Opting out of School Prayer

kylith

daveohdave wrote: »

The other children in the class aren't part of the equation. Why would you even bring them up?

It's a simple question of a parent consulting their child. I can't understand why people find this so difficult to understand, or why they need to be so aggressive about the whole thing. Is it because you think I'm a catholic trying to defend church prayer?

Of course the other children are part of the equation. If you want this child to be asked whether she wants to take part in religious activities such as prayer then surely, in the interest of fairness, every other child should also be asked if they wish to take part in prayers. If you want one parent to consult their child then surely you would encourage every parent to consult their children. Why should one be consulted but not the others?

I don't give toss what religion you are or are not.

magicbastarder

daveohdave wrote: »

The other children in the class aren't part of the equation. Why would you even bring them up?

because you're the one concerned with the concept of treating kids differently.

if you want them to all be treated the same, catholic parents should be also consulting their young children about which major belief system they would like to align themselves with.

endacl

daveohdave wrote: »

How am I demonising them exactly? I asked a simple question: Has she been consulted about it? If she has and she's happy, well and good; if she hasn't, she should. Is that too complicated for you to understand, or do you simply deem 7 year olds too stupid or unimportant to consult on things that affect their lives?

At 7, the parents make the big decisions. Birthday party venues and suchlike? Kid gets a vote.

vitani

kylith wrote: »

Would you both be of the opinion that all the other children in the class should be similarly polled about whether or not they wish to partake in prayers and religion classes?

In an ideal world, all children would be consulted before a decision like that is made for them.

However, in the OP's situation, the daughter might be happy to just go along with chanting a few words twice a day even if the words don't mean anything to her. Better that than her sitting there every day feeling miserable or self-conscious - most children would probably be happy enough to not take part, but if a child is especially sensitive about being 'different', then the lesser of two evils might be to let her continue on as she's doing.

kylith

vitani wrote: »

In an ideal world, all children would be consulted before a decision like that is made for them.

However, in the OP's situation, the daughter might be happy to just go along with chanting a few words twice a day even if the words don't mean anything to her. Better that than her sitting there every day feeling miserable or self-conscious - most children would probably be happy enough to not take part, but if a child is especially sensitive about being 'different', then the lesser of two evils might be to let her continue on as she's doing.

But the OP is apparently unhappy with his daughter being taught to declare herself a sinner and beg for forgiveness in a religion that she is not part of.

I do find myself wondering how many Christian parents would be happy for their kids to join in Muslim prayers since it's only 'chanting a few words'.

vitani

kylith wrote: »

But the OP is apparently unhappy with his daughter being taught to declare herself a sinner and beg for forgiveness in a religion that she is not part of.

I do find myself wondering how many Christian parents would be happy for their kids to join in Muslim prayers since it's only 'chanting a few words'.

A quick google shows the morning prayer in schools is:

Father in heaven, you love me,
You're with me night and day,
I want you to love you always,
In all I do and say,
I'll try to please you, Father,
Bless me through the day. Amen.

So, nothing heavy-handed about sinning or asking forgiveness. While it's trite and saccharine, it's hardly likely to inflict much fear IMO.

And you'd have to ask one of them. My own daughter isn't baptised and if she ends up having to go to a Catholic school, with the exception of making the Sacraments, I'll be guided by her as to what level of participation she wants. Same if she was to end up in a Church of Ireland or Muslim school.

Pherekydes

daveohdave wrote: »

The other children in the class aren't part of the equation. Why would you even bring them up?

You brought up the word 'different' first. Different to whom?

TwoShedsJackson

vitani wrote: »

A quick google shows the morning prayer in schools is:

Father in heaven, you love me,
You're with me night and day,
I want you to love you always,
In all I do and say,
I'll try to please you, Father,
Bless me through the day. Amen.

So, nothing heavy-handed about sinning or asking forgiveness. While it's trite and saccharine, it's hardly likely to inflict much fear IMO.

Tone of that still goes back to the 'I'm unworthy, please don't smite me Lord' thing.

vitani

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Tone of that still goes back to the 'I'm unworthy, please don't smite me Lord' thing.

I don't disagree, but if the OP's daughter would be more comfortable saying the prayer with the rest of the class, then it's a relatively harmless, kid-friendly prayer that just goes on about God's love and being good. At this stage, the kids in the class probably don't even listen to the words as they say it.

I'm not trying to downplay how awful it would be to force someone to pray if they didn't want to - I was forced to go to Mass every Sunday for years, and it was horrible - but in this case, I would be guided by what she feels as she's the one who has to live with the consequences in school.

kylith

vitani wrote: »

A quick google shows the morning prayer in schools is:

Father in heaven, you love me,
You're with me night and day,
I want you to love you always,
In all I do and say,
I'll try to please you, Father,
Bless me through the day. Amen.

So, nothing heavy-handed about sinning or asking forgiveness. While it's trite and saccharine, it's hardly likely to inflict much fear IMO.

You don't find the bit in bold there a bit creepy? "I want to please you, invisible sky man"? If you don't opt her out of that prayer then she won't be opted out of the Hail Mary 'pray for us sinners', or the Our Father 'thy will be done...forgive us our trespasses...'.

It's about setting precedent from the outset. If she joins in the prayers so she's not different then she'll have to be in the religion class so she's not different. Then she'll need to be baptised so she can make her communion and confirmation so she's not different. Make a stand on the little things now and you won't have to make it on the big things later.

magicbastarder

sure if it was a prayer to cthulu or the great rape god of tramalamaland, and all other kids were doing it, what harm?

shruikan2553

robindch wrote: »

It's a gesture of submission. Same as the hands-together gesture used when praying which I believe derives from having one's wrists bound together.

That is what I assumed but thought maybe there is an actual reason that went beyond we are useless and god is great.

Kneeling - the most reverent gesture we take during mass. This shows our obedience to God and that we do not find ourselves as equals with God.

Supposedly Catholics only kneel for Christ and stand for other things to show that he is higher up in the chain than others.

https://sites.google.com/a/faithfulwonderings.com/www/home/why-we-kneel-stand-sit-during-mass

Although this link assumes that the people actually know what they are doing at mass instead of the Irish Catholic style of mass where you follow the rest of the crowd.

Hotblack Desiato

if you weren't following the crowd you wouldn't be at mass in the first place. Hah!

Hotblack Desiato

endacl wrote: »

At 7, the parents make the big decisions. Birthday party venues and suchlike? Kid gets a vote.

Exactly, lots of ridiculous posts on this thread.
Catholic parents (whether devout or cultural or whatever) don't consult their kids.
Parents of any other religion don't either.
But for non-believers it's always 'I agreed to baptise the kids because of the in-laws', 'I don't want to force a belief on my kids [IRONY ALERT]', 'I don't want him/her to feel left out' etc. etc. as excuses to go along with the cultural majority (most of whom ironically believe in little or nothing except keeping their heads down.)

Why is it always non-believers who are made to conform? Are there any threads in t'udder forum going 'I agreed not to baptise for the sake of my husband/wife/inlaws'..?

Why are the catholic rituals not seen as forcing belief on kids, but rejecting them is seen as forcing a belief on kids? You couldn't make better nonsense than that up.

We need to stop kowtowing to this stuff, seriously.

keane2097

Man alive those Game of Thrones spoiling posts were bizarrely unnecessary and will probably drive a lot of people demented if they see them.

robindch

shruikan2553 wrote: »

That is what I assumed but thought maybe there is an actual reason that went beyond we are useless and god is great.

Not so far as I'm aware - that's the central message of christianity.

Turtwig

keane2097 wrote: »

Man alive those Game of Thrones spoiling posts were bizarrely unnecessary and will probably drive a lot of people demented if they see them.

Yep.

Feeling very peeved over it right now. :mad:

Chattastrophe!

I used to do the odd day of substitute teaching in local primary schools to make a bit of money when I was in college.

I found the prayers thing so weird, looking at it from a grown-up's perspective. I'd never ask them to do it, but it would come to lunchtime or hometime or whatever, and one of the kids would remind me that they had to say their prayers. I honestly didn't know the words, so I'd just reply, "If any of you want to pray, go for it", and every child in the class would stand up and hold their hands together and recite whatever prayer it was, in unison. ... "And in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen!"

It was just so weird watching them. Like it's cute watching a class full of small kids doing Incey Wincey Spider together with all the actions. Not so cute watching them swear allegiance to this religion that they're too young to understand.

I think it would be a little bit difficult for a child to opt out in these circumstances, when all of their friends have such blind faith. If I found it weird as a "teacher" looking at them, it would be even weirder as a child, if your teacher and all your friends believed in this faith but your family didn't.

This is why I won't be sending my son to a religious school, but it's annoying that it's the exception rather than the rule in this country.

ShooterSF

vitani wrote: »

A quick google shows the morning prayer in schools is:

Father in heaven, you love me,
You're with me night and day,
I want you to love you always,
In all I do and say,
I'll try to please you, Father,
Bless me through the day. Amen.

So, nothing heavy-handed about sinning or asking forgiveness. While it's trite and saccharine, it's hardly likely to inflict much fear IMO.

And you'd have to ask one of them. My own daughter isn't baptised and if she ends up having to go to a Catholic school, with the exception of making the Sacraments, I'll be guided by her as to what level of participation she wants. Same if she was to end up in a Church of Ireland or Muslim school.

Wait. Children across the country are praying that God masturbates continuously and people don't think that's weird? :pac:

endacl

Nick Park wrote: »

Flipping heck, thanks for the spoiler!

What spoiler? Pick a character. They die! George RR Martin is a feckin' psychopath.

:pac:

shruikan2553

robindch wrote: »

Not so far as I'm aware - that's the central message of christianity.

I am skeptical of the power of such a god if his creation are so crap they have to tell him they are crap. Its like writing a line of code for a program to tell me it is sorry for not working.

robindch

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I am skeptical of the power of such a god if his creation are so crap they have to tell him they are crap. Its like writing a line of code for a program to tell me it is sorry for not working.

More like:

*(int*)NULL = 0xff;

brianon

Will respond with a bit more detail later (have to head out now) but she has been consulted.

brianon

So my daughter is 7. I told her I'd be having her sit down during school prayer. She already knows she won't be making a first communion. She knows my thoughts of religion. I've told her she can do the prayers in class if she really wants to but she says she's ok not doing them.

I'll not force atheism on her but I will certainly do my best to offset the stuff she gets from school and inform her that Catholicism isn't the only way.

As regards her first communion. She's been told she won't be making it but we will do something special that they instead. If she said she really wanted to make her communion I'd still not let her. She is too young to be joining an organised religion of any kind.

Those who say sure what harm can it do her. I've certainly heard that argument. I was baptised before I was 1. I tried to discuss it with my parents but they didn't understand me for some reason. By the time I made my communion I just did it cause that's what you do. Same with confirmation. Did it do me any harm ? I think it held me back yes.

Hotblack Desiato

+1 but minus 0.25 for 'I won't be forcing atheism on her'

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with 'forcing atheism on kids' i.e. encouraging kids to believe in evidence rather than supposition and nonsense. I keep quiet on the god question until asked but when I am, I'm clear that it's a story, and she well knows already that many things culturally told to kids are 'just stories' and not necessarily to be regarded as truth. She's 6 and clearly doesn't believe in Santa based on her own statements but come December there might be a different position taken.. and we'll go along with that, but she'll know that we know that she knows it's only a bit of fun really.

Unfortunately many non-believers in this country who say they will 'not force a belief on their kids' really mean they are happy for their spouse or their kids' school to do so. Cowards.

Gbear

ninja900 wrote: »

+1 but minus 0.25 for 'I won't be forcing atheism on her'

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with 'forcing atheism on kids' i.e. encouraging kids to believe in evidence rather than supposition and nonsense. I keep quiet on the god question until asked but when I am, I'm clear that it's a story, and she well knows already that many things culturally told to kids are 'just stories' and not necessarily to be regarded as truth. She's 6 and clearly doesn't believe in Santa based on her own statements but come December there might be a different position taken.. and we'll go along with that, but she'll know that we know that she knows it's only a bit of fun really.

Unfortunately many non-believers in this country who say they will 'not force a belief on their kids' really mean they are happy for their spouse or their kids' school to do so. Cowards.

I suppose there's the question (and it's probably a case of false-equivalency) of enforcing your child not to believe something by fiat, regardless of the specifics.

You should feel entirely comfortable telling your child about skepticism, secular humanism, the scientific method, logic, rationality or whatever else and even tell them it's a superiour process to just doing what you're told, but obviously the ideal is to teach them how to think and let them discover what the "facts" are by themselves.

Obviously, people take short cuts with that all the time - better to tell your child not to pour hot water on their face than let them figure it out by trial and error. Still, it doesn't hurt to try and stick to it.

Cabaal

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I think it would be a little bit difficult for a child to opt out in these circumstances, when all of their friends have such blind faith. If I found it weird as a "teacher" looking at them, it would be even weirder as a child, if your teacher and all your friends believed in this faith but your family didn't.

This is why I won't be sending my son to a religious school, but it's annoying that it's the exception rather than the rule in this country.

Thing is, its not blind faith....its blind acceptance.

Its like telling a child about Santa, they simply accept it as true until it is later disproved form them later in life when the presents from Santa stop.

Funny thing is they never see any gifts from sky fairy and yet they go on to blindly accept that story.

brianon

ninja900 wrote: »

I keep quiet on the god question until asked but when I am, I'm clear that it's a story, and she well knows already that many things culturally told to kids are 'just stories' and not necessarily to be regarded as truth.

This is essentially what I do. I tell her about the many different beliefs arouind the world and through the ages and I've told her about the big bang and evolution (she also has books on the big bang, religions of the world, evolution).

I explain to her that the school she attends is a Catholic school and that is why she is told certain stories.

Do I get the .25 back ?

robindch

brianon wrote: »

As regards her first communion. She's been told she won't be making it but we will do something special that they instead.

Snowflake said herself that she wouldn't be doing the communion thing and I told her that this was fine with me.

I don't expect there to be much palaver over the communion at her ET school, but if some kids get a little bit out of hand, then I'll arrive into the class the day before, dressed up as Mickey Mouse, to take her away on a magic Ryanair carpet to Disney!

looksee

I got married over 40 years ago and as a non-catholic was required to sign a document saying my children would be brought up as Catholics. I was 22 at the time and was mildly religious in a not-really-thinking-about-it way, it was important to my husband so I went along with it. (That was the time that it was, just after getting married I went to close my bank account and merge it with my husbands as a joint account, entirely my own choice, and the teller asked me did I have my husband's permission to close my account!)

Anyway going back to the religious stuff, I did as I had promised, supported the children's Catholic upbringing, helped them learn their catechism, prepared them for Communion etc. Didn't speak against their religion, but didn't pretend I believed it if asked. Husband took them to Mass and said nightly prayers with them. By the time they were all in their mid teens they stopped going to mass and had dropped the whole religion business - their choice.

eblistic

I'd be interested to know what arrangements for religion class other people had with Catholic schools, if they had to use one? Sorry, not quite on the topic of prayer.

Our first child is starting school in September. All local schools are Catholic, so we'd little choice but to send her to one. In asking what accommodations they could make, I was told that she'd have to attend religion class, for practical reasons, but needn't participate. Also, told curriculum mostly general morality lessons, so we needn't worry. While they seem well intentioned, I'm dreading the whole thing.

Just want two things for her: 1. to be spared any indoctrination, 2. not to be made feel different or unusual because of something her parents don't subscribe to. For reason #2, I haven't been inclined to make too much of a fuss so far.

Czarcasm

eblistic wrote: »

Just want two things for her: 1. to be spared any indoctrination, 2. not to be made feel different or unusual because of something her parents don't subscribe to. For reason #2, I haven't been inclined to make too much of a fuss so far.

Unfortunately eblistic, because of reason number 1, your daughter will be made to feel conscious of reason number 2. That's where you as her parent will have to support your daughter so that she understands why she is treated differently from the other children in the class.

It may come to naught either because depending on the demographics of the school students, while it may be a Catholic ethos school, there may also be quite a diverse mix of students from multi-denominational and multi-cultural backgrounds, so your daughter may not feel like the odd-one-out at all!

lazygal

The Alive O curriculum is not as benign as some schools like to make out. Mixed in with the general messages about being nice to each other are Catholic prayers and indoctrination.

dharma200

I am going through this myself... Two daughters six and seven. No non catholic school withing 30km.
Alive o is definately not benign. I have gone through alive o with my now teenage son, we would go through it at the start of the year having a good laugh at some of the stories. The school says the same thing to me, it only teaches good conduct morals ect.
My partner reckons pulling girls from all religious stuff ie prayers will negatively impact them as they will be seen as different. I want. Them to be seen as different and reckon the whole fear thing is what keeps a huge percentage of parents from acting and forcing schools towards secularism. I have decided for next year I will not be purchasing alive o and will be meeting with head teacher and withdrawing them from praying etc.
The whole... It did me no harm, is exactly what keeps up the fictitious numbers in the church, keeps schools from demanding their own removal from the church.

Czarcasm

lazygal wrote: »

The Alive O curriculum is not as benign as some schools like to make out. Mixed in with the general messages about being nice to each other are Catholic prayers and indoctrination.

The Alive-O curriculum has been under review for a number of years now and is due to be changed soon to give children a more informed education regarding other faiths besides just Catholicism -


Catholic pupils to study other religions under radical new plan

lazygal

Under that plan the younger classes learn less about other faiths than older classes. Very obvious reasons for more purist Catholic indoctrination at the younger ages. And Alive O still comes from the Catholic church. I wouldn't consider it's text books appropriate for my children.

Cabaal

Czarcasm wrote: »

The Alive-O curriculum has been under review for a number of years now and is due to be changed soon to give children a more informed education regarding other faiths besides just Catholicism -


Catholic pupils to study other religions under radical new plan

Don't expect miracles...for two important reasons.
1. miracles don't exist
2. The catholic church produce the book,

Ask yourself this, how can the catholic church produce a impartial book about all faiths when they view their faith as the one true faith. They can't...end of.

The objective is

"to prepare young children for living in contact with other Christians and people of other religions, affirming their Catholic identity, while respecting the faiths of others"

So basically this sums up to....catholic faith is the real one and make sure to love god/jesus, just be nice to all the people that believe in fake gods

Czarcasm

Cabaal wrote: »

Don't expect miracles...for two important reasons.
1. miracles don't exist
2. The catholic church produce the book,

Ask yourself this, how can the catholic church produce a impartial book about all faiths when they view their faith as the one true faith. They can't...end of.

Well it'd surely be a miracle if Catholic ethos schools done a sudden U-turn and became secular schools overnight! Even ET schools aren't strictly speaking secular in their ethos as they teach children about the beliefs of many different religions, and I think that's where this new curriculum is going, while still maintaining the Catholic ethos in the school.

It may be only a small step, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

redfacedbear

There is also the issue that teachers are supposed to weave god into all aspects of the teaching day so even by opting out of prayer and religion class your child is not necessarily going to avoid indoctrination in a religious run school.

A Link to a paper on teachdontpreach.ie about this

Cabaal

redfacedbear wrote: »

There is also the issue that teachers are supposed to weave god into all aspects of the teaching day so even by opting out of prayer and religion class your child is not necessarily going to avoid indoctrination in a religious run school.

A Link to a paper on teachdontpreach.ie about this

True, it won't avoid everything....due to the way they try include religion in everything from art, music, english, maths, science/nature (god made this!)

But it will avoid the bulk of the indoctrination, at the very least I'm assuming its less home work (does Alive-O mean you have homework...I'm not 100% sure).

brianon

sigh. This is so frustrating. How receptive are (catholic) schools to parents requesting their children not participate in religious education in school at all?

lazygal

brianon wrote: »

sigh. This is so frustrating. How receptive are (catholic) schools to parents requesting their children not participate in religious education in school at all?

Depends on the school, principal and, most importantly, the teacher. You can get an awkward teacher who pays lip service to parents wishes to opt out but in practice does SFA to accommodate it or makes it difficult for the child. Or the principal might say there's no resources for supervision and isn't Alive O lovely and all about nature and making friends and being nice and even Abdul the Muslim boy does it and it's not a bit of bother.

Cabaal

brianon wrote: »

sigh. This is so frustrating. How receptive are (catholic) schools to parents requesting their children not participate in religious education in school at all?

Depends totally on the school, there is no concrete answer sadly.

Some can be very accepting of it and accommodating.

on the other extreme others tell parents that they have no way of looking after the child during religion classes and the parent will need to make their own accommodations.

Of course that's even "if" the parent can get their kid into school.
Even a local primary school to me has the following requirements for entry

The criteria for deciding on acceptance or refusal of applications, where the number of applicants

exceeds the number of places available, is set down below in an open, transparent and fair manner.

1. The applicant lives in the parish

2. The applicant has a brother/sister in the school

3. The applicant had a brother/sister in the school

4. The applicant is the son/daughter of a staff member

5. The applicant’s parent or guardian is a past pupil

6. The applicant is Catholic

I can understand the living locally being given priority, i can even understand the sibling in school. But having to be catholic for a state funded school is unreal in this day and age.

How any such school can then claim they teach acceptance of people, are against bullying etc but then see no problem excluding based on faith is beyond me.

Blowfish

eblistic wrote: »

Our first child is starting school in September. All local schools are Catholic, so we'd little choice but to send her to one. In asking what accommodations they could make, I was told that she'd have to attend religion class, for practical reasons, but needn't participate.

As someone who was that kid in the religious class but not participating, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Depending on the kid, let them bring something with them to school that they enjoy doing so they can do that during the time. For me when I was very young it usually would have been a small (quiet) toy, say a small bit of lego or the like. When a bit older it would have been bringing a sci-fi or fantasy book to read.

eblistic wrote: »

Just want two things for her: 1. to be spared any indoctrination, 2. not to be made feel different or unusual because of something her parents don't subscribe to.

For 1, if they've something else to do, it's going to be infinitely more interesting than listening to their teacher. In fact I remember one specific instance where I was so engrossed in reading The Lord Of The Rings, that I ended up not noticing that the religion class had ended and we had moved onto something else until 30 minutes later.

For 2, there will be a bit of this around Communion and Confirmation time, so doing something else with them would probably help a bit. For the rest of the year though, I found that as kids being kids don't particularly enjoy school, they thought I was lucky in that a couple of times a week I could (within reason) do what I wanted while they were stuck learning about boring stuff.

kylith

Blowfish wrote: »

For 2, there will be a bit of this around Communion and Confirmation time, so doing something else with them would probably help a bit. For the rest of the year though, I found that as kids being kids don't particularly enjoy school, they thought I was lucky in that a couple of times a week I could (within reason) do what I wanted while they were stuck learning about boring stuff.

In primary school we used to be very jealous of the Buddhist girls because they got to do colouring-in while we were stuck learning prayers.

Malari

kylith wrote: »

In primary school we used to be very jealous of the Buddhist girls because they got to do colouring-in while we were stuck learning prayers.

I think at primary school age being different is almost a draw to the other kids.

dharma200

ok so had a chat with the eldest girl there (7).. definitely not per se asking her permission to withdraw her lol.. however informing her. I asked her why she thinks i might not want to have her do the alive o etc. she said 'because you don't believe in god'... I said that yes, i don't believe in god, and she will be a lot older before she can come to either the same answer or a different one, she agreed... I asked her about prayers in school, she said she did morning prayers and afternoon prayers, couldn't remember what they entail, but also mentioned her teacher forgets to say them a lot!
I told her from next year we are going to stop with th sprayers in school because we are not catholic and she will have to be a lot older before she is able to decide wether to be religious or not. I then talked to her about all the religions she knew of, and that there were many other elisions, so it didn't seem fair to only have one religion is school so maybe we shouldn't have any, and she agreed it wasn't fair.
I suppose in some way a consultation, although I want her to understand the reasons why. She has always said because you don't believe in god... however her dad is a lapsed catholic who doesn't seem to know , my own mother who has a lot of contact has a weird hybrid of god, allah and nature lol..
Glad I had the chat. The younger daughter i have yet to chat with, will leave that till just before new term starts.
My son who is going into junior cert is constantly on his toes in school, he has pulled them up on the sex ed curriculum, he has corrected teachers when referring to his aunts husband, my son informed them it was his aunts girlfriend.. he is pro choice, and pulled the school up when one of the teachers stated 'all that was wrong with the world was those muslims' (yep)
I think this starts very young, and needs to start from those of us who are non believers. We need to commit to this stance and actively work towards removing our children from potentially harmful and insidious teaching. A legal obligation to send our children to school should not entail any type of religious instruction, yes, teaching about religion as historical or as part of society but never instruction. I am glad I have made my decision.
Good luck with all your own decisions...
It is not our fault access to secular or integrated education is so very limited, it is with sate and religious collusion that many of us cannot access a secular or non religious education for our children. x

vitani

dharma200 wrote: »

My son who is going into junior cert is constantly on his toes in school, he has pulled them up on the sex ed curriculum, he has corrected teachers when referring to his aunts husband, my son informed them it was his aunts girlfriend.. he is pro choice, and pulled the school up when one of the teachers stated 'all that was wrong with the world was those muslims' (yep)

Your son sounds awesome. You've done a great job with him.

dharma200

vitani wrote: »

Your son sounds awesome. You've done a great job with him.

Thanks.. it all started with those pesky alive o books... every year from first to 6th I went through them, through the whole book, not picking holes as such, but having a good old laugh..
especially at all the thank god for this and that and the other... I reminded him thanking those around him, such as his parents, his gay aunt lol and those who don't judge one another on religious grounds were those we should thank.. going through the realities of life on THIS earth, not some imaginary place that none of us know exists.
He is pretty cool... not sure his school thinks so , but hey ho....

Cabaal

dharma200 wrote: »

ok so had a chat with the eldest girl there (7).. definitely not per se asking her permission to withdraw her lol.. however informing her.......<SNIP>

I think this was no harm, it shows respect and it also shows why you are taking such action.

Sounds like she has an idea of whats going on and its good you outlined that she can make her own decision when it comes to faith as time goes on.

If only Catholics would do the same :pac:

My son who is going into junior cert is constantly on his toes in school, he has pulled them up on the sex ed curriculum, he has corrected teachers when referring to his aunts husband, my son informed them it was his aunts girlfriend.. he is pro choice, and pulled the school up when one of the teachers stated 'all that was wrong with the world was those muslims' (yep)

Oh dear!
Bet a few teachers consider your son a trouble maker when he corrects them

Fair fecks to him though, just because a teacher is talking to a bunch of under 18 year olds doesn't give them the right to to spout hate speech about others and think they can get away with it.