Water meter protests

househero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

WTF has that to do with water meter protests? Have Hugo and Daphne had their meter installed yet?

I think he's suggesting we should protest against water meters and plop radio

AlanS181824

Nothing I can do about it now.

This came through my letterbox today...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ritcg6wwdoyke6t/image.jpg

Yay(!)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/surge-in-water-meters-as-30000-put-in-every-month-30353785.html

cc87

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Nothing I can do about it now.

This came through my letterbox today...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ritcg6wwdoyke6t/image.jpg

Yay(!)

Got that about three months ago, still no sign of it

Wompa1

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I think you're going down a rabbithole of needless pedantry here.

Taxation of car ownership very much follows a polluter pays model these days. The more polluting your car's engine is, the more Motor Tax you pay. The more fuel you burn, the more Carbon Tax you pay.

You may own a car that pre-dates the introduction of that system, but that doesn't alter the fact that such as system now exists.

It's a tax which also forced many to consider buying newer cars than they may have wanted. I had a 2006 car before I left the country and was paying about 900 a year in tax for it. Maybe now that it's a few years on and a 2008 is more affordable, it's not so bad. But it was a real kick in the t1ts years ago

DoesNotCompute

househero wrote: »

BUT our (income) tax DID pay for water before. They SHOULD lower income tax by €200 per person to make up for the EXTRA tax the gov will be collecting.

How are people not getting this?

Income tax has never fully paid for the water supply. There's a shortfall, which water charges are being brought in to make up for. If they brought in water charges and then reduced income tax there would STILL be a shortfall.

No Pants

pconn062 wrote: »

Before engaging with this particular poster can I suggest checking out their post history, especially the Marty in the Morning thread on the radio forum. They have a habit of posting things like this designed to encourage "debate" with the other posters. :rolleyes:

Jaysis, I thought you were referring about me for a minute. I would shoot Marty off into space and I wouldn't have a plan on bringing him back.

Flex

Banjo String wrote: »

30, 000 people live in Leitrim (give or take), yet the average Dublin homeowners lpt will be many times higher than the average Leitrim homeowners. ( they're being subsidised too )

This is not a unique situation, far from it.

Also, AFAIK, the rates of income tax, vat, national insurance, motor tax and so on and so forth are the same in the north as they are in England, Scotland and Wales. (so they are not getting a free ride)

Comparing domestic rates to our LPT is laughable btw.

And if Leitrim County Council claimed they could provide their services to Leitrim to a standard on par or ahead of Dublins while charging lower LPT rates than those in Dublin due to them being shrewd, cost effective, economically competent, good governors or whatever compared to the Dublin councils, Id say Leitrim County Council were full of ****.

I thought one of the things about SF was they were seen as honest or genuine, yet theyre being deceitful in such an obvious way. Instead of people calling them out on they fall over themselves to excuse it

hatrickpatrick

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

How are people not getting this?

Income tax has never fully paid for the water supply. There's a shortfall, which water charges are being brought in to make up for. If they brought in water charges and then reduced income tax there would STILL be a shortfall.

And the point is, there are other ways to make up the shortfall apart from taking more money out of the economy. Like, y'know, not paying quango execs €200k and not paying €86m to consultants. :rolleyes:

mickydoomsux

A relative of mine who works for Irish Water had a gun pulled on him in the ****hole prison colony that is Carlow Town this week.

The police were called and had to spend the entire rest of the week making sure that people that were doing an actual job weren't being threatened. **** this country, **** the people of Carlow Town and their "entitlement". Pull every penny of state benefits that is being paid into that kip of an area back and watch it eat itself.

Utter garbage people who wonder why their area is avoided by normal humans.

Bob24

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And the point is, there are other ways to make up the shortfall apart from taking more money out of the economy. Like, y'know, not paying quango execs €200k and not paying €86m to consultants. :rolleyes:

What ways do you suggest?

hatrickpatrick

Bob24 wrote: »

What ways do you suggest?

How many water bills will have to be paid just for Irish Water to break even, taking into account the inflated salaries and €86m consultancy spree? Cutting this kind of crap out of the Irish government and its quangos is where I'd suggest we start.

PLUG71

No Pants wrote: »

No, you're misrepresenting what I stated. I'm not asking to be exempt from tax. The car is taxed. I'm asking to be taxed based on my use. Right now I'm paying €280 a quarter for someone that only gets used at the weekends. If my neighbour drove an identical car 300km a day, seven days a week he'd pay the exactly same rate of motor tax. In no way does that follow the polluter pays principle that often gets trotted out when the government requires additional cash.

I don't understand, what exactly is the problem with what I'm suggesting?

We all know the motor tax system in this country is a joke!

They road tax should be added to the cost of the fuel we use thus making it a fairer system.

Pay as you drive basically.

PeadarCo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How many water bills will have to be paid just for Irish Water to break even, taking into account the inflated salaries and €86m consultancy spree? Cutting this kind of crap out of the Irish government and its quangos is where I'd suggest we start.

Any reason 86 million is too much or is just a of case that all consultants are bad. Apparently most of the money went towards setting up new IT systems related to Irish Water judging from the thread on boards when the 86 million was raised as an issue.

Anyone with any experience of IT systems and semi states and the public sector would be aware that things generally aren't joined up. Look at the revenue and social welfare systems being unable to talk to each other, government paying for windows XP support etc.Now apply that across the 34 different councils from whom Irish water is taking over from.

Even when it comes to implementing new IT systems the government isn't great. Look at the PPARS mess. I'd be worried if the government wasn't looking for external help setting up Irish Water.

86 million isn't that much in the context of an organisation that should be handling billions in terms of billing and infrastructure projects in years to come.

Bob24

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How many water bills will have to be paid just for Irish Water to break even, taking into account the inflated salaries and €86m consultancy spree? Cutting this kind of crap out of the Irish government and its quangos is where I'd suggest we start.

Irish Water will raise 500 million euros on the first year from water bills. Collecting 86 millions will take about 2 months. But honestly it is not the point and literally is a drop of water ... The investments that are required in the water system are more counted in billions of euros (Irish Water's investment plan for the next 3 years is over 1.5 billions I believe) ... This deserves much more public scrutiny!

Also while indeed the government is probably not the best at setting up state of the art IT systems and operations, 86 millions to set up a water utility for a whole country probably isn't a very expensive bill.

SaveOurLyric

pconn062 wrote: »

Before engaging with this particular poster can I suggest checking out their post history, especially the Marty in the Morning thread on the radio forum. They have a habit of posting things like this designed to encourage "debate" with the other posters. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
Geez man, thanks. Way to help out an honest troll.

emo72

PeadarCo wrote: »

Any reason 86 million is too much or is just a of case that all consultants are bad. Apparently most of the money went towards setting up new IT systems related to Irish Water judging from the thread on boards when the 86 million was raised as an issue.

Anyone with any experience of IT systems and semi states and the public sector would be aware that things generally aren't joined up. Look at the revenue and social welfare systems being unable to talk to each other, government paying for windows XP support etc.Now apply that across the 34 different councils from whom Irish water is taking over from.

Even when it comes to implementing new IT systems the government isn't great. Look at the PPARS mess. I'd be worried if the government wasn't looking for external help setting up Irish Water.

86 million isn't that much in the context of an organisation that should be handling billions in terms of billing and infrastructure projects in years to come.

86 million is nothing when you say it real quick. why are people even complaining:pac:

shedweller

Alf. A. Male wrote: »

Well-intentioned but futile. Trying to combat any move like this, bin charges, water charges etc. is pointless at the stage when the bin lorry is outside or they're installing a meter, the horse has bolted. In general, Irish people need to become more informed, active, engaged and organised about protesting, not shouting at a workman when it's too late.

I do recall the general population saying these very people had tin foil hats on or words to that effect!!
But i do agree with you on the being more informed and organised bit. By jaysus we need to seriously up our game there. Sleepy idiots.
The horse has indeed bolted and denis o brien owns it. We're paying him now.

Tony EH

I'll say it again, Ireland is a nation of idiots.

We sleep walk, or a sleep walked, into things that the general public find objectionable all the time.

Unfortunately, once these privatisation projects get set in stone, it's waaaay too late to object, let alone do anything about it.

Privatising waste management and its subsequent disaster should have been a wake up call, but people just rolled over.

People are in for some big shocks in the near future.

Uriel.

Tony EH wrote: »

I'll say it again, Ireland is a nation of idiots.

We sleep walk, or a sleep walked, into things that the general public find objectionable all the time.

Unfortunately, once these privatisation projects get set in stone, it's waaaay too late to object, let alone do anything about it.

Privatising waste management and its subsequent disaster should have been a wake up call, but people just rolled over.

People are in for some big shocks in the near future.

In what way was the privitisation of waste management a disaster?

Tony EH

Oh please.

Even Hogan was giving out about it a few weeks ago.

:pac:

PeadarCo

emo72 wrote: »

86 million is nothing when you say it real quick. why are people even complaining:pac:

86 million in the context of Irish Water future spending isn't a whole lot. Given the money appears to be going on implementing a decent IT system and the government history of messing up in this area. All that information from the water metres needs to be collated somewhere.

Should it be scrutinised yes. The point I was making was that just because it was spend on consultants doesn't mean it was a waste especially as I've said outside help is something the government needs in this area.

Over the next couple of years if Irish Water does what it supposed to do it will be spending billions. Where that money goes should be of far more interest. Will it cheaper and more effective than what the individual councils currently do?

Uriel.

Tony EH wrote: »

Oh please.

Even Hogan was giving out about it a few weeks ago.

:pac:

You'll have no problem finding evidence of to back up claims of this disaster so?

Tony EH

Uriel. wrote: »

You'll have no problem finding evidence of to back up claims of this disaster so?

I'm not going to do your research for you.

There's plenty of articles outlining the nonsense people have had to go through since waste collection was privatised.

There are even threads about it on Boards.

Uriel.

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm not going to do your research for you.

There's plenty of articles outlining the nonsense people have had to go through since waste collection was privatised.

There are even threads about it on Boards.

so that's a no then, as suspected. You state a "fact", you back it up, such is the general mantra 'round these parts.

Tony EH

If you're interested you'll be able to find it with ease. The entire internet backs it up

Little CuChulainn

Privatisation of the bin service seems to have gone pretty well. You could have picked a better example such as Eircom or the original M50 toll bridge. Privatisation goes wrong when the government gives too much free reign to the company. Eircom is a prime example. The government stupidly sold the network as well as the operator. That meant they had no control over where phone lines were placed. The new owner prioritised, and still does, profitable areas and so people in rural areas were not given any infrastructure upgrades. Irish Water will be much more scrutinised as far as i can see.

end of the road

privatization isn't done to benefit the public, its made out that it will so it will get public support but give it a while and well you know the rest

Uriel.

end of the road wrote: »

privatization isn't done to benefit the public, its made out that it will so it will get public support but give it a while and well you know the rest

Very true. And Lenin will rise again too.

Uriel.

Tony EH wrote: »

If you're interested you'll be able to find it with ease. The entire internet backs it up

for sure, plenty of waste(rs) on the internet alright.