrote: »

You become Irish.

But here is the thing. I don't think you can anyway.

A huge (+90%) part of cultural identity is education and upbringing in my opinion. I grew up reading Werther in School and learning about Romantik, Charlemagne, Weimar and the sexual revolution. I was raised on Eintopf, Doener and Schnitzel. I didn't have a first communion and I couldn't give out about having to learn Irish. I never had a sausage for breakfast until I was 30.
All that is going to stay with me for life. Its ingrained, imprinted into me.

If I viewed getting an Irish passport as becoming Irish that would feel totally phony to me. Would I have to do all these things Irish whether I like them or not just to appear Irish?

Different story if you come here age 5 or even 10, but I came here age 30. I can never become Irish.

kneemos

Boskowski wrote: »

But here is the thing. I don't think you can anyway.

A huge (+90%) part of cultural identity is education and upbringing in my opinion. I grew up reading Werther in School and learning about Romantik, Charlemagne, Weimar and the sexual revolution. I was raised on Eintopf, Doener and Schnitzel. I didn't have a first communion and I couldn't give out about having to learn Irish. I never had a sausage for breakfast until I was 30.
All that is going to stay with me for life. Its ingrained, imprinted into me.

If I viewed getting an Irish passport as becoming Irish that would feel totally phony to me. Would I have to do all these things Irish whether I like them or not just to appear Irish?

Different story if you come here age 5 or even 10, but I came here age 30. I can never become Irish.

We don't all have to be the same.

RandomName2

Boskowski wrote: »

Mountain, I don't think having an Irish passport makes you Irish and I don't think it intends to do that. Regardless whether you feel strongly about your country or not, whatever sentimental feelings are there will probably always remain with your original country.

I think people read too much into this 'getting an Irish passport' thing. Its not like its a rite at full moon held by serious men with masks humming ancient chants and boom you're fully fledged sworn Irish if the nightingale clucks twice precisely at midnight. Its an administrative act, boring. You fill out a form, go through an application process and some clerk gives you the stamp. Next day you're still not Irish.

No, if you have Irish citizenship you are 100% Irish. Doesn't matter if you were born here, lived here for only five years, don't speak English or you're twelfth generation. Someone's Irish, they're Irish. Giving someone a passport is kind of a big deal.

Boskowski wrote: »

I can never become Irish.

Hate to break it to you, but if you've got an Irish passport you're Irish; naturalisation aside.

Boskowski

RandomName2 wrote: »

No, if you have Irish citizenship you are 100% Irish. Doesn't matter if you were born here, lived here for only five years, don't speak English or you're twelfth generation. Someone's Irish, they're Irish. Giving someone a passport is kind of a big deal.

I think we need to distinguish here between Irish by law and Irish by heart or whatever you wanna call it.

Lets say I have an Irish passport and you knew me to be German. I look a little bit German(ish) I have the accent and all. We're travelling together and someone asks me where I'm from and I say Im Irish. Wouldn't that sound totally odd to you?

Faith+1

RandomName2 wrote: »

No, if you have Irish citizenship you are 100% Irish. Doesn't matter if you were born here, lived here for only five years, don't speak English or you're twelfth generation. Someone's Irish, they're Irish. Giving someone a passport is kind of a big deal.



Hate to break it to you, but if you've got an Irish passport you're Irish; naturalisation aside.

And if a dog is born in a stable it's a horse?

kneemos

Faith+1 wrote: »

And if a dog is born in a stable it's a horse?

Not even an analagy.

Boskowski

RandomName2 wrote: »

Hate to break it to you, but if you've got an Irish passport you're Irish; naturalisation aside.

I don't have one.

And I would argue with you on that one.
Having an Irish passport means just that. I'm having an Irish passport.
It gives me rights and certain status but it does not make me Irish.

Boskowski

kneemos wrote: »

Not even an analagy.

It isn't but it perfectly underlines the point I'm trying to make myself.

A better one would be: And if a dog sleeps for 5 years in a stable it becomes a horse?

COYVB

5 years is fine. It's 5 years in most countries. I'm in Canada and it's 5 years here, although that's 5 years of permanent residency, or a 4 years of temporary residency and 3 years of permanent residency

AlmightyCushion

We should deport anyone who can't make a daycent cup of tae.

Carry

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yes, legal status.
But citizenship also means you are part of a community, and a community usually implies a common culture.

Again, ideals, principles. Not much room for that in Ireland right now. Me thinks that's a shame. Me supposed to be gone out of discussion. :pac:

Citizenship doesn't mean you are part of a community. At least not in Ireland. Common culture in a community usually means that you are born and (in)bred there.

Even with official citizenship you will always be an outsider, because your heritage is not interwoven with the local myths, grievances, begrudgeries and intermarriages. Hell, I used to know a guy who's family moved 400 years ago from Tipp to Clare and he was still called a blow-in! Talk about small-minded parochialism.

The only advantage as a European to get an Irish passport is to vote for the Dail. And, as someone else already said, I can do without it.

A passport is just a piece of paper, has nothing to do with identity which you have to forge for yourself.
My mother was from Lithuania, my father from Poland and I'm born in Germany, now living in Ireland for 17 years, the first couple of years up North, which is technically UK.

Believe me, with that heritage I can put you all to shame with your "Irish Pride" and "no foreigners, please". My identity is simply European, my home is where I work, pay my bills and mortgage and have friends.

I don't care what kind of passport I have, I consider the one I have as European, just happen to have one which is not Irish. So what?

But whoever wants to get Irish citizenship certainly shouldn't wait for ages (and pay nearly 1000 E for it). The main thing is that people intend to stay here. No-one else would bother to apply for an Irish passport anyway.

Jonny Blaze

mike65 wrote: »

Nationality is such a 20th century notion - see all the millions of dead that prove it.

Just stick with residency, and make sure that being one confers total rights.

Amen to that!

How people can attach such significance to whatever piece of rock their father happened to screw their mother on is totally beyond me.

I mean your identity and 'culture' is all a product of the people who make up the society you live in. It has nothing to do with the ground they're standing on.

Jonny Blaze

Carry wrote: »

I don't care what kind of passport I have, I consider the one I have as European, just happen to have one which is not Irish. So what?

But whoever wants to get Irish citizenship certainly shouldn't wait for ages (and pay nearly 1000 E for it). The main thing is that people intend to stay here. No-one else would bother to apply for an Irish passport anyway.

Ha ha!

I have a british passport but have lived here since I was 8 years old (now 30) and the only thing that has ever prompted me to even consider getting an Irish passport was when I was looking at a favourable American visa arrangement that was only open to the Irish so I could emigrate!

wandererz

Deleted User wrote: »

Currently the minimum number of years you have to be living in Ireland before getting citizenship is 5.

I think this number is from a different era when there wasn't anywhere close to the level of immigration into Ireland, legal or otherwise.

I know a couple of people who have obtained citizenship after 5 years who are solely doing it to get a passport and the rights that go with that. They have no interest in staying in Ireland permanently, they don't feel Irish, and they don't want to feel Irish.

It makes me feel sad and thinks we're giving citizenship away too cheaply. It's not such a human sacrifice for people in their 20's to more from a poorer country for a better paid job in a better economy only to have to live here 5 years. Especially given the cheaper air travel, Skype etc that exists in our modern world.

What are people's thoughts?

So what do you say to the persons from the foreign countries who designed or advised on such things as the network for the Luas Line? Or the systems in your universities/colleges/ Institutes of Technology? or the systems in your military or justice system? Or the systems in your other government departments? or the systems in your telecoms companies? or the systems in hundreds or thousands of other companies operating in this country?

What do you say to the guy who trains and educates and improves the knowledge of hundreds of Irish people a year?

It makes YOU feel sad ??

Feck me, i've done all of the above, i only applied for citizenship after 10+ years.

That's 10+ LONG years.

What have YOU done for YOUR country buddy??

Because people like me have done a heck of a lot more before even being citizens. It just doesn't get publicised does it?

Go on b*tching & moaning because it's not going to get you anywhere.

You actually need to DO more! ... a**hole

THAT's right. Stop moaning and go off and actually DO something.

Just take it one week at a time and ask yourself what you've done in the past week.

...now lets just see how many thanks this particular post gets.

In the meantime lets consider this: i've had to deal with stuff like a**holes on the Luas line calling my Irish wife a "Helga" i.e being a Nazi.

So... where do you stop?

riffmongous

Carry wrote: »

Citizenship doesn't mean you are part of a community. At least not in Ireland. Common culture in a community usually means that you are born and (in)bred there.

Even with official citizenship you will always be an outsider, because your heritage is not interwoven with the local myths, grievances, begrudgeries and intermarriages. Hell, I used to know a guy who's family moved 400 years ago from Tipp to Clare and he was still called a blow-in! Talk about small-minded parochialism.

The only advantage as a European to get an Irish passport is to vote for the Dail. And, as someone else already said, I can do without it.

A passport is just a piece of paper, has nothing to do with identity which you have to forge for yourself.
My mother was from Lithuania, my father from Poland and I'm born in Germany, now living in Ireland for 17 years, the first couple of years up North, which is technically UK.

Believe me, with that heritage I can put you all to shame with your "Irish Pride" and "no foreigners, please". My identity is simply European, my home is where I work, pay my bills and mortgage and have friends.

I don't care what kind of passport I have, I consider the one I have as European, just happen to have one which is not Irish. So what?

But whoever wants to get Irish citizenship certainly shouldn't wait for ages (and pay nearly 1000 E for it). The main thing is that people intend to stay here. No-one else would bother to apply for an Irish passport anyway.

When you say European, doesnt it really only apply to countries that are members of the EU or have free travel arrangements? I mean if had a Belorussian or Serbian passport it probably would be important.

On a general note, I do agree with you though, what annoys me about the long wait for citizenship is how excluded I am from civic life, I can't vote in the general elections, I can't join the police/army (no reserves in Austria). I pay my taxes and do volunteering and whatnot, and yet some guy who can hate the country and culture and have never worked a day in his life has more of a say than I do just because he was born here. It's maybe more of a naturalisation issue than citizenship, but those are the current rules and having to wait 6-10 years is pretty frustrating.

Also on that note I'll have to give up Irish citizenship to take Austrian when the time comes, but I am not too concerned as I am still more culturally Irish than all of the Irish 'irish-culture-hating' citizens that live in Ireland and the piece of paper doesn't change that

comongethappy

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I think a big one. It's another 5 years a person has to make up their mind if they're really staying. It's going past the honeymoon phase, the 7 year itch for example.

It's another 5 years of absorbing the country's culture.

I'm in my 11th year here.

Ive no idea what "culture" I've absorbed between year 6 & present, that wasn't absorbed in the first 5?

And what culture?
Is it the language no one speaks? Or the media dominated by US & UK content?
The music that few listen to?

What culture must a potential applicant absorb before deemed worthy?

kneemos

comongethappy wrote: »

I'm in my 11th year here.

Ive no idea what "culture" I've absorbed between year 6 & present, that wasn't absorbed in the first 5?

And what culture?
Is it the language no one speaks? Or the media dominated by US & UK content?
The music that few listen to?

What culture must a potential applicant absorb before deemed worthy?

Drink ten pints and throw chicken at windows culture.

comongethappy

kneemos wrote: »

Drink ten pints and throw chicken at windows culture.

I'm a lightweight, so I'm out.

Though the immigration bureau have breathalysers to ensure you meet the minimum level of inebriation!

Sunnyisland

Citizenship is what someone chooses to be and how he identifies. Historically no one much worried about this sort of thing. But today it means everything for politics and identity.

Maphisto

wretcheddomain wrote: »

30 years (even for Irish born) - if anyone leaves the country as an emigrant then the counter goes back down to zero. Stops all the young people emigrating.

There should be a permit system for the immigrants and auto-removal after a defined period.

Cost of citizenship: €1,500 per person, every 2 years.

I'd vote for you. So would my nutty neighbours.

Mountainsandh

Carry wrote: »

Citizenship doesn't mean you are part of a community. At least not in Ireland. Common culture in a community usually means that you are born and (in)bred there.

Even with official citizenship you will always be an outsider, because your heritage is not interwoven with the local myths, grievances, begrudgeries and intermarriages. Hell, I used to know a guy who's family moved 400 years ago from Tipp to Clare and he was still called a blow-in! Talk about small-minded parochialism.

The only advantage as a European to get an Irish passport is to vote for the Dail. And, as someone else already said, I can do without it.

A passport is just a piece of paper, has nothing to do with identity which you have to forge for yourself.

That sounds like bitterness to me.

You seem to have thought I was talking about the small community set up, like your local town, village, area.

I'm not. I'm simply looking at the nationwide perspective, not the smaller scale one. By being a citizen you are part of a community of people who experience the same weather events, natural events; whether you get on with your neighbour or not, you have access to the same shows/concerts; whether you have seamlessly blended into your local community or not, you have the same choice in the supermarket as millions of others on this island. Whether you agree or disagree, you are as exposed to the Irish language and the English language as others on this island. When 9/11 happened, you heard the same radio channels as others here, you saw the same news channels and had to listen to the same coverage.

This community we are talking about is bigger than your parish, it is the country population.

It's not a competition as to who's more Irish, or more immigrant, or of what mixed origins.

But like you said your view is "it's just a bit of paper", and my view is that it's not, or shouldn't be.

Gannicus

I have no problem with how long they have to be here to get citizenship or how many come here.

I do think however we should have something like the american system and have pre-clearance in foreign airports instead of having them land here and making it harder to send back the people trying to gain access here illegally. Catch them before they get here instead of chasing them and sending off planes full of illegal immigrants

kneemos

Mountainsandh wrote: »

That sounds like bitterness to me.

You seem to have thought I was talking about the small community set up, like your local town, village, area.

I'm not. I'm simply looking at the nationwide perspective, not the smaller scale one. By being a citizen you are part of a community of people who experience the same weather events, natural events; whether you get on with your neighbour or not, you have access to the same shows/concerts; whether you have seamlessly blended into your local community or not, you have the same choice in the supermarket as millions of others on this island. Whether you agree or disagree, you are as exposed to the Irish language and the English language as others on this island. When 9/11 happened, you heard the same radio channels as others here, you saw the same news channels and had to listen to the same coverage.

This community we are talking about is bigger than your parish, it is the country population.

It's not a competition as to who's more Irish, or more immigrant, or of what mixed origins.

But like you said your view is "it's just a bit of paper", and my view is that it's not, or shouldn't be.

So somebody who lives abroad for ten years is no longer Irish?

You seem to be of the view that everyone has to have the same shared experiences to be part of the community.I would say it's the varied experiences and ideas that make the community more interesting and progressive.

SWL

wandererz wrote: »

So what do you say to the persons from the foreign countries who designed or advised on such things as the network for the Luas Line? Or the systems in your universities/colleges/ Institutes of Technology? or the systems in your military or justice system? Or the systems in your other government departments? or the systems in your telecoms companies? or the systems in hundreds or thousands of other companies operating in this country?

What do you say to the guy who trains and educates and improves the knowledge of hundreds of Irish people a year?

It makes YOU feel sad ??

Feck me, i've done all of the above, i only applied for citizenship after 10+ years.

That's 10+ LONG years.

What have YOU done for YOUR country buddy??

Because people like me have done a heck of a lot more before even being citizens. It just doesn't get publicised does it?

Go on b*tching & moaning because it's not going to get you anywhere.

You actually need to DO more! ... a**hole

THAT's right. Stop moaning and go off and actually DO something.

Just take it one week at a time and ask yourself what you've done in the past week.

...now lets just see how many thanks this particular post gets.

In the meantime lets consider this: i've had to deal with stuff like a**holes on the Luas line calling my Irish wife a "Helga" i.e being a Nazi.

So... where do you stop?

I don't believe any of your post, in all my time in Ireland I have never encountered negative open hostillity, as for your wife being called a “helga" most Irish people won't know what that is, so it’s either BS or it wasn't an Irish person., also your incorrect assumption that if an Irish person questions any aspect of immigration they haven't done anything for their Country is frankly idiotic

Essentially what you have listed is your responsibilities as an employee, you carry out a day’s work and are well remunerated for it, it’s not as if you are expected to run the Country (as you seem to view it) and not get the appropriate remuneration until you become a citizen. you do a job, you are paid for that work, you and a lot of recent immigrants think Ireland will shut down if they leave, its won't you will be replaced by someone else, Irish or otherwise, so stop acting like you were kidnapped and brought to this Country against your will.

I have been coming to Ireland for over 30 years, lived here for approx. 11 and still come over and back for work and other reasons, one of my parents is Irish so I can get a passport, but I choose not to, however 5 years to too short a time frame, it should be Ten.

RandomName2

Faith+1 wrote: »

And if a dog is born in a stable it's a horse?

Well, biologically no, but jus soli could be made law: the dog could legally be a horse, or have dual dog-horseness. To all intents and purposes he could be a horse, and take part in horse related activities (however ill judged that may prove).

SWL

Carry wrote: »

Citizenship doesn't mean you are part of a community. At least not in Ireland. Common culture in a community usually means that you are born and (in)bred there.

Even with official citizenship you will always be an outsider, because your heritage is not interwoven with the local myths, grievances, begrudgeries and intermarriages. Hell, I used to know a guy who's family moved 400 years ago from Tipp to Clare and he was still called a blow-in! Talk about small-minded parochialism.

The only advantage as a European to get an Irish passport is to vote for the Dail. And, as someone else already said, I can do without it.

A passport is just a piece of paper, has nothing to do with identity which you have to forge for yourself.
My mother was from Lithuania, my father from Poland and I'm born in Germany, now living in Ireland for 17 years, the first couple of years up North, which is technically UK.

Believe me, with that heritage I can put you all to shame with your "Irish Pride" and "no foreigners, please". My identity is simply European, my home is where I work, pay my bills and mortgage and have friends.

I don't care what kind of passport I have, I consider the one I have as European, just happen to have one which is not Irish. So what?

But whoever wants to get Irish citizenship certainly shouldn't wait for ages (and pay nearly 1000 E for it). The main thing is that people intend to stay here. No-one else would bother to apply for an Irish passport anyway.[/QUOTE]

Your post is nonsense especially the bold part. The present rules are you wait and you pay for the extra administration, if you don't like it don't apply for one, your post is very condescending to Ireland and certainly full of contradiction, you make fun of "Irish pride" yet proudly boast of your own heritage, then dismiss that heritage to rather oddly declare yourself as European, I am assuming you had a work visa to work on the Island pre EU membership, remember if it wasn't for EU membership the generosity of the Irish and UK people to open the marketplace a lot of your fellow Country men and women would be very very happy to avail of "piece of paper" to work and live here, a Country that has been very good to them.

comongethappy

SWL wrote: »

5 years to too short a time frame, it should be Ten.

Why though?

What measure of merit is improved by 10 years of residence vs 5 years?

Annasopra

Standman wrote: »

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

What if someone says billions of Polish would come over. Did that happen? No.

RandomName2

comongethappy wrote: »

Why though?

What measure of merit is improved by 10 years of residence vs 5 years?

It could be worth someone's time working here a couple of years in order to be resident long enough to obtain citizenship.

Alternatively... and here's something I'm curious about.... does it matter if you are here illegally? Suppose some guy is here on a one year student visa from Australia, and instead of going home after the visa expires, stays and work (under the counter). After 4 years could he become Irish?

Not that I'm really a fan of having a really long residence to merit citizenship - it doesn't really show that you are, or are not, integrated. You might be integrated after two years and a boon to the country, or still totally unintegrated after a decade, and contribute little.

wretcheddomain

Maphisto wrote: »

I'd vote for you. So would my nutty neighbours.

No harm injecting some humour into an ordinarily dry citizenship thread.

Xeyn

SWL wrote: »

a lot of recent immigrants think Ireland will shut down if they leave, its won't you will be replaced by someone else, Irish or otherwise, so stop acting like you were kidnapped and brought to this Country against your will.

Actually the already failing health service would without a shadow of a doubt fail if the foreigners that prop it up leave. Many of the doctors recently were brought over under false pretenses by the HSE and IMC and word has spread so recruiting is much harder. They may not have been kidnapped etc but they have been treated like dirt since they got here and many are leaving (along with many Irish)

Carry

SWL wrote: »

Your post is nonsense especially the bold part. The present rules are you wait and you pay for the extra administration, if you don't like it don't apply for one, your post is very condescending to Ireland and certainly full of contradiction, you make fun of "Irish pride" yet proudly boast of your own heritage, then dismiss that heritage to rather oddly declare yourself as European, I am assuming you had a work visa to work on the Island pre EU membership, remember if it wasn't for EU membership the generosity of the Irish and UK people to open the marketplace a lot of your fellow Country men and women would be very very happy to avail of "piece of paper" to work and live here, a Country that has been very good to them.

You gave a good example of "condescending".
You assume I came with a work visa and me and my "fellow country people" should be grateful?

Assume away. Just shows that you are full of prejudices.
But let me tell you this.
As a European (with a German passport) I didn't need a work visa. Besides Ireland is a bit longer in the EU than the time I live here. As a true blood Irishman (or -woman) you should know the history of your country.

I didn't come to Ireland for work but to live here. I brought my work with me get still payed from Germany but spend all my income in Ireland including all the taxes. And my work includes promoting tourism in Ireland.

Now who should be grateful? If you so wish talking about gratefulness, which wouldn't be my idea of a mature discourse.

Apart from that, reading your and many others' comments I think that it would do a world of good to the likes of you to be exposed to a bit more multiculturalism and depart from your insular thinking.

SWL

Carry wrote: »

You gave a good example of "condescending".
You assume I came with a work visa and me and my "fellow country people" should be grateful?

Assume away. Just shows that you are full of prejudices.
But let me tell you this.
As a European (with a German passport) I didn't need a work visa. Besides Ireland is a bit longer in the EU than the time I live here. As a true blood Irishman (or -woman) you should know the history of your country.

I didn't come to Ireland for work but to live here. I brought my work with me get still payed from Germany but spend all my income in Ireland including all the taxes. And my work includes promoting tourism in Ireland.

Now who should be grateful? If you so wish talking about gratefulness, which wouldn't be my idea of a mature discourse.

Apart from that, reading your and many others' comments I think that it would do a world of good to the likes of you to be exposed to a bit more multiculturalism and depart from your insular thinking.

Clearly reading is not your strong point, I have already stated I am not Irish; I am/was an immigrant. You describe yourself as European and proudly state that passports are irrelevant that you don’t care what nationality is on the cover, and why would anyone care, yet as pointed out you could NOT have lived in Ireland without a German passport you would require a visa, nice position for you to be in, clearly not the case for others, the rest of your post only reinforces my previous opinion for you.

wandererz

wandererz wrote: »

So what do you say to the persons from the foreign countries who designed or advised on such things as the network for the Luas Line? Or the systems in your universities/colleges/ Institutes of Technology? or the systems in your military or justice system? Or the systems in your other government departments? or the systems in your telecoms companies? or the systems in hundreds or thousands of other companies operating in this country?

What do you say to the guy who trains and educates and improves the knowledge of hundreds of Irish people a year?

It makes YOU feel sad ??

Feck me, i've done all of the above, i only applied for citizenship after 10+ years.

That's 10+ LONG years.

What have YOU done for YOUR country buddy??

Because people like me have done a heck of a lot more before even being citizens. It just doesn't get publicised does it?

Go on b*tching & moaning because it's not going to get you anywhere.

You actually need to DO more! ... a**hole

THAT's right. Stop moaning and go off and actually DO something.

Just take it one week at a time and ask yourself what you've done in the past week.

...now lets just see how many thanks this particular post gets.

In the meantime lets consider this: i've had to deal with stuff like a**holes on the Luas line calling my Irish wife a "Helga" i.e being a Nazi.

So... where do you stop?

The tone of your post is so unbelievably insulting, condescending, bitter (and slightly hard to believe) that I was tempted to ignore it as BS.

You seem to think I'm railing against "foreigners" and wanting to kick "them" all out of the country. My OP is not anti-immigrant. All I'm doing is asking the question, and giving my opinion, which I think if you actually read the OP, is actually rather luke warm.

All I'm doing is stimulating a discussion, and you give me bitter, insulting and condescending abuse like that? You know nothing about me, you seem to assume I've never done anything for my country (I prefer not to blow my own trumpet, it's how I am as a person. Besides, I could easily come up with some list of achievements and contributions to society but since we're online it would be impossible to prove so what's the point?)

Mountainsandh

So somebody who lives abroad for ten years is no longer Irish?

If that person lived in a single country for 10 years, and they chose to, well then yes, they might be more of the other country than Irish, if you see what I mean. Have you ever come across someone who just came back from say, the U.S., after 10 years there ? I have, and got the vibe they were more American than Irish at that stage. (For someone world hopping it might be different)
There is an element of choice.
As I mentioned above, I am here 17 years but still feel French, albeit with a good dose of Irishness too. So far I have chosen not to become an Irish citizen, although I would possibly consider double nationality some time. Everyone is different. But I can positively say that after 5 years here there isn't a hope in hell I could have considered myself an Irish citizen.

You seem to be of the view that everyone has to have the same shared experiences to be part of the community.I would say it's the varied experiences and ideas that make the community more interesting and progressive.

No. You have misunderstood, deliberately or not.
The experiences people of a community share do not exclude other experiences.
You don't just experience what the others do and that's that.
You have some shared experiences, knowledge, understanding, etc... but you also have your own.

To the other poster who reckoned another 5 years in the country wouldn't make a difference, it's not my opinion.
Another 5 years means other chances to share, and acquire knowledge and understanding of the community you are in.

If a child is raised here for 5 years but then moves to Canada, chances are he/she will be very Canadian by age 10.
We are as influenced as children by our surroundings, only some adults can change a lot and others, less.

Again I am not talking about just music, language, and pints.

I'm not a big fan of marketing and giving a monetary value to some things that in my opinion should remain ideologies or principles (like rights, citizenship...), and to me handing out citizenships in a short time frame is pretty much selling yourself short, and selling something that should not be sold.

Mountainsandh

Deleted User wrote: »

The tone of your post is so unbelievably insulting, condescending, bitter (and slightly hard to believe) that I was tempted to ignore it as BS.

Shocking that some people actually thanked the post ! :eek:

323

marmurr1916 wrote: »

No it doesn't. It's a legal status that gives you the rights and responsibilities that go with citizenship.

Just look at all the Unionists from NI, British in their cultural identity, who get Irish passports (which requires Irish citizenship to obtain) so they can qualify for tuition-free education at universities in Scotland.

Total different argument, to do with Ireland's claim on the north, whereby anyone born in the island of Ireland can apply for citizenship.

Sunglasses Ron

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What if someone says billions of Polish would come over. Did that happen? No.

Well actually, it sort of did.

The government of the day, along with that of the UK, ruled out any sort of quota/ work permit system because they estimated the annual figure would be in the four figures.

It wasn't, it was in the six figures by the end, and it was a significant push factor towards the economic disaster we got ourselves into.

But shure, ya can't be sayin that, can you :rolleyes:

Carry

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Well actually, it sort of did.

The government of the day, along with that of the UK, ruled out any sort of quota/ work permit system because they estimated the annual figure would be in the four figures.

It wasn't, it was in the six figures by the end, and it was a significant push factor towards the economic disaster we got ourselves into.

But shure, ya can't be sayin that, can you :rolleyes:

How so?

Sunglasses Ron

Carry wrote: »

How so?

Artificially inflated a property boom would be the primary one. How do you think we got lumbered with ghost estates?

Carry

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Artificially inflated a property boom would be the primary one. How do you think we got lumbered with ghost estates?

I don't have the time right now to explain some economics regarding the Irish property bubble.
But I found you a wiki-link to educate yourself at least superficially: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble#Contributing_factors

Or you can google for yourself or browse the adequate forum on boards.

Have fun!

Sunglasses Ron

Carry wrote: »

I don't have the time right now to explain some economics regarding the Irish property bubble.
But I found you a wiki-link to educate yourself at least superficially: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble#Contributing_factors

Or you can google for yourself or browse the adequate forum on boards.

Have fun!

It takes a certain level of ignorance to claim that uncontrolled EU migration did not inspire a generation of have a go landlords to buy up new properties to let to what they believed would be an unending supply of migrant workers.

It's covered in the first post here (the original IT article is pay- only)

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/211485-dan-obrien-2004-mass-immigration-policies-were-mistake.html

"Building houses to house the people building the houses.
what could possibly go wrong?"

SeanW

Standman wrote: »

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

Well, now that you mention it:

lefty view wrote:

We should welcome them all with the Cead Mile Failte, even those that are criminals, vagrants or fundamentalists.

Disagree? Well, that's because you're a horrible evil xenophobic racist.

Mountainsandh

Carry wrote: »

I don't have the time right now to explain some economics regarding the Irish property bubble.
But I found you a wiki-link to educate yourself at least superficially: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble#Contributing_factors

Or you can google for yourself or browse the adequate forum on boards.

Have fun!

How arrogant. It is pretty obvious to all that an influx of young families into Ireland would have an effect on the property market. Just like a native baby boom would.

Annasopra

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Well actually, it sort of did.

The government of the day, along with that of the UK, ruled out any sort of quota/ work permit system because they estimated the annual figure would be in the four figures.

It wasn't, it was in the six figures by the end, and it was a significant push factor towards the economic disaster we got ourselves into.

But shure, ya can't be sayin that, can you :rolleyes:

Billions of Polish emigrated here?

Grayson

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

It takes a certain level of ignorance to claim that uncontrolled EU migration did not inspire a generation of have a go landlords to buy up new properties to let to what they believed would be an unending supply of migrant workers.

It's covered in the first post here (the original IT article is pay- only)

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/211485-dan-obrien-2004-mass-immigration-policies-were-mistake.html

"Building houses to house the people building the houses.
what could possibly go wrong?"

Except the housing boom started before the immigration. In the later stages it might have had some affect, but at that point Ireland had already gotten into it's head that it could make itself rich selling houses to itself.

Sunglasses Ron

Grayson wrote: »

Except the housing boom started before the immigration. In the later stages it might have had some affect, but at that point Ireland had already gotten into it's head that it could make itself rich selling houses to itself.

Complete and utter nonsense.

How much did house prices go up between 2002 and 2007?

ScumLord

5 years is a long time. That's enough time to get a secure job, do a college course, get married, have kids, friends and have a new extended family.

We don't want to end up driving good people away either.

crockholm

I'm Irish and I live in Sweden.Wife is Swedish,son is Swedish and cleetus the Foetus is Swedish.I love the country,I was waving minature Swedish flags on the 6th of june and will be singing about small frogs next week.

I will never take a Swedish passport however.

Not out of disrespect to the country,but rather that I am an Irishman and for better or worse that is how I will be until there is a bible under my chin.

Sometimes (though not Always) I feel that some seek out the Irish passport just to avoid deportation,and is just a means for selfish gain rather that an altruistic love of the country and her people and culture

Grayson

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense.

How much did house prices go up between 2002 and 2007?

How much did they go up between 1995 and 2000?

http://www.statusireland.com/data/charts/Irish-House-Price-Index-Since-1996.jpg

In 2000 we were halfway through the "Tiger".

btw, do you really have to be so insulting?